I was about to apostate but then i found the Quranist path

Man_of_Faith

Salaam Arman,

The trinity concept is wrong because they make a separation between GOD and Jesus when Jesus said he was in the Father and the Father in him. He said that anyone who did like him would also be like that. Even if the Christians make Jesus GOD it is often wrong because they still make a separation because they think Jesus is GOD but not that themselves can be.

They still have that separate GOD entity projection like other Abrahamic sects like Muslims and Jews have despite that Jesus tried to make them enlightened on how things really are. They just replaced the image of GOD with Jesus instead, or rather made two (or three per trinity Father, Son and the Holy Spirit) separate images instead of just one. Both are wrong.

Salaam

Man_of_Faith

Salaam Novice,

Injeel is intact but only misinterpreted and misrepresented. There are minor errors in the perception on what it says which has given dire consequences and that is who Jesus was. His famous expressions were misunderstood even if the context can reveal what he meant.

Salaam

Hizbullah

Salam Hizbullah I like what you said in the post but there is one confusion. If Tawrat and Injeel were in their original form then why verse 572-73 condemns trinity and the concept that Issa is son of God. We are told in the history that these concepts were included into bible in council of Nicea before the time of the last prophet.

Peace

Salam Novice,

The concept of Monophysite and Trinity are never approve by ALLAH. As you have pointed out the verses...

0572 - This verse is referring to the Monopysites

They have certainly DISBELIEVED WHO SAY, "ALLAH is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship ALLAH, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with ALLAH ? ALLAH has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.

The concept of Monophysites were a doctrine created by the beak away party from among the Israelite during the administration of Esa.
These concept were wipe out as the Quran says 6114

O you who have believed, be supporters of ALLAH, as when Esa, the son of Maryam, said to the disciples, "Who are my supporters for
ALLAH?" The disciples said, "We are supporters of ALLAH." And a faction of the Children of Israel BELIEVED AND A FACTION DISBELIEVED. So We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they became dominant.

However, this concept again emerged in the 3rd Century among the people, the so called Monophysites in which the Quran label as disbelievers, those among them who say that Esa is ALLAH. But this concept was at a fetuses stage. That is where the era when the Prophet was sent to counter those disbelievers.

0573 - This verse is referring to the Trinitrians

They have certainly DISBELIEVED WHO SAY, "ALLAH is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.

This concept was also taken from the earlier concept of those breakaway parties and indoctrinated into the teachings in the 4th Century.
The Athanesian contribution of one ousia (essence) and Three hypostases (persons) was developed by the Cappadocian Fathers and the doctrine of Trinitarian was developed. The unity is reflected in their mutual co-inherence or co-indwelling. The co-eternity, co-equality and co-essentiality of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit were officially proclaimed at the first great council of the church at Nicaea in 325. Later the synod of the Constantinople confirmed it.

During Prophet Esa's administration, he warned his people of the consequences. He was questioned by the ALMIGHTY, The Quran 05116

And when ALLAH said, "O Esa, Son of Maryam, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides ALLAH?'" He said, "Exalted are YOU! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, YOU would have known it. YOU know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within YOURSELF. Indeed, it is YOU who is Knower of the unseen.

This is to be read inconjuntion with 04;171, when the Last Prophet warned

O People of the Book, do not commit excess in your religion or say about ALLAH except the truth. The Messiah, Esa, the son of Maryam, was but a messenger of ALLAH and HIS word which HE conveyed to Maryam thru the Spirit from HIM. So believe in ALLAH and HIS messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, ALLAH is but one God. Exalted is HE above having a son. To HIM belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is ALLAH as Disposer of affairs.

The above verse is to be read with 05111

And when I inspired her to the disciples, that believe in Me and in My messenger Esa." They said, "We have believed, so bear witness that indeed we are Muslims ."

Peace

seekingthetruth

Peace and welcome

I am not a good writer, so I hope you will be able to comprehend my bad English and what actually my message is )

AQ; 0569 - Indeed, those who have believed and those who were Jews or Sabeans or Christians ? those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness ? no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

Irrespective of what you are, Jews or Nasara or Sabeans , if you believe sincerely in ONE ALLAH , and in the Last Day, you are a Muslim.

The Last Prophet was sent not to establish a new religion but to confirmed and to support what was already established. He came at a time when there was a cessation in the messenger AND when there were controversies regarding to the believes, for example, Arian Monophysites and Trinitrians controversies.

AQ; 0519 - O People of the Book, there has come to you Our Messenger to make clear to you after a period of cessation of messengers, lest you say, "There came not to us any bringer of good tidings or a warner." But there has come to you a bringer of good tidings and a warner. And Allah is over all things competent.

