Most beautiful Explanation of Quran only Muslims
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Once again I am not sure you are understanding what I am saying here. Spreading "conspiracy theories" may not be an act of physical violance, but quite frequently it can be considered a form of information violance. Teachings in Qur'an strongly prohibit spreading unproven and unprovable allegations and baseless assumptions. I have discussed them in several other threads, no point to renew that debate here.
If Mr Bukhari can fool 1.6 billion Muslims then anything is possible.
Here are some things you need to understand- Not all are unproven. Check http//www.infowars.com/33-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true-what-every-person-should-know/
- Many of them are not exactly theories, but news from insiders.
- Many have already lost their lives in the line of duty to bring the truth out in the open for humanity. Check https//publicconspiracy.wordpress.com/2013/03/27/mysterious-witness-deaths-related-to-911/
- Science tells us to look for patterns and most of the theories form from that. Ex Drill before false flags, stereotypes like a teen shooter is always an antisocial loon, navy officers who question the government always shoot their families and commit suicide and bombers are always Muslim. This is what conspiracy theorists focus on mainly.
- After 9/11, conspiracy theories stopped two Zionist driven terrorist attack from happening by sharing of information. Ex Olympic bombing and 9/11 kind of attack again in NY with the twin of the Malaysian plane that went missing last year. The pilots all around the world began investigating the case. Eventually they found out that a similar plane with the same registration number was standing in Tel Aviv.
- Many things are not allowed to be spoken about in the media and yes, what media shows is not always the truth.
- If conspiracy theories meant nothing neither Israel nor my American government would have hired shills to work against conspiracy theorists. Check https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpVUYGcgtjw
- If conspiracy theories were baseless there wouldn't have been a masters class dedicated completely to them. Yes, most of the ugly truth I learned from my class. Ex 1. Government can use terrorism to take away people's rights. The only thing they need to say and prove is that there will be an attack for which the people must hand over their rights for extra security. 2. The world around people isn't real, their minds are shaped by controlled media. 3. Elite theory. You can see it in action at any of the sites like ancestors.
- Quran tells us to reason and not to be sheeple.
If you ever get time try reading <a href="http//www.online-literature.com/machiavelli/prince/1/">Prince by Niccolo Machiavellil</a>
It was assigned to us for reading.
The reason why I say this is because this nasty book got a warm welcome as "public administration" text at White House during Regan era.Summary of the book
- As a political theorist, Machiavelli emphasized the occasional need for the methodical exercise of brute force or deceit including extermination of entire noble families to head off any chance of a challenge to the prince's authority.
2.Violence may be necessary for the successful stabilization of power and introduction of new legal institutions. - Force may be used to eliminate political rivals, to coerce resistant populations, and to purge the community of other men strong enough of character to rule, who will inevitably attempt to replace the ruler.http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccol%C3%B2_Machiavelli
Anyways, if you claim to follow Qur'an only and love to induldge in astrology, numerology and find glory in Jew bashing and conspiracy theories - I refuse to get into a debate with you. Suffices to say that my reading of Qur'an leads me to a path which is clearly distinct.
I thought most of the discussions of such topics contain the reasons for "bashing" and "indulgence". At least here, I havent found anyone saying "I hate jews because I feel like it". Thank you for taking your time to refuse to debate about why the kind of bashing you are talking about is wrong. This is what Allah told us to do if we can't show proper reasons for it.
Well, you 've not seen much of them, they ''ll tell you that Buhari didn't reject all Hadith. Plus they believe that until recent times, no one ever rejected Hadith. This is historical fallacy, but how many people care to verify an history that favors them?
lol, you are right. I did hear that comment of "no one rejected hadith before" several times from scholars and their followers.
Do they even try to read the history? Even the traditionalists' version about hadith books shows that Bukhari was no less than a Mossad agent.
One time, i was having i was discussing Jihad onlinie with a traditionalist who maintain that Jihad can be offensive as well as defensive. He didn't know my views on Hadith yet, hence he opened up to me. Suddenly a co-traditionalist jumped in like a troll shouting, ''don't mind him, he is a Hadith rejector, he reject Hadith!" And that was it, the former whom i was discussing with instantly fired me, exclaiming; "What! He reject the sunnah of rasuululah? " Others came in branding me satan, a non-Muslim disguising as a Muslim and you name it.
You see, there are 3 class of Muslims undermined and stigmatized in the traditional Muslim community
- A Qur'an Alone Muslim who rejects Hadith
- A Muslim woman who doesn't cover her hair.
- A Muslim who cannot recite Qur'an in Arabic.
http//www.sherv.net/cm/emo/happy/rolling-on-the-floor-laughing-smiley-emoticon.gif
It looks like the only thing they missed to bring was an exorcist. Was it that sunni forum? I read that it has been banning "Quranist" members.
I had this experience with many traditionalists, even within my family. For the fact that your nuclear family share your position on this, i see you lucky. Usually, it starts with them condemning or preaching to me, then i take my time to engage them and boom! They walk out on me in fury or resolve not to discuss any matter pertaining to religion with me anymore. I get along with intellectual, open-minded and tolerant Muslims but only few can boast of any of this from my experience.
Thanks, the last debate we had was with my uncle. He lost of course, but in the end came up with a desperate conclusion that all those who follow Quran are wahabbis.
But good news is that the belief in Quran alone is spreading. He told us how he had similar debate with another Quran follower in Virginia. He lost in that tooUnfortunate truth
1746 We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, using the Qur'an alone, they run away in aversion.Don't they ask you still, "HOW DO YOU PRAY"?
Did you ever try showing them the anti hadith verses from Quran? -
Salam Reel.
I am not against search of objective truth. But objective truth should be searched with due procedure under a judicial setting or under a peer-reviewed academic setting or at least under a peer-reviewed journalistic setting. Flooding online forums and drawing room discussions with baseless claims rejected by mainstream media, legal system and academia does not constitute as "search of objective truth".
"Governments use terrorism as an excuse to curb people's right to privacy" is no conspiracy theory - it is an open fact - even Governments would acknowledge there is a tradeoff and a careful balancing is involved. BUT, ?Zonists hijacked Malaysian planes to repeat 9/11 like attack? or ?Zonists orchestrated the Charlie Hebdo attack? easily go down the drain as nonsense and hateful conspiracy theories.
If you still do not understand what is the difference between objective search of truth and non-sense ? I challenge you to provide source and adequate evidence against the following claim of yours
Eventually they found out that a similar plane with the same registration number was standing in Tel Aviv.
Who found the plane? How was the ?same registration number? discovered? How does this observation link Zionists with hijack of Malaysian planes and planned terrorist attack? Can you bring 3 witnesses who will stand by this claim in a court of law?
If you cannot (and never will you do) then think again if such a claim is good enough justification for you to place such serious blames of plane hijack, homicide and attempted terrorist attack on another community? How would you react if someone blamed some ?Muslims? (say the pilots themselves) for planning terrorist attack based on such flimsy stories?
Then will you not fear Allah, who is our Master and their Master - who is not unjust by an atom's weight?
4148 Allah does not love the publicity of the wickedness of the statements except who has been wronged ? and Allah happens to be Listener, Knowledgeable.
(My personal translation; cross checking is recommended.)
As regards to the ?journalism? books you refer, if this is what your books are teaching you? you are welcome to put those books in your "shelf" if that pleases you; as far as I am concerned, Qur?an suffices me as a guide to refrain from spreading fabricated lies against others.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
"How do you pray?" How did you ask for something of your mother when you were a child?
Salaam
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lol, you are right. I did hear that comment of "no one rejected hadith before" several times from scholars and their followers. D
Do they even try to read the history? Even the traditionalists' version about hadith books shows that Bukhari was no less than a Mossad agent
.Well, apparently most folks hate studying and most don't appreciate historical research. The few that do, restrict themselves to only historians that appeal to their thought. Hence, we have traditionalists believing in pseudo-eschatology like "Al Mahdi", whereas history reveals that this term wasn't even known to the Muslims for about the first century of Islam.
It looks like the only thing they missed to bring was an exorcist. Was it that sunni forum? I read that it has been banning "Quranist" members.
;D ;D, they did even call me an agent of mischief. It wasn't in Sunni forum. Sunni Forum o? You wont even record 5 posts before you are banned indefinitely nope. Whether it is salafitalk forum, ummah forum, sunni forum, islamicawakening forum, ever found an online forum run by traditionalists that allow Muslims of all beliefs or schools of thoughts air their views?
I don't know if u ever tried any one of these forum before, personally i think merely reading these forum rules strongly reveals that no room is left for someone like you and me to sign up and contribute our quota. My discussion on that fateful day was in Islam section in the Religion section of a General Forum like there is in Reddit.
Thanks, the last debate we had was with my uncle. He lost of course, but in the end came up with a desperate conclusion that all those who follow Quran are wahabbis.
Poor conclusion, wahhabbis are clearly sunnis. I wonder why sunnis continue to deny their brothers who share the same books, clergy and laws with them. They have too much in common than in difference. Didn't you show him those ugly hadith that permit killing apostates, degrade women or oppress non-Muslims?
Don't they ask you still, "HOW DO YOU PRAY"?
Did you ever try showing them the anti hadith verses from Quran?To your first question, yes they still ask me how to pray but nowadays i do not see any sincerity behind that question anymore. These people do not stick with the salat details(Qur'an 17110, 721 found in the Qur'an, yet they ask for details not found in the Qur'an.
