Quran Study
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Feel free to email me with any questions, my email is [email protected] .
The order of revelation of Surahs is based on information from the Hadith which comes from a long time after the Qur'an was in circulation.
The people on this website largely rejects the Hadith, but the idea that the revelations are not in the order they were revealed comes from the Hadith mainly.
In any case, a Non-Muslim website has put them in an order which may be what the Hadith suggests was the order of revelation or based on such clues from the Hadith
http//wikiislam.net/wiki/Chronological_Order_of_the_Qur'an
I hope you take advantage of the opportunity to send me an email, as I may be able to help you with your questions and also tell you about a version of Islam that you may like.
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Peace Fusion.
I do not mind discussing Qoran/other topics/anything you wish to discuss as friends and to learn about each other/life .
Please pm me if you want to.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace
I find it interesting or is it coincidence that in the compilation of the Quran that in the
eleventh surah it mentions ten surahs like these and in the second surah it says "a" surah like this.2/23 And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant, then
produce a Surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you
should be truthful.11/13 Or do they say, "He invented it"? Say, "Then bring ten surahs like it that have
been invented and call upon whomever you can besides Allah , if you should be truthful."Allah is in control of all things
peace
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Peace
I find it interesting or is it coincidence that in the compilation of the Quran that in the
eleventh surah it mentions ten surahs like these and in the second surah it says "a" surah like this.2/23 And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant, then
produce a Surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you
should be truthful.11/13 Or do they say, "He invented it"? Say, "Then bring ten surahs like it that have
been invented and call upon whomever you can besides Allah , if you should be truthful."Allah is in control of all things
peace
yes interesting observation. If your observation is correct , 11/13 should have said eleven surahs like it or we have to delete one sura from quran from the first eleven surahs. May be there is some merit of claims that surah fatiha was not part of early quran.
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yes interesting observation. If your observation is correct , 11/13 should have said eleven surahs like it or we have to delete one sura from quran from the first eleven surahs. May be there is some merit of claims that surah fatiha was not part of early quran.
Thank you faruk for your reply, another angle could be ten surahs preceding the eleventh,
11/13 Or do they say, "He invented it"? Say, "Then bring ten surahs like it that have
been invented and call upon whomever you can besides Allah , if you should be truthful."and first surah preceding second, since the speaker is quoted from the succeeding surahs.
2/23 And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant, then
produce a Surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you
should be truthful.God bless you
peace
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Good afternoon folks,
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I would like to understand why God has sent down messengers mostly from tribes of Israel, while Islamic view is that every nation was sent a messenger to warn them and to pass the message of Tauheed. Yet Quran did not talk about those nations which we believe existed (historical excavation) 5,000 years ago like chinese and indian origin. Quran does talk about not leaving things unexplained yet no mention of those nations and their messengers?
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Why is that certain verses in Quran (you may reply not to take em out of context but still) appear violent in nature? talk about killings and hatred and hell and fire. Why so much mention of punishment like people used to do to the kids in school (old school of thought) in order that pupils may follow discipline. Quran again and again talk about hell fire and precise explanation of the punishment (change of skin to taste the pain in hell fire). Yes I also see verses with glad tidings, however making mankind warned to the right path through punishment is like forcing them to believe in the message on the surface and not actually believing from heart.
However I do understand that there are millions of people who are adopting them same method in their daily lives of reward and punishment (promotions, jails etc) so it makes sense that they be only made understood by the same method of carrot and stick.
Is that is the reason most of the PHDs have mostly been atheists because they cant swallow such reasoning and methods to reach to enlightenment.
For example one of the intellectual told me that he would have prayed regularly if God just ask me to do so, rather then make him pray thru punishment verses like the case of verses where Quran fast forwards and shows conversations between people of hell and paradise and the people were in hell because they did not pray or follow their messenger. The point being the method to make people follow straight path varies in Quran; it is through good things about paradise, bad things of hell and then there are also verses which God talks about from purely logic and sense.
For example. the following verse is enough for me to really believe in that force or God which exists there.
228 How can you reject God when you were dead and He brought you to life? Then He makes you die, then He brings you to life, then to Him you return.
When I look at myself I knew that I was not the one who chose to make meself born, and yet I enjoy and thankful to the almighty to make grant me life and to be able to see , hear etc. So this is enough for me to believe in him.
Perhaps am not able to comprehend different methods of God in making people believe in him.
