Hot/"ramadan" Answer

ayman

Peace everyone,

The scorching full-moon, which is the first full-moon after the summer solstice, will occur on the night of July 3rd, 2012. So fasting will begin on July 4th and last for 10 days until July 13th.

Peace and best wishes,

Ayman

hope4

Peace everyone,

The scorching full-moon, which is the first full-moon after the summer solstice, will occur on the night of July 3rd, 2012. So fasting will begin on July 4th and last for 10 days until July 13th.

Peace and best wishes,

Ayman

Selam Ayman

Will this be the case for the northern hemisphere?

Peace

truthseeker171

Concerning the duration and timing of the fast following threads can be useful to read

duration http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600410.0

a fasting-period of three days - this year at 2th, 3th and 4th of July, might be most probable according to the literal reading of relevant verses, especially verse 2185

timing http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600827.0

the fasting is connected to the remembrance of the arrival of the Koran according to verse 2185, this is at the same time for the believers living on the northern and southern hemisphere, the -shahr ramadan- where the Koran arrived - in Arabia.

salaam,
Truthseeker

Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.

JKRethland

Way to confusing...Ill stick to Ramadan beginning on the fullmoon after summer solstice(July 3rd,2012) and fasting 30 days since from one fullmoon to the next is roughly 30 days. and The night of destiny ("laylat al-qadr&quot,in the night of the full-moon of scorching heat which would be the 1st day/night of ramadan.
Some will argue that 2185 "let him abstain it" means the first day of the fullmoon,some will say its the whole 10 day period, and some will say the whole period of 30 days. This is my way of keeping it until I learn Ancient Arabic so I can read it myself, or until Allah shows me different. Peace.

good_logic

Peace all.

" Follow what is revealed to you from your Lord. Do not follow other idols beside HIM."

Whatever your understanding so far from reading/studying the Koran do it, and trust in your Creator to make things clear to you , as you progress through HIS trial.

Remember you are submitting and relying on your Lord Alone. Others , whether from this site and whatever they claim, are giving their views.
Keep checking with GOD Alone.
Peace.

JKRethland

good logic, good logic bravo

truthseeker171

Salaam JKRethland

It is a good approach to respect each others reading of the book, but may be the subject of the communal fast should not be confusing at all.

2278 ... It is He Who has elected you to carry the message and has placed no hardship in religion, the Creed of your father Abraham ...

A fasting of 30 or 31 days during the hottest period of the year - I do not think this is compatible with verse 2278.
May be rich people who do not have to work hard during the daytime and have airco could fast without too much hardship a longer period of time, this is not so for the not so rich people.

2184 a limited number -ma'doodatin- of days ...

For the people who missed one or more days, they should fast other days and fulfill the count - a count until three is a count.
The central word is -ma'doodatin-, the duration of the fast and of the full moon.
The Koran is perfect and clear and gives the meaning of this word.

2203 And remember Allah during numbered -ma'doodatin- days. Then whoever hastens in two days - there is no sin upon him; and whoever delays - there is no sin upon him...

From this verse we can learn that -ma'doodatin- is as a standard the number three.

324 That is because they say, "Never will the Fire touch us except for numbered -ma'doodatin- days," and they were deluded in their religion by what they were inventing.

This verse may relate to a possible mockery concerning the christian belief that the prophet Isa entered hell for a period of three days,

I can hardly imagine that one would say that one would accept to stay in the fire for a period of more than a few days - I do not think 30 or 31 is relevant here.

Anyway I wish you and other readers a blessed fasting period.

Salaam,
Truthseeker

Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.

truthseeker171

Concerning the duration and timing of the fast following threads can be useful to read

duration http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600410.0

a fasting-period of three days - this year at 2th, 3th and 4th of July, might be most probable according to the literal reading of relevant verses, especially verse 2185

correction

a fasting-period of three days - this year at 3th, 4th and 5th of July, might be most probable according to the literal reading of relevant verses, especially verse 2185.
These three days have a moon that is at least 98.5 percent visible.

Salaam,
Truthseeker

Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.

mmkhan

Salaam TruthSeeker171,

We fasted in May 2012 on 5th, 6th and 7th because of the full moon on those three days during the hottest month D This was our second year that we fast three days in hottest month as per Allah's guidance. handshake

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

truthseeker171

We fasted in May 2012 on 5th, 6th and 7th because of the full moon on those three days during the hottest month This was our second year that we fast three days in hottest month as per Allah's guidance.

Salaam Mmkhan

As far as I know the hottest month on the Northern Hemisphere is in general

continental climate - July, because of the summersolstice
maritime climate - August, because of the gradual warming of the sea during summer

of course there can be local differences.

But these differences over the world seem not to be relevant for the communal fast because of following

According to verse 2185, the fasting is linked to the arrival of the Quran, the fasting can be a celebration for the Guidance that has been received.

2185 The -shahr- (full moon) of Ramadan, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, those of you who witness the -shahr- (full moon) shall fast therein. Whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God because He has guided you, that you may be thankful.

This is for me the main reason that all believers over the world can abstain at the same days all over the world - namely the full moon when the Quran has arrived, most probably that was the -scorching moon- in Arabia.
In Arabia the most reddish full moon, during the most hot period, is the first one after 21th of June, this year 3th,4th and 5th of July.

Salaam,
Truthseeker

Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.

JKRethland

Salaams truthseeker, and thanks for the info. Three days sounds better to me, but, I still see it being a whole month+10 days and I believe Isa and Musa fasted 40 days, but inshaAllah, if I am wrong may Allah guide me to the right decision.

The Full moon is on July 3 at 025154 pm Eastern Time(USA), which means the actual siting want be till Tuesday evening/night(night of destiny/power?), making Wednesday the 4th the first daylight period. Three day periods would be 4th,5th,& 6th going by that.
http//www.fullmoon.info/en/fullmoon-calendar.html

July & August are the hottest months where I live. sun

herbman

Salaams truthseeker, and thanks for the info. Three days sounds better to me, but, I still see it being a whole month+10 days and I believe Isa and Musa fasted 40 days, but inshaAllah, if I am wrong may Allah guide me to the right decision.

The Full moon is on July 3 at 025154 pm Eastern Time(USA), which means the actual siting want be till Tuesday evening/night(night of destiny/power?), making Wednesday the 4th the first daylight period. Three day periods would be 4th,5th,& 6th going by that.
http//www.fullmoon.info/en/fullmoon-calendar.html

July & August are the hottest months where I live. sun

Salam, Peace,

any quranic support for the "I still see it being a whole month+10 days and I believe Isa and Musa fasted 40 days,"?

thanks

truthseeker171

Salaam JKRethland

According to the Bible Moses, Elijah and Jesus fasted for 40 days and nights, these where special people with special assignments.
Nowhere these ways of fasting are prescribed in the Bible for the ordinary believers.

The Jewish people have only an obligatory fast of 24 hours - yaum kipoor-, Christians actually have no obligatory fast prescribed in the Bible.

2278 ... It is He Who has elected you to carry the message and has placed no hardship in religion, the Creed of your father Abraham ...

Seen with the naked eye, the full moon has a duration of three days, with a visibility of at least 98,5 percent.
So one can witness the full moon this year (here in Western-Europe) at the evening of 2th of July, then the night of the fast begins (2187) to prepare for the fast, the actual fasting can be then at 3th,4th and 5th of July.

If you would fast the 6th of July - then the moon is not full anymore when seen with the naked eye - it has about only 95 percent visibility, then you would go across the time-frame as given in verse 2185 - to fast the duration of the -scorching full moon- itself, not any moment longer.

Salaam,
Truthseeker

Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.

JKRethland

Salam, Peace,

any quranic support for the "I still see it being a whole month+10 days and I believe Isa and Musa fasted 40 days,"?

thanks

Peace,

7142 is where I was getting the "whole month+10 days" for Musa. Yeah I see its not exactly referring to ramadan. I may have to adjust my view or at least not use this surah in reference to ramadan. But there is 29/30 days between one full moon and another. Hmmm 3 days or 29? May Allah rightly guide us.

As for Isa , it mentions he fasted 40 days in the Gospels. I mentioned it as an example. Just like some use the OT to show that David prayed 3 times a day, Evening, and morning, and at noon Psalm 5517-18.

JKRethland

Salaam JKRethland

According to the Bible Moses, Elijah and Jesus fasted for 40 days and nights, these where special people with special assignments.
Nowhere these ways of fasting are prescribed in the Bible for the ordinary believers.

The Jewish people have only an obligatory fast of 24 hours - yaum kipoor-, Christians actually have no obligatory fast prescribed in the Bible.

2278 ... It is He Who has elected you to carry the message and has placed no hardship in religion, the Creed of your father Abraham ...

Seen with the naked eye, the full moon has a duration of three days, with a visibility of at least 98,5 percent.
So one can witness the full moon this year (here in Western-Europe) at the evening of 2th of July, then the night of the fast begins (2187) to prepare for the fast, the actual fasting can be then at 3th,4th and 5th of July.

If you would fast the 6th of July - then the moon is not full anymore when seen with the naked eye - it has about only 95 percent visibility, then you would go across the time-frame as given in verse 2185 - to fast the duration of the -scorching full moon- itself, not any moment longer.

Salaam,
Truthseeker

Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.

The Full moon here in Central time zone USA is on July 3rd at 015154 pm , which means the actual siting want be till Tuesday evening/night(night of destiny/power?), making Wednesday the 4th the first daylight period to fast. Three day periods here would be 4th,5th,& 6th.The moon want be full here on the 2nd, just the nights of 3rd,4th,& 5th. And cant fast the 3rd as the fullmoon isnt until almost 2 pm in the afternoon.

truthseeker171

The Full moon here in Central time zone USA is on July 3rd at 015154 pm , which means the actual siting want be till Tuesday evening/night(night of destiny/power?), making Wednesday the 4th the first daylight period to fast. Three day periods here would be 4th,5th,& 6th.The moon want be full here on the 2nd, just the nights of 3rd,4th,& 5th. And cant fast the 3rd as the fullmoon isnt until almost 2 pm in the afternoon.

Seen with the naked eye, the full moon has a duration of three days, with a visibility of at least 98,5 percent. Probably also near your place at the evening of 2th July the moon can be witnessed as full - with the naked eye. So you could fast the 3th,4th and 5th of July.
The -scientific full moon- lasts only a few minutes - but with the naked eye it can be witnessed three days, the difference between 98.5 and 99.9 is hardly noticeable. Actually the real scientific full moon would be a lunar eclipse - so this means that the moon is never exactly seen as full.
The 6th of July according to the tables, the moon will be shrunk to about 95 percent visibility and is not full anymore.

Salaam,
Truthseeker

Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.

JKRethland

Seen with the naked eye, the full moon has a duration of three days, with a visibility of at least 98,5 percent. Probably also near your place at the evening of 2th July the moon can be witnessed as full - with the naked eye. So you could fast the 3th,4th and 5th of July.
The -scientific full moon- lasts only a few minutes - but with the naked eye it can be witnessed three days, the difference between 98.5 and 99.9 is hardly noticeable. Actually the real scientific full moon would be a lunar eclipse - so this means that the moon is never exactly seen as full.
The 6th of July according to the tables, the moon will be shrunk to about 95 percent visibility and is not full anymore.

Salaam,
Truthseeker

Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.

After lookin at this link http//www.farmersalmanac.com/calendar/moon-phases/ I see what your talking about, tonight it will be 98 % tomorrow 100% and Wednesday it will be 98%.

So the fast shouldnt actually start on the actual full moon but what it appears to be.

truthseeker171

After lookin at this link http//www.farmersalmanac.com/calendar/moon-phases/ I see what your talking about, tonight it will be 98 % tomorrow 100% and Wednesday it will be 98%.

So the fast shouldnt actually start on the actual full moon but what it appears to be.

Agreed - one can witness the full moon if it appears to be full with the naked eye. This is a natural way of using the moon as a calendar.
A moon can be never perfectly full as seen from the earth, because only a lunar eclipse would be the perfect balanced full moon.

Salaam,
Truthseeker

Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.

mmkhan

Salaam Mmkhan

As far as I know the hottest month on the Northern Hemisphere is in general

continental climate - July, because of the summersolstice
maritime climate - August, because of the gradual warming of the sea during summer

of course there can be local differences.

But these differences over the world seem not to be relevant for the communal fast because of following

According to verse 2185, the fasting is linked to the arrival of the Quran, the fasting can be a celebration for the Guidance that has been received.

2185 The -shahr- (full moon) of Ramadan, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, those of you who witness the -shahr- (full moon) shall fast therein. Whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God because He has guided you, that you may be thankful.

This is for me the main reason that all believers over the world can abstain at the same days all over the world - namely the full moon when the Quran has arrived, most probably that was the -scorching moon- in Arabia.
In Arabia the most reddish full moon, during the most hot period, is the first one after 21th of June, this year 3th,4th and 5th of July.

Salaam,
Truthseeker

Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.

Salaam brother,

Sorry for late reply.

I think you have to understand means "unzila" in 2185. "Naazil" does not mean send down for the first time as this word is commonly used for rain.

BTW, I have no proof that AlQuraan was send down for the first time in Arabia or to Mohammed.

Hence, fasting has nothing to do with nazala of AlQuraan, inshaAllah.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmkhan

truthseeker171

I think you have to understand means "unzila" in 2185. "Naazil" does not mean send down for the first time as this word is commonly used for rain.

BTW, I have no proof that AlQuraan was send down for the first time in Arabia or to Mohammed.

Hence, fasting has nothing to do with nazala of AlQuraan, inshaAllah.

Salaam brother

2185 The -shahr- (full moon) of Ramadan, in which the Quran was sent down/revealed as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, those of you who witness the -shahr- (full moon) shall fast therein. Whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God because He has guided you, that you may be thankful.

In general the word -unzila- is translated as -sent down- or -revealed-.
Several verses of the Koran mention that water is sent down, for instance in the form of rain.
That does not contradict the reading of verse 2185 as was suggested.

122 We have sent it down an Arabic Quran/recitation, perhaps you will reason.

It is true - we do not have 100 percent evidence that the actual sending down on the person that received the Koran happened in Arabia at that moment.
Though there is enough circumstantial evidence found in the Koran to assume that Mohammad was in an arid area on the Northern Hemisphere. I do not have any evidence that shows otherwise. Hence the first full moon after the summersolstice of the Northern Hemisphere seems to be the right one.
There is no indication that Mohammed lived in a maritime west-coast climate, that is one of the rare climates that has August as the warmest period of the year.

Salaam,
Truthseeker

Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.