So did anyone figured out what salat is?
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Peace hawk99,
No problem handshake
I think it was slaughtering the animals at the time of hajj and mentioning the creator's name on them, but that is not mentioned with Ibrahim so I'm not sure. I made the connection because hajj is mentioned in context of Ibrahim, and nusuk is mentioned in context of Ibrahim and explained in context of hajj. I haven't researched all the occurrences of Ibrahim one by one yet because there are soooo many! Let me know if you find out anything.
If all those verses are examined one by one and we cannot find what nusuk were shown to Ibrahim then maybe it is not important what nusuk were shown to him. That's why I said earlier we should focus on what nusuk are for us.
I apologize for saying I cannot do your homework. It's just that there are so many Ibrahim verses!
6162 proves salat and nusuk are different things.
The website was created by Wakas, and for that reason alone he has a very high station (maqam) and tremendous respect in my eyes.
My the creator bless you.
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Hawk99,
Is that so? I feel it is should be very clear and comprehensive answering many questions. But you always parrot the same reply at me regardless of how comprehensive my research is.
But you have a mind sold to the ancient sectarian account of an islam filled with Pagan rituals. It is not so.
If you think GOD needs your scheduled prayer so go on and continue the activity. I just feel you have missed something. You need constant contact with GOD and not some lame sequence of empty words which GOD knows you mean or not mean before you even opened up your mouth. It is not a man, a human king, you stand before.
I have already pointed out the fallacy of the praying birds and there is more. And do you really think that the first condition GOD asks for to Moses and more important than he being upright and following the decree is upholding a contact prayer? You are surely wholly, are you?
Salaam
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QA l-qwd () lit. means the remains not foundations . . .
Seems like your understanding fails a Quran cross-reference, albeit the above is commonly taken as a metaphor.
I'm not sure about that ... one thing for sure, foundations doesn't fit in 2460!
In modern-day Standard Arabic qidah (pl. qawid) is used in the sense of a rule, principle, or simply a fundament ... This later meaning, I concede, is more conceivable as a denotation of QA qwd (in 2127 & 1626) than my first suggestion (the remains).
In 2460, however l-qwd () is an adj., who's primary meaning I understand as the remaining X's from the central semitic root qd ~ to sit, or remain (behind) ...
So, after giving it a bit of contemplation,
my Current Understanding of QA l-qwd changes as follows002127004 (noun)
CU And as Abrahm hoisteth the fundaments of the Temple, and Imal , (saying) "Our Master, accept from us, for Thou art The knowledgeable Hearer"
016026010 (noun)
CU Those before them sure did plot. Then, G-D overtook their buildings from the fundaments; thus the roof above them fall over them. And the punishment overtook them from whence they did not estimate.
024060001 (adjective)
CU and the remnants of the women who anticipate no marriage , there is no taint upon them be it they lay (aside) their garments without flaunting with adornment; and to abstain is better for them. And G-D is a Knowledgeable Hearer.
Ps. Notably, a building's fundaments are chiefly what remains of it (when destroyed or decayed by time).
SLM
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peace t11,
- How would you explain Abraham raising the foundations from a land/town? What does that mean?
- I noticed you used both from/of in your translation of 2127. Why is that?
Re 2)
To my knowledge "min" can theoretically mean "of" or "from" and since I did not study Quran in detail with regard to this point and/or my knowledge of Arabic is not extensive enough to rule out "of" completely, I didn't. I tend to be cautious in my approach hence left both options in. However, I just recalled my following note'An Introduction to Classical and Koranic Arabic' by W.M. Thackston
http//islamicbulletin.org/free_downloads/quran/thackston_arabic.pdf
p7
Quote "min(a) (+genitive) from/among/amongst/in (in a partitive sense)"'A Grammar of Classical Arabic' by Wolfdietrich Fischer
https//ia600806.us.archive.org/22/items/AGrammarOfClassicalArabic/AGrammarOfClassicalArabic.pdf
p90
Quote "If the sense is partitive, it is combined with the dependent genitive by min"
p160
Quote "In combination with terms that denote place and time, min refers to a certain segment of the place or time, e.g. min al-layli 'in a part of the night""bayti" in "alqawaAAida mina albayti" in 2127 is in the genitive construction, thus until proven otherwise I will take "min" here in the partitive sense.