- There have been mention in the book about Angels, and Jinns. Yet no further explain in detailed. You may find some explanation in the hadiths and so I seen many scriptures talk about angels having wings literally as if they have to come from sky down to earth as if the space between is filled with air that you need wings to travel. I see many similarities in essence in all the scriptures (back to my question 1) which came from one source and has repeated verses until the last Book Quran, yet other nations i come across like hindus and chinese , have absolutely no such things except dragons.
Why do God want humans to believe in things like Angels and jinns etc when those are trivial and not important from the point of view of logical mind because there are many other things that exists in nature and mankind sees which are enough to justify the existence of God.
I believe if one deny angels then he is not a muslim because in Quran it is mentioned that we are supposed to believe in Angels. There is mention of names of certain angels but then there is no further explanation about this creature.
Interestingly the book was also revealed to prophets from one angel ; Gibrael. And In quran it is mentioned that we are not supposed to deny Gibrael.
The point being is that at one end (see verse above), we see logical and convincing verses in Quran which should make a person believe in God and yet when we see other verses; sort of fairy tales or talk about creatures which we never see and then Quran ask us to equate the two concepts as one if we are to be believers, ARE things in my opinion which makes PHDs people not accept the religion as whole. They are more skeptical to question those areas of the 3 famous religions.
Cheers
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Salam Fusion.
I am happy to share my understanding with you. Perhaps you?ll find some of my comments useful.
Good afternoon folks,
- I would like to understand why God has sent down messengers mostly from tribes of Israel, while Islamic view is that every nation was sent a messenger to warn them and to pass the message of Tauheed. Yet Quran did not talk about those nations which we believe existed (historical excavation) 5,000 years ago like chinese and indian origin. Quran does talk about not leaving things unexplained yet no mention of those nations and their messengers?
I find the explanation for this in the below verse
2213 Mankind used to be a single community. Then Allah animated the prophets, as bearer of (glad) tidings and as bearer of warnings, and sent down with them the book in truth to judge among mankind in what they differed in it. And none differed in it except the ones ? they were given it from after clear proofs which came to them - envy among them. Then Allah guided those who had faith regarding what they differed in it from the truth with His authorization. And Allah guides to straight route whomever He wills.
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
Per my humble understanding, different nations were given different books leading them to different paths, which differ in terminology and approach, but all paths with the same ultimate goal? to guide men to uphold their God-gifted sense of right and wrong. The panentheistic approach of Hinduism, the community oriented approach of Confucius, the pro-nature approach of the Jains, the search for nirvana by the Budhdhists all lead to the same ultimate goal.
Amongst various paths, the path of Abraham (Millat-i-Ibrahim) was a distinct path which is characterized by ? placing faith in a ?personified? God as the One who gave us the gift of life; having faith in messengers who speak on behalf of the ?personified? God with help from angels working for God and constantly practice devotion to the ?personified? God through community oriented rituals.
Following the Millat-i-Ibrahim is NOT OBLIGATORY upon mankind, it is just a safe-haven that assures shelter against misguidance and provocation for those who are conscious. But being faithful to one?s obligation to the source of the gift of life is obligatory ? and living a righteous life is the ultimate indicator of who is faithful and who isn?t. That is the ultimate goal. Qur?an only recommends Millat-i-Ibrahim as the preferred approach to reach that goal
4123 - By neither your wishful thinking, nor the wishful thinking of the fraternity of the book ? whoever acts in wickedness will be repaid for it and will neither find any patron nor any helper from beside Allah.
4124 And whoever acts out of righteousness ? among male or female ? and is faithful, then they are the ones to enter the garden and they will not be wronged by crumbs.
4125 And who is on an nicer resolution (ا than the one who submits his face to Allah and he has been nice and follows the religion of Abraham the precise? And Allah took Abraham as a friend.
4126 And whatever (is there) in the heavens and whatever (is there) on the earth (all) belong to Allah and Allah happens to (completely) surround everything.
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
Qur?an being a scripture sent through a Prophet in Millat-i-Ibrahim path, does not discuss the names / approaches / terminology of other paths, but none the less it recognizes that ?Millat-i-Ibrahim? is only one of the several valid paths.
Just look back at 2213 quoted earlier ? ?and sent down with them the book in truth to judge among mankind in what they differed in it?
- Why is that certain verses in Quran (you may reply not to take em out of context but still) appear violent in nature? talk about killings and hatred and hell and fire. Why so much mention of punishment like people used to do to the kids in school (old school of thought) in order that pupils may follow discipline. Quran again and again talk about hell fire and precise explanation of the punishment (change of skin to taste the pain in hell fire). Yes I also see verses with glad tidings, however making mankind warned to the right path through punishment is like forcing them to believe in the message on the surface and not actually believing from heart.
