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mmkhan

Peace brother hawk99,

Thank you for clarifying your understanding.

That definition of the "Arabic" word Islam in "English" is not supported by alQuraan.
That might be a web definition which is irrelevant.

The way you try to fit your own definition from those 3 aayaat has nothing to do with the real definition of alQuraanic word Islam. In this way I can fit anything that I wanted to, to prove anything I wish

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

hawk99

Peace brother hawk99,

That definition of the "Arabic" word Islam in "English" is not supported by alQuraan.
That might be a web definition which is irrelevant.

Peace mmkhan,

Proof please

Peace brother hawk99,

Thank you for clarifying your understanding.

The way you try to fit your own definition from those 3 aayaat has nothing to do with the real definition of alQuraanic word Islam. In this way I can fit anything that I wanted to, to prove anything I wish

It is not my definition but Merriam-Webster English Dictionary nope
I am only referring to the English definition and not one that suits you. (nice try)

Peace mmKhan,

The question was "is Islam a religion?" therefore I gave you
the "English" definition of Islam then I mentioned the
three ayats to support the conclusion.

Quote from hawk99 on June 19, 2015, 015502 PM

Peace,

Definition of Islam

noun Is?lam \is-l?m, iz-, -lam, is-, iz-\

the religion which teaches that there is only one God and that
Muhammad is God's prophet the religion of Muslims
(You say this definition is not supported by Quran?) nope

The point of 9/31 is there is no deity except Him

9/31 They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and
the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to
worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever
they associate with Him.

The point of 14/52 reinforces this truth

This is notification for the people that they may be warned thereby and that
they may know that He is but one God and that those of understanding will be reminded.

The point of 33/40 is that Muhammad is a messenger of Allah.

Muhammad is not the father of one of your men, but the Messenger of Allah
and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

If you like, reference the three verses with the English definition of Islam.

Have a blessed Ramadan

mmkhan

Peace mmkhan,

Proof please

Peace brother,

Oh I have to prove it? It was not my definition nor I have quoted that definition.
Anyways, proving is easy, it does not support by alQuraan, hence it is not the true definition of Arabic word "Islam".
Now you need to prove it the other way.

It is not my definition but Merriam-Webster English Dictionary nope
I am only referring to the English definition and not one that suits you. (nice try)

I told you already that you might be using a web definition.
Suits me? hmm You have to refer to definition to suit what you have said.

Peace mmKhan,

The question was "is Islam a religion?" therefore I gave you
the "English" definition of Islam then I mentioned the
three ayats to support the conclusion.

Quote from hawk99 on June 19, 2015, 015502 PM

Peace,

Definition of Islam

noun Is?lam \is-l?m, iz-, -lam, is-, iz-\

the religion which teaches that there is only one God and that
Muhammad is God's prophet the religion of Muslims
(You say this definition is not supported by Quran?) nope

The point of 9/31 is there is no deity except Him

9/31 They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and
the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to
worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever
they associate with Him.

The point of 14/52 reinforces this truth

This is notification for the people that they may be warned thereby and that
they may know that He is but one God and that those of understanding will be reminded.

The point of 33/40 is that Muhammad is a messenger of Allah.

Muhammad is not the father of one of your men, but the Messenger of Allah
and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

If you like, reference the three verses with the English definition of Islam.

Peace brother,

Repeating same thing again and again does not make it true. )

Have a blessed Ramadan

Have a blessed Ramadhaan to you brother.
My Ramadhaan is over in May itself. Thanks.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Man_of_Faith

Hawk99,

The word Muslim refers to a person who is sound. Try to make a religion of that.

It is not Quran's fault people have made it into a Pagan cult.

hawk99

Repeating same thing again and again does not make it true.

Peace mmkhan,

However, repeating the truth over and over does make it true.

My Ramadhaan is over in May itself. Thanks.

???

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr

Agreed handshake

The word Muslim refers to a person who is sound. Try to make a religion of that.

It is not Quran's fault people have made it into a Pagan cult.