Two months ago, i was rebuked by two traditionalists for reciting my noon salat aloud, accusing me of heresy. After proving to them in vain that the Qur'an demand we recite our salat aloud without differentiating noon from dawn or night salat, i resorted to their tradition to prove myself and the contradictions in orthodox Islam. Please read the following Hadith attentively
Sahih Muslim ? The Book of Prayers ? Recitation for Zuhr and Asr
Abu Qatada reported
The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ led us in prayer and recited in the first two rak'ahs of the noon and afternoon prayers Surat al-Fitiha and two (other) surahs. And he would sometimes recite loud enough for us the verses. He would prolong the first rak'ah more than the second. And he acted similarly in the morning prayer.I presented this Hadith to them, instead of admitting the truth, they further accused me of presenting a poor translation, wrong interpretation or fabricated Hadith. Thenceforth, i gave up on them.
To your second question, of course i have shown some of them anti-hadith verses in the Qur'an. Unfortunately, some happen to be too narrow minded to consider these verses actually condemn revering other teachings outside Qur'an and so they persist on repeating lines like "obey Allah and obey the messenger".
I wish i could find more like minded Muslims, i hardly identify with traditionalists and am tired of debating these guys. Being a Qur'an only Muslim is like walking a very lonely path.
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BUT, ?Zonists hijacked Malaysian planes to repeat 9/11 like attack? or ?Zonists orchestrated the Charlie Hebdo attack? easily go down the drain as nonsense and hateful conspiracy theories.
So much love for zionists?
? I challenge you to provide source and adequate evidence against the following claim of yours
How long have you been using Internet?
https//jhaines6.wordpress.com/2014/04/23/why-is-a-twin-of-the-missing-mh370-in-a-hanger-in-israel-by-chris-bollyn/
http//nodisinfo.com/israel/
http//rense.com/general96/role.html
http//theunhivedmind.com/wordpress3/flight-mh370-in-tel-aviv/
http//www.veteranstoday.com/2014/04/26/mh370-evidence-of-false-flag/I have nothing from the wolves you wholeheartedly trust. But I have an example of how to make a fake story trust worthy right from them
http//www.jimstonefreelance.com/americanpressisanagendatool.jpgIf you cannot (and never will you do) then think again if such a claim is good enough justification for you to place such serious blames of plane hijack, homicide and attempted terrorist attack on another community? How would you react if someone blamed some ?Muslims? (say the pilots themselves) for planning terrorist attack based on such flimsy stories?
Aren't Muslims blamed every single day for such things? Didn't you keep yourself updated on Muslims+Terrorist Attack through Plane?
http//www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10700652/Malaysia-Airline-MH370-911-style-terror-allegations-resurface-in-case-of-lost-plane.htmlDidn't they already say that the pilots of the plane were suspects?
Someone points out in one of the above links that Israel was the first to go around saying "Its Iran, Its Iran, Its Iran" because two passengers in the pic are from Iran" Turned out that it was photoshopped http//www.veooz.com/photos/1H12iRb.html
If you still do not understand what is the difference between objective search of truth and non-sense
I have something special for this
Many many years ago, a bizarre book was published. The writer in it claimed that when she was a little kid church people and the rich abused her. She also claimed that these nuns and priests down the Los Angeles worshiped the satan, sacrificed humans, ate raw meat of what not, did all sorts of sexual stuffs as rituals, etc. The woman then went onto saying that she was mind controlled by her parents, our US army people, Disney and Hollywood people to become prostitute for the rich and powerful.
Do you think its nonsense?
As regards to the ?journalism? books you refer, if this is what your books are teaching you? you are welcome to put those books in your "shelf" if that pleases you; as far as I am concerned, Qur?an suffices me as a guide to refrain from spreading fabricated lies against others.
You hate it? Did you ask me why we were assigned to read the book? Was it a journalism book I said? ???
"How do you pray?" How did you ask for something of your mother when you were a child?
rotfl
Well, apparently most folks hate studying and most don't appreciate historical research. The few that do, restrict themselves to only historians that appeal to their thought.
Oops, I actually made a mistake. They say that hadith books contain the history. That closes the files of history written by other traditionalists who love Bukhari and friends like crazy.
Hence, we have traditionalists believing in pseudo-eschatology like "Al Mahdi", whereas history reveals that this term wasn't even known to the Muslims for about the first century of Islam.
I am gonna show you something...don't blame me if anything happens to you due to you laughing out like crazy after seeing this.
Here we go
Hugo Chavez (President of Venezuela) We were reviewing the verse of Quran with Ahmadinejad the other day, which says they will come back while Jesus has Mahdi's hand in his own. He (Jesus) will come together with Mahdi. The peace will be spread all over. I ask Jesus and Mahdi to hurry up and come sooner because truly the world is filled with so much danger.Watch the speech here https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTW37FxHDq8
Feel sad that before death he got very badly fooled hmm
Mahdi is creating a lot of problems. Brainwshed Association of Sunnis and Shias are desperately waiting for him. But then one time I found a group of Sunnis at a forum suspecting his credibility. The conclusion drawn was that he is gonna be THE DAJJAL .
;D ;D, they did even call me an agent of mischief. It wasn't in Sunni forum. Sunni Forum o? You wont even record 5 posts before you are banned indefinitely nope. Whether it is salafitalk forum, ummah forum, sunni forum, islamicawakening forum, ever found an online forum run by traditionalists that allow Muslims of all beliefs or schools of thoughts air their views?
I don't know if u ever tried any one of these forum before, personally i think merely reading these forum rules strongly reveals that no room is left for someone like you and me to sign up and contribute our quota. My discussion on that fateful day was in Islam section in the Religion section of a General Forum like there is in Reddit.
I didn't know that all of them are going to that extreme -. I never signed up for one, but used to read their stuffs. I must thank Sunni forum for making me turn to Quran. A debate they had with a Quran follower opened my eyes. I saw the Reddit Islamic section. Was very average. I tried only the ramadan section of Yahoo Answers. It has only few Quran followers. But some Sunnis and Shias sound smart also.
lol, I like the way you called it the "fateful" day ;D
Poor conclusion, wahhabbis are clearly sunnis. I wonder why sunnis continue to deny their brothers who share the same books, clergy and laws with them. They have too much in common than in difference. Didn't you show him those ugly hadith that permit killing apostates, degrade women or oppress non-Muslims?
In fact, the Sunnis obey majority of the wahabbi established rules. They are usually exported from Saudi Arabia. I tried telling him about the horror stuffs of hadith. But he was like this
http//www.wtv-zone.com/rosebuds/graphics/smiley/l-o/lalala3_ani.gif
The irony is that my relatives don't even follow all the hadiths. BECAUSE they may not be all accurate and binding on Muslims, they cherry pick the ones they like. My uncle does the same, but only when it comes to us he defends Bukhari and pals like a true Sunni muscleI am guessing your relatives do the same? hmm
To your first question, yes they still ask me how to pray but nowadays i do not see any sincerity behind that question anymore. These people do not stick with the salat details(Qur'an 17110, 721 found in the Qur'an, yet they ask for details not found in the Qur'an.
I suppose in their mind, the question is some kind of safety net. But I enjoy the "international" combat kit they made against us. It screams " you didn't read Quran". But I love the question Is cross dressing allowed in Islam?" Its funny that specifically for this one the traditionalists focus on the western pants. They elude that middle eastern gowns look the same for both men and women.
Two months ago, i was rebuked by two traditionalists for reciting my noon salat aloud, accusing me of heresy. After proving to them in vain that the Qur'an demand we recite our salat aloud without differentiating noon from dawn or night salat, i resorted to their tradition to prove myself and the contradictions in orthodox Islam. Please read the following Hadith attentively
Quote
Sahih Muslim ? The Book of Prayers ? Recitation for Zuhr and Asr
Abu Qatada reported
The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ led us in prayer and recited in the first two rak'ahs of the noon and afternoon prayers Surat al-Fitiha and two (other) surahs. And he would sometimes recite loud enough for us the verses. He would prolong the first rak'ah more than the second. And he acted similarly in the morning prayer.I presented this Hadith to them, instead of admitting the truth, they further accused me of presenting a poor translation, wrong interpretation or fabricated Hadith. Thenceforth, i gave up on them.
Actually, they have started a new trend of excuses to justify hadiths by saying that we present them poor translations and that some silly hadiths are "metaphorical". Its same as "treating" hadiths like Quran verses which they intentionally twisted to hide their original meanings. But recently, I have come across new findings according to which plenty of hadiths are inventions of Bukhari. The guy was heavily controversial during his time. Even the traditionalists hated him. I am currently trying to verify all the sources. When I am done I will post the info on this forum under hadith section. But yeah, excuse of poor translation is currently a weapon they are using on us. In a situation like this show them the gruesome hadiths which they are using on Muslims and ask them whether they are sure that they are translated properly.
To your second question, of course i have shown some of them anti-hadith verses in the Qur'an. Unfortunately, some happen to be too narrow minded to consider these verses actually condemn revering other teachings outside Qur'an and so they persist on repeating lines like "obey Allah and obey the messenger".
I wish i could find more like minded Muslims, i hardly identify with traditionalists and am tired of debating these guys. Being a Qur'an only Muslim is like walking a very lonely path.
I feel your pain, mate. Some people are fully lost. They abandoned Quran anyways. The way some sectarians mock it is shocking. If they don't want to at least ponder upon what we show to them there is nothing we can do. Yes, its a lonely path, but gradually, I suppose the dawn is coming. I just hope this doesn't get violently stopped by the traditionalists.
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Salam Reel.