However I do understand that there are millions of people who are adopting them same method in their daily lives of reward and punishment (promotions, jails etc) so it makes sense that they be only made understood by the same method of carrot and stick.
Is that is the reason most of the PHDs have mostly been atheists because they cant swallow such reasoning and methods to reach to enlightenment.
For example one of the intellectual told me that he would have prayed regularly if God just ask me to do so, rather then make him pray thru punishment verses like the case of verses where Quran fast forwards and shows conversations between people of hell and paradise and the people were in hell because they did not pray or follow their messenger. The point being the method to make people follow straight path varies in Quran; it is through good things about paradise, bad things of hell and then there are also verses which God talks about from purely logic and sense.
For example. the following verse is enough for me to really believe in that force or God which exists there.
Qur?an gives unlimited assurance of forgiveness for those who sincerely repent in time. But those who, in spite of all assurances, choose to live a life of evil? it warns them of dire consequences.
However, the specific wordings of suffering in hell are obviously allegorical. Consider the first instance where suffering of fire and the happiness of zannah is mentioned in Qur?an
223 And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our slave then bring over a section from similar thereof and call upon your witness from beside Allah, if you happen to be sincere.
224 But if you don?t, and never will you do, then be conscious of the fire - whose fuel are the men and the stones ? prepared for the ones who repress (faith).
225 And give (glad) tidings to those who have put faith and act righteously that for them (there are) gardens with streams flowing underneath ? every time they are provided from there provision of fruit, they say, ?This is what we were provided from before? ? and with it is brought an allegory; and for them - purified mates in it ? and they will be in there permanently.
226 Indeed Allah is not embarrassed to set forth an example of even a mosquito or something above it ? then as for those who have put faith, so they know that is the truth from their Master, and as for those who repress (faith) so they say ?What does Allah intend by this example?? He deviates many with it and guides many with it, but He does not deviate with it anyone except the willfully disobedient.
(My personal translation, emphasis added, cross checking is recommended.)
The true suffering is the condemnation of Allah, and the angels and mankind altogether ? for those who truly have faith in Allah, the ?condemnation of Allah? itself is the ultimate punishment - as undesirable as burning in fire ? the additional repeated stern wording in Qur'an is not a matter of any more botheration; while for those who do not have that sensibility ? perhaps the stern wording of Qur?an would make them rethink.
The stern wording often gives further insight if you can read the allegory. For example the verse on changing the skin of the wrongdoers to taste the suffering allegorically imply that the wrongdoers will reappear in the world throughout history in different appearance / skins. In fact Allah makes them reappear to taste the suffering. Note I am not talking about resurrection / rebirth ? I am just saying people of same mindset reappear.
- There have been mention in the book about Angels, and Jinns. Yet no further explain in detailed. You may find some explanation in the hadiths and so I seen many scriptures talk about angels having wings literally as if they have to come from sky down to earth as if the space between is filled with air that you need wings to travel. I see many similarities in essence in all the scriptures (back to my question 1) which came from one source and has repeated verses until the last Book Quran, yet other nations i come across like hindus and chinese , have absolutely no such things except dragons.
Why do God want humans to believe in things like Angels and jinns etc when those are trivial and not important from the point of view of logical mind because there are many other things that exists in nature and mankind sees which are enough to justify the existence of God.
I believe if one deny angels then he is not a muslim because in Quran it is mentioned that we are supposed to believe in Angels. There is mention of names of certain angels but then there is no further explanation about this creature.
Interestingly the book was also revealed to prophets from one angel ; Gibrael. And In quran it is mentioned that we are not supposed to deny Gibrael.
The point being is that at one end (see verse above), we see logical and convincing verses in Quran which should make a person believe in God and yet when we see other verses; sort of fairy tales or talk about creatures which we never see and then Quran ask us to equate the two concepts as one if we are to be believers, ARE things in my opinion which makes PHDs people not accept the religion as whole. They are more skeptical to question those areas of the 3 famous religions.
Angels and jinns are entities from unobservable realm (al-ghaib) other than Allah. We have to understand Allah seldom mingles with His creations physically in this life of the world. Given that is the case, to conceptualize a prophet to receive divine inspiration, or humans being destined to be deviated ? we need additional ?beings? in the unobservable realm. Angels and jinns logically fill in that gap.
