Why isn't God responsible ?
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Peace truthseeker11,
We don't know the nature of Allah , still we are arguing about Allah as spaceoccupying something. Do you see our limitation? I told you before - Allah encompasses absolutely everything we know of. So I am not contradicting 2115. We including space are all illusion /virtual. As a neutrino typically passes through normal matter unimpeded , Allah also pervades everything ( I don't know how , because Allah's nature unknown).
So it's futile to argue with no knowledge of Allah about part of Allah. May Allah guide us all.
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Salam Arman,
nice analogy,
I think Him of a drawing artist who is on work, one who keeps drawing and takes ideas from our will.
Thanks Amin.
Once again.. I have to respectfully disagree with the term "... and takes ideas from our will". Per my humble understanding our will is not distinct from His will. We do not will until He wills. He is the Subject, we are dependents. He is the Master, we are slaves - always has been, ever will be - we like it or not. That is how the analogy of novel works.
But of course this realization may be difficult to digest for egocentric human mind, which LOVES so much to take a comfort in believing "I think, therefore I am". Perhaps "I think, I didn't choose to think, therefore God makes me think, so God is." is a better realization, but very few can realize.
A working bee may be in the illusion that it is collecting and storing honey out of its free will, but the fact of the matter is ? the working bee is only acting upon the genetic instruction built into it. Even the queen bee which leaves the old hive and leads a new hive of its own is not acting upon its free will. It has built-in instruction inside to act like that. We arrogant humans feel so confident we are much more ?independent? than the bees and birds and beasts. But are we?
Starting from an indefinite point in time in my early childhood (when My consciousness/ruh became operational) I have been caught into this movie ? perfectly directed with all cast and crews, seamlessly scripted, marvelously colorful in perfect 4-D format ? the movie everybody called reality. I didn?t ask to be in it nor do I know when I?ll leave it. So, I am not convinced that my ?free will? is at all free. My free will? every word that I utter in the extreme privacy of my thoughts? like everything else in this world is pre-scripted by the Almighty. I do not know if Almighty has planned me to be a troublemaker or a peacemaker in this movie. I hope I am playing the role of the peacemaker ? a role that would be in the good book of my Master once the movie is over. With that humble wish my devoted prayer to my Master is ? ?Guide us to the straight route, (please); route of those whom You approved upon - not who have anger upon them ? and nor (of) the deviating ones.? I hope my prayer and my sincerity is a sign to me that I am on the right path. Perhaps, that hope is all that am I - or perhaps even that hope is pre-scripted. I rely on my Master.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salam Arman,
Ok I am taking your point, and here i do not disagree that He is the master, since he is the one who is drawing.
But my point is our worthless will(not egocentric ) is respected by Him. that's the test for us or i will safely call that as a practice.
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Salam Arman,
Ok I am taking your point, and here i do not disagree that He is the master, since he is the one who is drawing.
But my point is our worthless will(not egocentric ) ) is respected by Him. that's the test for us or i will safely call that as a practice.
Salam Amin
Of course our worthless will is respected by Him. It is His will afterall!
It is His mercy that He chose to run this movie in the first place. We are indebted to Him like Sherlok Holmes in indebted to Sir Arthur C. Doyle. We owe everything to Him. EVERYTHING. That is His mercy.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
But God will not do all the work for you and you can just lay back and relax and expect everything to come to you by mere belief. You have to act upon the word. Realize it.
That is part of the passivist delusion regarding religion and a trap.Coming to a conclusion that God exist is just the start and God is not satisfied by mere belief but you need to show the works. And the condition you ought to be in is that you should realize there is a Creator and not only believe there is one and also be realized in the Creator. That other is the belief delusion.
Like me, I KNOW there is a Creator and I do not believe. That is for people with weak faith. I work on realizing myself in the Creator rather than stuck on some believing. I want to be realized in God, the angels, the prophets, the knowledge and all those other people who had a realization.
Salaam
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Salamun Alaikum.
If there is a character in the novel which does nothing but all the time waits for the novelist to do something for him ? then indeed the novelist has chosen to make it an extremely pathetic character. His "rank of worth" in the novel must be very low. May Allah save us from being such an idiot.
495 The ones sitting (inactive) among the faithful, except the disabled ones, are not level with the ones striving in Allah?s path with their wealth and their souls. Allah has graced the ones striving with their wealth and their souls above the ones sitting (inactive) - in rank. And to everyone Allah promises the nicest. And Allah has graced the ones striving (hard) with their wealth and their souls above the ones sitting (inactive) - with a great reward.