You believe locating an old recycled malaysian airlines aircraft in a country is sufficient ground for you to blame that country for homicide of hundreds of people for missing Malaysian airline planes! And you are trying to defend yourself! Bravo!
I neither trust the propaganda machine of the Israel, nor against Israel. Allah has given me my senses to differentiate between fact and speculation and I trust them. And I refrain from taking part in any blame game based on speculations and conjecture.
It is more than possible that a certain quarter of Israeli / Zionist club has resorted to propaganda and fabrication to preserve what they call their "national interest". It is a shame for our generation that spreading propaganda has now-a-days become a fashionable hallmark of "diplomatic intelligence" for almost all countries! But resorting to counter propaganda is not and cannot be an ethical response to that. ESPECIALLY not from a Qur'anic point of view. And those who indulge in this dirty game, I'll call them neither Quranist nor righteous.
There is clearly a gulf of difference between my idea of objectivity and that of yours. If Prophet Abraham had your sense of objectivity, when the malaikah informed him that Allah decided to destroy the people of Lot, he would have said, "There you go - I long suspected those morons were stealing from my herds" laugh
At this point I may have failed to convince you - but I pray to Allah that one day you'd come to the realization of the evils of this dirty game. Until then, for you is your resolution, for me is mine.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Here we go
Hugo Chavez (President of Venezuela) We were reviewing the verse of Quran with Ahmadinejad the other day, which says they will come back while Jesus has Mahdi's hand in his own. He (Jesus) will come together with Mahdi. The peace will be spread all over. I ask Jesus and Mahdi to hurry up and come sooner because truly the world is filled with so much danger. Watch the speech here https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTW37FxHDq8laugh Hmm...., so long. You know, it unbelievable that even though Qur'an have existed for over 1000 years many people still remain ignorant about it words, attributing issues that like Mahdi to it. Of course we can forgive Mr. President since he isn't even Muslim, after all we have Muslims attributing issues like stoning to death, killing apostates/blasphemers, prohibition of art/animation to the Qur'an.
Mahdi is creating a lot of problems. Brainwashed Association of Sunnis and Shias are desperately waiting for him. But then one time I found a group of Sunnis at a forum suspecting his credibility. The conclusion drawn was that he is gonna be THE DAJJAL .
Yeah, and this Mahdi has been invoked fruitlessly all through Muslim history. Mahdi is traceable to the Abbasid revolution, a propaganda fabricated by pro-Abbasid Arabs to serve the political goal of the revolution. Traditionalists believe that the Mahdi will arrive when the Muslim world is faced with with severe turmoil and oppression. That is why during the First World War, the Ottoman Turks invoked Mahdi, the Arabs did the same during the Soviet-Afghan war in the 80's. Today, ISIS Militants have also invoked the Mahdi.
You should search for the Ahadith on "Black flags from Khorasan or the East". Seen some of them?
I didn't know that all of them are going to that extreme -. I never signed up for one, but used to read their stuffs. I must thank Sunni forum for making me turn to Quran. A debate they had with a Quran follower opened my eyes. I saw the Reddit Islamic section. Was very average. I tried only the ramadan section of Yahoo Answers. It has only few Quran followers. But some Sunnis and Shias sound smart also.
Well, i got to admit i never signed up for any of those forums either, though i find myself now and then reading their stuff directed to me by Google search. I 've read their forum rules, and i find the level of censorship too intolerable. I believe in this forum we allow sectarians to preach, proselytize, condemn us as they feel. On the flip side is this reciprocated in those forums? I doubt that.
For the Ramadan section on Yahoo Answers, i got a bad impression on my first Question. There seem to be this element of hostility toward critics of Traditional Islam or Muslims. Here, check out my Question and see the level of hate, double discourse and irrationality displayed by those responding https//answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20141127012839AAdmCkb#
Haven't seen much of Reddit Islam section, but the last time i checked, it seem entrenched in orthodoxy, that is red flag for me.
I do not paint all Sunnis with one brush, i respect persons like Qanta Ahmed, Tarek Fatah, Khalid Abou El Fadl, Maajid Nawaz, Zuhdi Jasser or Raheel Raza for their liberal stance on Islam and voice against Islamism even though i disagree with their stance on Hadith. You "ll love these people, but a lot of traditionalists treat them with contempt and disdain.
The irony is that my relatives don't even follow all the hadiths. BECAUSE they may not be all accurate and binding on Muslims, they cherry pick the ones they like. My uncle does the same, but only when it comes to us he defends Bukhari and pals like a true Sunni muscle. I am guessing your relatives do the same?
With all the discrepancies and absurdities in Hadith Books, who among the traditionalists wouldn't cherry pick Hadith? Bukhari himself had to cherry pick. For instance, my brother in law is a typical Sunni who i have debate on authority of Hadith. He defend Hadith like stoning adulterers, yet he doesn't wear even a beard as Hadith dictate, why? In the course of our debates, i started wondering if this fella was right for my elder sister because at a point, he repeatedly credited Muhammad Ibn Abdulwahab(Founder of Wahhabism) defending all the violence and bloodshed spearheaded by this Imam in establishing the Saudi state.
I suppose in their mind, the question is some kind of safety net. But I enjoy the "international" combat kit they made against us. It screams " you didn't read Quran". But I love the question Is cross dressing allowed in Islam?" Its funny that specifically for this one the traditionalists focus on the western pants. They elude that middle eastern gowns look the same for both men and women.
yes, that combat kit is so poor that i didn't even bother reading it word for word. They seem to enjoy being on the offense. When the time is right we will prepare our combat kit against them. D D
Actually, they have started a new trend of excuses to justify hadiths by saying that we present them poor translations and that some silly hadiths are "metaphorical". Its same as "treating" hadiths like Quran verses which they intentionally twisted to hide their original meanings. But recently, I have come across new findings according to which plenty of hadiths are inventions of Bukhari. The guy was heavily controversial during his time. Even the traditionalists hated him. I am currently trying to verify all the sources. When I am done I will post the info on this forum under hadith section.
That "ll be a powerful presentation, can't miss on that. Am also working on a historical essay that will cover several subjects like Dhimmis, Khawarij, Muhammad 's literay Hadith origins e.t.c. I 'll be posting once am done.
But yeah, excuse of poor translation is currently a weapon they are using on us. In a situation like this show them the gruesome hadiths which they are using on Muslims and ask them whether they are sure that they are translated properly.
U r right. It is a wacky excuse in all honesty. I get my translation from their sites like Sunnah.com. Plus, i never post a weak Hadith, come on, that will weaken my argument. Sunnah.com does present all the Hadith in the six main sunni Hadith Books, well referenced with their grading. I highly recommend for whoever want to study hadith literature.
I feel your pain, mate. Some people are fully lost. They abandoned Quran anyways. The way some sectarians mock it is shocking. If they don't want to at least ponder upon what we show to them there is nothing we can do. Yes, its a lonely path, but gradually, I suppose the dawn is coming. I just hope this doesn't get violently stopped by the traditionalists.
Violence may delay the Qur'an alone movement but cannot stop it. They may hack or block our websites, burn or ban our publications, persecute or outlaw our groups like they did in Egypt but it only serve as extra proof of their fallacy. The pen is mightier than the sword.
Think about this, they have all the international organizations, universities, mosques, scholars, petrol-dollars, media and population on their side. With all these, they cannot face us academically and still have to resort to force, sometimes death threats or even persecution.
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Salam Reel.
You believe locating an old recycled malaysian airlines aircraft in a country is sufficient ground for you to blame that country for homicide of hundreds of people for missing Malaysian airline planes! And you are trying to defend yourself! Bravo!
I was gone for two days. You had plenty of time to research. It doesn't seem like you even read anything from the links I provided. But it is quite interesting that you call the so called "killed in crash" a homicide. hmm
I neither trust the propaganda machine of the Israel, nor against Israel. Allah has given me my senses to differentiate between fact and speculation and I trust them. And I refrain from taking part in any blame game based on speculations and conjecture.
It is more than possible that a certain quarter of Israeli / Zionist club has resorted to propaganda and fabrication to preserve what they call their "national interest". It is a shame for our generation that spreading propaganda has now-a-days become a fashionable hallmark of "diplomatic intelligence" for almost all countries!
When did you land on this planet? Propaganda is not new. Even the kings of ancient time used it.
But resorting to counter propaganda is not and cannot be an ethical response to that. ESPECIALLY not from a Qur'anic point of view. And those who indulge in this dirty game, I'll call them neither Quranist nor righteous.
So you have taken up the responsibility to decide who is righteous? Its good that you do not use the word Quranist for them. It creates another sect anyways. Conspiracy theorists use heavy logic to counter propaganda. They don't go around blaming people for pleasure.
There is clearly a gulf of difference between my idea of objectivity and that of yours. If Prophet Abraham had your sense of objectivity, when the malaikah informed him that Allah decided to destroy the people of Lot, he would have said, "There you go - I long suspected those morons were stealing from my herds" laugh
Umm, but if we use your logic we find that even prophet Ibrahim wasn't "righeous" either since he tried to brainstorm who could have been Allah.
6 75 to 80 when Ibrahim said to his uncle, Azar, ?Do you take idols for gods? Surely I see you and your people in manifest error.? Thus We were showing Ibrahim the kingdom of the heavens and the earth so that he might be of (al-muqinin) those who are sure .