Please do not misunderstand this as meaning I do not have faith in the angels. This is somewhat like we cannot see sub-atomic particle but still believe in them because their existence is a theoretical necessity.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
- I would like to understand why God has sent down messengers mostly from tribes of Israel, while Islamic view is that every nation was sent a messenger to warn them and to pass the message of Tauheed. Yet Quran did not talk about those nations which we believe existed (historical excavation) 5,000 years ago like chinese and indian origin. Quran does talk about not leaving things unexplained yet no mention of those nations and their messengers?
Quran mentions Dhul-Kifl - he is commonly identified with the Indian Buddha. Koran also mentions Zoroastrianism as a divine religion, therefore the Iranian Zoroaster is our prophet, too. Zoroastrianism is a reaction to Hinduism and the earliest sect of Hinduism is Brahmanism and is a religion that shares the belief in One God - Krishna could very well have been a prophet in the same way Mansur Al-Hallaj was a pious saint. Muhammad was an Arabian prophet. Salih was an Arabian prophet. Hud was an Arabian prophet. Shu'aib was an Arabian prophet. Most Muslims consider Hermes Trismegistus as a prophet too and he was Greek-Egyptian. Dhul-Qarnayn was the Persian Cyrus the Great. While Luqman is not a prophet, he was an Ethiopian. Prophet Job or Ayyub might have been a Roman.
About Chinese religions, God says he has mentioned some prophets to us and others he has not mentioned. Laozi could have been a Prophet of God, the Tao is very similar to the concept of Allah.
There are much more than just Israelite prophets, it's just because since recent times (about eleventh to thirteenth Islamic century), most Muslims became conservative and materialized their faith into it directly competing with Christianity, in order for proselytizing Christians, they made claims like Abraham, Moses and Jesus are all Islamic prophets to call Christians to Islam, since then it was a dogma in Sunni tradition to believe all Prophets where either from Israel or Arabia. Before that, most Muslims regarded Hindus closer to them in faith than Jews and Christians.
Later Sunni traditions made it into a dogma to believe Hinduism is Shirk and therefore, most tafsirs says that the Prophets were either from Israel or Arabia to make Islam more like an Abrahamic religion rather than a universal religion that it is supposed to be.
- Why is that certain verses in Quran (you may reply not to take em out of context but still) appear violent in nature? talk about killings and hatred and hell and fire. Why so much mention of punishment like people used to do to the kids in school (old school of thought) in order that pupils may follow discipline. Quran again and again talk about hell fire and precise explanation of the punishment (change of skin to taste the pain in hell fire). Yes I also see verses with glad tidings, however making mankind warned to the right path through punishment is like forcing them to believe in the message on the surface and not actually believing from heart.
However I do understand that there are millions of people who are adopting them same method in their daily lives of reward and punishment (promotions, jails etc) so it makes sense that they be only made understood by the same method of carrot and stick.
Is that is the reason most of the PHDs have mostly been atheists because they cant swallow such reasoning and methods to reach to enlightenment.
For example one of the intellectual told me that he would have prayed regularly if God just ask me to do so, rather then make him pray thru punishment verses like the case of verses where Quran fast forwards and shows conversations between people of hell and paradise and the people were in hell because they did not pray or follow their messenger. The point being the method to make people follow straight path varies in Quran; it is through good things about paradise, bad things of hell and then there are also verses which God talks about from purely logic and sense.
For example. the following verse is enough for me to really believe in that force or God which exists there.
228 How can you reject God when you were dead and He brought you to life? Then He makes you die, then He brings you to life, then to Him you return.
When I look at myself I knew that I was not the one who chose to make meself born, and yet I enjoy and thankful to the almighty to make grant me life and to be able to see , hear etc. So this is enough for me to believe in him.
Perhaps am not able to comprehend different methods of God in making people believe in him.
I can't comment on this, I feel the same, but I also think it happens with the Tafsir, one must understand it correctly. Quran isn't violent in that there are any verses talking about killing infidels or things like that, but its overall nature just seem to be written by someone with a strong anger, monologuing and complaining about how people don't worship Him, one could ask what about showing us scientific proof for your existence then? I also think we need to remember the Quran isn't written to us, but are revelations to Muhammad. Each verse is regarded to Muhammad specifically.