And to convey to mankind of the true "DEEN", so that, they follow what is already in the Tawrat and Injeel and what is in the 2nd addendum of the Book of Musa - The Quran.

AQ; 0568 - Say, "O People of the Book, you are on nothing until you uphold the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people.

It show clearly that the Tawrat and Injeel was in their original form during the ministry of the Prophet otherwise it makes no sense by telling people to follow what has already been corrupted. The traditional sources of Islam, are nothing but conjectures. Most follow the satanic man made hadith which has nothing to do with the authentic teaching of the Quran, like wife beating, killing, so on and so forth!

Please read - http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606373.0

Also the history of the Quran and the Last Prophet has been manipulated to a degree of beyond repairs. Muslims in this world thinks that the Last Prophet came 300 years after Christianity and that Islam plagiarized what is in the "Christian Book". These are some of the reasons that Muslim apostate, thinking that those other so called religion are the true ones. I know some of them in my country and this are their main reasons.

I advise myself and you, my sister, stay firm and put your trust in the ALMIGHTY. ALLAH has given us the faculties of intelligence, eyesight and hearing, so it is up to us to make use of what we have, with the blessing of ALLAH, to seek the truth.

peace

Peace,

Thank you for this helpful reply and great information. You've mentioned interesting points, although i am not completely agree with you.

I believe that the God who created us is the most merciful and he will not punish someone who chooses certain religion or even reject the idea of the creator. Since Allah does not give us clear evidences for that. So, being a Muslim, any religion, agnostic or atheist does not affect our fate in the hereafter, but being a good person who submit to the universal laws and who will to do the goodness for self and the humanity. I've found this interpretation of the word Islam _ or submission - is the most convenient to me so far.

I like your opinion about Taurat and Injeel, it is completely new for me. The link you've posted is interesting, i think i will do more research about this point.

The Islamic history is really a big question for me. I used to study it through one prosepective. So far i am not sure about any thing related to it, so i'll consider your point of veiw as one of the theories.

The Islamic history is really a big mystery for me. I used to study it through the Sunni points of view. So far, i am not sure about any thing related to it, but i'll consider your point of view as one of the theories.

Surely, we should keep searching and reading till we we find what is the right for our minds and hearts.

regards,

seekingthetruth

Salam Seekingthetruth.

Our sense of right and wrong which you describe as morals and logics is our direct obligation to the One who gave us the gift of life. Let us uphold this obligation with all sincerity - that is what faith (iman) is all about.

Religion is only meant to show us a trail to excercise the above obligation, the moment it starts to preach against this obligiation - it no longer guides to any trail, except the trail to hell.

Welcome to the forum, and may Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

Hello,

That is exactly what i believe in, religions are our means to apply the right ethics. For some people, they do not need religions to follow the right path.

Peace,

Man_of_Faith

seekingthetruth,

You are entirely right in your reply to Hizbullah. GOD will not punish you for what you believe but for your actions even if what you believe in will surely affect your actions.

There is no concrete evidence in itself of a Creator because the Creator is the existence so you need to behold and realize that GOD is not separate from yourself to have the perfect evidence plus grow spiritually. If you can believe in/realize yourself then you have faith in GOD.

And the first realization which is very important to make is that you have two you (schizophrenia?), the beast and you and listening to the beast to much is listening to Shaytaan/Satan (Satan, the word, means literally tempter), your instincts. And the jinn people may speak so much about is earthly/material desire affinity.

And there is not really any "god" in existence but a grand consciousness called 'The Rabb' which realm (Allah) you can realize yourself in.

Satan is not really a separate entity but our desires basically. It is a constant struggle against our schizophrenic selves. One which is the soul (the real you/consciousness/could-be-Allah) and one which is the attached flesh, the beast. Listening to the "robot" beast you control too much is disastrous because you may succumb to it and reach a condition of permanency, but like Jesus said in the Biblical Gospels "separate the spirit from the flesh". And being in the image of Allah is not to be under a dictator but is actually a great relief. One should experience it.

Because of what I wrote above there are also no religions because there is no object of worship but only immerse and assimilate yourself in ONE image which is Allah, since there is just ONE constancy effect.

It is due to teachings like these our friend Jesus was blatantly murdered a couple of millennia ago. The sects could not stand his controversial ideas against their own projection of what GOD is. His most severe blasphemies according to them was "I am in the Father and the Father is in me" and when he said "You are forgiven", for who can forgive sins but GOD (according to them).
The knowledge of no separate GOD has been with people for thousands of years, but the sects silence the knowledge rapidly and they do not accept that part. This is why there is no distinct GOD entity in Buddhism because they kept a little of the teachings.

