Reassessing the identity of: Israēl's Progeny
-
Bold So, do you think that Taurat and Injeel was first written in Arabic?
I wonder if actually all of God's messages were originally written in Arabic.
@ mmkhan, @ hawk99
Brothers, I hope you two would notice and read what I quoted above.
Are you serious? Every word in Quran that refers to the Jews, Thora etc is borrowed from hebrew. This is a linguistic fact. If those words are borrowed from hebrew how can you even consider the Thora being written in arabic?
Peace
-
For the creative linguists on this forum, here's one of the tools I use to check linguistic etymology. I can highly recommend it to crosscheck your 'theories'...
https//archive.org/stream/foreignvocabular030753mbp
Peace
-
They were written in one of those South Arabian Musnad script eg, Sabaic, Qatabanic, Hadramautic, Minaic (or Madhabic), Himyaritic.
The Quran 0578
Cursed were those who disbelieved among the Children of Israel by the tongue of Dawood and of Esa, the son of Mary. That was because they disobeyed and transgressed.
From the verse above, it shows that the Israelite, of those who follow Dawood and Esa, had their own dialect and it is plausible that the Taurat and Injeel were written in the language of the Israelite of Dawood and Esa respectively. It can be one of those dialect mentioned above.
This 'dialect' you refer to is hebrew. Even the name Dawood itself is of hebrew origin. The names for Dawood, Esa, Mary all have hebrew roots, not one of them can be traced to a pre-islamic southern arabian language.
Peace
-
Are you serious? Every word in Quran that refers to the Jews, Thora etc is borrowed from hebrew. This is a linguistic fact.
This 'dialect' you refer to is hebrew.
Linguistic fact?
More likely it is nothing but Orientalist, political propaganda.
I have said it before and I will say it again, for the 1000th time there is no such thing as a "Hebrew" language.
This term, which they brandish like a scourge in front of our faces, claiming its "holiness" and "originality" was invented from scratch by a Russian linguist named Eliezar Ben Yehudha, in order to create an esperanto for the Jews who came from all corners of the world, and to artificially unify them in a single nationality, eventhoiugh historical evidence shows they had nothing in common. How can you invent a national ndentity, if you don't have a common tongue for all?
The term "hebrew" , which is 'ibran (ن in Arabic, is not a proper noun. It is a common description which simply means "nomad" / "one who moves" / "wanderer" / "one who goes in search for a place to settle" / "one who crosses over".
Don't believe me? Look it up.
The photo you see below belongs to a Yemeni scholar and historian by the name of Muthir Ali Aryani . It is supperimposed on a Sheban inscription. This man, who is still alive today, and 83 years old, has examined hundreds of South Arabian inscriptions from his native country. Many of these same inscriptions were also analyzed previously by Eduard Glaser. A large number of the inscriptions has been stolen and are now on display in the museums of Europe, where they carry the tag of "GL" on them (refering to Glaser). So you will find them numbered as such, for example GL-1113 / GL-1114 / , etc...
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduard_Glaser
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Aryani_zpsnad8tq9q.jpg
Among these relics, written in stone using the Musnad script, are dozens of tablets which feature the term 3ibran (HEBREWS) which clearly indicates NOMADS in the context thereof.
Here is one such example
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/No.32_zpscagl82jb.jpg
The above photo is taken from tablet number 32 in Aryani's book "Himyaritic Inscriptions and Commentaries". The first few lines state the following
The chief, Sa'd Ta'leb Yatlif al-Jadni, great among the 'ibran (hebrews) of Saba' (Sheba), Kindah, Midhaj, aram, Bhil, Zad-eel, imyar, aramawt and Yamnt, hereby makes an offering to his Lord, Al-Maqah, Baal of Awm; this statuette of bronze and gold, thanking him for allowing safe passage of his servant, Sa'd Ta'leb Dhi-Jadn, and those with him of the 'ibrn, who sought refuge in the city of Nashaq, on their way from aramawt.
As you can see, the word clearly indicates nomads, in the context. There's plenty more where that came from.
One particular Musnad tablet, placed on display in a museum in Vienna, and tagged as GL1155, speaks of Misr and its ruler, whom it identifies as such
?Amdq...kabri Mr wa Ma?n Mr.
What this tells us is that Misr was within the boundaries of the Mai'n kingdom, in South Arabia. It is for this reason that the German proffessor Hugo Winckler made the following bold statement in the year 1899, which the "politically correct" Orientalists of his age did not like
The two Israelite Kingdoms were autonomous regions within the borders of the Minean Kingdom.
Here is another example of Misr, from a different occasion (marriage of two people)
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Glaser_zps739pq8u6.jpg
The above is tagged GL1282, and here is the translation
Zayd-eel bin 'Abd, from the clan of Tayzan, belonging to the tribe of Mawqih, herewith ties the knot with Mahar Badr, from Misr.
Is this Misr synonymous with the Egypt of the Nile?
There is a difference between saying the truth and saying what is politically correct. Very often the two don't agree.
