On intuition and false prophets
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Because the "Sustainer" likes to grow a kind of "super-race".
Gibberish,
all of it.
In your opinion it can be.
One day you will be familiar with the fact it was not gibberish.
Be well Mr. Hicham
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Hello Samira,
It is not sex for pleasure that causes you to end up in endless cycles of Gehennom. It is not becoming a good enough "fruit" that the Sustainer will pick you out that will.
I have however not said that sex for pleasure is forbidden, but it is not your primary objective and there is danger in doing what makes your hormones flow and activate primate instinctive drives. Quran tells a person to abstain from the world and that includes sex as well which is unnecessary if one has the spiritual strength to do this. If the Quran says one should abstain from worldly indulgence then sex is included in that, but it is just a friendly advice just like all words of Quran is.
It is not my opinion, it is the Sustainer's and because this is a contradicition we live in and the body and the world meant as a trap.
The Sustainer does not really forbid anything dogmatically nor do I, but I am posting recommendations.
Not at all. Even if it would theoretically be forbidden, this kind of act is an abomination.
And the Sustainer is explicit that those recommendations or decrees can never be enforced dogmatically, but it is the wise man or woman who follows them and I said I was disappointed because I have enlightened you so much, however I am not more than your teacher. It is up to the student to do what they like with the words, although I feel sad that the student failed the exam. (parable)
I do not understand where you get forbidden from like that I am a zealous or dogmatic cleric. The real word for the lines of the "Ten Commandments" are synonymous with stone in Arabic (Hajjarateh) and implies that something is a prevention or block to not cause a person to do a certain thing, but you can still walk around a stone if you like. The same is true for the Sustainer's advice.
It is not wrong per se and you can have sex with your bondmate that you have become one body with, but one must know sex is an instinctive drive and such is among what should be suppressed for a maximum spiritual ascension. You should not do something when the body tells you to do it but because you do something from your spirit when you see it fit. That is not falling victim to satan.
You misunderstand me. You misunderstand the whole point. The real question is not really just about sex here, but it is about worldly indulgence at all. The one who cannot abstain they are victim of their instincts, but one can be slave to it on different levels. Some give in totally, some have mastered partially.
This is actually irrelevant since it is the giving in to bodily signals that matters, but certainly when you use birth control you are intentionally doing it for pleasure. I have however used birth control myself because I do not want to end up with an army of kids. Lately it is my wife who likes to do this and I do it because I have to. I have my drive under control.
Men and women need to learn that one can love each other through the spirit with something other than sex. The sex reinforces the attachment to body and not spirit.
This is also why you have failed to understand even a tiny word of what I have ever said to you. The world is a deception and was not meant to be enjoyed. It a growing ground for a spiritual being with a body as a distraction.
If you understood this then you would not argue about this sex thing.
Be well
I believe in acting strategically and not just following whims. I tell people that their thoughts should flow freely, and be considered like the weather, influenced by various things like chemicals, but they should not act on them, they should act according to careful strategy. This is because people who follow their whims without any consideration for rightness or compassion or justice often do great evil, they cheat, they end up having random sex, they often don't even realize they are following their animal chemical impulses and often they even justify it and it ends up in more suffering for them and bad decisions.
I've been saying this stuff for years, but nobody listens to me and more and more people keep following their whims and reacting to whatever things come to their mind and doing whatever they feel like at the moment, no impulse control, to their own detriment, and it makes them hateful people as well who are totally untrustworthy scum.
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In your opinion it can be.
One day you will be familiar with the fact it was not gibberish.
Be well Mr. Hicham
I hope to be foremost of the super-race, and I don't mind at all if Man of Faith is with me in that regard. In the meantime, I'll try my best to be foremost of the super-race and hope that I am transformed more and more into that ideal of supreme excellence, loved by all the worlds and God and myself.
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Hello Freedomstands,
You'll all have ample amounts of time to discuss this in hell together (along with me?)
There is no hell to discuss things. The hell is here in this very world. Gehennom is a word for that one is attached to the flesh.