Peace Man of Faith

You still have not provided your Arabic word for "kill."

May God bless you both

mmkhan

Peace mmkhan,

However, repeating the truth over and over does make it true.

Peace brother,

The truth does not need repetition. I know you will agree with this

???

Yes bro, I live in India so fast accordingly.
May be next year it is not gonna be same as Allah is updating me

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

theAlchemist

As per 5156, we have been created to serve Allah. That means, whatever Allah guides us to or asked us to do, we have to do that way. That is the only way to serve Allah. It is the matter of individuality as we are going to stand in front of our Lord individually to answer for our deeds 1995. If Allah made you understand that you have to do alSalaat 5 times a day or 30 days of alSaum, then you are bound to do so. You cannot see others what and how they are doing.

That means every individual has his/her own personal understand on the basis of what Allah has guided them to. And everyone has their own way towards their Lord, the Creator, Allah alone 548.

Salaam Brother,
Nice thought.Brother don't you think that this type of approach toward Islam or deen (whatever you say) will create dispute among muslims. I think, If this happen everyone will claim themselves the right one only.Then what about communal unity? Its already in our muslim community.Those four Majhab out there are exactly doing this right now. I think ,There are some verses in Quran that command us to do certain thing collectively.
Share your thought on this )

z.neion

mmkhan

Salaam Brother,
Nice thought.Brother don't you think that this type of approach toward Islam or deen (whatever you say) will create dispute among muslims. I think, If this happen everyone will claim themselves the right one only.

Salaam brother,

Thanks.
I don't see that it will arise any dispute among muslims, infact it will protect from disputes.
Claim to be the right one? Claim to whom? Everyone has to claim themselves because everyone is on their own way.

Then what about communal unity? Its already in our muslim community.Those four Majhab out there are exactly doing this right now. I think ,There are some verses in Quran that command us to do certain thing collectively.
Share your thought on this

z.neion

Hmm.. Sorry to say bro, but I don't see any communal unity related aayaat in alQuraan. It is said that all believers are brothers, even with individuality they can be brothers. Because every individual has to get in race to lead the other . No true believer will have to see what others are doing, he will be busy looking at himself and trying to correct in every aspect.

I would be interested in knowing those aayaat that commands us to do certain things collectively.

Those 4 madzhabs are actually creating sects, there is no individuality but all are busy in increasing the sizes of their groups.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

theAlchemist

Salaam brother,

Okay.Lets consider this single verse for example

936 The count of the months with God is twelve months in the book of God the day He created the heavens and the earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight the polytheists collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous

This verse is addressing the believers(Let's assume they are A,B,C by name) to fight against who broke the treaty with muslims.The word for fight in above verse is Qatil .

For example,let's say A thinks Qatil means "x"
B thinks Qatil means "y"
C thinks Qatil means "z"

Now how will they collectively do x/y/z against disbelievers? That's impossible.Take real life example. We are still in dispute about the meaning of Salah let alone how to do it.

I would be interested in knowing those aayaat that commands us to do certain things collectively.

243 And establish prayer and give zakah and bow with those who bow .
555 Verily, your Wali (Protector or Helper) is Allah, His Messenger, and the believers, - those who perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, and they bow down (submit themselves with obedience to Allah in prayer).
2226 anything with Me and purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who ... stand and those who bow and ...
4829 the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the ... among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating , seeking ... the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds ..

Again there are plenty of verses in Quran that start with Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo(I think its plural)

I may be wrong quoting verses.Consider me a novice.

z.neion

FreedomStands

When I see the word qatil I think of throat slitting.

wasi

Salaam,

Islam is not a religion.

then what about

319 Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam

Islam is the way towards Allah. There are many ways to reach to our Lord, Allah. Every individual is guided and leveled up as per his/her level of understanding, surroundings, culture, traditions, etc.

your clear and precise evidence ...

theAlchemist

Salaam brother FreedomStands
Please put this as disclaimer before using such wordWarning - The following description or meaning of word qatil contains information of a violent nature. Continue reading at your own risk.
laugh laugh laugh laugh

hawk99

Peace brother,

The truth does not need repetition. I know you will agree with this

Peace my good brother

You gotta be kidding, the truth does indeed need repetition, please read Quran Kareem.
"Allah is all knowing" is repeated how many times in Quran, prayer and zakat, are repeated
how many times? These are just few examples of How the truth (Quran) is repeated.