So, that takes us to your question, Re 1)
Q3d can mean physical foundations/groundworks/bases (e.g. of a structure) but also how it is used in English, e.g. "he built his affair on a firm foundation" - Lane's Lexicon cites this example. So it seems there are some possibilities."...raising the foundations from/of the shelter..."
"...raising the foundations in a part of the shelter..."I would imagine this could refer to either
building a town's necessary basic structures, e.g. dwellings, communal/governing facilities, public areas for congregation, security, water wells/systems, enlarging it etc.
or
brought about various founding principles. This could be connected with "millat Abraham" mentioned later in 2130. -
Salaam amin,
There is no ritual. It is the guile. You have to read again through my post. The word means the following of someone or something, i.e. you are guided by that object. I gave you the word definition very clearly and gave you an example with a leading horse in a horse race. This horse leads (guides) the race. The same with salat, directly or indirectly you follow guidance, if you do that.
Salaam
Salam MOF,
If you say Salat meaning physically following someone or something? or something related directly to guidance, I do not think it is so.
Salat takes us away from our normal activities we do for ourselves. A time to stop our normality/routine.
The birds example.
The birds when flying they need to flap their wings, this is normal activity and when they spread their wings, I see that they are in rest mode/silent mode or symbolically in connecting mode.Salat is not one we do all the time, not our daily routine, its the time we turn towards our creator, connect with him and be available for him. One's salat we forget ourselves but remember him.
So we do our Salat at the end of our sleep, in the middle of long work, at the end of work etc...
I think, The verses which talk about security of the prophet is because of this, in Salat one goes to the pause mode, stopping the normal activity they do, one falls down, close eyes etc... so in that verse it allows prophet to keep security for him in that state.
Also i do not find it to be a ritual to please God nor the more done the more the blessings etc..kind and its not done without any reason.
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Ok amin,
I respect your opinion. I tried to show elaborately.
In a while I intend to release a research paper on salat which is going to be very comprehensive. Maybe you may change your mind then.
Salaam
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Salam MOF,
I respect your opinion and understand.
I would like to ask you about this word Selaah thats mentioned in Psalms as written here,
Selah (/sil/; Hebrew , also transliterated as selh) is a word used seventy-four times in the Hebrew Bible?seventy-one times in the Psalms and three times in Habakkuk. The meaning of the word is not known, though various interpretations are given below. (It should not be confused with the Hebrew word sela? (Hebrew ‎ which means "rock".) It is probably either a liturgico-musical mark or an instruction on the reading of the text, something like "stop and listen." Selah can also be used to indicate that there is to be a musical interlude at that point in the Psalm. The Amplified Bible translates selah as "pause, and think of that." It can also be interpreted as a form of underlining in preparation for the next paragraph.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selah
What do you think about it? as you can see my idea about Salat correlates with the above one.
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Absolutely not, Reel.
Salaam
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Amin,
Do you know how it is spelled using Arabic letters? Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic use the same letters. Is it , or how is it spelled that selah?
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I did my own research on the letters. They are Samekh-Lamed-Ayn which is equivalent to Seen-Lam-Ayn in the Arabic script. It means the Selah in the Bible is not Salat but and the combination has no root in the Arabic language used in Quran. Yet I can make an analysis of the word and as far as I can see it means to have consciousness about what is recited in the context of the Bible you mentioned.
Salaam
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To me, QA lh () means rapport, or rapprochement.
QA lwh (), or lwt () is a Shemitic term whose basic meaning, I understand as Rapport, Rapprochement, Conciliation or Reconciliation, ... This is my (current) understanding.
My CU. of the peremptory vb. a is to bend/incline (upon), concur/agree (with), or consent/approve (of) ~ instead of just parroting gibberish like robots! ~ G-D's Order is to 'bend/incline' upon the nby + (completely) 'yield/capitulate' ...
To me, ml () is a site dedicated to lwh ().
In Sura 4102, G-D commands His messenger to follow a certain pattern/procedure when assuming the role of a conciliator.