I believe in acting strategically and not just following whims. I tell people that their thoughts should flow freely, and be considered like the weather, influenced by various things like chemicals, but they should not act on them, they should act according to careful strategy. This is because people who follow their whims without any consideration for rightness or compassion or justice often do great evil, they cheat, they end up having random sex, they often don't even realize they are following their animal chemical impulses and often they even justify it and it ends up in more suffering for them and bad decisions.
Exactly. People do not understand that much of what they do in their lives was actually not their conscious decision, but it was the body and satan (instinctive drive) that caused them to do it. Sex is one example of this and that is why I propagate this thing about sex for pleasure. But sex is not forbidden by the Sustainer. This is just a method and advice for maximum spiritual growth.
The Sustainer does not tell everyone to become monks or nuns. That is an individual decision.
I hope to be foremost of the super-race, and I don't mind at all if Man of Faith is with me in that regard. In the meantime, I'll try my best to be foremost of the super-race and hope that I am transformed more and more into that ideal of supreme excellence, loved by all the worlds and God and myself.
In that case there is lot of improvement to be done. You cannot look down on other people, even if they are "lifeless" (al-mowt), amongst other things.
Be well
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The pervert seems to be stuck @M0F!
Help her "separate the spirit from the flesh" dude!
I wouldn't recommend the shortest route to your "goal" tho!That you too would do if you were the slightest wise.
be well
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Hello Freedomstands,
There is no hell to discuss things. The hell is here in this very world. Gehennom is a word for that one is attached to the flesh.
Exactly. People do not understand that much of what they do in their lives was actually not their conscious decision, but it was the body and satan (instinctive drive) that caused them to do it. Sex is one example of this and that is why I propagate this thing about sex for pleasure. But sex is not forbidden by the Sustainer. This is just a method and advice for maximum spiritual growth.
The Sustainer does not tell everyone to become monks or nuns. That is an individual decision.
In that case there is lot of improvement to be done. You cannot look down on other people, even if they are "lifeless" (al-mowt), amongst other things.
Be well
Lots of work to be done, but by constantly working on improving and being the best we can possibly be, we might just make it! Even if we don't, there is nothing better for us than the struggle, though we may despise it, it is not as despicable as those who behave otherwise.
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Hello again Samira,
I have problems with this parable. There is something fishy about it. I suspect the entire story of Adam and Eve, parable or not, to be a purely man-made story, to fill in the gaps where humans are unable to understand, such as why there exists a separation between them and the Source in the first place, and how it was human beings' fault for it that time.
What kind of problem do you have with the story. It is a parable and it is not literally like that. Of course man cannot understand because the Sustainer is like one kind of singularity in which the existence is contained.
You did not read my clarification of the parable or you would see it was never any human's fault but it was an intentional test environment and the "fruit" is indulgence in the world for fruit symbolizes desire due to its sugary contents. Mankind, their spirit, was to be put inside of this "husk". And you see it everywhere you look, people stuck in their bodies. The spirit does not escape just because a person dies but it keeps existing even then. The point here, the spirit which used to be stuck in the body when it dies and is successful and considered a "good fruit" will be picked up by the Sustainer and not having to experience Gehennom which is attachment to the flesh.
Be well
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Man of Faith,
Please do not think that due to some disagreements I did not learn or benefit from you or something. I did, greatly, and you were the one who managed to pull me out of the mainstream version of Islam (where I felt trapped) and to seeing new visions of what is possible. So I am already immensely grateful to you for that. Also I have said several times here here how much I appreciated a number of your ideas and perspectives.
Its difficult to figure out things clearly in this deeply complex world. Which is why I am always on the seek for newer and better perspectives, which would help create a good and peaceful living for humans both in this world and also after death. So yeah.
Peace.
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I don't find that the Qur'an gives permission for multiple wives really. I think it says "you'll never be able to treat them equally, so take one".
