So did anyone figured out what salat is?

Man_of_Faith

Hawk99,

If my work in progress shows there is no ritual salat then there is no ritual salat, even if it is an ongoing study. Currently I am in progress of a total reinterpretation of Quran and eventually I will come to the passages you refer to. The first part of my interpretation work has revealed a very different Quran to the one we know even without changing a word of the original Arabic and your Allah is not personal address for "GOD" but 'Rabb' is.

I have no disdain to what is right and if GOD inspired there was a ritual I would perform it. The disdain is because it dislike falsehood.

If you like to continue to perform a ritual you can do it and I will not try to stop you, but it is to do like the Pagans and has no relevancy with what the scripture Quran conveys.

Be well

hafeez_kazi

Peace

The believers cannot please Allah by ritually praying (reciting surah fateha plus some other surah, sending salat on the prophet). What has been revealed for us is relayed back to Allah, is there any sense in it?

SAY He is Allah, the One, Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor was begotten. Nor is there to Him any equivalent

Allah commanded the messenger to proclaim it to the people and the same we are proclaiming it to Allah. How silly are Muslims. Allah revealed the whole Quran as a guidance for mankind but the believers are reciting the same guidance back to Allah brickwall

unknownuser

The way I see it, Salat basically means relaying the Koran to people who were (back then) not yet aware of it, and reinforcing its teachings to those who already received it. This was done by means of recitation and discussions done in groups.

So it invloves group attendence. This explains why the Koran stresses cleanliness and non-drunkenness when approaching the Salat. And the "janaba" basically means state of dirty / smelly clothes from travelling, so wash up before you attend Salat, unless you are simply passing by the place where the congregation is being held, and do not mean to sit with the group.

So when you sit with someone who isn't aware of the Koran and relay to him what it teaches, you are basically doing Salat. It is something to be done in the community.

My two cents.

Peace.

hawk99

Hawk99,

eventually I will come to the passages you refer to.

Peace

supply verses saying there are no rituals,
and please, no personal opinions nope

Peace

The believers cannot please Allah by ritually praying (reciting surah fateha plus some other surah, sending salat on the prophet). What has been revealed for us is relayed back to Allah, is there any sense in it?

Peace hafeez kazi

Salat is for the believers well being, Allah has no needs brickwall

God bless

O0

hafeez_kazi

Peace brother pazuzu

The way I see it, Salat basically means relaying the Koran to people who were (back then) not yet aware of it, and reinforcing its teachings to those who already received it. This was done by means of recitation and discussions done in groups.

So it invloves group attendence. This explains why the Koran stresses cleanliness and non-drunkenness when approaching the Salat. And the "janaba" basically means state of dirty / smelly clothes from travelling, so wash up before you attend Salat, unless you are simply passing by the place where the congregation is being held, and do not mean to sit with the group.

So when you sit with someone who isn't aware of the Koran and relay to him what it teaches, you are basically doing Salat. It is something to be done in the community.

I agree with you 100%. One of the meanings of salat is COMMUNION (intimate communication with the people). It is to teach and spread the MESSAGE of Allah.

hafeez_kazi

Peace brother hawk99

Salat is for the believers well being, Allah has no needs brickwall

Such type of salat can never be for believers well being and Allah has no needs. You are right

hawk99

So it invloves group attendence. This explains why the Koran stresses cleanliness and non-drunkenness when approaching the Salat.
Peace.

Peace Pazuzu,

The reason being not because you are in a group which is true but mainly
to be clear about what you are saying.

4/43 O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you
know (well) what you say, nor when you are under an obligation to perform a bath

Peace brother hawk99

Such type of salat can never be for believers

Says who?

May God bless you both

peace

hafeez_kazi

Peace

Such type of salat can never be for believers well being

Somehow you missed it while quoting (well being).

You said

Salat is for the believers well being,

I said

Such type of salat can never be for believers well being

I mean to say ritual prayers can never be for the believers well being.

Thanks

JavaLatte

I like both understandings. Both are lovely, why not doing both?

Teaching and spreading God's messages in congregation, that's of course wonderful and noble.

Doing ritual with obedient heart to Allah is also wonderful, and to be honest, it's beatiful when humble muslims prostrate before Allah (note I'm not referring people like ISIS here).

I think doing ritual prayers could strengthen the connection between a servant with his/her Master, inshaAllah.

hawk99

Peace

I mean to say ritual prayers can never be for the believers well being.

Peace hafeez kazi

I am saying ritual prayers are a good thing, you say they are bad,
you are not forced to make salat, but to say it does not enhanced
the well being of believers is just untrue. I will concede that some
folks do not like it for various reasons like (fard, or no. of rakats
both have no Quranic support) and some folks don't like Ramadan,
but you will be hard pressed to find prohibitions of bowing
and prostrating as per Quran, deniers of ritual salat only
give their personal opinions.

I like both understandings. Both are lovely, why not doing both?

Teaching and spreading God's messages in congregation, that's of course
wonderful and noble.

Doing ritual with obedient heart to Allah is also wonderful, and to be honest, it's
beatiful when humble muslims prostrate before Allah (note I'm not referring
people like ISIS here).

I think doing ritual prayers could strengthen the connection between a servant
with his/her Master, inshaAllah.

Excellent!

God bless you both

hafeez_kazi

Peace hawk99

I have seen the effects and results of the ritual prayer (reciting surah fateha, plus another surah, plus rukuh and sujood and praising Allah three times, sending salat on the prophet and ending with salam). These actions and wordings can never be a cause of the WELL BEING of the believers. You may think so its your wish. I am convinced and confident that the present form of salat is fabricated.

