Why does the Quran and Bible describe the Sun as going around the Earth?
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You are only confirming what I stated earlier, you have a predetermined agenda of making those verses look like they were written by a man that lived with a geocentrical concept of this world.
That is a disappointing response.
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There is no point in debating this further with someone who has a predetermined agenda to only take in consideration the geocentric understanding of these verses. Sorry to disappoint but I can't make you see what you are refusing to see. That's not within my power.
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Thanks. I have read that. Can you please explain why the Quran would say the moon follows the sun or that the sun cannot overtake the moon?
oh boy, nope first we see the sun, then we see the moon ooooooorrrrrrrrrr, first we see the
moon then we see the sun, I know that may be complicated, but just go outside and observe.I am here to learn. I respect all religions. I'm here to challenge peoples thinking and hopefully understand/get to the truth.
You cannot learn with a bias. Truth seeking with a bias = denial.
Wow, deep stuff.
I think we have to first acknowledge which reality we live in. We need to understand that reality and accept it. Having an "Eternal Truth" seems pointless in our reality. We need to understand what the truth is in this reality and take it from there. We know we exist, animals exist, gravity exists, stars exist. All these things have laws and physical attributes.
We agree
Sun does go around the Earth but only if you look from our perspective. Imagine you are trying to explain something to people centuries ago, I think this would be the best way. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
PeaceMy Name is Ted listen to Sonny.
God bless you
peace
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There is no point in debating this further with someone who has a predetermined agenda to only take in consideration the geocentric understanding of these verses. Sorry to disappoint but I can't make you see what you are refusing to see. That's not within my power.
Even if I did have a predetermined agenda each point I raised could be answered and shown that my view was incorrect even though I never accept it myself. The goal shouldn't be to get the person to accept something but to show clearly their arguments/views are incorrect. Anyone else reading them could easily come to that conclusion.
You seem to be insecure in your understanding of the Quran.
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Sun does go around the Earth but only if you look from our perspective. Imagine you are trying to explain something to people centuries ago, I think this would be the best way. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
PeaceI understand that. However I don't believe God is pointing out the obvious. I think there's more to it as even the Bible infers the Sun orbits the Earth.
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Re 912
I have not studied it in detail, but I can share some thoughts when I looked into it just now
the Arabic word "talaa" may not mean followed, or perhaps not in the way you take it. For example, when you look at all other occurrences of this word, it seems to suggest "recite". I'm not saying it means "recite" here but this may give us a clue.
recite
- To repeat or utter aloud (something memorized or rehearsed), often before an audience
Here are some classical arabic dictionary (CAD) meanings
Here is what M.Asad says in his Quran translation notes regarding this usage
Muhammad Asad (The Message Of Quran)
912 and the moon as it reflects the sun!Lane lexicon also says similar about this usage
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000350.pdfThus, let me highlight some interesting CAD meanings imitated, rehearsed
When a person recites something, they are relaying a message from a source, e.g. text, screen, mind, often to another Similarly, if the moon were to recite/rehearse the sun, it would be relaying the light from it to another (i.e. us), which is what happens.
Thus, it could be translated as and the moon when (it) imitated/rehearsed/declared it/the sun
or even followed (as in imitated)Interestingly, these 911-etc verses and others are often mentioned as being the oath verses, e.g. by the sun and its brightness, etc and often mention things that are wondrous or powerful or important to the people etc, and a bright full moon is often considered a wondrous sight, even today.
As a side note, this may imply the word al qamar / the moon, does not inherently mean full-moon, i.e. it can be the moon at any stage. Relevant for those discussing the meaning of shahrthe sun/moon not overtaking each other seems self explanatory, i.e. their motion/path/orbit is not tied together in the sense one could overtake the other
It also says the night cannot outstrip the day, which is interesting considering we know they both exist simultaneously on earth, the word here means one cannot get in front of the other, which again, fits.By the way, i dont recommend relying on one translation only. Research the key words used, with CAD and a Quran concordance
e.g.FLK ~orbit
time/place appointed/established
http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(36383)use
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htmThanks. Your explanations/references make sense. However I actually believe in the geocentric model. Crazy as it sounds with all the modern scientific evidence, for me there's something not quite right with it. I personally believe the sun and the stars orbit the earth and this is major sign of God. God made it this way so that we could observe clearly some of his power. Maybe one day someone will be able to prove the geocentric model, however even if they do I doubt it's going to change much on earth.
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I understand that. However I don't believe God is pointing out the obvious. I think there's more to it as even the Bible infers the Sun orbits the Earth.
Do not even try to compare Bible with the Quran. Bible is collection of sayings like hadiths written by men, Quran is something "Else" and there is proof for that.
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Do not even try to compare the Bible with the Quran. Bible is collection of sayings like hadiths written by men, Quran is something "Else" and there is proof for that.
I understand that. However the Quran does say that you need to believe in the Bible as well. I believe the New Testament is not divine and is mostly the opinions of people which contain their accounts of what happened at the time of Jesus. The Old Testament I believe is more substantial as even Jesus studied them and accepted them.