496 Rank from Him and forgiveness and mercy- and Allah happens to be Forgiving, Merciful.
497 Indeed those ? whom the angels put away (while) they (would be) doing injustice to their souls ? they (would) say, ?What had you been into?? They (would) say, ?We used to be vulnerable in the earth.? They (would) say. ?Hasn?t the earth of Allah been spacious (enough) for you to emigrate in it?? So they are the ones ? their refuge is in Hell - and an evil destination.
498 - Except the vulnerable ones among the fellows, the women and the children not able to dodge or were not guided to the path.
499 Then they are the ones, perhaps Allah will pardon them and Allah happens to be Pardoning, Forgiving.
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
So good you realize that though.
Some people, actually a considerable amount, think mostly that plain faith without personal input is required as God does the work for them as long as they choose to believe. This is particularly what they have the ritual salat(eh) for because if they perform it then "automagically" they will be doing things right and they please God (like as if a Pagan god which needs to be kept satisfied by meaningless rituals).
What is belief anyway? Guessing! You think there is a Creator, but not for sure.
Salaam
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Salamun Alaikum
Per my humble understanding belief is neither necessary, nor sufficient condition for salvation. But it helps.
245 And seek help through the patience and the salaat and indeed it surely is severe except for the humble ones.
246 Who believe that they will meet their Master and that to Him they will return.
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
May Allah make me humble so that I do not reject salaat and I do not reject belief.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.Regards,
Arman -
Belief is guessing, mister. To what avail will it be?
Reject a ritual yes, I do not reject salat salat no but I have a salat that works.
And I am realized about God.
Salaam
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Salamun Alaikum.
If I believe that - if I go to school everyday and study hard, I'll pass the exam - that's a guess. So many thinks can go wrong. I may die or fall ill, there may be a war break-out to disrupt the academic calendar and so on. But still the belief - however unfound and irrational it may be helps me to drag my body to go to school everyday and study diligently. The belief makes it easy.
If I believe I am to meet my Master after my death for taking account of how I performed in my life - that belief makes it easy to lead my life aright.
Without belief staying faithful is difficult, though not impossible. Belief makes it easier. And Qur'an teaches us to believe. And I have put my faith in Qur'an. For me that is sufficient reason to believe.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Sure, belief can make things easier. So many people who believe in a sectarian Islam and they are helped by that in their fleshly instincts by the release of bodily hormones, but it does not help them except give false comfort UNLESS they also do proper works and have the right affinity.
There are lots of people who believe in New Age and that helps their wellbeing.
That does not say that God is expecting people to believe. That means you are uncertain and it is hardly the right way to go.
The error for you is that you should know you are to meet your Creator and not believe it.
And no, the Quran does not teach us to believe but it teaches us to be realized and to rely on the Rabb. does not mean believe but it means 'be realized' just as means to 'be determined'.
Salaam
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The error for you is that you should know you are to meet your Creator and not believe it.
Salamun Alaikum.
When it comes to the matters of unobservable realm (al-ghaib) it is not for humans to know them, but to believe. That's why the term "a'limul ghaib" (Knowledgeable of the Unobservable) is reserved for the Almighty. The term "know" especially when contrasted with the term "believe", implies understanding verified by one's physical perception ability. I know that grapes taste good only after I personally eat some. Until I taste grapes, no matter how convinced I am that grapes taste good - I merely believe it, do not know it.
Those who pretend to "know" matters which are by definition beyond human perception ability are only acting out of arrogance.
OR, the meaning of the terms "know" and "believe" could be different to them. Indeed it is pointless discussing with those who do not accept the "commonly accepted" word meanings.
And once agains, verses like 245-46 DO teach/encourage us to believe that we are to meet our Creator.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Commonly accepted meanings? Ask another doctrine and 'amen' does not mean believe. It is just a lie that it means believe.
And just because of "commonly accepted meanings" that would be safe to say a meaning is right? You seem oblivious to the fact who "helped" shape Islam.
Commonly accepted meanings to make a Pagan religion out of an innocent scripture in that case.
Salaam
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Salamun Alaikum.
By "commonly accepted meanings" I mean the full range of meanings that the primary users of the language demonstrably associate with a particular word.
The English word "Apple" primarily means a round fruit with red, yellow, or green skin and firm white flesh. But it can be demonstrated that in English language the term "apple" has been used in different meanings like
- to mean something favorable An apple of one's eye.
- to mean an American Indian who behaves more like a European than an Indian Stop acting like an apple!
- or even to mean a baseball Jim slammed the apple over the plate, but the ump called it a ball.