Truth The Israelites were not the only hebrews (nomads) but simply one people from among many that were described so. These Israelites were originally residents of South Arabia, and they gradually made the transition to a more sedentary life. They were not culturaly different from the other tribes of the region. And the language they spoke was an ancient, South Arabian dialect. The Zinoist propaganda machine, seeking to "revive" a so-called "Hebrew" language which they claim had been dead for 2000 years, chose the perfect timing to do this the turn of the 20th Century, when their imperial project began to take shape. The aim was to create an artifical language that could unite the Jews of the world (Russians, Poles, Germans, Dutch, Hungarians, etc...) under one banner, and force a fake national identity for them in Palestine, an identity which had no historical basis whatsoever. To do this, Eliezar bin Yehuda took an ancient South Arabian vernacular (Sheba-Himyar), from a glossary he had access to, mixed it with Yiddish (a German rural dialect), peppered it with some Arabic here and there, adopted the Squared Aramaic script as its vehicle, and came out to the world with claims of holiness and originality.
All you have to do to verify this truth is listen to recordings of the bedouin tribes of Hadhramaut and Shibwah, who still speak these ancient dialetcs in the desolate corners of those countries, and you will immediately catch the drift and see how similar their speach is, in cadence and phonetics, to the so-called "Hebrew" that they boast of. When you say "Hebrew Language", you are basically reiterating the falsehood of a universal and unique tongue called "the Nomadic Labguage". Do you not see how absurd this is?
Political Propaganda The "Hebrews" are a culturally different and seperate race, having specific and unique attributes of "holiness" being that they are the only "Semitic" peoples, while other races are inferior beings of "non-Semitic" stock. These Hebrews are exclusively Israelites, and their promised land was in Palestine, and they spoke a special and unique language called "Hebrew" which is unlike any other, because it was tought to them by God Himself.
Peace.
-
The oldest hebrew inscriptions are thousands of years older than any zionist movements saw daylight. Pretending hebrew is not a proper semitic language is just inane - ignoring linguistic and historical evidence. Evidence of a hebrew community existing in the kingdom of sheba does not erase the hebrew language from the semitic language family tree. In contrary.
@Pazuzu, if you are unable to seperate politics from linguistics I'm afraid your posts will contribute little to this debate except confusion and self-contradiction. Your self-contradiction is obvious. If hebrew was not a proper semitic language then why are hebrew words so often used in Quran? If the etymology of those words is not hebrew then what is it? They certainly aren't arabic. (see http//archive.org/stream/foreignvocabular030753mbp) What about the Gezer calendar? What about the Zayit Stone and paleo-hebrew?
Peace
-
Zayit Stone, Gezer calendar, Mesha stele, Sidon, ...
Paleo-hebrew was originally written in phoenician alphabet. Are you unaware of this? The text is hebrew though.
If you opened an etymological arab lexicon even once, it's hard not to be hit in the face by the many similarities between phoenician, hebrew and quranic keywords.
Peace
-
How is "Paleo-hebrew" not questionable!?
-
You ask me how it is not questionable after I gave you examples of historical evidence of it? It linguistically interlocks with among others the moabite language, proto-canaanite language and phoenician. If you question paleo-hebrew, you will have to question all those others as well because they were indistinguishable before 1050 BCE. Paleo-hebrew started its own branch in the semitic language tree after 1050 BCE as the archaeological evidence shows you.
Peace
-
To me the israelites in Quran are the descendants of the tribe of Jacob.
Peace
-
Mind you, I rebuff "Classical Arabic" itself!
Hence, the so-called "Paleo-hebrew" sure seems like a good suspect to me.
To me the israelites in Quran are the descendants of the tribe of Jacob.
The (non-qurnic) doctrine that "Isral = Yacb" is based on a blasphemous (biblical) account!
~ clearly man-made fabrication!
-
I'd be interested to hear your view of the etymology of all those hebrew foreign words in Quran then. Their hebrew origin is the only valid thesis. They have been properly studied and compared with other languages. Experts are sometimes even able to distinct the jewish or christian origin of those hebrew foreign words in Quran.
So what is language X then?
Peace
-
It seems to me some of you only have an agenda of robbing the Jews of their entire culture. I wonder if this is because of an ex-sunni anti-semitic past or rather a confusion with hate for the modern zionist Israeli state.
Peace
-
Paleo-hebrew was originally written in phoenician alphabet. Are you unaware of this? The text is hebrew though.
Pardon my ignorance, but
What discernable distinctions are there between an asserted "Paleo-hebrew" inscription and a Phoenician inscription?Ie. How does one distinguish between the two!?
-
How does one distinguish between the two!?
One can't. What he calles "Paleo-Hebrew" is simply an extinct Phoenician vernacular (an archaic form of Aramaic). It's throwing the label of "Hebrew" (with a capital "H" on it that pisses me off.
Furthermore, there is not one passage in the entire Old Testament scripture that even remotely suggests or insinuates that the Israelites spoke "Hebrew".
-
One can't. What he calles "Paleo-Hebrew" is simply an extinct Phoenician vernacular (an archaic form of Aramaic). It's throwing the label of "Hebrew" (with a capital "H" on it that pisses me off.
Furthermore, there is not one passage in the entire Old Testament scripture that even remotely suggests or insinuates that the Israelites spoke "Hebrew".
How do you explain pretty much everyone of the keywords in Quran referring to the Tanakh being a borrowed word from hebrew? If you don't think those numerable keywords are borrowed from hebrew then please enlighten us which language they were borrowed from.
Also please be aware paleo-hebrew is older than the use of aramaic alphabet for writing hebrew. Modern hebrew is based on the aramaic alphabet, paleo-hebrew is not.
@hicham They have distinct alphabets.
Peace