Hot/"ramadan" Answer
-
Peace Ayman all
Here are more thoughts that maybe might help...
Is there any chance we can locate "yawmul hajjil akbari"?
that would, it seems, solve the whole problem....cause it seems its the first day of the hajj...
btw how do you translate it?
the day of the great(er/est) hajj or the great(er/est) day of the hajj?
-
Here are some thoughts and possible answers on why theres no a direct answer or solution to the timing of the ahsurul hurumu in the script...
they are maybe crazy however many of the great ideas seemed as crazy at its begginings...so let us at least take them into consideration...we have nothing to lose...
-
The abrogation theory(2106), or the theory of literal abrogation is true,....the verse x(cant remember the exact number) says that the messenger will forget some of the revelation- "sa nuqriuke fa la tansaa, illaa ma shaaallah" "we will surely teach you(or read to you) and you wont forget, except what the god wills"
-
the message of 3/7 is that the meaning of some of the books messages is known only to The God...
-
2252-53 says that theres is some falsehood in this scripture instiled by the devil just like was the case when all of the previous messengers recited The God
s messages, in order that this devils injection might serve as a means of misdirecting for the rejecters...and this falsehood are things mentioned in the book but for which theres no explanation in the rest of the book
-
-
Let me remind you also that the book do not defines, although prescribes the ransom or the prize that is to be payed by killer in the case the murder wasnt intentional or is forgiven by the family/society?
Can this in any way help us to resolve ahurul hurumu which are also prescribed but not( as it seems now) directly defined?
best wishes, Zlatan
-
Peace be upon you all,
Thank you Zlatan and Ayman for keeping this discussion alive. This is the only way we can resolve it.
Zlatan, I do think that the more we learn about astronomy the closer we will get to the answer. The "heavenly bodies" certainly have an effect upon the earth, and we are earth beings. We are certainly being given a timing that will be most beneficial to the PURPOSE of the concept.
If we are talking abouut debating (hajja) , then that appears to me to be a "fiery" time. The summer solstice which last 4 days(not years cry ) keeps coming to mind. With the winter and summer solstices and the two equinoxes, we have 10 days (a recurring theme).
Just wanted to throw some ideas on the fire while it is still burning.
-
Peace Ayman & Kylle
Ayman can you also check for the meaning of maGloomat instead of ma&loomat?
i have checked but can not recall what the meaning was right now...but surely there some interesting notions in that root which maybe can lead to something, if not right now, then after we gather more knowledge and the facts...
btw 2187 and its words "wala tubashiroohunna waantum AAakifoonafee almasajidi" "and do not approach them/make them happy while you are devouted in time/place/institution of obeying"
might be another evidence that ramadan is one of the four ashuru of restriction?
-
Peace Ayman, all
Is there any chance we can locate "yawmul hajjil akbari"?
that would, it seems, solve the whole problem....cause it seems its the first day of the hajj...
In 2185 we read that the reading is "unzila" in shahr of ramadan..tell me ayman, anyone knowledgeable, does this stem of n-z-l allow it to be read/understood as "when the revelation of the reading started/initiated" or its only restricted to "when the reading is (completely) revealed".
Is the whole of the reading revealed only during shahr of ramadan and not in any other time?
If this is the case, and revelation has been restricted only to the time of shahr of ramadan then from 91-3 its quite and almost undeniably clear that ramadan is the first of 4 ashuru of restriction...
best wishes
-
Peace brother Zlatan,
In 2185 we read that the reading is "unzila" in shahr of ramadan..tell me ayman, anyone knowledgeable, does this stem of n-z-l allow it to be read/understood as "when the revelation of the reading started/initiated" or its only restricted to "when the reading is (completely) revealed".
Is the whole of the reading revealed only during shahr of ramadan and not in any other time?
If this is the case, and revelation has been restricted only to the time of shahr of ramadan then from 91-3 its quite and almost undeniably clear that ramadan is the first of 4 ashuru of restriction...
Thank you for an excellent observation. I think that perhaps the answer to your question is in understanding something that I have long wondered about myself. What, if any, is the difference between the terms "anzl" and "nzl"?