So, choosing any of these meanings depending on the context may be acceptable. And usually survey of such known / acceptable meanings are published in dictionaries and lexicons.
But if I say I do not believe in dictionaries, lexicon - from now on Apple means "Orange" - that is not a commonly accepted meaning. That is my wishful thinking -even though the term orange may often comfortably replace the term apple in many given texts.
This is getting seriously off topic now. So, I'll pause here. You can make a sleeping person awake, but not someone who is sleeping while awake.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Arman, I see the sarcasm in your words and if you really knew you could apply it for yourself. Wake up.
Well, established nouns for items is more difficult to argue but when the words take an abstract tone it is easier to make it gain bias.
It is an overgeneralization that causes the word amen to gain believe while it means innately 'realization'. If you are ignorant and too brief in pondering the meaning you can easily generalize it as 'belief' even if this is wrong. But the word must remain on what it originally means and it meant realize far earlier than interpreters of Arabic twisted it to mean believe.
Same goes for Eslam as submission while that is an inaccurate definition as it means to trust/rely/faithful. Abd is the more closer word to submit and means give yourself away someone else and why it is usually translated with serve/servant connotations.
You see how easily a word can gain bias and become inaccurate.
Particularly people tend to make the religion more Pagan and choose definitions that imply on worship, rituals and rites.
Abd has often been translated as worship while this is utterly wrong. Not even remotely near.
Another example is in the (in)famous 4102 to justify a Pagan ritual. You can read weapons in it but the weapons refer to arguments which is a kind of non-physical/abstract weapon.
Salaam
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Arman, I see the sarcasm in your words and if you really knew you could apply it for yourself. Wake up.
Well, established nouns for items is more difficult to argue but when the words take an abstract tone it is easier to make it gain bias.
It is an overgeneralization that causes the word amen to gain believe while it means innately 'realization'. If you are ignorant and too brief in pondering the meaning you can easily generalize it as 'belief' even if this is wrong. But the word must remain on what it originally means and it meant realize far earlier than interpreters of Arabic twisted it to mean believe.
Same goes for Eslam as submission while that is an inaccurate definition as it means to trust/rely/faithful. Abd is the more closer word to submit and means give yourself away someone else and why it is usually translated with serve/servant connotations.
You see how easily a word can gain bias and become inaccurate.
Particularly people tend to make the religion more Pagan and choose definitions that imply on worship, rituals and rites.
Abd has often been translated as worship while this is utterly wrong. Not even remotely near.
Another example is in the (in)famous 4102 to justify a Pagan ritual. You can read weapons in it but the weapons refer to arguments which is a kind of non-physical/abstract weapon.
Salaam
Salam MoF.
I know very well that amana does not mean believe (rather the meaning is close to "put faith / to accept". a'bada does not mean to worship (rather the meaning is close to "be slave" and salaat does not mean prayer (rather the meaning is close to "respect". My understanding of these word meanings are strongly grounded on works of classical arabic lexicons, not my wishful thinking.
My problem with your approach is not in your choice of word meanings. I can happily accept disagreement over the word-meaning with someone. But my disagreement with your approach is fundamental. You do not accept any form of dictionaries, lexicons or language tools and the usage / knowledge of original speakers of language or other classical literature work. You wishfully think you can cook-up meanings of arabic letters and then synthesize them to come up with your own meanings. That is an approach I find as ridiculous as the approach of flat-earth believers. When we reject the cumulative knowledge of mankind altogether and start to feel we know better - that is already a big enough red flag that something is terribly wrong.
So when it comes to understanding or interpreting Qur'an - I am totally indifferent to what you think or what you say. I accept Qur'an as a text in plain arabic in which I see the signs of my Master. I would only like to discuss Qur'an with others who also read it in plain arabic - a language like any other language carrying word meanings based on how the speakers of the language use and understand it - not a cryptography that needs to be solved. If you find Qur'an to be something else good for you - we are clearly not "speaking the same language". For you is your resolution, for me is mine.
And as far as your thoelogical understanding is concerned - I find it sound/acceptable, but I find your method of seeking God (or assimilating with God as you like to call it) incompatible with millat-i-Ibrahim as well as Quranic teaching per my understanding. Perhaps your different path will also lead you to success - but I do feel you should be more careful in passing comentary like Qur'an says this, and Qur'an doesn't say this to unsuspecting readers - without adequately clarifying that you are using your own personally cooked-up version of Arabic to read Qur'an. It is not Qur'an which says the things you say - these are your wishful thinking which you want to forcefully fit into Qur'an. Deceiving others with invented falsehood suffices as a clear sin.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman
