It seems that true believers are a tiny minority!
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No, not at all. You are airing your view; I do not mind it. I see only the content therein concerning the topic under discussion. Go ahead.
Alright, thanks ) Because I get worried people might think I am targeting them personally or something. The very fact that you people spend so much time trying to learn more of the truth hopefully, makes you guys special already.
Peace.
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It seems to me that those of us who worship God alone are a very tiny minority in the World. What are your thoughts?
Once you start to believe that you're a true believer then you're actually not a true believer..
Once you start to become arrogant and think that you're true and everybody else is false then you're actually not a true believer..
Once you start to think that you're above others then you're actually not a true believer..https//s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8a/23/95/8a2395f69509e4506c602c71be6f6ee9.jpg
That is why 'true believer' is a minority in the world..
Salam / Peace
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Once you start to believe that you're a true believer then you're actually not a true believer..
Once you start to become arrogant and think that you're true and everybody else is false then you're actually not a true believer..
Once you start to think that you're above others then you're actually not a true believer..https//s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8a/23/95/8a2395f69509e4506c602c71be6f6ee9.jpg
That is why 'true believer' is a minority in the world..
Salam / Peace
bravo
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Once you start to believe that you're a true believer then you're actually not a true believer..
Once you start to become arrogant and think that you're true and everybody else is false then you're actually not a true believer..
Once you start to think that you're above others then you're actually not a true believer..https//s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8a/23/95/8a2395f69509e4506c602c71be6f6ee9.jpg
That is why 'true believer' is a minority in the world..
Salam / Peace
Awesome statements bravo
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Salam brother Zulf.
Perhaps it may not even be clear what "religion" means, when you say "One of Satan's (whatever Satan is) biggest successes is indeed the creation of religion."
If I say, my religion is being good and doing good to others - am I helping Satan?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanSalamun Alaikum.
Since brother Zulf has not cared to clarify the meaning of "religion" in the concerned statement, I am feeling obliged to express my disagreement with the statement as it came.
Per my humble understanding "religion" (Arabic Millat) without any further qualification implies "a system of beliefs and practices that a group of people adhere to in order to have successful life as well as afterlife." When defined generically like that it is not possible to accept that creation of such a framework is one of Satan?s biggest success.
Religion provides a framework under which people can take shelter in face of inherently uncertain nature of theological and spiritual understanding. It is just like a house under which people take shelter to get protection from uncertain weather. Now if someone commits a crime inside the house (as people often do) we cannot blame the house ? we have to be critical of the people who committed the crime and misused the house. Blaming the house as one of satan?s biggest success does not help.
So for me creation of ?religion? is no more success of Satan than creation of ?science? or ?politics?. Men created religion for their own benefit and just like every other good things in life it has been corrupted, misused and misunderstood. Instead of religion being a tool to serve men, men have become a tool to serve religion. Perhaps this reversal of understanding is one of Satan's greatest success, not religion itself. Neither is satanic activity a monopoly of the religious people, nor are irreligious people universal benchmark of righteousness. So, lashing against ?religion? itself is incorrect diagnosis of the problem.
And, by the way ? accepting messengers and scriptures (including Qur?an) and at the same time overruling religion would be a bit hypocrisy because no matter how we try to define / understand them ? ?Messengers? and ?holy books? are religious ideas.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salamun Alaikum.
Since brother Zulf has not cared to clarify the meaning of "religion" in the concerned statement, I am feeling obliged to express my disagreement with the statement as it came.
Per my humble understanding "religion" (Arabic Millat) without any further qualification implies "a system of beliefs and practices that a group of people adhere to in order to have successful life as well as afterlife." When defined generically like that it is not possible to accept that creation of such a framework is one of Satan?s biggest success.
Religion provides a framework under which people can take shelter in face of inherently uncertain nature of theological and spiritual understanding. It is just like a house under which people take shelter to get protection from uncertain weather. Now if someone commits a crime inside the house (as people often do) we cannot blame the house ? we have to be critical of the people who committed the crime and misused the house. Blaming the house as one of satan?s biggest success does not help.
So for me creation of ?religion? is no more success of Satan than creation of ?science? or ?politics?. Men created religion for their own benefit and just like every other good things in life it has been corrupted, misused and misunderstood. Instead of religion being a tool to serve men, men have become a tool to serve religion. Perhaps this reversal of understanding is one of Satan's greatest success, not religion itself. Neither is satanic activity a monopoly of the religious people, nor are irreligious people universal benchmark of righteousness. So, lashing against ?religion? itself is incorrect diagnosis of the problem.