I think that perhaps "anzl" denotes the first step of "descending" while "nzl" denotes the second step. So it is a two-step process.
The first step is chapters of the reading being descended/"anzl" (see 241, 986, 2185, 971, etc.). This happens during one night, the night of measure, which is also the burning/scorching full-moon (shahr ramadhan).
The second step is Jibril/"jibril?"/the spirit descending ("nzl") the book on the prophet's heart, an internal process (see 26193, 297). This takes place gradually and not all at once (see 2532).
Please let me know what you think.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
-
Peace ayman, all,
These are some charts made by Muhammad Shahroor for his book "al-kitab wa al-quran". There's an entire chapter about "inzal wa tanzil".
We can discuss about it later, but for now my understanding is as follow
"anzala/inzal" means that the person understands what has been "nouzzila".
"nazzala/tanzil" means that the object is made available to a person in a manner that the person can understand it, but the person has not yet understood the object.
Like in the example with Newton below, things are falling to the ground for millions of years because of the gravity, everybody saw this phenomenon but nobody made the link, until Newton had the revelation (or arrived to the understanding) that there is a law made by the creator, and studied this law to put it in a formula.
http//www.shahrour.org/bookListPages.php?cid=360&pid=359&page=147&bid=1&imagetopurl=drasat1.jpg
http//puadam.jeeran.com/en-1.JPG
http//puadam.jeeran.com/en-2.JPG
http//puadam.jeeran.com/en-3.JPG
--
-
I do no doubt what someone is saying when it comes to modern Arabic. But I know that in CLassical Arabic anzala and nazzala are synonymous forms on the most part. So inzaal and tanzeel can mean the same things but they both definitely have two distinct meanings. One is to 'understand' the other is 'to come down.' As well as 'to couse to understand' and 'to cause to come down'
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace brother Zlatan,
"but for he who cannot find anything, then he must fast for three days during the pilgrimage and seven when he returns" 2196
If one is already fasting how then the expiation could be the fasting during the same time?
There are several possible answers. Which answer is most correct will depend on
- A proper understanding of 2196.
- Possibly, the context of war from 2190-195 must also be taken into account in relationship to the interpretation of what could be construed as the cutting of the hair.
- Also, if one continues reading in 2196, one will see that there is a certain group that is exempted from this rule. However, it is no clear what they should do instead of the prescribed abstinence. One interpretation is that they should abstain the whole ten days during the "7ajj"/debate. So for them, the "7ajj" duration is 10 days.
- A proper understanding of "7ajj" and what it is. Also, if it is one time at any of the "ash-hur ma3lumat" or if it occurs at all the "ash-hur ma3lumat".
Point 4 is actually the most important point. I think that once we properly understand "7ajj" then the picture will become clearer. To start, please let me know what you understand "7ajj" to be.
My understanding is that "7ajj" is a gathering like the annual fair. People come from all over to trade, get benefits, meet other people, and be reminded of The God's favors. We are told in 2227 that Ibrahim invited people "WITH/BI al-7ajj" and not "TO/ILA al-7ajj" to witness benefits. You can only invite ALL people with something beneficial and non-descriminatory. We are told in 2827 that Moses was hired to work for 8 "7ijaj". What was hired to do? Clearly, he was hired to work and tend for sheep (2823-24) and NOT for any religious pilgrimage. What does working and tending sheep has to do with "7ajj"? Naturally, people work and produce so that they can BARGAIN with their products. Bargaining is a kind of debate and it results in witnessing benefits by the seller and the buyer. Thus, "al-7ajj"/the debate is like the annual fair where people work all year and then go to sell and/or buy products. Mid summer - early fall is the natural time for such markets because produce and livestock are plentiful. The large gathering of "7ajj" provides a good opportunity to remind as many people as possible of The God. It is also an opportunity for the advantaged to donate and provide for the disadvantaged.
Thus, I think that the concept of "7ajj" has nothing to do with any religious challenge no more than it has to do with a holy pilgrimage. It is an entirely secular concept.
