Does Islam allow homosexuality?
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Salaam hicham,
It is clear that the community indulged violently in homosexual rape. And the people refused to take Lot's daughters but they gladly wanted the handsome-looking disguised angels.
Salaam
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Praise be to Allah. I'm glad there are still people who don't "worship" homosexuality.
Who "worships" homosexuality? Do you worship heterosexuality?
Peace
----------- Student of Allah -
4.15 and 4.16 is addressed to the believers community at large, women and men. and in them there is not punishment foreseen for anybody. It is a question od social engagements to keep society in good conditions and take care that women are not exploited in prostitution. Those who are already caught in it must be taken off the street and given proper homes and means to keep themselves there till God finds for them another means of subsistence.
As to 4.16 it may well be speaking about the prostitute and the client and how believers should speak out to them to refrain from that kind of behaviour.
Salaam
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That was a thousand years before Moses became a Prophet and they were destroyed because they were bad people, not because they were homosexuals (if they were).
Prophet David was a homosexual as a further proof after Moses, meaning the homosexuality law was abrogated by the later Prophets.
Prophet Lut received the Book of the Prophets - Ummul Kitab, which all Prophets received. The Judgement stated in the Book of the Prophets were first issued to the people of Abraham, as a directive and later additional directive were given to Musa for his people. These directives makes the Book of Musa, which Dawood received in a form of a section . This was the Tawrat. In it stated clearly
Leviticus 1822 - Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 2013 - If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
So where does it says homosexuality law was abrogated by the later Prophets???
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Salaam hicham,
It is clear that the community indulged violently in homosexual rape. And the people refused to take Lot's daughters but they gladly wanted the handsome-looking disguised angels.
Salaam
If you think the story of Lot is about homosexual rape then that is saying a lot about your perverted mind, not about Quran. It's also telling me you dont understand Prophet Lot at all. Not any better than the extremists in eg IS. Maybe you should study Lot's story again. Clearly you have accepted traditional/hadith inspired interpretations over truth.
See http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602254.msg355699#msg355699 if you are afraid to do your own homework on this topic.
I don't care if the majority of those calling themselves muslim are homophobic. Where I draw the lign though, is where you project homophobia as a trait of God. That's a lie.
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Salamun Alaikum.
Per my humble understanding the people of Lot were involved in a practice / culture similar to "Bacha bazi".
(Reference http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi)Is it a mere coincidence that people of Afghanistan seem to have the similar fate of the people of Lot - death and destruction by rain of firey ammunitions? Something to ponder.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
You may like to think so but it's still pure conjecture. I suggest you look up the occurrences of fahisha in Quran. There are verses giving examples of what it can consist of none of those refer to homosexuality or sexuality whatsoever. Once you consider the quranic evidence, you dont have to "like to think" anything, you can be certain.
A lot of you seem to enjoy projecting your own opinions and attribute those to God. Since when are we partners to God?
Fahisha meaning
fahisha (FA, HA, SH) meaning something ugly, abomination, immorality.
Other occurences 6151, 2169, 1224, 1224
None of them fit the explanation of homosexuality. It's a general word used for something immoral. To find out what is immoral we have to look at the whole Quran. Saying this Fahisha is proof for condemning homosexuality is for any logic mind a circular argumentation. In 1224 it is mentioned alongside transgression. Again it's a general label for immorality and does not specify what that immorality consists of. We do find evidence in Quran what this immorality can consist of such as killing children, the murder of oneself and the murder of others as in 6151. The list however does not contain homosexuality.
This establishes beyond doubt the interpretation of fahisha being homosexuality is injected by homophobics of which there are still plenty today.
The ignorance with some of those posting in this thread is gigantic attributing partners to God, killing your children out of poverty or any sort of murder is a more probable sin of the people opposing Lot. But still a majority of you seems to prefer ignoring this and jumps to homosexual rape.
God knows best.
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Salam runninglikezebras.
Thanks for your prompt and enthusiastic response.
If you study the culture of "Bacha bazi" you'd know that this is not about people with non-normal sexual orientation. The malpractice is promoted and excercised by heretosexual men who enjoy subjugating young males to show off their power. They seek to enjoy a"cleaner" alternative to deriving pleasure from heterosexual intercourse. My reading of story of the people of Lot gives me idea of pretty much a similar practice.
This practice is ugliness, abomination and immorality in every sense of these words.
I do not believe the story of people of Lot has been narrated to us so that we can hunt down people with mis-aligned sexual orientation.
By the way - I humbly object to your generalization that "A lot of you seem to enjoy projecting your own opinions and attribute those to God." I try my level best to keep strict separation between my opinion and what Qur'an says. I look for signs of my Master in Qur'an and share my opinion with readers of the forum - if anyone finds it interesting or useful good, if not good as well. Rather you are unfairly blaming me of attributing my opinion to God.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salam runninglikezebras.
Thanks for your prompt and enthusiastic response.
If you study the culture of "Bacha bazi" you'd know that this is not about people with non-normal sexual orientation. The malpractice is promoted and excercised by heretosexual men who enjoy subjugating young males to show off their power. They seek to enjoy a"cleaner" alternative to deriving pleasure from heterosexual intercourse. My reading of story of the people of Lot gives me idea of pretty much a similar practice.
This practice is ugliness, abomination and immorality in every sense of these words.
I do not believe the story of people of Lot has been narrated to us so that we can hunt down people with mis-aligned sexual orientation.