Salaam

seekingthetruth

Salaam,

I understand the feeling of hypocrisy, seekingthetruth. I need to conceal my faith in the "Islamic" Republic of Iran and have a face outwards of accepting traditional Islam to be accepted socially, and I feel like a hypocrite although it is a matter of security.

A first step is to ditch all the false hadith. Jurisdiction should never come from any other source than Quran and the Law of Moses (included in Quran) and the elaboration made by Jesus (Injeel - which did not change the decree but complemented it in explanation) and the decree will never change, i.e. the (so-called) 'Ten Commandments' are the way to go and other rules are man-made community choices on punishment etc, and the ones from hadith are probably among the worst choices one can make.

Yet there is another problem when you have ditched the hadith and that is that Quran has a lot of errors in interpretation. The men who compiled thousands of hadith stories did also affect interpretation of Quran, and did even pervert interpretation of individual words.

One thing is that they forced the interpretation to include Jewish and Zoroastrian man-made religious tradition by handpicking words to have a doctrinal meaning and said "this is the Arabic word for it". The word salat(eh) is one of them.

A musalla, where you gain salat, is a spiritual guidance session and the word does not refer to praying (du'a) or connection. The only connection is the connection to spiritual teachings, by relating to it.

Salaam

Hello,

I agree with you that Hadith and Quran interpretations are affected by other religions and the mythology. This thing made me 100% sure that traditional Islam is not true. I found many stories and punishments found in Judaism and Zoroastrian.

Regarding pray, i am not sure yet about it's nature, but a point to be think about .. is " how could a muslim who can't speak and understand Arabic, benefits from it as a spiritual connection?" .

peace;

seekingthetruth

seekingthetruth,

You are entirely right in your reply to Hizbullah. GOD will not punish you for what you believe but for your actions even if what you believe in will surely affect your actions.

There is no concrete evidence in itself of a Creator because the Creator is the existence so you need to behold and realize that GOD is not separate from yourself to have the perfect evidence plus grow spiritually. If you can believe in/realize yourself then you have faith in GOD.

And the first realization which is very important to make is that you have two you (schizophrenia?), the beast and you and listening to the beast to much is listening to Shaytaan/Satan (Satan, the word, means literally tempter), your instincts. And the jinn people may speak so much about is earthly/material desire affinity.

And there is not really any "god" in existence but a grand consciousness called 'The Rabb' which realm (Allah) you can realize yourself in.

Satan is not really a separate entity but our desires basically. It is a constant struggle against our schizophrenic selves. One which is the soul (the real you/consciousness/could-be-Allah) and one which is the attached flesh, the beast. Listening to the "robot" beast you control too much is disastrous because you may succumb to it and reach a condition of permanency, but like Jesus said in the Biblical Gospels "separate the spirit from the flesh". And being in the image of Allah is not to be under a dictator but is actually a great relief. One should experience it.

Because of what I wrote above there are also no religions because there is no object of worship but only immerse and assimilate yourself in ONE image which is Allah, since there is just ONE constancy effect.

It is due to teachings like these our friend Jesus was blatantly murdered a couple of millennia ago. The sects could not stand his controversial ideas against their own projection of what GOD is. His most severe blasphemies according to them was "I am in the Father and the Father is in me" and when he said "You are forgiven", for who can forgive sins but GOD (according to them).
The knowledge of no separate GOD has been with people for thousands of years, but the sects silence the knowledge rapidly and they do not accept that part. This is why there is no distinct GOD entity in Buddhism because they kept a little of the teachings.

Salaam

Salam,

I agree with you to some extent, but i still find some ideas a little bit confusing to me.

I found this theory before, but i have some questions about it. If there is no existence of the God, who is gonna judge people in the day of Judgment? is the hereafter true? Who did write Quran? I read about spirituality without religion and the one wholeness and i like it, i think it related to the original Buddhist philosophy, right? I agree with you that there is no a separated creature called Satan, also i do not believe that there is supernatural creatures called Jinn. Jinn is a group of people who control their lives under cover. what do you think about that?

Regards,

Man_of_Faith

seekingthetruth,

There is a certain combined personality called 'Rabb' in Arabic (Sustainer/Foundation/Creator) which is the "platform" itself which will and can affect everything with minute control. But if a person was too shallow or too undeveloped when the day comes it is rather their condition which will bring doom upon them than it is GOD which throws them in something called Hell. Your life struggle is to enter the realm of GOD (Allah) and remaining without being let in is what is Hell basically.