Common perspective given by people. In that case, the all-rounder question why did the prophet of the Quran have multiple wives? Check verses 3350 and 661-5. Makes no sense right?
And whats with this fairness and justice stuff? Is that why we get married in the first place? Different civilizations have different reasons for marriage. The mainstream version of the Quran gives one perspective on polygyny as the only other type of union besides monogamy and keeps it timeless. Shouldn't the Quran at least get updated every few centuries to keep up with the rapidly changing civilization?
Peace.
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Common perspective given by people. In that case, the all-rounder question why did the prophet of the Quran have multiple wives? Check verses 3350 and 661-5. Makes no sense right?
And whats with this fairness and justice stuff? Is that why we get married in the first place? Different civilizations have different reasons for marriage. The mainstream version of the Quran gives one perspective on polygyny as the only other type of union besides monogamy and keeps it timeless. Shouldn't the Quran at least get updated every few centuries to keep up with the rapidly changing civilization?
Peace.
If it was updated, when society says it is ok to kill children again it might then be updated to include that. The Prophet was given permission by the Qur'an to have multiple wives, some people might think its just Muhammed giving permission to himself to marry multiple wives, but they are usually imagining he is doing it for lustful reasons, which may or may not be true if any of it is true at all. Yet there are also political reasons for such things in the process of uniting the Arabian tribes and through marks of kinship as Muhammed was establishing a new system, tribe dynamic, and society.
So there may have been more at work than simply wanting sex, which is a more modern idea anyway in many respects. I don't think he was particularly hedonistic, but it was common for leaders and the people to have more than one wife. It doesn't generally work though for the average people often, especially in today's society, but if the verses of the Qur'an are read carefully it may not be that an actual 4 wives for everyone is really permitted, and its also difficult financially.
My usual question to you though is who cares?
I believe one should absolutely and completely reject the Qur'an, I don't understand why people hold on to it simply to argue about it. Throw it in the trash or give it to someone who cares! The book is absolutely worthless to some people, especially when they become absorbed with issues like this which are the least important aspects of the book. If a person is disgusted with the Qur'an they should leave it aside and forget about Islam.
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Salamun Alaikum.
"Marriage" was not created in heaven. Those who believe that marriage ceremony originated when Adam and Eve got married in the heaven in the presence of angels and God - may need to rethink your propositions. Humans, like their predecessors, were by nature polygamous.
In the earliest hunter gatherer human societies there was no need for marriage. Humans could live in tribes, reproduce freely and the tribe would take care of the babies. In those societies the concept of marriage was absent. The earliest religions (e.g. Buddhism) in their original form also do not mandate the "marriage" ritual.
When humans settled down into agricultural society the concept of personal property ownership became important. Individual's property ownership gave the individual an assurance of certain level of quality of living. In this scenario it became important that the society knows who the parents of the kids are, so that the children can be responsibility of the parents and they can inherit from their parents. This need for the society to know the parents led to the innovation of the social ritual named "marriage". However, there was still no requirement for monogamy - virtually in all ancient societies polygamy was socially and morally acceptable. The innovation of marriage is endorsed in the first part of verse 43
43 But if you fear that you would not be able to deal equitably concerning the orphans then marry, who is agreeable for you, of the women in twos or threes or fours...
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
The evolution of the human society did not stop there. Human societies continued to become more and more complex. It was no longer enough to support the children with food and shelter during their childhood. Children needed to be nurtured and educated till their early adulthood. Spouses also needed more financial, social and emotional support from each other to navigate the complex human societies. In such changing scenario it started to become more and more difficult for a husband to deal evenly between multiple spouses. This situation is covered in the second part of verse 43
43 ...But if you fear that you would not deal evenly, then (only) one or upon whom you have confirmed authority (literally what possesses your right hand). That is closer to you not violating.
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) came from a society which was in transition. The nomadic Bedouin society was getting more complex. So, it would not be a surprise that in his personal life we will see reflection of this transition.