And, by the way ? accepting messengers and scriptures (including Qur?an) and at the same time overruling religion would be a bit hypocrisy because no matter how we try to define / understand them ? ?Messengers? and ?holy books? are religious ideas.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanArman, you have some good points, I appreciate them.
By the way if someone rejects the Quran as a religious scripture, would that person still be considered a Muslim? Because you said it is God who has set a moral compass in our being, so following that compass makes one a Muslim. Now if that moral compass rejects the scripture because of issues with it, would he/she still be considered Muslim? And that moral compass is perfectly functioning by the way, it is not broken or the person did not "wait" for a sufficient time to see the "good fruits" of those rejected teachings. So what do you have to say on this?
Peace.
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Freedom,
Too far gone where? You disagree that you should have a spiritual affinity with Allah? You should cease to exist yourself but exist in Allah. This is why Jesus made his statement "I am in the Creator and the Creator is in me". You are contra popular Christian belief not separating Jesus as separate part of a trinity but Jesus is in Allah while he himself does only exist in Allah since he is symbiotic.
Jesus himself made no importance of himself nor claim he was a son of God but that he existed in God and he did the deeds which show affinity too.
Salaam
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Freedom,
Too far gone where? You disagree that you should have a spiritual affinity with Allah? You should cease to exist yourself but exist in Allah. This is why Jesus made his statement "I am in the Creator and the Creator is in me". You are contra popular Christian belief not separating Jesus as separate part of a trinity but Jesus is in Allah while he himself does only exist in Allah since he is symbiotic.
Jesus himself made no importance of himself nor claim he was a son of God but that he existed in God and he did the deeds which show affinity too.
Salaam
What I had said earlier was a joke. I was making a joke based on the earlier statements. No idea what the question about spiritual affinity or me disagreeing with it had to do with my joke but I apologize if it had anything to do with that.
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Once you start to believe that you're a true believer then you're actually not a true believer..
Once you start to become arrogant and think that you're true and everybody else is false then you're actually not a true believer..
Once you start to think that you're above others then you're actually not a true believer..https//s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8a/23/95/8a2395f69509e4506c602c71be6f6ee9.jpg
That is why 'true believer' is a minority in the world..
Salam / Peace
Well in that case, let me make the following statements
I believe I'm a true believer.
I believe I'm true or right and most everybody else is false most of the time.
I believe I'm above others, spiritually, I'm a big bad giant.
Or if you prefer, spiritually obese in the extreme.
Most of you look like ants from up here, non-muslim fire ants. Strong, Stubborn, with a nasty bite,I've actually found the people feigning humility to be some of the most despicable arrogant people I've ever met! Its best to be done with it and get it off your chest by puffing it out in a right proper haughty manner and announcing you think you're right, because you would be quite frankly insane to go around spouting what you yourself think is wrong!
Which is what my joke earlier was about "maybe talking is too far gone too", because for some people, their ability to communicate, is actually their ability to spread corruption, it seems!
If you all had said nothing much, and just let me do the talking, we might all be in a better place right now! (Please note the jokes have not ceased)
So, I won't be one of those who goes around pretending to be humble, basically lying. Each one of us is an arrogant little whippersnapper who thinks we are right and the other people are wrong in some way or else we wouldn't constantly try to correct them!
So come out with it and be real for once in your life and don't stop there! I'd so prefer someone to say to me "I am right, and you are wrong, nah nah, here is why" and then I say "If I could, I'd bind you to my service or condemn you to the abyss!"
I wouldn't worship God if I thought it was wrong to do that, and I believe that people who don't worship God are pretty far astray, just like I think people who do shirk are really disbelievers and don't understand correctly. Am I to go around thinking they may be right? That God is a little mutant creature in chains? I don't deny that somewhere there may be a little mutant creature in chains, but I'd never call that God, nor would I consider the person suggesting that right or better than me, no I'd consider them wrong, and far worse than me, and I'd be grateful that at the moment of my arrogant and proud thinking that I'm not so foolish as they are (knowing full well that God can make me a fool as well, which is the true sort of humbleness, to know that you don't have power against God, not to think every wicked person "might be right" and that you're worse than the wicked people).
So no, I don't just blindly approve of these statements being made, they are each false actually if one thinks about it
Each of you probably does think you are right and true, or else you would be completely crazy to be following what you actually think is wrong and false.