The word 'Gehenna' (traditionally Hell) means to be attached to the flesh basically and this is what it refers to. Quran, even in its distorted state, mentions that they will be given new skins (bodies) and this is basically what the text refers to.

There is thus not a dogmatic dictator (GOD) sitting on a throne judging who goes in or not because it does not work this way. It is the condition of your soul which will determine where your destiny is. This is why the Arabic Quran uses S - L - M (&#1605 to refer to its adherents because it (the root) literally means soundness. The goal of a Muslim is to reach a condition of perfection of the soul. This word has been abused throughout history to induce a kind of worship of an image called Allah however which the realized person is supposed to be immersed in.

The "Hereafter" is a dissolution of the flesh, your beast body which you have and you shall be like an angel, physically bodyless. You will exist in a symbiotic state with your Creator.
Obviously speaking further details about that topic is difficult since it would mean talking about things beyond basic comprehension. Just accomplishing the first step is incredibly difficult for most people.

Hypothetically speaking, you are probably then used as angels/malekateh are used now. It is irrelevant at hand, since our own salvation here is of the essence to us.

Traditional sources say Muhammad Rasul'Allah wrote Quran. I am not sure who, but I theorize that 'Ali Ibn Abu Talib' wrote it and the spirit of 'Muhammad' dictated to him (not a specific person). This is why I believe no one is allowed to draw any image of Muhammad because it would be like drawing an image of GOD/ALLAH. I think the inclusion of Muhammad as an actual person in prayer is a misconception and ignorance whereas it was meant to be spiritually like a Muhammad.

It could be that they did it for so long they forgot why they do it (mention Muhammad) and then human conjecture got involved. The word M - Hamad means literally to be of good stature (Praiseworthy). The 'm' is just a grammatical prefix to give attribute reference in a context (ex. thereof + attribute).
A "problem" in Arabic and semitic culture (for scriptural understanding) is that people can be called standard words (their names mean things like Goodly - Hassan or Praiseworthy/goodly stature - Hamad) so it could be confusing if one can not decipher a text properly. Later scribes added symbols to distinguish between proper noun or standard noun, but nothing says they are necessarily right in their interpretation. The diacritics are not native with the text according to me but added later. They are not necessary to decipher and understand the text if you become skilled at how the language is truly intended to be read and spoken.

Religion or not religion, we are part of it rather than to make a separation of this phenomenon. Separation is called Paganism.
Jinn is a faithless person, no matter what it looks like/constitution. Faithless, in this regard, means that it is desirous and indulges in its own beastly desires. This goes hand in hand with that Satan is not a separate entity but a projection/consequence of ourselves. It was Adam's desire/temptation that made him disobey the order by The Rabb. And what lured him was something fleshly, he begun indulging in the flesh while he was not absorbed/attached to a physical beast body but that become apparent to him then.

The whole thing is an ancient parable for us to be able to relate to something. The Jann (serpent) was just the temptation, impure thought. The curse is that we have to feed on the flesh for a while in mortal bodies (beasts) and while we have to do it to sustain the animalistic body, we should only keep it alive and sound and not indulge ourselves in immense desires. That is the most important lesson in our whole faith.

This is why in the traditional sectarian doctrines why should avoid things like adultery or vain sex for that sake and adopt chastity and preferably if we were married once and our spouses die it could be advised to just remain widowed, for example. In many sectarian doctrines one should only eat the minimal amount of food and not give it unnecessary foods. There is a truth behind it. Not hoard/love money, because it is desire. Not, preferably, love any material item either.

But we should love our neighbor as ourselves because that is part of the living and GOD is Rabb of the living, and preferably love our enemy too since he may become our neighbor (in the realm).

We should honor our parents because they were our creator just as the Rabb created Adam. They gave you life, triggered it and the Holy Spirit entered you and you were being born. They did a deed of GOD.

And so on... I could preach for hours.

Regarding the etymology of Jinn. It has some misconception associated with it. The concealment is that they are blind to the desires of this world and not gifted with ability to comprehend. They could be seen as your common atheist whose perception is clearly desirous and gives in to their instincts.

But in truth the concealment connotation is because jinn covers or is the flesh itself (earth). When you are succumbed to the world then you are a jinn. You are not aware of anything else spiritual. The reason in Arabic why jannat is referring to garden is because it is a piece of land literally. The 't' is giving it substantiation. It is something that covers a surface, hence jannat, but the actual word refers to what covers it, i.e. part of the flesh/world. It has brought misconception. Jinn as individual is a worldly character.

Hope that helped in terms of inspiration.
Salaam

seekingthetruth