That's why G-D emphasized the importance of carrying weapons ...Consequently, I recognize two types of lwt in the Qurn!
One is individualistic ~ prescribed upon the acknowledger/s (4103)
This, I regard as a personal reunion between the servant/s and The One Master ...The 2nd is generally prescribed upon the people altogether (en masse).
ie. Humans are expected to establish and maintain harmony/agreement/concord between the parties in dispute ~ Its Conciliation (ADR)This is my humble understanding (as an apprentice) ~ our Master (always) knows best.
SLM
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Yeah, "rapport" is a reasonable translation if it means that you are aware of what heading to take in terms of guidance. If you morphologically break it down it is "Perceive As/Relate ". It means by any mode that you can follow (keep in contact so you do do not lose contact) someone or something either by physical movement, movement of the eyes or a mental image.
The lexicon about a horse race does not lie.
Salaam
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Nice explanation
Reality of Salat
It is evident that the Holy Qur?an has been revealed in eloquent Arabic. The Holy Prophet (?s) and the infallible Imams (?a) conveyed their views and opinions to the people in the customary language prevalent in those times. And there is no evidence or document in support of change in the meanings of terms used by these holy personalities.Therefore, it is obligatory that every term that has come in the Qur?an or used by the Holy Prophet (?s) and the infallible Imams (?a), must be used in that very literal meaning as was prevalent in their times. This premise is applicable to all the terms and phrases used by them including the words that mean worship. But for the limitations and conditions set by them on the literal applications, especially of the words used to imply worship, we must apply the apparent meanings to achieve our aim.
The word ?Salat? is among the Arabic words which is used in abundance in Qur?an and the traditions of the Holy Prophet (?s) and the infallible Imams (?a). Thus, to know its actual meaning, first and foremost, we must search for its literal meaning and then strive to look for its conditions and definitions in the words of the infallibles (?a).
In Lesaanul Arab, vol. 14, p. 464, Ibn Manzoor writes As-Salat means al-dua (invocation) and al-istighfar (seeking forgiveness)?. And Zujjaaj has said The root in the word al-Salat is necessity. It is said, ?when a thing becomes obligatory (i.e. when it does not become separate or separates a thing). And among the meanings of a musalli is the horse that comes second in the race, i.e. it trails behind the first horse. Yet another meaning of sal?ya is roasted meat and other roasted items. Also, Salat means to warm one?s hands?Salat also means to whirl or spin a staff to soften it or to make it straight.
Ibn Athir, in al-Nihayah, vol. 2, p. 50, writes Salat means a special form of worship. Its literal root implies invocation?.Also it is said that its literal meaning indicates respect.
The meaning that has been accepted by all Arab litterateurs is ?invocation?. This translation is also universally accepted among the jurists. But considering the fact that the word invocation is always used in the transitive form, while Salat is non-transitive, it becomes clear that these are not synonyms or equivalents of each other. The reality of invocation is not only calling out or supplicating, rather it is only one of its facets. Invocation, in reality, suggests the calling out the invoked one by the one who invokes to attract the attention of the former.
And when it is coupled with calling out, it is termed as ?dua? (supplication). But as the word ?Salat? is non-transitive, i.e. it is not in need of an object, it connotes sheer attention of one to another, without him expecting that person to pay attention to him. Therefore, the literal meanings of this expression indicate that Salat is an attention that is accompanied with softness, respect and following.
The word ?Salat? has been used in this very meaning in the Holy Qur?an and tradition. Like in the verse,
?Surely Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet.? (Qur?an, 3356)
where the blessings of Allah upon the Prophet (?s) have been supplemented with the blessings of the angels.
Similarly, in another verse,
?Their (polytheists) prayers in the Ka?ba was nothing but whistling and clapping of hands.? (Qur?an, 835)
In still another verse, the Holy Qur?an declares,
?He is the One who turns towards you and so do His angels that He may bring you out from the darkness to light.? (Qur?an, 3343)
Yet another verse commands the Holy Prophet (?s),
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?And turn your attention towards them. Certainly your attention provides them comfort.? (Qur?an, 9103)
The salawat sent by the Muslims on the Prophet (?s) and his progeny (?a), which incidentally is the most oft-uttered dhikr in Islam, is another evidence to support our view. Therefore, it is clear that the Salat of Allah, His angels and the Muslims on the Holy Prophet (?s) and his pure progeny (?a), and similarly the Salat of the polytheists in the Ka?ba and the Salat of Allah?s Messenger on the Muslims while taking charity from them, none comprised of prostration, bowing or other essential elements of the daily ritual prayers in them.