What the sectarians do is RECITE the Quranic verses in their salat, whereas the Quran salat says SAY. There is hell of a difference between RECITE and SAY. I have yet to come across a Muslim who SAYS in his salat.

Why I believe that the present form of salat is fabricated

O you who have believed, do not approach prayer as long as you are intoxicated (not in full possession of senses) UNTIL you know what you are SAYING or in a state of impurity, except travelling on road, until you have washed (BATHED). And if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and find no water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and your hands . Indeed, Allah is ever Pardoning and Forgiving. 443

The Quran says that Muslims should know what they are SAYING in the salat but the joke is that the non Arab Muslims do not even know what they are RECITING in the salat. In the congregation salat Muslims behind the Imam are like spiritually dead people because they cant understand a single word of the imam who is reciting from the Quran.

For me is my salat and for you is your salat.

Thanks

hawk99

Peace hawk99

I have seen the effects and results of the ritual prayer (reciting surah fateha, plus another surah, plus rukuh and sujood and praising Allah three times, sending salat on the prophet and ending with salam). These actions and wordings can never be a cause of the WELL BEING of the believers. You may think so its your wish. I am convinced and confident that the present form of salat is fabricated.

) Peace hafeez kazi

You worry about others and their salat, how Sunni's pray/say/understand
and do etc.,, my advice is for you to correct it and enjoy. Just as we have
removed sectarian influence from the rest of our Islam, we must complete
the transformation by removing such things as "sending salat on the prophet",
"five fard (1)", "set number of rakats", "the finger thing" etc., don't
let those who have corrupted the salat take it away from you. (renew)

God bless

hafeez_kazi

Peace Hawk99

Thanks for your advice.

unknownuser

Peace, hafeez...

Are you sure the instruction is to seek "clean soil / earth" to wipe the face? Or is it to seek out fragrant plants? I am inclined towards the latter, as the adjective "tayyib" indicates that which smells nice, and being plants that grow from the earth.

hafeez_kazi

Peace Pazuzu

Are you sure the instruction is to seek "clean soil / earth" to wipe the face? Or is it to seek out fragrant plants? I am inclined towards the latter, as the adjective "tayyib" indicates that which smells nice, and being plants that grow from the earth.

It makes more sense to wipe the face with fragrant plants rather than wiping with clean soil. The end result of wiping face with fragrant plants is ten times better than the clean soil.

Thanks

hawk99

Peace Hawk99

Thanks for your advice.

Peace hafeez kazi

You are welcome, not to intrude on your space, but a new found peace
I have acquired is to own my salat, that is pray when I can be sincere
from 0 to 5 times a day (shaytayn instituted the "5 "fard" lie) which
can bring out the ingenuousness you refer to, that is why I say it is no. 1
reason why believers bail, (2) say what you need to say and Insha'Allah
you may find that standing, bowing and prostrating are powerful
and connecting when devoid of any harassing, distasteful influences.
(Own your salat)

God bless you

peace

hafeez_kazi

Peace Hawk99

Thanks again for your kind advice. I will try.

good_logic

Peace All.

Brother Hawk, I tend to agree with you here.

May I also add the following ;
6416
Therefore, you shall reverence God as much as you can, and listen, and obey, and give...(Anfiqou, What you can) for your own good. Anyone who is protected from his own...( selfishness/ego...), these are the successful ones.

GOD does not need anything.It is for our own good

2278
You shall strive for the cause of God as you should strive for His cause. He has chosen you and has placed no hardship on you in practising your Deen - the Deen of your father Abraham. He is the one who named you "Muslimeen" originally...
Therefore, you shall observe the Salat and give the Zakat, and hold fast to God; He is your Lord, the best Lord and the best Supporter.

There no compulsion in the Deen.

GOD bless you all.
Peace.

Man_of_Faith

Hawk99,

deniers of ritual salat only
give their personal opinions.

This is a blatant lie. I am performing a comprehensive research on this with astonishing results and they do not stem from my personal opinions. You utter an opinion saying "give their personal opinions". My first trails on this was due to pathetic translations provided on passages containing salat. Then I had no Arabic skill, but now I can deal with it.

You only trigger me to work harder. Wait and get your delusion crushed. You should be convinced already if your mind was open, but if you still deny it when I bring forth the first part of my project for an official release then I have no words for you.

runninglikezebras

Looking at the aramaic origin of the word salat, from the root sla, meaning ?to lay a snare, to incline, to turn towards, to set a trap.?

If you set a trap you plan ahead and take careful preparations. You create the right environment which helps you in achieving your goal and be successful in it. Catching your prey.

Similarly in prayer, when turning towards God (objective) - one creates the right environment and mental attitude which enables you to do so successfully. Be sloppy in the steps before prayer and you will find you might as well have addressed the wall the room you were in. I'm sure people will recognize this.

If this involves bowing, facing a certain direction, making sure you are clean first and those work for you - then I highly recommend you take these steps before addressing God. If they don't then don't.

If people want to call this a ritual, thats fine with me. What matters to me is that I'm pragmatic when I pray. I don't pray in a certain way because of dogma. Nor will I change the way I pray because it is similar to anything traditional. If a certain routine/ritual doesn't help you in turning towards God, by all means change it. There is no compulsion. Some of the preparations made in the method that sectarians pray can be very helpful in achieving this, even logical (eg washing first). When you repeat a certain method frequently it becomes a ritual. A personal ritual.

In a house of prayer it's understandable not everyone can pray in their own unique method. Accidents could happen ) There has to be some uniformity. Differences would lead to debate and thats not what a house of prayer is intended for. If you read Quran carefully you will find out that many of the rules, such as praying direction, are specifically mentioned when communal places of prayer are mentioned.

Peace