Prophets teaching against what they themselves experienced due to prevailing social condition was not the first time in Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Prophet Moses, who was provoked to kill an Egyptian prohibited killing. Prophet Jesus who was himself circumcised due to prevailing Jewish tradition, advised against this practice.
The marriage related verses in Qur'an give us the generic principles for all societies along with insight into the practices of earlier societies.
426 Allah intends to make clear to you and to guide you to customs of those from before you and to relent upon you. And Allah is Knowledgeable, Wise.
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
The key for us is to take the signs from Qur'an and then deciding what is appropriate for us, in our society, in our time. The key is to exercise our God gifted sense of right and wrong in our given circumstances.
2134 That was a community (which has) certainly passed away . What it earned was for it, and what you earn is for you. And you will not be asked about how they used to act.
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Anyway, it shows the mainstream translation version of the Quran is in need of editing in such parts in order to keep it up with the advancing times, where also baby's parents can be easily identified through evolving technology. In other words, this version is not at all a timeless scripture.
Peace
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Anyway, it shows the mainstream translation version of the Quran is in need of editing in such parts in order to keep it up with the advancing times, where also baby's parents can be easily identified through evolving technology. In other words, this version is not at all a timeless scripture.
Peace
Per my reading Qur'an covers the generic understanding which can be taken as the guiding principle throughout all changing times. If a society really comes to a stage where technology has become so advanced that marriage has become redundant (we are definitely not at that stage yet), that situation too is covered by the same verse 43...
"But if you fear that you would not be able to deal equitably concerning the orphans then marry,..." i.e. marriage is mandated only if injustice is feared for the orphans.
Unlike FreedomStands I would not claim anyone "non-muslim" for failing to accept / understand Qur'an. Qur'an is not but a guidance and wise reminder. The true test of muslim is whether one has faith and acts righteously. However I do agree with him that the Qur'an only guides those who approach it with faith and respect.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Per my reading Qur'an covers the generic understanding which can be taken as the guiding principle throughout all changing times. If a society really comes to a stage where technology has become so advanced that marriage has become redundant (we are definitely not at that stage yet), that situation too is covered by the same verse 43...
"But if you fear that you would not be able to deal equitably concerning the orphans then marry,..." i.e. marriage is mandated only if injustice is feared for the orphans.
Unlike FreedomStands I would not claim anyone "non-muslim" for failing to accept / understand Qur'an. Qur'an is not but a guidance and wise reminder. The true test of muslim is whether one has faith and acts righteously. However I do agree with him that the Qur'an only guides those who approach it with faith and respect.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanPer my reading Qur'an covers the generic understanding which can be taken as the guiding principle throughout all changing times. If a society really comes to a stage where technology has become so advanced that marriage has become redundant (we are definitely not at that stage yet), that situation too is covered by the same verse 43...
"But if you fear that you would not be able to deal equitably concerning the orphans then marry,..." i.e. marriage is mandated only if injustice is feared for the orphans.
Unlike FreedomStands I would not claim anyone "non-muslim" for failing to accept / understand Qur'an. Qur'an is not but a guidance and wise reminder. The true test of muslim is whether one has faith and acts righteously. However I do agree with him that the Qur'an only guides those who approach it with faith and respect.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanI just wonder how it could be that a person is supposedly a believer, is shown the Qur'an, and rejects what it says and calls it a book of falsehood or lies. How can that be a believer?
They can do all kinds of good deeds, but then why have they been made one who rejects the good advice?