By the way - I humbly object to your generalization that "A lot of you seem to enjoy projecting your own opinions and attribute those to God." I try my level best to keep strict separation between my opinion and what Qur'an says. I look for signs of my Master in Qur'an and share my opinion with readers of the forum - if anyone finds it interesting or useful good, if not good as well. Rather you are unfairly blaming me of attributing my opinion to God.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanOf course that practice is immoral to anybody's standards. But we aren't discussing our understanding of immorality. We should be looking at how God defines immorality in Quran. All other understandings of what is immoral outside Gods definition of it, is subjective and irrelevant. Eg the practice of "Bacha bazi" is condemned in Quran by the verses that speak about the requirement of physical/mental maturity to have sexual relations with someone. There is no quranic evidence it's wrong because of it's homosexual nature. It is wrong however because of not meeting the requirements of mutual adulthood in such a relation. Wouldn't you agree any form of this practice (heterosexual or homosexual) would be considered as pedophilia?
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Of course that practice is immoral to anybody's standards. But we aren't discussing our understanding of immorality. We should be looking at how God defines immorality in Quran. All other understandings of what is immoral outside Gods definition of it, is subjective and irrelevant.
Salam runninglikezebras.
Unfortunately I do not agree with your above statement. Qur'an does not give any "absolute truth" outside human intellect and conscience. Human sense and understanding of morality, goodness, fairness - are "senses" that Allah built into or programmed into human beings. The Qur'an contains signs from Allah against which we are supposed to benchmark, evaluate, fine-tune our God gifted senses of right and wrong, good and bad. Getting right guidance from Qur'an is always subjective upon the reader's sincere application of his God-gifted intellect and conscience.
Forget your intelligence and morality and follow what the Qur'an (or any book for that matter) says - is a call towards blind faith and ignorance. I seek refuge to my Master from being among the ignorants.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
follow what the Qur'an (or any book for that matter) says - is a call towards blind faith and ignorance.
I cant believe you said that. I follow Quran. It does not lead me to ignorance. Quran requires intellect to understand. Human moral values change with culture, time and are subjective often wrong. Gods moral standards are the only ones that are just. But yeah, one needs to understand them first.
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I cant believe you said that. I follow Quran. It does not lead me to ignorance. Quran requires intellect to understand. Human moral values change with culture, time and are subjective often wrong. Gods moral standards are the only ones that are just. But yeah, one needs to understand them first.
Salam runninglikezebras.
Now you are quoting half of my sentence to make me sound like saying statements that I never made! brickwall
This is exactly the approach religion-sellers use to misguide people with verses from Qur'an. I will have to remember to be extra cautious before I accept any of your statement in good faith in future.This is exactly the reason why getting right guidance from Qur'an is always subjective upon the reader's sincere application of his God-gifted intellect and conscience.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
You also said this
Qur'an does not give any "absolute truth"
What an ignorant thing to say. Did God forget something in it? Did God make it too difficult to understand? Does God tell you you should trust your own devices over the guidance God is offering you with Quran?
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The people in IS are using their own truths to throw homosexuals of rooftops. The absolute truth in Quran is there is no mentioning about homosexuality at all. I guess you support those practices. I can see where this using your own intellect over Quranic absolute truth is working out. It's not even a matter of interpretation. Any reference to homosexuality is entirely absent in Quran.
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Sigh again a partial quotation.
nope
What I said was Qur'an does not give any "absolute truth" outside human intellect and conscience.
Quran requires intellect to understand.
If Qur'an requires intellect to understand, how can Qur'an contain absolute truth independent of human intellect?
Qur'an contains absolute truth which can only be unlocked / understood by sincere application of both human intellect and human conscience.Qur'an + sincere application of intellect + sincere application of conscience = right guidance (absolute truth).
226 Indeed Allah is not embarrassed to set forth an example of even a mosquito or something above it ? then as for those who have put faith, so they know that is the truth from their Master, and as for those who repress (faith) so they say ?What does Allah intend by this example?? He deviates many with it and guides many with it, but He does not deviate with it anyone except the willfully disobedient .
(My personal translation, emphasis added, cross checking recommended.)
The people of IS are seeking absolute truth in Qur'an while repressing their God gifted intellect and conscience. You my dear friend, knowingly or unknowingly, are advocating the same misguided path.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Sigh again a partial quotation.
nope
What I said was Qur'an does not give any "absolute truth" outside human intellect and conscience.
If Qur'an requires intellect to understand, how can Qur'an contain absolute truth independent of human intellect?
Qur'an contains absolute truth which can only be unlocked / understood by sincere application of both human intellect and human conscience.Absolute truth can entirely exist independent of human intellect. Even if everyone in the world misunderstood Quran, Quran itself still contains absolute truth. It's just misunderstood. Qurans absolute truth is not unlocked by mere intellect and conscience, they have their flaws. Without guidance from God it wont help one bit understanding it.
Qur'an + sincere application of intellect + sincere application of conscience = right guidance (absolute truth).
You are so wrong about this. IS uses Quran, applies it's format of sincere intellect to it and their version of conscience resulting in wrong guidance. Because they aren't guided by God. IQ is irrelevant in understanding an absolute truth. If your reasoning would be correct everyone with high intellect would accept Quran. We know this isn't the reality.
The people of IS are seeking absolute truth in Qur'an while repressing their God gifted intellect and conscience. You my dear friend, knowingly or unknowingly, advocating the same path.
IS is not seeking absolute truth. Just like the homophobes in this thread they are letting their own opinions overrule the absolute lack of support in Quran for it. It's ignorance and not being guided by God. I'm not advocating the same path. You are, you are encouraging to freely instill any of your own opinions and attribute those to God. Next step throw a homosexual towards his death or shoot someone who draws pictures of muhammed.