Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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peace TGO, all,
I read the original article and this entire thread a while ago and gave my thoughts here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg333873#msg333873
Somewhat of a summary post here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg334061#msg3340612185
singular shahr
"...revealed in it...", "witnessed" and "abstain it"2217
singular shahr
"...fighting in it..."Implication
"in it" refers to the whole month/moon-cycle, whilst the combo of "witnessed al shahr" and "abstain it" refers to the full-moon onwards, which gives us upto 10 days. Could be of no significance but a possible fit.Selam Wakas,
i have read your post and i see you believe the start of ramadan is with a full moon. Also the post is from 2013, did you research it more and do you have an other opinion now or is it the same. We agree that the thread is too long and that is why i started a new thread hoping some people have researched this issue more and that we without many discussion finally find a answer.
Peace
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Peace Bachton..
I also debated this question for a very long time. This question of whether the fasting time begins with the Equinox of September or the Solstice of June. After many months of pondering, I have come to accept the Solstice theory (around June 21-23) as the most viable one. Let me explain to you why, very briefly
The word "Ramadhan" means the time/condition of heat, while "shahr" means "that which is the clear mark or announcement of something". The Arabs used to call the moon "shahr" when it became fat and neared fullness (because it became clear and apparent). Hence, "Shahr Ramadan" is that moon which annouces / makes clear the period of heat.
The reason why September was fitted into the equation is because the term "Ramdhiyy" was given to the rain when it fell upon the hot ground. They assumed that because we have rain mixing with hot earth, this must mean that we are in autumn. But this is only from the point of view of those who live in climates where the rain season happens to start in September. But this is not so in many areas of the world. For example, in Saudi Arabia, the rainy season is during March/April. That marks the end of the cold season there. It never rains there in September. (Those members who live in Saudi Arabia can confirm this). In many parts of Europe and North America, the rainy season is in summer, where the most savage of thunderstorms and torrential rain can be witnessed in June or July, when the earth is hot from the summer. So their Ramdhiyy comes in June.
As you can see, inserting rain into the picture will only serve to confuse matters. Simply stick to the original meaning of the root "Ra-Mim-Dad", which means "HEAT". And what better marker (shahr) we have to announce the begining of the heat season than the full moon of the summer Solstice, when the moon is exceptionally large over the horizon, and assumes a distinct orange hue?
Isn't this better than blindly following Sistani or the Mufti of Saudi Arabia, or Hassan Fadhlallah, and the other so-called "marja3s", who resort to their esoteric "calculations" and often reach contradicting results for no better reason than to spite each other and increase the sectarian division among their followers, to achieve their own worldly ends?
Now since the moon is measured in descending stages ("manazil", until it assumes the appearence of a thin, curved sheath, this means that if you count 10 days from the occurence of the super full moon of the Solstice, you arrive at the "hilal" (crescent), which marks the end of your fast.
So far, I think this is the most logical and convincing formula put forth.
Yes, there is clearly a period of restirction from hunting, which the Quran states is 4 "ashhur". Even if we translate this as 4 months, it would still contradict the mockery being practiced today in Makkah, where they put on their so-called "Ihram Dress" and abstain for a mere 4 or 5 days while they are conducting their rituals. Is this really the "ihram" mentioned in the Quran?
Although I am certain that Ramadhan comes in summer, I am inclined to believe - for now - that the period of Hajj may be the spring months which end immediately before Ramadan. Hence late February until the Solstice of June is the period when hunting game is prohibitted.
Thanks for your input.
TGO check this answer by bro Zuzu
I don't agree with everything but the Summer solstice argument makes sense.
Did you read this yet?Also to Wakas,
what happened to brother Pazuzu all of a sudden he is merely a guest, was he banned or something? -
I think that is an unique and interesting nickname for Pazuzu.
I wonder what he would think about it. Reading it (that nickname) made me laugh a bit. ;D
Peace.
selam sister, can you explain to me, i want to laugh too ( what is zuzu and pazuzu ) peace
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TGO check this answer by bro Zuzu
I don't agree with everything but the Summer solstice argument makes sense.
Did you read this yet?Selam brother, thank you, i have read it now and i do not know what to think about it, i am making a summary in the thread i created and i will work it out from there.
About descending i am not sure, there are more meanings. About shahr i believe it means moon and not month, but even the month of ramadhan you can witness without the moon, that could be done when we start at the hottest month with fasting. What is the hottest month, is it July or June or maybe August?
About restriction the 4 months, if it is about hunting, than we have to have a look when do the animals give birth. The first day of ramadan i saw a new born dead baby bird that was fallen out of her nest, i believe this is guidance from God and that He shows me that ramadan is when the new moon comes and not full moon.
About summer solstice i do not believe that this can be right, because idol worshipers believe in this and Allah would not choose this as a start for a holy month. In the thread i created you can read about summer solstice, there are a few links there.
At this moment i can not conclude when ramadan month begins, but at this moment i think it is with the new moon. I think we should not say that everything that shia and sunni sects believe is a lie, ramadan can be something that is the same since the Quran came down.
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selam sister, can you explain to me, i want to laugh too ( what is zuzu and pazuzu ) peace
I don't really know how to explain it. confused
Perhaps I laughed because that nickname ("bro Zuzu" sounds more intimate/friendly and not daunting.
Have you ever seen his profile picture?
If you know Pazuzu's profile picture and read many of his posts, perhaps you could understand why it made me laugh.
I wish Pazuzu did not deactivate his account, but I don't have right to force him to stay here. My hope is that he lets his account/profile open for people to track (find) his posts easily.
In my view, Pazuzu is a very mysterious person, perhaps no member (or hardly any) on this forum who knows his true identity except himself - but, I suppose he has influenced many people through his works (posts/writings). I will always have respect toward him as a good brother, insha'Allah. Maybe one day he'll be back to (rejoin) this forum.
Peace.
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About restriction the 4 months, if it is about hunting, than we have to have a look when do the animals give birth. The first day of ramadan i saw a new born dead baby bird that was fallen out of her nest, i believe this is guidance from God and that He shows me that ramadan is when the new moon comes and not full moon.
Are you sure Ramadhan is one of the sacred months?
I say this because I reason that the sacred months are a period for hajj and that in this period besides no hunting there is abstinence and fasting when we are in ihram for three days and after returning seven days. That is 10 complete days. This is indicative that fasting is not held continuously throughout the entire period of the sacred months nor for an entire month at that!
So if fasting is not issued for an entire shahr during the months of hajj then Ramadan cannot be one of them.
This is my reasoning brotherAbout summer solstice i do not believe that this can be right, because idol worshipers believe in this and Allah would not choose this as a start for a holy month. In the thread i created you can read about summer solstice, there are a few links there.
Yes I will God willing check it out soon
At this moment i can not conclude when ramadan month begins, but at this moment i think it is with the new moon. I think we should not say that everything that shia and sunni sects believe is a lie, ramadan can be something that is the same since the Quran came down.
By new moon, do you mean crescent moon?
http//www.theragblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/waxing-crescent-moon-purple.jpg
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Are you sure Ramadhan is one of the sacred months?
I say this because I reason that the sacred months are a period for hajj and that in this period besides no hunting there is abstinence and fasting when we are in ihram for three days and after returning seven days. That is 10 complete days. This is indicative that fasting is not held continuously throughout the entire period of the sacred months nor for an entire month at that!
So if fasting is not issued for an entire shahr during the months of hajj then Ramadan cannot be one of them.
This is my reasoning brotherYes I will God willing check it out soon
By new moon, do you mean crescent moon?
http//www.theragblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/waxing-crescent-moon-purple.jpg
yes i mean crescent moon
it all depends how you translate, witness the month-moon and fast in it-fast it. And do not come from behind in your houses but at the front, so clearly thiss tell us to begin the ramadan with crescent moon.
I will research it more, as soon i got more time
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I don't know how much this will contribute to the discussion but here we go. I live in Southern California and June 19th was the first really day above body temperature reaching 107F. The temperature was intense and it was humid. While waiting outside I witnessed the full moon on its rise from the east looking bright and full. Coincidentally the next day as the first day of summer (summer solstice). Temperatures soared to 45 degrees Celsius (113 F).