The Qur'an says
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(As for) those who disbelieve and turn away from Allah's way, He shall render their works ineffective.478
but as for those who are bent on denying the truth, ill fortune awaits them, since He will let all their deeds go to waste492
O you who believe! do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet, and do not speak loud to him as you speak loud to one another, lest your deeds became null while you do not perceive.2523
for We shall have turned towards all the deeds they ever wrought, and shall have transformed them into scattered dust ?553
while those who have attained to faith will say , "Are these the selfsame people who swore by God with their most solemn oaths that they were indeed with you? In vain are all their works, for now they are lost!"917
IT IS NOT for those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God to visit or tend God's houses of worship, the while they bear witness against themselves that they are denying the truth. It is they whose works shall come to nought, and they who in the fire shall abide4733
O you who have attained to faith! Pay heed unto God, and pay heed unto the Apostle, and let not your deeds come to nought!55
Today, all the good things of life have been made lawful to you. And the food of those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime is lawful to you, and your food is lawful to them. And , in wedlock, women from among those who believe , and, in wedlock, women from among those who have been vouchsafed revelation before your time -provided that you give them their dowers, taking them in honest wedlock, not in fornication, nor as secret love-companions. But as for him who rejects belief - in vain will be all his works for in the life to come he shall be among the lost.
See, those who turn away from the reminder, it has quite a bit to say about them
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So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires, but beware of them lest they seduce thee from some part of that which Allah hath revealed unto thee. And if they turn away, then know that Allah's Will is to smite them for some sin of theirs. Lo! many of mankind are evil-livers.740
VERILY, unto those who give the lie to Our messages and scorn them in their pride, the gates of heaven shall not be opened; and they shall not enter paradise any more than a twisted rope can pass through a needle's eye for thus do We requite such as are lost in sin.575
The Messiah, son of Marium is but a messenger; messengers before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman; they both used to eat food. See how We make the communications clear to them, then behold, how they are turned away.586
And (as for) those who disbelieve and reject Our communications, these are the companions of the flame.239
But they who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein.456
for, verily, those who are bent on denying the truth of Our messages We shall, in time, cause to endure fire every time their skins are burnt off, We shall replace them with new skins, so that they may taste suffering Verily, God is almighty, wise.6410
But those who reject Faith and treat Our Signs as falsehoods, they will be Companions of the Fire, to dwell therein for aye and evil is that Goal.4140
And, indeed, He has enjoined upon you in this divine writ that whenever you hear people deny the truth of God's messages and mock at them, you shall avoid their company until they begin to talk of other things - or else, verily, you will become like them. Behold, together with those who deny the truth God will gather in hell the hypocrites,370
O followers of earlier revelation! Why do you deny the truth of God's messages to which you yourselves bear witness?373
And believe not save in one who followeth your religion - Say (O Muhammad) Lo! the guidance is Allah's Guidance - that anyone is given the like of that which was given unto you or that they may argue with you in the presence of their Lord. Say (O Muhammad) Lo! the bounty is in Allah's hand. He bestoweth it on whom He will. Allah is All-Embracing, All-Knowing.
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singling out for His grace whom He wills. And God is limitless in His great bounty."
There seems to be no way around it really. It appears that whoever denies the revelation, is thus a disbeliever when placed under that test, and if they will not be acceptable until they come to believe and practice properly
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With eyes downcast, abasement stupefying them. And they had been summoned to prostrate themselves while they were yet unhurt.930
And the Jews say Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before;Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!The Qur'an is saying "(may) Allah Destroy them".
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Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.I believe the Christians and Jews who are ok are those who were not exposed to the Qur'an and did good and did not do shirk, they may have existed in the times before the Qur'an, but now that the Qur'an is here and in everyone's face even more than ever, if someone is tested with being asked to follow the revelations of Allah and denies them, they are flatly cursed repeatedly and doomed to hell according to the Qur'an. There is no lukewarm
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Then We gave the Scripture as inheritance unto those whom We elected of Our bondmen. But of them are some who wrong themselves and of them are some who are lukewarm, and of them are some who outstrip (others) through good deeds, by Allah's leave. That is the great favour!3132
And if a wave enshroudeth them like awnings, they cry unto Allah, making their faith pure for Him only. But when He bringeth them safe to land, some of them compromise. None denieth Our revelations save every traitor ingrate. -
I just wonder how it could be that a person is supposedly a believer, is shown the Qur'an, and rejects what it says and calls it a book of falsehood or lies. How can that be a believer?
Salam Freedom.