So when the night outspread over Ibrahim, he saw a star; he said, ?This is my Lord.? But when the star set he said, ? I do not like the transitory .?
when he saw the moon rising, he said, ?This is my Lord.? But when the moon set he said, ?If my Lord had not guided me, then I shall surely be of (adh-dhaliyn) the people who have gone astray.?
when Ibrahim saw the sun rising, he said, ?This must be my Lord this is greater ? But when the sun set, he said, ?O my people, surely I am free from what you associate I have sincerely turned myself to Him who originated the heavens and the earth, and I am not one of the polytheists.?
At this point I may have failed to convince you - but I pray to Allah that one day you'd come to the realization of the evils of this dirty game. Until then, for you is your resolution, for me is mine.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanSo you came to "convince" me? D
That was the line I was waiting for. By the way, I have no wish to change your view. I was only trying to imply that you need to keep an open mind. No, you can't convince me. If I start to "follow" your path I will be thrown out of Masters program and will never have a career. I am one of those getting trained to separate truth from falsehood. If you feel you are right about Zionists enjoy the blood on your hands.
Israel Lobbyist suggests False Flag attack to start war with IranAnd by the way, there is no difference between Al Qaida and Zionists because officially both are extremists
Zionism
laugh Hmm...., so long. You know, it unbelievable that even though Qur'an have existed for over 1000 years many people still remain ignorant about it words, attributing issues that like Mahdi to it. Of course we can forgive Mr. President since he isn't even Muslim, after all we have Muslims attributing issues like stoning to death, killing apostates/blasphemers, prohibition of art/animation to the Qur'an.
Man, its very shocking that the Muslims don't take the time to realize how both of the issues you raised are absurd. Kill the exMuslim just because he declared openly that he doesn't believe in Islam? What about those who have the same feeling about Allah, but do not talk about it? How can you force someone to "believe"? And even if forced, will the person believe right from the heart? He will just act like he is Muslim. He won't be able to hide it from Allah.
Some people take that "art is haram" to a great extreme. I know someone who hasn't made government ID and passport because they don't want to commit "sin" by having their photo taken. I once did raise the issue with the entire art is haram thing. I asked to traditionalists how they would find a missing person or a dangerous criminal without photos. They said "photos can be used in some cases". And according to Zakir Naik, they are fully okay because we aren't "drawing them by hands". But umm, we do use our hands to click the button to take them, don't we?
Yeah, and this Mahdi has been invoked fruitlessly all through Muslim history. Mahdi is traceable to the Abbasid revolution, a propaganda fabricated by pro-Abbasid Arabs to serve the political goal of the revolution. Traditionalists believe that the Mahdi will arrive when the Muslim world is faced with with severe turmoil and oppression. That is why during the First World War, the Ottoman Turks invoked Mahdi, the Arabs did the same during the Soviet-Afghan war in the 80's. Today, ISIS Militants have also invoked the Mahdi.
You should search for the Ahadith on "Black flags from Khorasan or the East". Seen some of them?
Wow, I had no idea about Mr Mahadi being propaganda from Abbasid revolution. What else do you have about it? I am interested. Yep, read about black flag guys being army against dajjal. Oh dang, Baghdadi missed the opportunity to name himself Mahadi. Israel should have created the crisis in Afghanistan. Then he would have got support from the sectarians. Hadith would have purely supported him
"If you see the Black Banners coming from Khurasan go to them immediately, even if you must crawl over ice, because indeed amongst them is the Caliph, Al Mahdi."For the Ramadan section on Yahoo Answers, i got a bad impression on my first Question. There seem to be this element of hostility toward critics of Traditional Islam or Muslims. Here, check out my Question and see the level of hate, double discourse and irrationality displayed by those responding https//answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20141127012839AAdmCkb#
I checked the answers. I am familiar with the users who gave them. What the hell is this?
No. Islam does not kill apostates for leaving the faith. It kills traitors and criminals who try to leave the faith to escape punishment or attempt to claim asylum elsewhere. ???
But majority of them are just "talking". If you go to their other answers you will see they don't abide by what they are saying.The person who wrote "1. Does Islam grant everyone freedom of beliefs?" - Yes, you can believe whatever you want. BUT there will be implications for your choice. once was telling a new convert to leave their spouse by saying it is in Islam for Muslims to divorce their nonMuslim husband or wife.
I do not paint all Sunnis with one brush, i respect persons like Qanta Ahmed, Tarek Fatah, Khalid Abou El Fadl, Maajid Nawaz, Zuhdi Jasser or Raheel Raza for their liberal stance on Islam and voice against Islamism even though i disagree with their stance on Hadith. You "ll love these people, but a lot of traditionalists treat them with contempt and disdain.
Nay, I don't find scholars interesting especially when they don't question the authenticity of hadiths while portraying themselves as liberal. I can't take that "moderate" and liberal Muslim" thing seriously at all mate. We are either rational or irrational Muslim. I really wonder what traditionalists mean when they say Qanta Ahmed's support for Israel is connected to liberal Muslim thing. Here in California, plenty of people, universities and public schools are against Israel. But they are not even Muslim.
That "ll be a powerful presentation, can't miss on that. Am also working on a historical essay that will cover several subjects like Dhimmis, Khawarij, Muhammad 's literay Hadith origins e.t.c. I 'll be posting once am done.
Don't forget to oost it to hadith section. It would be easy to find it. But certain names of early traditionalists are pretty difficult for MS word to take. Some letters turn into weird characters. I am having a lot of problem with that.
that combat kit is so poor that i didn't even bother reading it word for word. They seem to enjoy being on the offense. When the time is right we will prepare our combat kit against them. D
I can't wait for it. Someone made 40 questions against hadiths. No one has answered them yet. I'll tell you, those people will just pretend like they didn't see our questions at all.
Violence may delay the Qur'an alone movement but cannot stop it. They may hack or block our websites, burn or ban our publications, persecute or outlaw our groups like they did in Egypt but it only serve as extra proof of their fallacy. The pen is mightier than the sword.
Think about this, they have all the international organizations, universities, mosques, scholars, petrol-dollars, media and population on their side. With all these, they cannot face us academically and still have to resort to force, sometimes death threats or even persecution.
Yeah, true, but they truly show how nothing has changed. You still get punished for believing in one and only Allah. lol, that somehow makes evolution incorrect P
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I was gone for two days. You had plenty of time to research. It doesn't seem like you even read anything from the links I provided.
Salam Reel.
Since I am so pathetically weak in performing research why don't you help me by explaining just one word from your wise remarks
Eventually they found out that a similar plane with the same registration number was standing in Tel Aviv.
The registration number of the plane found in Tel Aviv was same to what? and How does that support your argument?
Per my humble understanding the links that you shared are claiming that an old malaysian airlines plane with registration number of N105GT was sold to Airlines GA Telesis in 2013 - and some of your brilliant journalists friends spotted that plane in Tel Aviv. Based on this observation you and your friends are concluding
- Zionists hijacked and crashed two Malaysian Airlines plane.
- They were planning 9/11 like terrorist attacks with the GA Telesis plane.
Am I missing something? The question remains, what did you mean by "same registration number"? hmm
Convincing you was part of my goal - but my larger goal was to make other potential readers of this discussion aware of the dangers of participating in blind blame game. Not all the readers are keen to earn masters degree in propaganda - some are genuinely interested to seek guidance from Qur'an.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Can you explain to me why I can't view this page anymore?
http//www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/777/28416,N105GT-GA-Telesis-php
But the missing plane one remains?
http//www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/777/28420,9M-MRO-Malaysia-Airlines.phpI can even see the page of a scrapped plane http//www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Airbus/A300/001,F-OCAZ-Airbus-Industrie.php
But not the one from Tel Aviv?Want to know about how plane twins are used? Learn it from my government
http//nsarchive.gwu.edu/news/20010430/northwoods.pdfMay Israel Bless You
peace -
Wow, do I see someone hitting arund the bush? Let me repeat my question to you...
Since I am so pathetically weak in performing research why don't you help me by explaining just one word from your wise remarks
Eventually they found out that a similar plane with the same registration number was standing in Tel Aviv.
The registration number of the plane found in Tel Aviv was same to what? and how does that support your argument?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salam Reel.
Since I am so pathetically weak in performing research why don't you help me by explaining just one word from your wise remarks
The registration number of the plane found in Tel Aviv was same to what? and How does that support your argument?
Per my humble understanding the links that you shared are claiming that an old malaysian airlines plane with registration number of N105GT was sold to Airlines GA Telesis in 2013 - and some of your brilliant journalists friends spotted that plane in Tel Aviv. Based on this observation you and your friends are concluding
- Zionists hijacked and crashed two Malaysian Airlines plane.
- They were planning 9/11 like terrorist attacks with the GA Telesis plane.
Am I missing something? The question remains, what did you mean by "same registration number"? hmm
Convincing you was part of my goal - but my larger goal was to make other potential readers of this discussion aware of the dangers of participating in blind blame game. Not all the readers are keen to earn masters degree in propaganda - some are genuinely interested to seek guidance from Qur'an.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanBlind blame game for some people is only good if directed against the defenceless, Palestine, for instance. When directed against the powerful it is absolutely obnoxious and evil and confounds people. Who should be good sheep and not stray off the herd.
I would like to see some of those good sheep defending the official version of the arson of the Reichstag. No, in fact I wouldn't, but I do not doubt that they would have defended it. The basic principle is to be observed is that Might is reason, but of course, properly dressed in pious and meaningless blabber about peace, non violence and all those ever so sublime things that the oppressors preach to the oppressed and which they never follow themselves.
Salaam
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Wow, do I see someone hitting arund the bush? Let me repeat my question to you...