Another proof is this famous slogan that was used in the early period of Islam to call the society towards Allah?s religion, ? ? which is the Arabic equivalent of ?your attention please,? when you want to draw the attention of others to a very important matter.
Yet another proof is that traditions have talked about the Salat of Iblis, Hazrat Adam (?a), Hazrat Nuh (?a), Hazrat Sulaiman (?a), Hazrat Musa (?a) and Hazrat Isa (?a). Therefore, it is evident that the literal aspect, root and reality of Salat, was present in all the Prophets (?a). Moreover, there were many Arabs who practiced Christianity and Judaism yet used this term for their form of worship.
And if the word Salat bore any other meaning than attention in their vocabulary, it would have been used in that very sense. In that case, the unanimity of the litterateurs on the meaning of this word would not hold water.
This itself is a proof for the fact that the word Salat has been used in Islamic ideology in its literal sense and nobody used it in its new sense in the initial era of Islam. And only after applying the requisite definitions and conditions to it, they have excepted and limited its literal meaning and concept.
More important than all these is the basic and fundamental difference in the types of Salat - obligatory (wajib), recommended (mustahab), types of obligatory and types of recommended. Also, the differences in Salat prescribed for different individuals - traveler, sick, drowning and dumb.
Obviously, no other meaning can take in its fold all the above applications, except the literal meaning on which everybody agrees - the only difference being in the definitions and conditions attached to them. E.g. the daily prayers are the same as the Friday prayers but each of them possesses certain conditions peculiar only to itself. In the tradition of ascension (mi?raj) it has been narrated from the Holy Prophet (?s)
?Hazrat Musa (?a), in one of his munajat (whispering supplications) to Allah prayed, ?O Allah! Grant me Your recognition.? Allah retorted, ?Testify that there is no god but Allah.? Hazrat Musa (?a) asked, ?O Allah! How is Salat?? Allah the Almighty replied, ?Say, ?There is no god but Allah? and till the day of judgement, My servants will utter this statement.?1
A little attention on this tradition reveals the fact that the literal aspect of the word Salat covers all types of remembrance and attention towards the Almighty. The only difference being among them is that while one is perfect, the other is more perfect, one is obligatory and the other, recommended. To imply that the application of the word Salat is true only for the obligatory while for others it is just metaphorical, is definitely wrong and incorrect.
For, the most complete Salat is that which includes the recitation of the Holy Qur?an, its invocations and other conditions that are available in the traditions of the Holy Prophet (?s) and his infallible progeny (?a). As the Qur?an itself descended in stages and the traditions of the infallible were narrated sequentially, proves that Salat of the Prophets (?a) prior to the Holy Prophet (?s) and that of the Muslims in early Islam, was only in its metaphorical sense (and not as used today).
Then it will not be incorrect if we say The literal meaning of Salat is applicable everywhere, except that for each occasion some conditions and restrictions have been imposed. In the conversation between Imam As-Sadiq (?a) and Mansur, the Abbaside Caliph, the same meaning can be derived
?On a Friday, Mansur emerged from his palace while leaning on the shoulders of Imam As-Sadiq (?a). On seeing this, a person called ?Razaam? remarked, ?Who is this man who enjoys such a status that the chief of the believers (Mansur) is leaning on him?? He was told that he is Abu Abdillah, Jafar Ibn Muhammad al-As-Sadiq (?a). He cried (with the intention of insulting the Imam), ?How I wish that the face of Abu Abdillah would become the shoe of Mansur!?
Thereafter, he came in front of Mansur and said, ?O Chief of the believers! Permit me to pose a query. Mansur answered, ?Ask him (Imam (?a)).? He insisted, ?I want to ask you.? Mansur was obstinate, ?Ask him?. On this, Razam stood before Imam As-Sadiq (?a) and demanded, ?Define for me Salat and its conditions and restrictions. Imam (?a) replied, ?Salat has four thousand definitions and you do not deserve to be informed of all of them.?