Each of you probably thinks you are better in your understanding and way than the other person, or else you would follow their way (unless its just too difficult seeming but you wish you could).
Feigning Humility is just more sinning on your scales by working deception, who do you think you're deceiving? Not only are you all very poor actors when it comes to pretending you are humble, but God certainly knows all our proud natures (my God at least, maybe not the mutant in chains one though).
I've explained why you each probably believe you're right and others who don't agree are wrong or else you would follow their way and why you try to correct them.
So let me be the first to speak honestly, since many of you shy away from it perhaps
- I believe I am a better and more knowing believer than anyone on this website (all credit to Allah).
- I believe my status can be taken away from me and that I can be made a fool and may appear to be a fool even now (all credit to Allah if such is the case as well).
- If I did not believe I was right, I wouldn't say it to you, and if I believed you were right, I'd follow your way.
- I consider myself far more favored and blessed than anyone who seems to be without understanding and is not allowed to worship God or isn't allowed to prostrate before God or any of that.
- I consider myself a true believer, not out of blind faith, but out of "sure knowledge", and I consider anyone who does not hold the essential views that I espouse (the essential ones) to be astray. I don't waiver or quiver in being unsure or saying "maybe it is this way too? Maybe Allah is a little boy in outer space who is just unceasingly burping due to indigestion"
I know exactly what it is I worship, and I worship nothing else, and I the chief among the proud ones, the one who considers myself a mighty arch-boss (who prays to be the mightiest of arch-bosses under the Supreme Boss) among the bosses of Bossworld "where rightness rules"tm, am proud to press my head into the floor before the Supreme Boss, and to me, that is true humility "Not to think everyone could be right and being unsure in your religion, but to know whose really Boss and know where the arrogance meets its Master, and to the King I surrender! If I could kill it, I would kill it, but I can't, so I grovel instead, like a well groomed dog, before the Master of all Hounds, Lord of All Realities!
I wonder if anyone enjoyed my speech!
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Per my humble understanding "religion" (Arabic Millat) without any further qualification implies "a system of beliefs and practices that a group of people adhere to in order to have successful life as well as afterlife." When defined generically like that it is not possible to accept that creation of such a framework is one of Satan?s biggest success.
Religion provides a framework under which people can take shelter in face of inherently uncertain nature of theological and spiritual understanding. It is just like a house under which people take shelter to get protection from uncertain weather. Now if someone commits a crime inside the house (as people often do) we cannot blame the house ? we have to be critical of the people who committed the crime and misused the house. Blaming the house as one of satan?s biggest success does not help.
Peace Armanaziz excellent analogy except
"Does not help" I fear is an incorrect conclusion. IMHO, blaming the house
would just be plain wrong.Another example would be
Man dresses up in full Arabian attire turban and all, goes into the Masjid curses children,
performs a lewd act then performs salat, is he mutaqqin or have the onlookers been
fooled into thinking he represents religion? In this case is religion wrong or is the fool
I described devoid of religion? In this very forum we have discussed what should we
call ourselves because the "nuts" have now given Muslims a bad name, should we reject
the word Muslim also?God bless
peace
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Peace Armanaziz excellent analogy except
"Does not help" I fear is an incorrect conclusion. IMHO, blaming the house
would just be plain wrong.Another example would be
Man dresses up in full Arabian attire turban and all, goes into the Masjid curses children,
performs a lewd act then performs salat, is he mutaqqin or have the onlookers been
fooled into thinking he represents religion? In this case is religion wrong or is the fool
I described devoid of religion? In this very forum we have discussed what should we
call ourselves because the "nuts" have now given Muslims a bad name, should we reject
the word Muslim also?God bless
peace
Yeah, I think we should not reject the word Muslim just because others use it who do not follow what we follow.
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Yeah, I think we should not reject the word Muslim just because others use it who do not follow what we follow.
Agreed,
In my opinion we should not reject the word religion for the same reason, what do you think?
What has been lacking recently by some of us forum members is a contextual understanding
of the Quran, would you or any other member be able to undertake such an endeavor? prGod bless you
peace
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Agreed,
In my opinion we should not reject the word religion for the same reason, what do you think?
What has been lacking recently by some of us forum members is a contextual understanding
of the Quran, would you or any other member be able to undertake such an endeavor? prGod bless you
peace
What would it require of me?