Since I am so pathetically weak in performing research why don't you help me by explaining just one word from your wise remarks
The registration number of the plane found in Tel Aviv was same to what? and how does that support your argument?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanDid you check how planes are used in false flag attacks? I gave you link to Operation Northwoods. Did you read it? The answer you are looking for is right over there. I already answered last week about 9/11 kind of attack whose obvious target was us, Americans. Since I am no Mossad agent I don't know how they wanted to do it. You might now ask why they didn't use the missing airline to do the same. The answer to it is that it couldn't just fly across the countries without getting caught in the radar. And do remember that the plane was bought by a company from FLORIDA and that happens to be a STATE from UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. So instead of keeping it here why on earth they sent it to Israel where it was never used for flying? Why journalist Christopher B didn't get a response from the company VP Rebecca C. L when he emailed her asking similar question? Third, why make a fake press release about the Israeli one? http//www.abeldanger.net/2014/08/the-mh370-cover-up-ga-telesis.html
Do you have answers for these questions?
Blind blame game for some people is only good if directed against the defenceless, Palestine, for instance. When directed against the powerful it is absolutely obnoxious and evil and confounds people. Who should be good sheep and not stray off the herd.
I would like to see some of those good sheep defending the official version of the arson of the Reichstag. No, in fact I wouldn't, but I do not doubt that they would have defended it. The basic principle is to be observed is that Might is reason, but of course, properly dressed in pious and meaningless blabber about peace, non violence and all those ever so sublime things that the oppressors preach to the oppressed and which they never follow themselves.
Salaam
Salam Sis Huruf,
One of the biggest problems with sheeples is that they tend to think that for a story to be true it must be believed by the majority and of course, mentioned by the media. Most interesting thing, however, is their deceptive method of using endless questions to bring down the truth, doubts and dots acquired and displayed by the minority about the media driven parasitic stories. Why i call this deceptive? Because we are online and there is something called GOOGLE. When confronted by alternative stories they behave like it doesn't exist. But you will notice that even during the debate they don't go into explaining why they think the parasitic stories are correct. They keep it all under the wrap by the deception of questioning. I am very much used to seeing this. You will find plenty of sheeples using the method under the videos of 9/11 inside job.peace
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Did you check how planes are used in false flag attacks? (1) I gave you link to Operation Northwoods. Did you read it? (2) The answer you are looking for is right over there. I already answered last week about 9/11 kind of attack whose obvious target was us, Americans. Since I am no Mossad agent I don't know how they wanted to do it. You might now ask why they didn't use the missing airline to do the same. The answer to it is that it couldn't just fly across the countries without getting caught in the radar. And do remember that the plane was bought by a company from FLORIDA and that happens to be a STATE from UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. So instead of keeping it here why on earth they sent it to Israel where it was never used for flying? (3) Why journalist Christopher B didn't get a response from the company VP Rebecca C. L when he emailed her asking similar question? (4) Third, why make a fake press release about the Israeli one? (5) http//www.abeldanger.net/2014/08/the-mh370-cover-up-ga-telesis.html
Do you have answers for these questions? (6)Salam Sis Huruf,
One of the biggest problems with sheeples is that they tend to think that for a story to be true it must be believed by the majority and of course, mentioned by the media. Most interesting thing, however, is their deceptive method of using endless questions to bring down the truth, doubts and dots acquired and displayed by the minority about the media driven parasitic stories. Why i call this deceptive? Because we are online and there is something called GOOGLE. When confronted by alternative stories they behave like it doesn't exist. But you will notice that even during the debate they don't go into explaining why they think the parasitic stories are correct. They keep it all under the wrap by the deception of questioning. I am very much used to seeing this. You will find plenty of sheeples using the method under the videos of 9/11 inside job.peace
rotfl
Who is playing the game of asking endless questions is more than obvious in the above example.
I have only one question for you... asking for the third time... not what Israel did or Malaysia did... my question is what you yourself meant with the word "same" in the below statement
Eventually they found out that a similar plane with the same registration number was standing in Tel Aviv.
The registration number of the plane found in Tel Aviv was same to what?
If you think some link that you shared already explains what "same" means here... let's say I am naive and stupid.. I did not get it... I would like you to directly answer this. Hope it is not too much for asking clarification of your own statement.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Did you check how planes are used in false flag attacks? I gave you link to Operation Northwoods. Did you read it? The answer you are looking for is right over there. I already answered last week about 9/11 kind of attack whose obvious target was us, Americans. Since I am no Mossad agent I don't know how they wanted to do it. You might now ask why they didn't use the missing airline to do the same. The answer to it is that it couldn't just fly across the countries without getting caught in the radar. And do remember that the plane was bought by a company from FLORIDA and that happens to be a STATE from UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. So instead of keeping it here why on earth they sent it to Israel where it was never used for flying? Why journalist Christopher B didn't get a response from the company VP Rebecca C. L when he emailed her asking similar question? Third, why make a fake press release about the Israeli one? http//www.abeldanger.net/2014/08/the-mh370-cover-up-ga-telesis.html
Do you have answers for these questions?
Salam Sis Huruf,
One of the biggest problems with sheeples is that they tend to think that for a story to be true it must be believed by the majority and of course, mentioned by the media. Most interesting thing, however, is their deceptive method of using endless questions to bring down the truth, doubts and dots acquired and displayed by the minority about the media driven parasitic stories. Why i call this deceptive? Because we are online and there is something called GOOGLE. When confronted by alternative stories they behave like it doesn't exist. But you will notice that even during the debate they don't go into explaining why they think the parasitic stories are correct. They keep it all under the wrap by the deception of questioning. I am very much used to seeing this. You will find plenty of sheeples using the method under the videos of 9/11 inside job.peace
Yes, they round you up by putting it up to you to bring a full theory or proofs of everything that it has been done any way they fancy you think it was done and forget very conviently that in fact people, questioning people do not have to bring up proof of anything at all, because it is the state adminsitration, the "rulers" who command all the budgets for the purpose those who should do that job, and the ruled do not have neither those means nor that power nor have bought the press for themselves, and the only thing the ruled ones have to do to demand that justice be done is to point the flaws or indeed the impossibility that what their authorities say happenned CANNOT HAVE HAPPENNED.
And indeed the 911 events CANNOT HAVE HAPPENED the way we were told by the authorities. THE LAWS OF PHYSICS FORBIT IT. Many other laws forbid it too, but, the point was not to convince people of the truth of such nonsense but to convince the people that their part in life is to asent and consent to anythying that is imposed on them, and forget about anything making sense. That was clear looking at oily Tony Blair with a big oily smile conceding that he had lied but that that was the way things are.
Therefore, if you cannot fight them, join them... Seems to be the moto for some people. What is more revolting is that for that they put up big morals grandstandings attempting to manipulate the guilty complex which most people tend to have. And most of the time, they have it very easy.
Salaam
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Sorry for any delay, had trouble in gathering as much evidence as i wanted on the Mahdi Issue. I have been able to come up with leads though, they all connect to the rabbit hole.
Some people take that "art is haram" to a great extreme. I know someone who hasn't made government ID and passport because they don't want to commit "sin" by having their photo taken. I once did raise the issue with the entire art is haram thing. I asked to traditionalists how they would find a missing person or a dangerous criminal without photos. They said "photos can be used in some cases". And according to Zakir Naik, they are fully okay because we aren't "drawing them by hands". But umm, we do use our hands to click the button to take them, don't we?
See? That is clear example of cherry picking Hadith. Most sectarians realize if they were to keep this Hadith, they can't have TV in their homes or even family photos in their smartphones, hence they quietly by-passed the Hadith. Ironically, these same sectarians will write me off for owning a flute. This puritan, self-righteous mindset among sectarians is unhealthy.
Wow, I had no idea about Mr Mahadi being propaganda from Abbasid revolution. What else do you have about it? I am interested. Yep, read about black flag guys being army against dajjal.
First, Mahdi as a prophesy was unknown to Muslims for about the first century of Islam, you can start with Wikipedia. If Mahdi was a true Islamic prophesy that we are still awaiting, no event in the past would match it before it is fulfilled. This is not the case with this prophesy.
Sometime during the oppressive century-long period of Umayyad rule, the idea of a messianic Mahdi became popular amongst rival Alid and Abbasids (descendants of Ali and Abbas, respectively) and their supporters. Abbasid propaganda in favour of their eventual overthrow of Umayyad rule included many references to the Mahdi, including fabricated hadiths claiming him as an Abbasid in response to the widespread view of him being Alid.
There is so much in common between the Hadith on Mahdi and events during the Abbasid revolution. The Abbasid fighters raised black flags or banners, and starting with overthrow of the Omayyad governors, the Abbasid built their rebellion from Khorasan spreading the revolution to the rest of the empire. They claimed legitimacy to power by declaring to be descendant of Muhammad. Several Hadith on Mahdi speaks of an army from Syria mounting against him. Why Syria? Because the capital of the Ummayad Empire was Damascus, Syria. The first Abbasid caliph, adopted the title "Al Saffah"(The Generous), this was one of the alternate names of the Mahdi. He was even addressed directly as "Al Mahdi" by his poet.
https//books.google.com.ng/books?id=QJU3AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA1232&lpg=PA1232&dq=expedition+of+Kalb&source=bl&ots=5uWTruPDyu&sig=kINeNgLfrc7KhUu_xhYyI7BfeVg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=grlAVcePKYTpaOmUgLgD&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=expedition%20of%20Kalb&f=false
That is just the tip of the iceberg, there is so much that have been swept under the rug. Eventually, you realize that the Hadith prophesying the Mahdi were either fabricated during the Abbasid revolution or after it in order to lend credit to the claim of the Abbasid.