He said, ?Inform me only of those conditions that cannot be forsaken and without which Salat will not remain a Salat.? Imam (?a) explained, ?Salat will not be complete till a person performs the ablutions (Wudhu) completely and prays without any shortcomings. Unawareness, hypocrisy and deviation should be totally discarded. He should recognise Allah and stand before Him with total cognition. A feeling of humility and modesty should encompass him. He should find himself between complete hope and absolute despair, patient as well as anxious.
That is, he should stand as if Allah? promises will be fulfilled for him and that His threats will be actualised against him. He should put aside his own honour and dignity. His aim and goal should be right in front of his eyes. He must submit his heart to the Almighty and tread on His path. He should not be distanced with his prayers to such an extent that his relationship with his Lord is totally severed. Remember, he is standing before Him who is his aim and brought for Him his own gift, and at the same time, hoping for His Help, Assistance and Grace.
The Salat that is ordered and revealed (in Qur?an) is this very Salat. And it is this Salat which keeps a person away from evils and indecencies.?When Imam As-Sadiq (?a) completed his reply, Mansur turned to him (?a) and said,
?O Abu Abdillah! We always quench our thirst from the ocean of your knowledge and come nearer to you. You have extricated us from deviation and have dispelled our darkness with your light. We will always float in the brilliance of your holiness and the oceans of your greatness.?2
Therefore, the reality of the term ?Salat?, its subject and application, is the very attention towards Allah the Almighty but this meaning has been subjected to some definitions, restrictions and conditions in the Quranic verses and traditions of the infallible (?a). For instance, the condition of timings, facing the Qiblah, saying ?Allah-o-Akbar?, recitation of Qur?an, glorification, praise, saying ?there is no god but Allah?, witnessing monotheism and prophethood, praying for the Prophet (?s), bowing in respect, prostration, etc. Hence, the various actions and utterances in the obligatory and recommended prayers and the numerous types of prayers, are not the reality of the term ?Salat?. Rather, these have been connected to it through the medium of other proofs.
http//www.al-islam.org/salat-prayer-mode-divine-proximity-and-recognition-ayatullah-mirza-mahdi-isfahani/reality-salat
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Amin,
I think that does not have any connection to reality.
Sala is basically as according to ancient lexicons and has to do with the following of something which requires an object of sort even if the object can be abstract and, for example, knowledge.
Salat(eh) is the object form of the root making it an object in itself and using the lexical definitions translated as "The Following (trail)", if one does not use my suggestion of guidance. If taken from the perspective of musalla it is the resultant object of the activity of being musalla as when the musalla has laid out a trail, i.e. the "Beacon of Following" or "Set of Footprints" left by salla. Quran itself can be said to contain the Al-Salat, its Al-Ketaab (knowledge).
The sectarian crowd connected salat with that you gain the Al-Salat (blessing/guidance) by observing the old (Pagan) prostration ritual sometimes called 'namaz' which probably predates the Arabic script. It simply became Al-Salat to observe the ritual. Instead rather gaining Al-Salat you can do when you attend a clerical lecture done by a cleric which does not ramble nonsense, but you also gain it by reading Quran for as long as you can understand it. You learn the knowledge of "The Following" (i.e. guidance), "The It to Follow". Sectarians say that you are guided by performing ritual (Contact Prayer) salat, which is right per words but not practice. Sectarians believe in the old Pagan delusion that guidance comes without conscious contemplation but it comes magically alone through worship with no own independent input and mumbling some words will solve everything and keep one from immortality. Rather rituals often help people being mindless (spiritless).
To progress one needs to know what it is they should follow. When you are aware of what to follow (Al-Salat) then you are "remaining attached" or "in contact" or connection since you have synchronized your mind on "The Following" (Al-Salat).
I personally find it easier to use Guidance for the word though which is the result of someone or something acting as beacon to follow.