It is as if the moon brought the heat with itself. I do not know perhaps it is a Sign for me.2185 shahru ramadana The month/full moon of Ramadhaan
Shiin-ha-Ra = make it notable/known/manifest/public/infamous (in a bad or good sense), hire/contract for a month, stay a month, month old, month, new moon, moon, full moon, any evil thing that exposes its author to disgrace, a vice/fault or the like, big & bulky, reputable/eminent.
Ra-Miim-Dad = to be burning, heat, be blasted by the sun. ramaDda - to sharpen (a spear) between stones, roast, pasture on a burning ground, burn. ramDda - scorching heat, burning hot (ground). ramadzan - the ninth month of Islamic calendar, the month of fast.
I basically witnessed the scorching heat of the full moon/month
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Yes I will God willing check it out soon
http//www.theragblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/waxing-crescent-moon-purple.jpgThe Summer Solstice begins when the Sun enters into 0 degrees of the zodiac sign Cancer. The Summer Solstice is one of the four major "Solar Festivals" of the year; the others being the Winter Solstice of December 21st, when the Sun enters into 0 degrees of Capricorn, and the other two being the Spring Equinox when the Sun enters into 0 degrees of Aries, and the Fall Equinox when the Sun enters into 0 degrees of Libra.
All of the Satanic holidays have been corrupted and replaced with false and imposter biblical characters, fictitious legends, and practices completely unrelated to the original holidays. This was done by the Catholic Church for the sole purpose to remove all spirituality and occult knowledge.
That is why i believe summer and winter solstice are not part of Islam.
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The Summer Solstice begins when the Sun enters into 0 degrees of the zodiac sign Cancer. The Summer Solstice is one of the four major "Solar Festivals" of the year; the others being the Winter Solstice of December 21st, when the Sun enters into 0 degrees of Capricorn, and the other two being the Spring Equinox when the Sun enters into 0 degrees of Aries, and the Fall Equinox when the Sun enters into 0 degrees of Libra.
All of the Satanic holidays have been corrupted and replaced with false and imposter biblical characters, fictitious legends, and practices completely unrelated to the original holidays. This was done by the Catholic Church for the sole purpose to remove all spirituality and occult knowledge.
That is why i believe summer and winter solstice are not part of Islam.
Salaam
I hear you but just because the wrongdoers make inventions about these periods and commit evil in it, does it really mean this period itself is evil?
Then does the fact that those void of knowledge go to Mecca to kiss the back stone, throw stones at rock idols of shaytan and drink miracle zam-zam water, make Mecca an evil place?
There are people that commit evil during hajj period and while they are in irham in Mecca wrong themselves, does this equally make the hajj period and Mecca the opposite of what we know them to be?I would hope not. Therefore, perhaps looking at the wrongdoers is not helpful towards assessing what righteousness entails.
It may be after all that these periods of heat upsurge and seasonal change are correlated with Ramadhaan.
After all Allah Has subjected for us the moon and the sun each running for a term appointed that we may keep measurement of time. Perhaps these seasonal changes are more in congruence with the natural way of time-keeping established by God.
Let us keep searching and pondering.Peace
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Salaam
I hear you but just because the wrongdoers make inventions about these periods and commit evil in it, does it really mean this period itself is evil?
Then does the fact that those void of knowledge go to Mecca to kiss the back stone, throw stones at rock idols of shaytan and drink miracle zam-zam water, make Mecca an evil place?
There are people that commit evil during hajj period and while they are in irham in Mecca wrong themselves, does this equally make the hajj period and Mecca the opposite of what we know them to be?I would hope not. Therefore, perhaps looking at the wrongdoers is not helpful towards assessing what righteousness entails.
It may be after all that these periods of heat upsurge and seasonal change are correlated with Ramadhaan.
After all Allah Has subjected for us the moon and the sun each running for a term appointed that we may keep measurement of time. Perhaps these seasonal changes are more in congruence with the natural way of time-keeping established by God.
Let us keep searching and pondering.Peace
Selam,
Do we agree that the night of decree is a peaceful night?
If we do than 21-22 December never can be that night. So in this night satanic sacrifices happen and that is why it can not be the night of decree. I hope now you understand.