Oh dang, Baghdadi missed the opportunity to name himself Mahadi. Israel should have created the crisis in Afghanistan. Then he would have got support from the sectarians. Hadith would have purely supported him
"If you see the Black Banners coming from Khurasan go to them immediately, even if you must crawl over ice, because indeed amongst them is the Caliph, Al Mahdi."Don't be so sure, ISIS already invoked the Mahdi. Several Hadith on the descent of the Mahdi also foretells an army from Syria mounting against him. With black flags, from the East and Asaad and his military mounting against them, ISIS consider themselves fulfilling a prophesy with Asaad as the Dajjal and perhaps Baghdadi as the Mahdi. Hey, do you even know that Baghdadi claims lineage lineage to Muhammad 's Family?
I checked the answers. I am familiar with the users who gave them. What the hell is this?
No. Islam does not kill apostates for leaving the faith. It kills traitors and criminals who try to leave the faith to escape punishment or attempt to claim asylum elsewhere. ???
But majority of them are just "talking". If you go to their other answers you will see they don't abide by what they are saying.Their answers were deceptive or ignorant at best. I wanted to see the caliber of Muslims we have in that section, so i decided putting them to test. For instance, i asked them if Islam ordains moderation when punishing criminals and they all responded affirmatively. Next, i asked them if Islam rules amputation for theft and they all accepted that as the penalty for theft. How in the the name of God is amputating a thief 's limb for stealing a bicycle a moderate penalty and not excessive or overkill?
Sectarians pay attention to every petty law that the clergy dictate, consequently neglecting moral principles like Justice, moderation, objectivity or accountability outlined in the Qur'an.
Nay, I don't find scholars interesting especially when they don't question the authenticity of hadiths while portraying themselves as liberal. I can't take that "moderate" and liberal Muslim" thing seriously at all mate. We are either rational or irrational Muslim.
All right, what do you think of Khalid Abou El Fadl? He is the only sectarian scholar that managed to intrigue me so far. It takes a lot for a scholar to come out openly and question the authenticity of Hadith. You know what it resulted for Rashad Khalifa, Ahmed Subhy Mansur, Edip Yuksel or Kassim Ahmed.
Additionally, Qur'an alone isn't a well known yet. We still have a lot to do in spreading the message. And there is a lot to learn on stumbling upon it, if you are unwilling to think outside the box, you ''ll ignore or mock it as most sectarians and even non-Muslims do. The first time i encountered Qur'an alone idea was online but i overlooked it unaware that it present the most rational, noble and beautiful message interpretaion of Islam.
Then, like most traditionalists i was ignorant of terrible teachings from Tafsir and Hadith books. As a sectarian overridden with guilt for not growing my beard, not fasting twice weekly, letting my trousers beyond my ankles, listening to music e.t.c, months later, i decided to download Sahih Bukhari, read and comply with the Hadith for good. In short, ironically, this only culminated in my eventual disillusion with Hadith and reform to Qur'an alone.
I really wonder what traditionalists mean when they say Qanta Ahmed's support for Israel is connected to liberal Muslim thing. Here in California, plenty of people, universities and public schools are against Israel. But they are not even Muslim.
As long as you stand for the two state solution and condemn the theocratic, tyrannic regimes in the Middle East as well as the Islamist ideology of of Hamas, it is hard not to sympathize with Israel. Support for Israel is not synonymous to support for all her massacre of Palestinians and occupation of their land. On the flip side, as u implied, support for Israel is not even a sure sign of liberalism. I regard Qanta Ahmed a liberal Muslim due to her secular, democratic and Islamic reformist views.
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I really wonder what traditionalists mean when they say Qanta Ahmed's support for Israel is connected to liberal Muslim thing. Here in California, plenty of people, universities and public schools are against Israel. But they are not even Muslim.
Which is exactly the reason to why non-Muslims can become BETTER than Muslims. Qanta Ahmed's opinion is just as backward as the opinion of an American apologist making excuses for American warcrimes. I live in Sweden and many non-Muslims support Palestine while idiotic 'Muslims' probaly support either Israel or an Islamic State.
This is the reason to why I'm not bound to respect other Muslims. Indeed any Muslim opposing the state of Palestine can go to hell. Any Muslim that supports the Islamic State can go to hell too. Islam is indeed filled with idiots and sadly anybody can convert to Islam. Anybody can consider themselves a Muslim and then give the religion a terrible name. Should we care? Nope. Not at all. Let these morons consider themselves Muslims. Their religion is irrelevant. If they oppose the Arab countries then I as a Muslim definently support the Arab world in retaliating against these morons. Islam should be removed from state too.
You should look at South-Asia the amount of billions of dollars that flows to the region. It is only flowing to the enemies of Arab nationalism. Both Islamists and Pro-Israelies who do not deserve these funds. Send these funds to the Iraqi people as they are becoming refugees because of the sh'tty Islamic State that is massacring Iraqis, Syrians and Kurds. Do not send billions of dollars to India or Afghanistan but spend them on the Arab nations is what the Arab leaders should do. Sadly because these nations are somehow considered 'Muslim' they are given these billions of dollars. My point is that Muslims are being valued over others which is totally wrong. As proven Islam contains a lot of morons and Muslims in the Arab countries should not be given special privileges.
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As long as you stand for the two state solution and condemn the theocratic, tyrannic regimes in the Middle East as well as the Islamist ideology of of Hamas, it is hard not to sympathize with Israel. Support for Israel is not synonymous to support for all her massacre of Palestinians and occupation of their land. On the flip side, as u implied, support for Israel is not even a sure sign of liberalism. I regard Qanta Ahmed a liberal Muslim due to her secular, democratic and Islamic reformist views.
You make it sound like as if Israel and Islamism is somehow contradictional. It is not. Again and again, Israel considers itself a Jewish nation just like the Islamists from for example the Islamic State consider themselves a 'Muslim' state. The only minor difference is that Israel is using democracy and secularism to sugarcoat its own history and state.
And yes supporting Israel is the same thing as supporting the ethnic-cleansing of Palestinians, hence it is a middle-finger to the Palestinians. Israel was built on ethnic-cleansing eighty percent of the Palestinian population. And no Israel is definently not even a sign of liberalism. Qanta Ahmed is just as moronic as the average Islamist. She is really an idiotic 'Muslim'. She can shove her religious ideology up her arse. Nobody cares about her religious ideology. How does Qanta Ahmed carry liberal views when she is supporting a Jewish homeland? What moronic Qanta Ahmed is supporting http//4.bp.blogspot.com/_rl0N1IJv-p8/SWv8D-CLGcI/AAAAAAAAEKs/VuD8p4HGe9E/s400/006+see+Israel+what+you+done+to+a+Palestinian+child.jpg (18+ Brutal picture)
Thank God I grew up in a secular society that offers the best education in the world. I do not have to listen to these 'Muslim reformer' asshats letalone Islamists who are equally as garbage and warmongering. I do not support Palestine because the majority Palestinians are Muslims but rather because facts show that Palestinians belong in that land.
"Support a two state solution" With whom? European Jews? Europeans that escaped their brethren's attrocities? Why does no 'Muslim reformer' mention that? Too ashamed to mention European warcrimes that trippled Europes debts with trillions worth of damage? In any case it should be a Palestinian state. European Jews were 'guests' in Palestine and therefor this two state solution is BS. They Immigrated- They were Guests in Palestine- Now they want a two-state solution.
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rotfl
Who is playing the game of asking endless questions is more than obvious in the above example.
I have only one question for you... asking for the third time... not what Israel did or Malaysia did... my question is what you yourself meant with the word "same" in the below statement
The registration number of the plane found in Tel Aviv was same to what?
If you think some link that you shared already explains what "same" means here... let's say I am naive and stupid.. I did not get it... I would like you to directly answer this. Hope it is not too much for asking clarification of your own statement.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanThe registration number of the plane found in Tel Aviv was same to what?
Aha, you think that you have caught something important to put me down. But no, you didn't D because you know very well that the acquired plane's number was weirdly changed before sending it to Tel Aviv. And guess what? The change basically showed that even after being in Israel, my America owned the plane. Israeli aircraft's registration number/id begins with 4X and American aircraft's begins with N. The numbers are country specific (can be changed only if bought/leased by another country). Malaysia's numbers begin with 9m. Hence, I needed the older page of the two planes. Actually, every plane has its own page. Only those two oddly shared the same one.
You admit being naive and stupid but at the same time you come up with the idea that researching and looking into conspiracy theories is a devil's tool, etc. So we have to assume here that you are following double standard with the aim to supress freedom of thought and speech. I gave you the questions to ponder upon while you asked here questions that can be easily answered through your own research. Examples
Who found the plane? How was the ?same registration number? discovered? How does this observation link Zionists with hijack of Malaysian planes and planned terrorist attack? Can you bring 3 witnesses who will stand by this claim in a court of law?
If you cannot (and never will you do) then think again if such a claim is good enough justification for you to place such serious blames of plane hijack, homicide and attempted terrorist attack on another community? How would you react if someone blamed some ?Muslims? (say the pilots themselves) for planning terrorist attack based on such flimsy stories?
Then will you not fear Allah, who is our Master and their Master - who is not unjust by an atom's weight?