Peace brother,
Yes bro, I live in India so fast accordingly.

Good

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr

I agree pr

Man_of_Faith

Hawk99,

Perhaps not, but I am closer now than before. I have not encountered kill yet in my translation work. It is not like Quran speaks of killing every other passage, but I expect it to speak of it when I come to where it speaks about the Ten Commandments.

Qatal means defeat or master someone, but it does not per se imply killing.

Mowt is lifelessness/death.

Anyway, what did that have to do with my post about what Muslim is? Can you tell me?

theAlchemist

Salaam brother,

Okay.Lets consider this single verse for example

936 The count of the months with God is twelve months in the book of God the day He created the heavens and the earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight the polytheists collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous

This verse is addressing the believers(Let's assume they are A,B,C by name) to fight against who broke the treaty with muslims.The word for fight in above verse is Qatil .

For example A may think Qatil means "x" B "y" C "z"

Now how will they collectively do x/y/z against disbelievers? That's impossible.Take real life example. We are still in dispute about the meaning of Salah let alone how to do it.

243 And establish prayer and give zakah and bow with those who bow .
555 Verily, your Wali (Protector or Helper) is Allah, His Messenger, and the believers, - those who perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, and they bow down (submit themselves with obedience to Allah in prayer).
2226 anything with Me and purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who ... stand and those who bow and ...
4829 the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the ... among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating , seeking ... the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds ..

Again there are plenty of verses in Quran that start with Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo(I think its plural)

I may be wrong quoting verses.Consider me a novice.

z.neion

Man_of_Faith

Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo(I think its plural)

Yes. It is plural. Although it is conditional, i.e. it addresses those who do amanoo.

However, aman does not mean what they traditionally imply, but that is another thing.

'Amanoo' means to do something a particular way linguistically (i.e. behave/be a particular way).

The famous prayer ending 'amen' means "(may) it be so", i.e. that something is done accordingly to what has just been uttered.

Be well

theAlchemist

@ Man Of Faith
Salaam Brother,

My previous post was a response to Brother mmkhan.Yeah I know the word Qatal has nothing to do with your post.(Thanks for the meaning )) I cited that for an example,where believers are asked to do something collectively ...as brother mmkhan claimed every one should act individually on what one understand.

Sorry for my English

Thank you.

z.neion

Man_of_Faith

Sorry neion,

I have a habit of jumping in between posts with remarks.

Be well

reel

Peace reel, don't be fooled by such explanations, the facing is for
oneness and uniformity during congregational prayer.

God bless

I agree with you about oneness and uniformity. After finding the truth, however, I learned that the way I love Allah can no longer stay limited to doing ritualistic prayers. And my mom now has given me more faith in the idea that they hardly have much value. I still fully support recital of Surahs. Its in the Quran anyways and they have fulfilled many of my wishes. But can't recitation be a kind of prayer?

When I see the word qatil I think of throat slitting.

Thats what the "groupthink" of scholars conditioned us to believe. MOF is right about the several meanings of qatal.

Man_of_Faith

Reel,

If you can recognize Arabic letters and have Lane's Lexicon (downloadable as a 60MB file as PDF) you can verify my claim personally and see I am rarely mumbling about my arguments in the forun. You will find "to master" and "defeat" as mentioned definitions. Those are also what the word qatal really mean, i.e. to defeat someone no matter the mode, be it verbally or physically. Whether the person dies or not does not come forth by the word alone.

If you put forth an argument and people accept it then you have qatal'ed those who argued against you.

Be well