Yes, I agree, I use the word religion, and I'm pretty annoyed with people stopping me every two seconds with their problems getting over simple word usage like "worship" "religion" in some cases "God" and "Muslim" among other things. Just let a person speak, and generally a person can be understood as what they intend with what they are saying (but actually I've seen I'm hugely misunderstood repeatedly no matter how clear I try to make what I'm saying).
This only increases a feeling of misanthropy, another term often shunned and rejected, but all this contention making sentences stifled with constant stops and corrections really leads to a further hatred of humanity! Like just shut up and let a person talk! Islam islam Muslim muslim religion service duty who cares! Just let a person speak! For goodness sake!
Atheists are like this too, they can't get over their obsession with the word "God" and think it can only mean whatever they specifically imagine it to mean and can't be used in any other way to refer to anything else but whatever is in their own absurd imagination. So with them I have to work around their obsessions with certain words, but it seems far more annoying here where a person can barely say Islam or Muslim or Religion or Worship without people going wild about these words just because they find whatever they particularly imagine in relation to them to be distasteful, it is no different than the Atheists.
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Hello Samira,
By the way if someone rejects the Quran as a religious scripture, would that person still be considered a Muslim? Because you said it is God who has set a moral compass in our being, so following that compass makes one a Muslim. Now if that moral compass rejects the scripture because of issues with it, would he/she still be considered Muslim? And that moral compass is perfectly functioning by the way, it is not broken or the person did not "wait" for a sufficient time to see the "good fruits" of those rejected teachings. So what do you have to say on this?
First let's clarify some definitions
Muslim (with a capital M) = proper name of a man made religion.
"muslim" (with a small m) = common noun referring to a universal concept (peacemaking) found in all cultures."muslim" is a common noun meaning "peacemaker" as used in al-quran.
Peacemaking/"islam" (small i) is not a religion and one doesn't even have to be a believer to be a peacemaker as clear from 4914
- The dwellers of the wilderness said "we believed". Say "You didn't believe but say we made peace (aslamna) but faith has not entered your hearts and if you obey the God and his messenger, he will not diminish any of your deeds, indeed the God is forgiving, merciful".
Thus, the opposite of peacemaker/"muslim" is not disbeliever. The opposite of a peacemaker is a criminal
- Shall we make peacemakers (al-muslimeen) like criminals?
Everyone naturally knows that corruption and bloodshed is the opposite of peacemaking. Common nouns such as "peace" and "peacemaking" are universal concepts that appear in all cultures, even those that didn't have any contact with one another.
Now coming to your question
"If someone rejects the Quran as a religious scripture, would that person still be considered a "Muslim" (with a capital M)?"
NO, because in order to be a Muslim (with a capital M), you have to accept Quran as a religious scripture + other man made fabrications.
Perhaps you meant to ask the following?
If someone rejects the Quran as a religious scripture, would that person still be considered a "muslim" (with a small m)?
In that case, as per 4914, the answer will be an emphatic YES, no matter what culture, religion, or group he/she belongs to, as long as that person is not a criminal.
"muslim"/"peacemaker" is a descriptive common noun just like "smart", "beautiful", "strong" etc., and anyone who fulfils that description and makes peace will be a "muslim".
Your question would be analogous to the following questions
Can a person be considered "smart" if that person does not go to Harvard (or rejects Harvard)? Of course YES, if that person is not stupid.
Can a person be considered "strong" if that person does not learn Brazilian jiu-jitsu (or rejects Brazilian jiu-jitsu)? Of course YES, if that person is not physically weak.
For some background reading
http//www.quran4peace.org/documents/Quran4peace-English-part2.pdf
May the infinite Creator bless you.
Peace
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Hello Samira,
First let's clarify some definitions
Muslim (with a capital M) = proper name of a man made religion.
"muslim" (with a small m) = common noun referring to a universal concept (peacemaking) found in all cultures."muslim" is a common noun meaning "peacemaker" as used in al-quran.
Peacemaking/"islam" (small i) is not a religion and one doesn't even have to be a believer to be a peacemaker as clear from 4914
- The dwellers of the wilderness said "we believed". Say "You didn't believe but say we made peace (aslamna) but faith has not entered your hearts and if you obey the God and his messenger, he will not diminish any of your deeds, indeed the God is forgiving, merciful".
Thus, the opposite of peacemaker/"muslim" is not disbeliever. The opposite of a peacemaker is a criminal
- Shall we make peacemakers (al-muslimeen) like criminals?