You already behaved like nothing outside my links exists and of course, you didn't visit all of them. Thats quite a deception considering the fact that you are using something called INTERNET to view this thread. You have plenty of keywords here to research on. You cunningly avoided Operation Northwood and this
I have something special for this
Many many years ago, a bizarre book was published. The writer in it claimed that when she was a little kid church people and the rich abused her. She also claimed that these nuns and priests down the Los Angeles worshiped the satan, sacrificed humans, ate raw meat of what not, did all sorts of sexual stuffs as rituals, etc. The woman then went onto saying that she was mind controlled by her parents, our US army people, Disney and Hollywood people to become prostitute for the rich and powerful.
Do you think its nonsense?
Do you know why I asked you about this? Because I myself found it rubbish. The name of the book is Thanks for the Memories. I believed not a thing from it. But then this happened
http//www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2984529/Cabinet-office-child-abuse-cover-MoS-beats-attempt-No10-gag-VIP-file-shows-Thatcher-knew-paedophile-MP-Cyril-Smith.html
http//vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/children-describe-satanic-ritual-abuse-sacrifice-video/My intention behind giving you that is simple don't criticize something without knowing why it is here. Of course, you are not gonna bother to keep it in mind because so far you have proved that its not your true goal. You already told me
At this point I may have failed to convince you
and even ignored my
I was only trying to imply that you need to keep an open mind.
You seem to target only the criticisms and questions we Muslims raise while ignoring the false info trolls post to this forum to prove that Islam is horrible. You find issue in our comments about Israel, but you are fully fine when an ignorant christian twists verses of Quran to prove that it is violent. I don't know what your agenda is. But I do see you trying to dehumanize us truth seekers by using the same weapon that hadith lovers, zionists and the rest of extremists use to shut the mouth of those who question them about their authenticity.
The formula is simple If they don't listen just call them sinners. Ex
Saying 9/11 was done by government equals to saying holocaust never happenedsheikhs of alazhar quranists are apostates; and the evidence from the holy book proves their guilt
Now you
But resorting to counter propaganda is not and cannot be an ethical response to that. ESPECIALLY not from a Qur'anic point of view. And those who indulge in this dirty game, I'll call them neither Quranist nor righteous.
Once again I am not sure you are understanding what I am saying here. Spreading "conspiracy theories" may not be an act of physical violance, but quite frequently it can be considered a form of information violance.
We in the western world have seen how history is written by the victors. One great example of this is here
Boston Bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Was Shot in Face, Say Doctors
This one is epic. Court documents talk about the shots. It also has picture of the guy in blood.
The most serious injury appeared to be a gunshot wound that entered through the inside of his mouth and out through the left side of his face, according to newly released court documents.
Video of patsy/trapped Tsarnaev from August 10th 2013
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JDupw8M4A0
I expected to see at least some marks from the wound of gun shots. Strange that his face looks sparkling clean.And last
Government agents 'directly involved' in most high-profile US terror plots
Before this news was published, conspiracy theorists found plenty of stuffs that showed involvement of FBI,CIA and Mossad in terrorist attacks. So newspapers telling it now isn't a biggie.We Americans experience the atrocity nicely described by Mossad agent here
https//encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbnANd9GcThZM0I2PY0wvfr33CxQBLBOfnxBjCnJeNKIBURw2sS9jNajtopThat's what we get from a country that ate up trillions of our tax money. We have been subjects of their unethical medical experiments. They have hijacked our government. We live in fear everyday because they don't mind attacking us. Even last week my school got a shooting threat. Investigation is still on.
Hence, it would be a waste of your time if you still go on trying to convince us that we are wrong in researching for truth.
Which is exactly the reason to why non-Muslims can become BETTER than Muslims. Qanta Ahmed's opinion is just as backward as the opinion of an American apologist making excuses for American warcrimes. I live in Sweden and many non-Muslims support Palestine while idiotic 'Muslims' probaly support either Israel or an Islamic State.
I really feel lucky that I live in California. This is one of the few states that has many thoughtful people.
You should look at South-Asia the amount of billions of dollars that flows to the region.
Yep the checks are written mainly by Saudi and British royals. It never surprised me. My tax money is sent to Israel.
Both Islamists and Pro-Israelies who do not deserve these funds.
I was once talking to a southasian Muslim teen. He mentioned that in his country, lots of weird Islamist groups were forming and they were all sponsored by the Brits. Its just the same old tactic of divide and conquer.
See? That is clear example of cherry picking Hadith. Most sectarians realize if they were to keep this Hadith, they can't have TV in their homes or even family photos in their smartphones, hence they quietly by-passed the Hadith. Ironically, these same sectarians will write me off for owning a flute. This puritan, self-righteous mindset among sectarians is unhealthy.
Double standard at best! To make things worse, they want to refute us, but most often don't know how to do this. I saw in sunni and shia forums people asking how they can combat the Quran followers. Its just so hilarious. They have no idea about the religion, but they are alarmed and disgusted by someone's belief in Quran alone. rotfl
First, Mahdi as a prophesy was unknown to Muslims for about the first century of Islam, you can start with Wikipedia. If Mahdi was a true Islamic prophesy that we are still awaiting, no event in the past would match it before it is fulfilled. This is not the case with this prophesy.
Sometime during the oppressive century-long period of Umayyad rule, the idea of a messianic Mahdi became popular amongst rival Alid and Abbasids (descendants of Ali and Abbas, respectively) and their supporters. Abbasid propaganda in favour of their eventual overthrow of Umayyad rule included many references to the Mahdi, including fabricated hadiths claiming him as an Abbasid in response to the widespread view of him being Alid.
There is so much in common between the Hadith on Mahdi and events during the Abbasid revolution. The Abbasid fighters raised black flags or banners, and starting with overthrow of the Omayyad governors, the Abbasid built their rebellion from Khorasan spreading the revolution to the rest of the empire. They claimed legitimacy to power by declaring to be descendant of Muhammad. Several Hadith on Mahdi speaks of an army from Syria mounting against him. Why Syria? Because the capital of the Ummayad Empire was Damascus, Syria. The first Abbasid caliph, adopted the title "Al Saffah"(The Generous), this was one of the alternate names of the Mahdi. He was even addressed directly as "Al Mahdi" by his poet.
https//books.google.com.ng/books?id=QJU3AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA1232&lpg=PA1232&dq=expedition+of+Kalb&source=bl&ots=5uWTruPDyu&sig=kINeNgLfrc7KhUu_xhYyI7BfeVg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=grlAVcePKYTpaOmUgLgD&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=expedition%20of%20Kalb&f=false
That is just the tip of the iceberg, there is so much that have been swept under the rug. Eventually, you realize that the Hadith prophesying the Mahdi were either fabricated during the Abbasid revolution or after it in order to lend credit to the claim of the Abbasid.
Oh my God, this just proves the long history of propaganda. Thank you so much for the link. I will continue researching more on this topic. )
Don't be so sure, ISIS already invoked the Mahdi. Several Hadith on the descent of the Mahdi also foretells an army from Syria mounting against him. With black flags, from the East and Asaad and his military mounting against them, ISIS consider themselves fulfilling a prophesy with Asaad as the Dajjal and perhaps Baghdadi as the Mahdi. Hey, do you even know that Baghdadi claims lineage lineage to Muhammad 's Family?
Now its getting clearer. I actually did read Sunnis saying that Assad was dajjal. Back then I didn't know from where it came. Baghdadi aka Mr Elliot is too young to be Mahdi rotfl Shias and now some Sunnis believe Mahadi never died P But lets see how far ISIS takes it. Middle East has turned it into a laughing stock
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5nigZzgf4YSomeone even has a parody account of baghdadi on twitter
https//twitter.com/hamerhaai_hiha
The tweets are funny as hell. I wish it was updated.
rotflObama, the military Adviser of Baghdadi
http//www.mrctv.org/videos/obama-calls-isis-caliphate-my-friend-and-ally-iraqi-comedic-sketch
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjaSGXmUjWI
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx0Gu0PlNjITheir answers were deceptive or ignorant at best. I wanted to see the caliber of Muslims we have in that section, so i decided putting them to test. For instance, i asked them if Islam ordains moderation when punishing criminals and they all responded affirmatively. Next, i asked them if Islam rules amputation for theft and they all accepted that as the penalty for theft. How in the the name of God is amputating a thief 's limb for stealing a bicycle a moderate penalty and not excessive or overkill?
Sectarians pay attention to every petty law that the clergy dictate, consequently neglecting moral principles like Justice, moderation, objectivity or accountability outlined in the Qur'an.
Some people over there are like zombies. They support sharia laws. Hence they gave you such stupid answers. But I have been noticing a rise in support for such brutal laws. I truly find it strange. But yeah, sectarians tend to prefer clergies' explanations over what Quran says. Zakir Naik has almost turned "divine". Now whatever he says seems to be taken as "holy truth".
All right, what do you think of Khalid Abou El Fadl? He is the only sectarian scholar that managed to intrigue me so far. It takes a lot for a scholar to come out openly and question the authenticity of Hadith. You know what it resulted for Rashad Khalifa, Ahmed Subhy Mansur, Edip Yuksel or Kassim Ahmed.
The only thing I knew about him was that he was appointed by Bush. But now that you asked I checked out some of his stuffs. He has many valid points about hadiths, but most of it has been already pointed out by those who follow Quran only. I wish he would take it farther though. Let's pray that he doesn't get assassinated or jailed like the ones you mentioned above.