Guidance in the teaching of Quran is very nonspecific even if there are many rules of thumb and guidelines and one has to attain the same philosophical values as GOD. Out of these philosophical values one leads their life and they are in the so-called 'Ten Commandments'. If one does not agree with these values they are not compatible with GOD and the spiritual image to attain in symbiosis with the 'Rabb'. The consequence is that one becomes an anomaly instead and a kafar (deluded) who has severed connection with the spirit and lives like a beast with instincts (Shaytaan). Therefore Quran says that GOD created 'the senses' (the mind/spirit) out of a pristine model/image. The body (jinn) was created from energy/heat/light. Of course the reference I gave needs reinterpretation and not the sectarian account. The spirit is a mirror of GOD, even if many people have a problem accepting that notion, yet they generally accept (except the most fundamentalist sectarians) how the Universe came into existence from one singularity, a core. The many copies are not supposed to be separate from the original and the goal is to not belong to the world because it taints/clouds the spirit.
Salaam
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in_awe,
It may take a while before it is finished because I am primarily focused on recompiling Quran and its full reinterpretation from scratch ditching all attributed bias but letting the Arabic speak for itself.
I may give focus on those individual passages containing the illusion that Quran has a kind of ritual with timing. Personally I do not perform any ritual because I am convinced by sufficient circumstantial evidence as a result of my work and I skipped focus on those timing passages because they are an interpretation catastrophe requiring careful analysis of the content and I deemed it better to start from scratch as I saw Quran is so poorly interpreted that it needs a total rework. I feel it is odd that no one for over a millennium never saw this who studied Quran. The available interpretations are not even righteous.
Salaam
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Peace Man Of Faith.
I am trying to advise you as a friend. Of course you can take my advice or leave it.
If you believe you are accountable to GOD ,please stop and think about what you are saying in your posts.
For example you said
It may take a while before it is finished because I am primarily focused on recompiling Quran and its full reinterpretation from scratch ditching all attributed bias but letting the Arabic speak for itself.
And this
I may give focus on those individual passages containing the illusion that Quran has a kind of ritual with timing.Does this not imply you have not figured out what salat is in all the verses that deal with "salat" in Qoran?
You are also saying there is" no ritual ",is this not misleading others ?
At least wait until you complete your research?
For now it is better for you to say"I do not know for sure yet".
While you are free to say/do what you choose to do, I am only advising you to be responsible when it comes to what is the truth in GOD s message.
Best of luck with your research.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
good logic,
'I' have figured out what salat is in all passages, but I work on a way to help others and put forth an interpretation that is according to what the author intended. I know what the word means but lack the progress to decipher some passages which are nonsensical as they are now such as 56. You see I actively teach salat on the forum and it is because I confidently know what it means. If it was not here it would be elsewhere. I am both Teacher and Student at the same time.
4101-102 I actually can interpret fairly well now and I can project the real message of it.
I say there is no ritual because the word simply does not mean it. I cannot say "I do not know for sure" because it would be dishonesty. If you asked in 2013 I may have answered "I am not sure but I have a feeling something is not right". The work I am committed to is to aid others and to learn more of what the Arabic intends to convey in terms of knowledge and wisdom but the notion of a ritual I have already rejected as falsehood and a remnant of other doctrines which forced its way into the context as a dishonest interpretation acrobatics.
And I know what I was writing without you quoting them and I have full control and consciousness of it. I wrote "circumstantial evidence" too which means you can prove a point despite that you lack pieces of the puzzle. Also the lacking pieces will eventually find their place, but even with them missing I can inform people of the guile since I can expose ritual salat as false. Multiple passages with alleged timing I have either addressed already or shown the inconsistency in what people claim them to say.
If you read what I wrote to hafez kazi you see further signs of the nonexistent nature of a prayer ritual called salat.
I am hammering out points every other day to convince people and because I am a helpful person I do it since I am not in need of it myself as I am convinced already. If it was not for the grand delusion of a (Pagan) religion and it effects on humanity by a corrupted book through its interpretation I would not be devoted to this work as it is time consuming with hours of analyses and background search, but it is my destiny.
And as for answering before GOD I am not nervous because I act accordingly to the Unity. The progress is due to it.
Anyways, thanks for your concern. But those who invented the interpretation are the ones who should be fearful. I am only purifying it from their ill-deeds.
Salaam