Everyone naturally knows that corruption and bloodshed is the opposite of peacemaking. Common nouns such as "peace" and "peacemaking" are universal concepts that appear in all cultures, even those that didn't have any contact with one another.
Now coming to your question
"If someone rejects the Quran as a religious scripture, would that person still be considered a "Muslim" (with a capital M)?"
NO, because in order to be a Muslim (with a capital M), you have to accept Quran as a religious scripture + other man made fabrications.
Perhaps you meant to ask the following?
If someone rejects the Quran as a religious scripture, would that person still be considered a "muslim" (with a small m)?
In that case, as per 4914, the answer will be an emphatic YES, no matter what culture, religion, or group he/she belongs to, as long as that person is not a criminal.
"muslim"/"peacemaker" is a descriptive common noun just like "smart", "beautiful", "strong" etc., and anyone who fulfils that description and makes peace will be a "muslim".
Your question would be analogous to the following questions
Can a person be considered "smart" if that person does not go to Harvard (or rejects Harvard)? Of course YES, if that person is not stupid.
Can a person be considered "strong" if that person does not learn Brazilian jiu-jitsu (or rejects Brazilian jiu-jitsu)? Of course YES, if that person is not physically weak.
For some background reading
http//www.quran4peace.org/documents/Quran4peace-English-part2.pdf
May the infinite Creator bless you.
Peace
bravo awesome!
I would accept "submissive" as another expression defining the concept "muslim" but in correct sense a person submissive to Allah = a person upholding his God gifted sense of right and wrong = a peacemaker. I simply prefer the term "submissive" over "peacemaker" because "peacemaker" may give the incorrect impression that a muslim should never fight or take the "wrong" path for the sake of making peace. A muslim / submissive / peacemaker (in the broadest sense) should make peace and engage in fight against the wrongdoers if fighting is the only indispensable way of making peace.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
- I believe I am a better and more knowing believer than anyone on this website (all credit to Allah).
Salam FreedomStands.
You seem to carry the misunderstanding that "knowing God correctly" is the benchmark for being a faithful (mu'min). But perhaps, it is not knowing - rather than accepting our relationship with God which is the real benchmark for being a faithful (mu'min). And true acceptance of relationship with God spares us from egotism and pride.
In Qur'an knowledge and wisdom has been compared with "riches". Being the richest person doesn't mean much if the wealth is not used for good purpose and show-off of the wealth becomes more important than use of the wealth. Similarly, knowledge and wisdom doesn't mean much if the knowledge is not used for good purpose and show-off of the knowledge becomes more important than use of the knowledge.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salam FreedomStands.
You seem to carry the misunderstanding that "knowing God correctly" is the benchmark for being a faithful (mu'min). But perhaps, it is not knowing - rather than accepting our relationship with God which is the real benchmark for being a faithful (mu'min). And true acceptance of relationship with God spares us from egotism and pride.
In Qur'an knowledge and wisdom has been compared with "riches". Being the richest person doesn't mean much if the wealth is not used for good purpose and show-off of the wealth becomes more important than use of the wealth. Similarly, knowledge and wisdom doesn't mean much if the knowledge is not used for good purpose and show-off of the knowledge becomes more important than use of the knowledge.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanThat is a good idea but ignorance has apparently become an excuse for flirting with ideas of shirk, which is what I was speaking out against.
If you "aren't sure if God is a crocodile" then you don't know what God is and are basically flirting with all manner of wrong ideas.
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Well in that case, let me make the following statements
I believe I'm a true believer.
I believe I'm true or right and most everybody else is false most of the time.
I believe I'm above others, spiritually, I'm a big bad giant.
Or if you prefer, spiritually obese in the extreme. a
Most of you look like ants from up here, non-muslim fire ants. Strong, Stubborn, with a nasty bite,Allah does not like self boasting ones. You really need to verify your claim from the Quran. And I am eager to know supporting verses to your each of the disgusting claims.!
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Wisdom is the ability to use the knowledge well. This is why knowledge is often written in conjunction with wisdom.
Knowledge on its own does not necessarily need to avail a man.
Salaam
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Allah does not like self boasting ones. You really need to verify your claim from the Quran. And I am eager to know supporting verses to your each of the disgusting claims.!
Here is one for my "disgusting claims" regarding what you might consider my "disgusting" God (by the way I don't mind your tone, it makes this all the more fun!)
478
...Say "All is from God."...That covers everything really.