You may have noted from my earlier interactions I do not accept that the terms Mu'min and Kafir refers to believer and non-believer. For me they mean Faithful and (Faith) Repressor. You may find this to be trivial linguistic matter - but I find it a serious misconception.
To have faith in Allah it suffices that one accepts acting upon his God gifted sense of right and wrong as his/her obligation to Allah. Understanding / accepting any specific scripture is NOT a criteria for one to be "muslim"
365 O! Fraternity of the book - why do you debate concerning Abraham while the Torah and the Gospel were not sent down but from after him? So, why do you not understand?
366 Here you are ? the ones who (even) debated about which you had knowledge; then why do you debate about which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows, while you do not know.
367 Abraham did not happen to be a yahudi or a nasara, but rather, he happened to be a precise muslim (i.e. submissive) ? and he did not happen to be among the assigners of partners (to Allah).
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
Consequently Qur'an and Hadith were also not sent down but from after Abraham.
Accepting a sign only becomes mandatory upon the faithful after one has recognized the sign.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salam Freedom.
You may have noted from my earlier interactions I do not accept that the terms Mu'min and Kafir refers to believer and non-believer. For me they mean Faithful and (Faith) Repressor. You may find this to be trivial linguistic matter - but I find it a serious misconception.
To have faith in Allah it suffices that one accepts acting upon his God gifted sense of right and wrong as his/her obligation to Allah. Understanding / accepting any specific scripture is NOT a criteria for one to be "muslim"
Consequently Qur'an and Hadith were also not sent down but from after Abraham.
Accepting a sign only becomes mandatory upon the faithful after one has recognized the sign.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanBut why isn't their "God gifted sense of right and wrong" working when they are faced with the revelations of the Qur'an? How is it right to deny the revelations of God or call them a lie and say (even to oneself) that they are false?
How can it be said, when the Qur'an seems to say that Allah makes them blind, that they are expected to understand (when they Qur'an says they will not understand, and seems to show multiple examples of instances of people who were completely ignorant and remained ignorant, calling them "deaf, dumb, and blind" and basically senseless, unable to perceive and repeatedly saying things like "but they do not know" "they do not understand" and things like that.
How can it be that Allah has chosen a person to be a "Muslim" one who apparently surrenders to Allah, yet that person lies and rejects the truth, and considers it an untruth (or else they would follow it), how can that be "right" and using their sense of "right and wrong"?
Is it not one of the greatest crimes in the Qur'an to utter lies regarding Allah, like for example to say that Allah has not sent the Qur'an, the Qur'an is a lie, that Allah is a lie, or whatever else some of these apparent "muslims" and deniers of the Qur'an might say?
Can you make sense of it to me perhaps?
How can they be expected to believe and understand when the Qur'an says they can not believe nor will the understand but were created particularly for the hellfire, misguided by God personally, and also cursed even further?
I just don't see how a person could supposedly be a heavenly person and then when they are shown the Qur'an's revelations they call it a lie, they deny them, they deny Allah, they deny the messenger, they deny all that, but then do good deeds? The Qur'an says their deeds are rendered completely null and void, because they deny the truth.
How can a truth denier, an illogical person who can not possibly understand, be considered a believer when they utter lies against the Qur'an and Allah?
Why is hell so filled with people and nations, were they all believers who then knowingly concealed the truth? Does anyone really qualify in that regard? No one who truly believes in Allah and knows Allah, who is to be utterly feared, would ever do such a thing. That is why they can never truly be believers, even Satan is a disbeliever because he doesn't comprehend enough fear to avoid the trouble ahead. I think they are "concealed" because the Qur'an repeatedly mentions them being blinded, a veil in-front of them, they are covered up, their hearts or understandings are blackened and covered and wrapped as they are unable to see past the veils or the diseases they have.
Who, if knowing Allah truly and believing truly, would then defy the revelation? It is simply impossible to do so, anyone who would dare to do so clearly does not comprehend, anyone who comprehends would be afraid.
