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  4. Why Quranism Does Not Work & Hadith Are Historically Accurate!

Why Quranism Does Not Work & Hadith Are Historically Accurate!

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
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  • A Offline
    A Offline
    abeer
    wrote on last edited by
    #44

    Hadithete Brother, if such question was posted by one of the Quranist on a Hadithete forum, he must have been murdered by now. You are not here with open and pure mind, to learn, but for the sake of argument a closed mind.

    I have been questioned by Hadithete's before and they would never consider ANY Quranic verse you give them as reference because they have already made up their minds. All Quranist always have an open mind and they are ready to listen and judge in the light of Quran.

    When Allah says Quran was given as a book in Quran, why can you even question that it was compiled after the life of Muhammad? Do you think he wasn't responsible enough?

    • This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

    Also, please go through the attachments. https//factszz.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/quranasbook.jpg?w=1016&h=1650
    https//factszz.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/hadithslies01.png?w=1118&h=750
    https//factszz.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/prophetleftbehindonlyquran.jpg?w=1041&h=2541

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    • H Offline
      H Offline
      hicham9
      wrote on last edited by
      #45

      To me, the self-authenticating 'text/writ' that we call the 'Qurn' is trustworthy and admissible . Its extremely-cogent Message is undoubtedly of Divine origin; eye-opening, firmly objective and highly functional ... further, its overall aesthetic structure sure indicates consistency and superiority ... The typical 'transcriptional (scribal) errors' in the current, prevalent version* of the Qurn seem too minor to be worth fretting over! these can be identified with ease, and should therefore be corrected (by us) ... the sooner the better.

      I bear witness that the 'Qurn' is the Messenger of G-D.

      SLM


      • 114 chapter/s 6,236 passage/s 77,797 word/s 330,709 letter/s
        The (supposed) report of (a so-called) af, attributed to (a so-called) im!
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      • M Offline
        M Offline
        Man_of_Faith
        wrote on last edited by
        #46

        Salaam,

        I tend to agree with Hicham. Quran's integrity is nearly intact and it is all additions of diacritical marks which may cause confusion, and the fact the verse numbering is hardly original since sentences and even clauses are often cut in half or worse, showing that the scribes performing the work were not fully capable of deciphering and interpreting the language. Current interpretations also show that the generated understandings and translations are based on the same incapable interpreters.

        The same (fools) who interpreted Quran also compiled so-called hadith because they contain the same interpretive errors (since they repeated the interpretation mistakes in compiling them).

        Salaam

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        • H Offline
          H Offline
          hicham9
          wrote on last edited by
          #47

          Sura 4174-175

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          • M Offline
            M Offline
            Man_of_Faith
            wrote on last edited by
            #48

            Yes. They are good passages just like the rest of Quran. Although certain words and the grammar with their traditional meaning could be discussed such as "iman/amen".

            Salaam

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            • T Offline
              T Offline
              truthseeker11
              wrote on last edited by
              #49

              Salaam Man of Faith,

              I tend to agree with Hicham. Quran's integrity is nearly intact and it is all additions of diacritical marks which may cause confusion, and the fact the verse numbering is hardly original since sentences and even clauses are often cut in half or worse, showing that the scribes performing the work were not fully capable of deciphering and interpreting the language. Current interpretations also show that the generated understandings and translations are based on the same incapable interpreters.

              The same (fools) who interpreted Quran also compiled so-called hadith because they contain the same interpretive errors (since they repeated the interpretation mistakes in compiling them).

              Unfortunately, it is not just diacritical marks or verse numbering that was corrupted. According to archeological evidence (Sanaa palimpsests), entire words and phrases were added or deleted soon after the prophet's death.

              Additionally, there is historical evidence that there were many codices of al-quran in existence soon after the death of the prophet, which had significant differences between them. According to the historical evidence, Uthman chose one of the codices arbitrarily (the codex of Zaid), and burned all the others (forensic countermeasure, destroying the evidence), and authorized that arbitrarily chosen codex to be the standard text of al-quran. This codex had significant differences and deviations from the codex of Ibn Masud, which was allegedly the most accurate of the codices.

              http//www.inthenameofallah.org/Codices%20of%20the%20Quran.html

              Confounding this matter, the Yemeni government has locked away the thousands of Sanaa manuscripts and is currently not allowing any further research on them (perhaps scared of the truth that might be uncovered). Go figure.

              The verses from the current text of al-quran cannot be presented as evidence of authenticity of the current text of al-quran, because of fallacy of circular argument.

              The only way this issue will ever be resolved, and the authenticity of the current text of al-quran established, is when the original text of al-quran written in time of the prophet will be discovered. The current text of al-quran itself requires this external evidence for verification of the truth (4153, 1736).

              I am afraid, however, that when that original quranic text will be discovered (or maybe it already has been discovered), it will meet the same fate as the Sanaa manuscripts, and will be kept under lock and key, hidden from everyone's eyes, or will be destroyed by the ones in power.

              Peace

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              • H Offline
                H Offline
                hicham9
                wrote on last edited by
                #50

                @truthseeker11, can you post/display some examples of these palimpsests (here) for us to peruse?

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                • T Offline
                  T Offline
                  truthseeker11
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #51

                  Salaam hicham9,

                  http//pl.scribd.com/mobile/doc/110978941/Sanaa-1-and-the-Origins-of-the-Qur-An

                  http//www.answering-islam.org/authors/oskar/palimpsest.html

                  http//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sana'a_manuscript

                  http//www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/soth.html

                  Keep in mind that this research is based only on 40 folios that were allowed to be studied. The rest thousands of manuscripts are being kept under lock and key by the Yemeni government and no further research is allowed on them.

                  Salaam

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                  • H Offline
                    H Offline
                    hicham9
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #52

                    G-D willing, we will retrieve the original, once l-byt is located.

                    SLM

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                    • N Offline
                      N Offline
                      noble
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #53

                      http//www.inthenameofallah.org/Codices%20of%20the%20Quran.html

                      The only way this issue will ever be resolved, and the authenticity of the current text of al-quran established, is when the original text of al-quran written in time of the prophet will be discovered. The current text of al-quran itself requires this external evidence for verification of the truth (4153, 1736).

                      I am afraid, however, that when that original quranic text will be discovered (or maybe it already has been discovered), it will meet the same fate as the Sanaa manuscripts, and will be kept under lock and key, hidden from everyone's eyes, or will be destroyed by the ones in power.

                      Peace

                      Salam,

                      Fair enough, but as is, the Quran stands pretty well on its own current merit.

                      Also the website http//www.inthenameofallah.org is pretty foul anti-Quran under the disguise of impartiality as anti-beliefs in general.

                      Besides, indeed the Saudis are currently busy bombing Yemen to remove any and all evidence if there were any.

                      Nabil
                      @inabster

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