Peace
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Allah's Tranquility does not fall upon everyone 4826
Only Allah's Tranquility falls upon the believers even in battle!
The disbelievers still had disdain in their hearts.The same is possible for the Night of Decree, Salamun is a greeting, like that of the Angels to Ibrahim.
Perhaps alluding to Angels greeting the believers as they descend to carry out the commands of Our Lord.
Angels descend upon the BELIEVERS so wrongdoers wronging themselves would not affect this.
We can't say that because people are wronging themselves then this cannot be the period.
People are always wronging themselves.
Also I was referring to Summer Solstice not Winter because of shahr ramadana. -
Angels descend upon the BELIEVERS so wrongdoers wronging themselves would not affect this.
We can't say that because people are wronging themselves then this cannot be the period.
People are always wronging themselves.Yes. I totally agree with this.
I'm not saying mid December is the time we are looking for, but the things that disqualify mid December is NOT that some people, some where, at some point in history, carries/carried out evil/destructive acts. Such acts happen 24/7/365 in this world.
Peace
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I'm not saying mid December is the time we are looking for, but the things that disqualify mid December is NOT that some people, some where, at some point in history, carries/carried out evil/destructive acts. Such acts happen 24/7/365 in this world.
Peace
exactly...
the timing of gay bar is on every single night throughout europe till america... 24/7/365 lol
murder happen after every ten mintutes throghout the year... 24/7/365
lot of other things continue to happen including rape, robbery, theft and many more idol worship 24/7/365...can you figure out one night in which nothing wrong happen throughout the world so that night we can qualify that night of decree.. unfortunately not...
peace
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I'm from India and Eid here has been pushed to 7 July Indian time. However, UAE would be celebrating Eid tomorrow (6 July by Indian time). From what I've read, this is because UAE follows the Shafi interpretation, while the Indian subcontinent goes by the Hanafi interpretation. Both are Sunni belief systems.
I was quite confused and wanted a clearer answer based on the Koran. Google was my friend and I soon stumbled across Ayman's post, and it seems to make a lot of sense to me. I also happened to stumble across this article http//www.cbc.ca/news/technology/summer-solstice-full-moon-1.3640759.
It says,
That's because the summer solstice is technically the moment when the Earth's northern axis of rotation is most tilted toward the sun, and that happens every 365? days, and our calendar is just 365 days (with a leap year every four years) so the alignment between the two events varies, says Paul Mortfield, chair of the David Dunlap Observatory in Richmond Hill, Ont.Another interesting point which seems to confirm Ayman's interpretation is that the word "shahr" (meaning month or full moon) occurs exactly 12 times in the Koran, and the word day occurs exactly 365 days. No numerology here.
From what I've read so far, the meaning of shahr as "full moon" and Ramadan as "full moon of scorching heat/summer solstice" seems to be quite convincing and simple. The full-moon around the summer solstice also happens to be the one that's easiest to witness for anyone than any other moon observation.
Nevertheless, I will add that this is my understanding after a brief research. I do not claim that my understanding is the best or the most accurate. The moment we do this, we create differences. You are my brother/sister in faith, despite our differences in opinion, because we we're all trying to seek God through reason and questioning. Please feel free to add your opinions.
God alone knows best.
Peace.
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exactly...
the timing of gay bar is on every single night throughout europe till america... 24/7/365 lol
murder happen after every ten mintutes throghout the year... 24/7/365
lot of other things continue to happen including rape, robbery, theft and many more idol worship 24/7/365...can you figure out one night in which nothing wrong happen throughout the world so that night we can qualify that night of decree.. unfortunately not...
peace
So you do not believe Allahs words that Muslims are safe in that night, you do not believe that such a night exists? That is what you are telling with your post and i want to explain that Muslims are safe on that night, what others do in gaybars is not of our concern. I believe that the night of decree is a safe night and that Angels protect Muslims, as Allah says. I do not believe that satanic rituals on 21.22 December can be that night, because satanic rituals happen. But maybe it is and that is the reason that Allah sends Angels to protect us, but than we have other satanic rituals, also on 21 december and if we say that this the reason for angels coming down, than they would come also down on this other satanic dates. So i do not think that it has to with the satanic ritauls, or else there would have been 10 or more nights of decree