Why then do they say they didn't know when it comes to face them? Isn't it clear that they had no belief whatsoever and so they took the chances they did because they clearly never believed in any of it as coming to face them? They used to call it "magic" and "fairy tales", and they seem to have meant it, because if they really believed in it, they would never deny it, never, because if you know the truth truly, you will never turn your back on it ever. They are literally disbelievers, and Allah has said enough I think to indicate they really can't hear or see or understand at all.
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But why isn't their "God gifted sense of right and wrong" working when they are faced with the revelations of the Qur'an? How is it right to deny the revelations of God or call them a lie and say (even to oneself) that they are false?
Salam FreedomStands.
The key is in the word "when they are faced with the revelations of the Qur'an". If by this phrase you mean when someone recognizes the sign of Allah in Qur'an - yes if that is the case, and one still rejects the sign, then of course they are faith repressors.
However, recognizing the signs of Allah in Qur'an may not be as straight forward as reading the Qur'an or a translation thereof. Nor does everyone have the capacity to do so. There will always be the ones who do not know the book except wishful thinking
278 And among them are the uninformed - they don?t know the book except wishful thinking ? and nor they but believe.
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
As a side question - what is your best estimate of the % of roughly 2 billion "Mainstream Muslims" who have actually read Qur'an cover - to - cover with understanding of the meaning?
Regards,
Arman -
Salam FreedomStands.
The key is in the word "when they are faced with the revelations of the Qur'an". If by this phrase you mean when someone recognizes the sign of Allah in Qur'an - yes if that is the case, and one still rejects the sign, then of course they are faith repressors.
However, recognizing the signs of Allah in Qur'an may not be as straight forward as reading the Qur'an or a translation thereof. Nor does everyone have the capacity to do so. There will always be the ones who do not know the book except wishful thinking
As a side question - what is your best estimate of the % of roughly 2 billion "Mainstream Muslims" who have actually read Qur'an cover - to - cover with understanding of the meaning?
Regards,
ArmanI think only a very, very tiny percentage out of those supposed 2 billion or more "Muslims". Many I've encountered have a poor understanding of the Qur'an and even the Hadith, not knowing much at all, just following traditions in a relatively blind fashion, almost like Christians. I think a person can worship Allah all their life, standing, bowing, and prostrating, and it can all mean nothing if one has not grasped Islam in thought and deed.
I believe one can spend their life in charity, helping the poor and being tireless in goodness apparently, but be a spreader of deceit and lies and harmful, even unknowingly, imagining that they are doing good, and Allah will judge all cases, but I think such can be thrown into hell for their lies or their shirk. It may be that Allah might spare them, but Allah can do whatever at all Allah wills to do.
I don't think they could possibly ever "know" and then while truly and deeply "knowing" they deny it, because if they really "knew" they would never deny it at all.
The Qur'an says things like "if they but knew", which seems to indicate, they did not know, and really were deaf, dumb, and blind.
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Hello Samira,
I am actually fascinated by how modern Quran feels in its language if you interpret it as intended.
Today I noticed this It speaks of what you should say and act like in a lecture about GOD with psychological tricks people used today despite that the book is over thousand years old.
For example, right now I am deciphering on a part about murder and it uses a parable at first instead of moving on to the topic at once and then tells the lecturer to elicit responses and get the crowd to reflect. And it used an immense amount of humor too that I even laughed when I figured out the interpretation because I saw some humor in the parable's contents. One line was "Seek refuge in Being from becoming emotional".
While coming to the point about murder it had covered much of the falsehood that scholars have brought forth about religion along the path, simultaneously.
For those on the forum who are staunch worshipers would be disappointed though because it calls worship practices "dubious" while Being (It) is lifted forth.
Before even coming to the end it had already covered like 4 commandments while not mentioning it explicitly. That I call intelligent.
By the way, they are not called commandments literally but stones, because they are intended as a prevention from going where one should not go. Yet if one likes they can walk around the stone if they insist. So much for religious dogma.
Be well