Additionally, Qur'an alone isn't a well known yet. We still have a lot to do in spreading the message. And there is a lot to learn on stumbling upon it, if you are unwilling to think outside the box, you ''ll ignore or mock it as most sectarians and even non-Muslims do. The first time i encountered Qur'an alone idea was online but i overlooked it unaware that it present the most rational, noble and beautiful message interpretaion of Islam.
I agree with you. The awareness hasn't fully blossomed. I did find a few "Quranist" pages on facebook, but was disappointed to see them extremely busy with the atrocities of sectarians. Yes, we all know they caused violence. There is no need to repeat it on and on. What we need is the display of ayats that fobid sects, hadiths and clarification of those that have been distorted. Only the personal websites put them beautifully.
Then, like most traditionalists i was ignorant of terrible teachings from Tafsir and Hadith books. As a sectarian overridden with guilt for not growing my beard, not fasting twice weekly, letting my trousers beyond my ankles, listening to music e.t.c, months later, i decided to download Sahih Bukhari, read and comply with the Hadith for good. In short, ironically, this only culminated in my eventual disillusion with Hadith and reform to Qur'an alone.
lol, I went through the same. I was shamed for not wearing hijab. I was an object of hate for my Islam studies teachers for not fasting when I was 6 -. My mom although was liberal and hated hijab used to tell me how girls who wore burka were far better than me.
Isn't it amazing how these man made books make a religion/deen harder? Satanism is purely written all over them. You know it isn't easy to be follower of satan? But Allah makes things simple.
Yes, they round you up by putting it up to you to bring a full theory or proofs of everything that it has been done any way they fancy you think it was done and forget very conviently that in fact people, questioning people do not have to bring up proof of anything at all, because it is the state adminsitration, the "rulers" who command all the budgets for the purpose those who should do that job, and the ruled do not have neither those means nor that power nor have bought the press for themselves, and the only thing the ruled ones have to do to demand that justice be done is to point the flaws or indeed the impossibility that what their authorities say happenned CANNOT HAVE HAPPENNED.
Herd mentality will never understand this. Its creepy to see the extreme amount of trust they put on media.
And indeed the 911 events CANNOT HAVE HAPPENED the way we were told by the authorities. THE LAWS OF PHYSICS FORBIT IT. Many other laws forbid it too, but, the point was not to convince people of the truth of such nonsense but to convince the people that their part in life is to asent and consent to anythying that is imposed on them, and forget about anything making sense. That was clear looking at oily Tony Blair with a big oily smile conceding that he had lied but that that was the way things are.
Laws of photoshop and consistent journalism were also broken rotfl
Therefore, if you cannot fight them, join them... Seems to be the moto for some people. What is more revolting is that for that they put up big morals grandstandings attempting to manipulate the guilty complex which most people tend to have. And most of the time, they have it very easy.
Salaam
Thanks for such a great explanation sis. You have put it all out in the open. Its just so visible in sheeples' arguments that i now truly fail to take them seriously.
Guys, I will be gone for two weeks because of exams '( and an idiotic project due within 9 days -[. I had fun with the circus and truth brought to table here. If you have more to post do it without hesitation. When I come back I will respond to it.
peace
-
To all readers of this thread
Since sister Reel has already confirmed, she is not going to mend her ways because that would go against her Masters studies ? so instead of addressing her, I am presenting the case below for personal consideration of each of you.
On this very thread sister Reel presented a conspiracy theory. Her prepositions are as follows
After 9/11, conspiracy theories stopped two Zionist driven terrorist attack from happening by sharing of information. Ex Olympic bombing and 9/11 kind of attack again in NY with the twin of the Malaysian plane that went missing last year. The pilots all around the world began investigating the case. Eventually they found out that a similar plane with the same registration number was standing in Tel Aviv.
(highlight added)
Overlooking the number of bizarre claims that she is making in one sentence, I draw your attention to her claim about the ?the twin of the Malaysian plane?? she is suspecting the Zonist connection to this attack based on the claim that someone discovered a similar plane with the same registration number was standing in Tel Aviv.
When I asked for more details, she flooded me with internet links. After carefully going through the links I learnt that in 2013, GA Telesis, a company with demonstrated Israeli connection acquired a Boeing 777 model aircraft from Malaysian Airlines for dismantling. The transaction was made public with a press release (Ref 1). The original registration number of the aircraft was 9M-MRI, which after the title transfer was re-registered as N105GT (Ref 2). Apparently the company, instead of dismantling the aircraft right away has kept it intact at Tel Aviv. The company management did not respond to journalist?s request to comment on why they delayed the dismantling. (Ref 3)
These are pretty much the ?facts? surrounding the allegation. Does the above sound provocatively suspicious in view of the Malaysian plane (both Boeing 777) incidents? Perhaps it does. Does it prove or demonstrate Israeli connection to the Malaysian airline crash and/or a planned terrorist attack? No, of course it doesn?t. Claiming any such connection solely based on the above facts would be purely speculative ? no responsible media outlet will take such speculation seriously, nor will any court of law or any scholarly undertaking.
Let?s see what Qur?an has to say about such speculative stories.
496 O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate, lest you harm a people out of ignorance and become, over what you have done, regretful.
? ? ?
4911 O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
4912 O you who have believed, avoid much assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful.
4913 O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.
(Translation by Sahih International)
Well, if the ?speculation? was not bad enough? our enthusiastic sister managed to upgrade herself to yet another level when her willingness to bolster her speculation, knowingly or unknowingly, made her pick the words ??with the same registration number?.
As I mentioned earlier the old registration number of the transferred aircraft was 9M-MRI (new registration number N105GT), whereas the two Malaysian Airlines aircrafts that recently crashed / was shot down had the registration numbers 9M-MRO and 9M-MRD respectively.
So, the plane seen at Tel Aviv has the same registration number as WHAT? Actually nothing. It was a false claim personally cooked-up by our beloved sister to make her story sound more interesting. When an unsuspecting gullible reader reads the words ?a similar plane with the same registration number was standing in Tel Aviv? doesn?t it have a wow factor! Surely two planes are not supposed to have same registration number ? so if a plane with same registration number as that of another crashed plane was found in Tel Aviv it does prove something deeply fishy was going on! But the truth is - this claim of ?same registration number? is a big fat lie? carefully punched into the story to make it sound convincing.
Then what is our take on the below commandment from Qur?an
242 And do not mix the truth with falsehood or conceal the truth while you know .
(Translation by Sahih International)
Or do we say the above verse only applies to children of Israel, and for the rest of us mixing the truth with falsehood is halal?
Blind blame game for some people is only good if directed against the defenceless, Palestine, for instance. When directed against the powerful it is absolutely obnoxious and evil and confounds people. Who should be good sheep and not stray off the herd.
Here comes the big words of wisdom from one of the oldest member of the forum. On sister Reel?s defense, she was only trying to help the cause of the ?defenseless? persecuted Palestinians. In face of all the falsehood and injustice thrown upon the children of Palestine ? a little bit of fabrication, a little bit of exaggeration to expose the powerful Zionists ?monsters? should be okay, right?
No, WRONG again.
Let?s see what Qur?an has to say on the matter
4135 O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah , even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both. So follow not inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort or refuse , then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.
(Translation by Sahih International)
So, the underlying principle is? we have to stand by justice and truth. We must not follow our inclination to support whom we perceive as poor / weak / vulnerable and thereby distort the truth.
Allah is our Master and their Master and He is not unjust by an atom?s weight.
Those of you who are studying Qur?an carefully, may have already noticed? Qur?an does not only prohibit falsehood, it takes the evils of falsehood as an underlying assumption to build up its logic. For example let?s consider this verse
210 In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they used to lie.
(Translation by Sahih International)
Look how the verse assumes that the reader understands that ?to lie? is a sin, and Allah is justified to increase the ?disease? of the liars.
The stance of Qur?an against falsehood is clear and unambiguous. Falsehood does not enter the Qur?an from the front or from the back or from right or from left. There is no way one can seek the path of intentional falsehood and fabrication as a ?strategy? (against the weak, the strong, the rich, the poor whatever) and still hope to be guided by Qur?an.
The purpose of this long post is not to analyze whether or not Israel had any role in Malaysian plane incidents. (If they really hand a hand behind it, I have faith that my Master will one day bring the truth to broad daylight ? but as of now, there is no justification to promote such flimsy speculations.) Rather my purpose here is to put our own behavior under the microscope. The fight of falsehood by falsehood, propaganda by propaganda is running for ages. Aren?t we, the members of this forum, supposed to strive to break this vicious circle with truth and justice? If we allow ourselves to indulge in spreading of fabricated stories and speculation, what moral ground do we have to challenge the fabrication brought forward by the Zionists or the ISIS camp? let alone the Bukhari & Co? Those of you who claim to follow Qur?an only.. is it enough that we carry ?Qur?an only? label? Or, do we need to follow the Quranic principles of truth, justice and impartiality in our own words and actions to justify such a claim?
As for the carrier of fire-wood (hamma latal hatab), surely she will have her own twisted rope around her neck.
So, cease. It is better for you, if you understand.But if you don?t? and if you still feel inclined to seek your refuge in these meaningless game of falsehood and propaganda, then bear witness (on the day of judgment), that someone did warn you against such behavior.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanReference 1 http//www.gatelesis.com/ga-telesis-disassembles-boeing-777-200er-767-200er-and-757-200er/
Reference 2 http//www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/777/28416,N105GT-GA-Telesis.php
Reference 3 https//jhaines6.wordpress.com/2014/04/23/why-is-a-twin-of-the-missing-mh370-in-a-hanger-in-israel-by-chris-bollyn/