I think that once we agree on a proper understanding of "7ajj" then we can address the other issues and answer your question together.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
-
Peace be upon you Ayman,
My understanding is that "7ajj" is a gathering like the annual fair. People come from all over to trade, get benefits, meet other people, and be reminded of The God's favors. We are told in 2227 that Ibrahim invited people "WITH/BI al-7ajj" and not "TO/ILA al-7ajj" to witness benefits. You can only invite ALL people with something beneficial and non-descriminatory. We are told in 2827 that Moses was hired to work for 8 "7ijaj". What was hired to do? Clearly, he was hired to work and tend for sheep (2823-24) and NOT for any religious pilgrimage. What does working and tending sheep has to do with "7ajj"? Naturally, people work and produce so that they can BARGAIN with their products. Bargaining is a kind of debate and it results in witnessing benefits by the seller and the buyer. Thus, "al-7ajj"/the debate is like the annual fair where people work all year and then go to sell and/or buy products. Mid summer - early fall is the natural time for such markets because produce and livestock are plentiful. The large gathering of "7ajj" provides a good opportunity to remind as many people as possible of The God. It is also an opportunity for the advantaged to donate and provide for the disatvantaged.
Thus, I think that the concept of "7ajj" has nothing to do with any religious challenge no more than it has to do with a holy pilgrimage. It is an entirely secular concept.
I think that once we agree on a proper understanding of "7ajj" then we can address the other issues and answer your question together.
WoW!!! I need to reflect on that. Very good work indeed Ayman.
-
God blessings on all,
I will put my understanding in points
-
For the compensation of killing someone to be to fast for a number of months does not give that number of months any particular signifance other than that the Koran says that that is the number of months that we are to fast in.
-
Therefore, if someone is prescribed to fast during the Pilgrimage for 10 days that does not make the Pilgrimage and that number of days equal. If the Koran had said that they must fast 2 months would we assume that the pilgrimage should be two months then? That would be jumping to conclusions.
-
The passage where Moses (God bless him) works for a man of Midian for 8 pilgrimages obviously says that the people of Midian engaged in a pilgrimage and used it to refer to time periods. Just as we do. We can say I want you to work for me for 5 easters, or for 5 summers or from 5 winters. Depending on the context we can mean all 5 years or literally for just those 5 seasons.
-
So the people of Midian had a pilgrimage. What is so wrong about that? Just about every people in the world has some sort of pilgrimage that they make annually, weekly, bianually, biweekly, or even haphazardly.
So if we are to fast 10 days during the pilgrimage for whatever reason how does that make the pilgrimage equal to 10 days.
Godbless,
Anwar -
-
Peace be upon you Anwar,
Just about every people in the world has some sort of pilgrimage that they make annually, weekly, bianually, biweekly, or even haphazardly.
What are some examples?
-
God's blessings on you Kyle,
Jews make pilgrimages to the wailing wall, Christians make pilgrimages to
Jerusalem, Catholics still make pilgrimages to Rome, Muslims in West Africa make pilgrimages to the tombs of their saints, other Muslims do the same in Iran and other countries. Buddhist make pilgrimages to the statues and relics and tomb of Buddha. Hindus make pilgrimages to the Ganges river, which they consider holy, etc. etc.
Many peoples throughout the world have made pilgrimages to different things. The ancient greeks made pilgrimages to oracles. If you consider it holy and you go to visit it it is considered a pilgrimage. Some pilgrimages are coordinated and some are not. Some are for certain seasons and others can be done at any time. But they are all pilgrimages.Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace brother Ayman, all...
In regards to the full moon being easier to sight and how we can tell if its 'full', i had some observations...last month i tried to observe if the moon was full and during that time it was high and it was quite difficult to tell if it was full or off by a little...this month a few days back i noticed it very close/closer to the horizon and it was surprisingly easy to tell it was full...
Here is an interesting link regarding this phenomenon
http//facstaff.uww.edu/mccreadd/sectionI.html
Regards,
Nadia