The Quran also tells the People of the Book to look into their own scriptures and use that to judge. If the scriptures were that corrupt God would have told them so but he never does.
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I understand that. However the Quran does say that you need to believe in the Bible as well. I believe the New Testament is not divine and is mostly the opinions of people which contain their accounts of what happened at the time of Jesus. The Old Testament I believe is more substantial as even Jesus studied them and accepted them.
The Quran also tells the People of the Book to look into their own scriptures and use that to judge. If the scriptures were that corrupt God would have told them so but he never does.
If I had a original Book given to Jesus than I would than believe in it. New Testament was not given by Creator to Jesus, it was written by God knows who and when.
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If I had a original Book given to Jesus than I would than believe in it. New Testament was not given by Creator to Jesus, it was written by God knows who and when.
I take it you made a typo and meant to say "Old Testament was not given by Creator to Jesus...".
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I take it you made a typo and meant to say "Old Testament was not given by Creator to Jesus...".
In libraries of old Jerusalem there still can be found early "Bibles" that have been written just decades after "death" of Jesus, those books are way different from anything that christians today teach. Here is the proof https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT8_faUmR1w
I'm sure, "Book" that Quran mentions, is not modern day Bible. -
oh boy, nope first we see the sun, then we see the moon ooooooorrrrrrrrrr, first we see the
moon then we see the sun, if that is too complicated, then just go outside and observe.You cannot learn with a bias. Truth seeking with a bias = denial.
Reason for the quran
Jesus did receive the injeel, so where is it? Bits of the injeel can be found in the New Testament
The Quran says We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers
after him we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus,
Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms. 4163Do you see the names of Mark, Mathew, Luke, John or Paul? They are the authors of most
of the books of the New Testament in the bible. Are they not?The New Testament is the words of Mark, Mathew, Luke, John and Paul, and not the words
of Jesus.16/64 And We have not revealed to you the Book except that you may make clear to them
that about which they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.Ex. to the Jews Yes, Jesus is indeed the messiah, To the Christians No, Jesus is not Allah,
to the christians will you reject Muhammad as the jews rejected Jesus?Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures,
and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations,
and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each
of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made
you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has
given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny-all
of you-then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.God bless you
peace
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I take it you made a typo and meant to say "Old Testament was not given by Creator to Jesus...".
Sorry my mistake. I agree the New Testament was not given to Jesus. Jesus as far as I know was following the Old Testament.
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Sorry my mistake. I agree the New Testament was not given to Jesus. Jesus as far as I know was following the Old Testament.
I still don't understand what you're really here for? What is the point of this thread? I'm just curious?
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Just to interject. The Qur'an doesn't talk about the bible. "Injeel" (literal translation is Good News) is not the bible. I've read a lot of the bible and tbh it just doesn't make sense .... I mean there are some parts that seem fair but some parts are just so far off righteousness and logic and are just filled with paganism and personification of God its insane...
Peace
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Just to interject. The Qur'an doesn't talk about the bible. "Injeel" (literal translation is Good News) is not the bible. I've read a lot of the bible and tbh it just doesn't make sense .... I mean there are some parts that seem fair but some parts are just so far off righteousness and logic and are just filled with paganism and personification of God its insane...
Peace
Yeah that is true, it has some really gross stuff in it.
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Yeah that is true, it has some really gross stuff in it.
For example?
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I still don't understand what you're really here for? What is the point of this thread? I'm just curious?
The purpose of this thread was actually to entertain the possibility that the Quran and Bible are actually saying that the Sun and stars go around the Earth and see if the current science does actually have it wrong. For me, I feel the Quran and Bible are saying that the Sun and stars do go around the Earth and that this is one of the many signs of God, a huge one at that.
I feel God could have easily explained that the earth rotates in a verse or two but he doesn't. So maybe it doesn't, maybe this is the truth. This would make the Quran and Bible correct with the original understanding people had prior to modern science. It's both a huge sign and one that is easily visible and testable by all of mankind.
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The purpose of this thread was actually to entertain the possibility that the Quran and Bible are actually saying that the Sun and stars go around the Earth and see if the current science does actually have it wrong. For me, I feel the Quran and Bible are saying that the Sun and stars do go around the Earth and that this is one of the many signs of God, a huge one at that.
I feel God could have easily explained that the earth rotates in a verse or two but he doesn't. So maybe it doesn't, maybe this is the truth. This would make the Quran and Bible correct with the original understanding people had prior to modern science. It's both a huge sign and one that is easily visible and testable by all of mankind.
Oh I see. Well any such "truth" is still "truth" with a little t. The Qur'an is more interested (it seems to me) in letting people know about the Ultimate Truth which is Allah only, the unchanging eternal.
Modern science had a reason for understanding that the Earth orbits the sun since it explained more things than the Earth centric model, but neither "truth" would be of much importance. Allah could even have made it one way then switched it and can switch anything or make people understand things differently, yet the Qur'an never says anything so specific as to say the sun revolves around the Earth, that was the general understanding of people in the ancient world for the most part it seems.