3. There have been mention in the book about Angels, and Jinns. Yet no further explain in detailed. You may find some explanation in the hadiths and so I seen many scriptures talk about angels having wings literally as if they have to come from sky down to earth as if the space between is filled with air that you need wings to travel. I see many similarities in essence in all the scriptures (back to my question 1) which came from one source and has repeated verses until the last Book Quran, yet other nations i come across like hindus and chinese , have absolutely no such things except dragons.
Why do God want humans to believe in things like Angels and jinns etc when those are trivial and not important from the point of view of logical mind because there are many other things that exists in nature and mankind sees which are enough to justify the existence of God.
I believe if one deny angels then he is not a muslim because in Quran it is mentioned that we are supposed to believe in Angels. There is mention of names of certain angels but then there is no further explanation about this creature.
Interestingly the book was also revealed to prophets from one angel ; Gibrael. And In quran it is mentioned that we are not supposed to deny Gibrael.
The point being is that at one end (see verse above), we see logical and convincing verses in Quran which should make a person believe in God and yet when we see other verses; sort of fairy tales or talk about creatures which we never see and then Quran ask us to equate the two concepts as one if we are to be believers, ARE things in my opinion which makes PHDs people not accept the religion as whole. They are more skeptical to question those areas of the 3 famous religions.
The Jinns are the substance in our mind, they are not real - they exist in our mind, they are feelings, the bad in our souls. Angels, they exist and they are mentioned as further servants of God. I can't say much more about that. - I would like to understand why God has sent down messengers mostly from tribes of Israel, while Islamic view is that every nation was sent a messenger to warn them and to pass the message of Tauheed. Yet Quran did not talk about those nations which we believe existed (historical excavation) 5,000 years ago like chinese and indian origin. Quran does talk about not leaving things unexplained yet no mention of those nations and their messengers?
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Just to say, I do not find the tone in Quran to be aggressive. It is often exaggerations of the words use which often take a more cruel nature than they actually have from the author's intention. It is about the interpretation.
Salaam
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Many thanks to all of you who replied to my questions and I can say that it has comforted me to some extent. The fact that am not arabic and rely on translated Quran, is perhaps the cause of my discomfort.
In essence, God is talking to Muhammad, the prophet and those strong worded statements were actually his displeasure with only those who after been given and made to understood clear signs of his existence, still chose to deny him. And I must say that some where in those verses, the context must have been those people wo were present during the prophet time and yet opted to deny the prophet and God, else I see no point in sending down the verse which mentions abu lahab by name.
So in a way Quranic verses (some of them) do have a clear context with the time it was revealed and with the people living then.To the question of Angles and Jinns, I do understand that God needs a medium to talk to his prophets but then he chose to speak to Moses with no angel in between and then we do not know what kind of talks happened with God and Moses (on the mountains for 40 days) and then between God and Muhammad during Miraj. I think it is not a must that God really needs angel to talk to a human-prophet, or we just cannot create such a rule.. There are people whom God has given wisdom (story of moses and khidir), how did Khidir got enlightenment? But after reading your replies, Angels and Jinns have become a non issue for me, as with the most logical explanation given by Almighty in Quran, yet there are verses which ask believes to believe in Ghaib.
I need to know from an arabic person what does Ghaib means? In the opening chapter of Quran we are asked to believe in Ghaib; does this means things which cant be explained by the human logical mind? like angels?I would like to ask a few new questions here. There are many verses ; at least the translated english meaning, where it appears to me that God is saying that He has put people to TEST (different events mentioned throughout Quran) so He will be able to KNOW who is on the right path (or who believes in HIM or not).
This gives me an indication that God also do not know the future? else why would he say such a saying?
IF GOD is not time bound, then it should be irrelevant for him to have past, present or future and the only explanation is that those verses actually meant for us;humans not to blame the Almighty for punishing us because HE would say that HE puts us to TEST and some have passed and some failed. Again the interpretation may have the fault. Please clarify.Some folks told me that there are certain prophets or wise chosen people from GOD that are still alive today (Khidir is on exception). Is this True? any mentioning of such n example in Quran?
Is it possible that God may grant some one his special wish even though he is not a prophet? For example if I pray to be alive until day of Judgement, is this Pray a valid one or its kufr to ask for such a prayer (believe me the background to this pray is not for the love of Dunya). Yes I do believe that every soul has to taste the death but it does not say , that soul will not be transformed or given life again immediately? else why would GOD ask us not to say Dead to those who DIE in his cause? Strange isnt it? Those who die (qatal) not to be called dead? So how are those kept alive? I do not think it is soul because God told us that those folks are given the food .... again the translation may be my issue.Cheers
