WHAT DOES QURAN SAY ABOUT BIBLICAL CORRUPTION

[Hizbullah]

Peace

Not really. There is evidence that Muhammad (P) existing during the 7th Century.

http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/earlysaw.html

At that time a certain man from along those same sons of Ismael, whose name was Mahmet , a merchant, as if by God's command appeared to them as a preacher the path of truth. He taught them to recognize the God of Abraham, especially because he was learnt and informed in the history of Moses. Now because the command was from on high, at a single order they all came together in unity of religion. Abandoning their vain cults, they turned to the living God who had appeared to their father Abraham. So, Mahmet legislated for them not to eat carrion, not to drink wine, not to speak falsely, and not to engage in fornication. He said 'With an oath God promised this land to Abraham and his seed after him for ever. And he brought about as he promised during that time while he loved Ismael. But now you are the sons of Abraham and God is accomplishing his promise to Abraham and his seed for you. Love sincerely only the God of Abraham, and go and seize the land which God gave to your father Abraham. No one will be able to resist you in battle, because God is with you.

It is not referring to the Quranic Last prophet of ALLAH - MUHAMMAD - THE PRAISE ONE. The Quranic Last Prophet of ALLAH was descended from Prophet Ishaq and NOT Prophet Ismael. It is referring to someone who took the name of Muhammad.

Q) Where was Prophet Muhammad (P) located?
Q) Any historical / archeological evidence?
Q) If he was supposedly existed before 4th Century, why is it that NOBODY ever mentioned him?

The Prophet was a Rasulan-Nabiy just like Prophet Ismael and Prophet Musa. He was sent to ALL nations.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607488.0

Holy Quran 0279 -So woe to those who write the "Book" with their own hands, then say, "This is from ALLAH ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.
Let?s look at the verse which is one of the Quranic evidence, proving that the Quran was sent down during Nicaea. I will segregate the verse into A & B

A. So woe to those who write the "Book" with their own hands, then say, "This is from ALLAH," in order to exchange it for a small price.
Look at the imperfect verb , shows that the sentence in Present Tense. It proofs that the Quran was sent down during the time when a Book was written. This can only be during the Creed of Nicaea in 325, when the Romans under Constantine created the Bible. This was the time when the distortion of the Book of ALLAH started.

If you read it in the context it's talking about Jews corrupting the scriptures.

Please read 270-79.

275 Do you expect that they will believe you when a party of them hear the Word of ALLAH, then alter (yuarrifnahu) it after they have understood it, and they well know the consequences thereof.
278 Among them are gentiles who do not know the scripture, except through hearsay, then assume that they know it.

There were no gentiles in Council if Nicea.

I can be wrong but are you emphasizing that Muhammad (P) was near NIcea?

If you read the verses in context you will find that they were not Jews. Jews are consider "People of the Book". The verse says..

278 Among them are UMMIYUNA - WHO HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE BOOK EXCEPT HEARSAY and indeed they only conjectured.

UMMIYUNA means those who have no knowledge of the Book. So it is not referring to the Jews but to the Greco-Romans who have no knowledge of the Book of Musa. They were the ones who created the NT and distort the OT .

Also please read 0320

So if they dispute with you say "I have submitted myself to Allah, and (so have) those who follow me.'' And say to those who were given the Book (Jews and Nasara) and to those who have no knowledge of the Book "Do you (also) submit yourselves'' If they do, they are rightly guided; but if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message; and Allah sees the servants.

There is no historical proof of Constantine paying churches to agree upon one canon. What is the author's source if this information?
The First Council of Nicea purpose was settlement of the Christological issue of the nature of the Son of God and his relationship to God the Father(addressing Ariunism heresy),the construction of the first part of the Creed of Nicaea, establishing uniform observance of the date of Easter, and promulgation of early canon law.
And definitely, nobody was writing books in Council of Nicea.

Quranic evidence proof that the church was bribed.

So woe to those who write the "Book" with their own hands, then say, "This is from ALLAH," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

Christianity was established officially in 4th Century CE by Constantine. It is plausible his father Constantius I, had plan of its doctrine and some scriptures were wrote prior to the Creed of Nicea.

The ANTIQUITY of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament).

Constantine needed some religious literature that was old, which was NOT Greek, and which could be used as a platform. It had to have an antiquity comparable to the Greek and Egyptian histories. Somehow, he came across the Hebrew Bible - possibly in the library of Caesarea, and possibly translated by Origen. of ALLAH! He was commanded to instruct them...

0568 - Say, "O People of the Book, you are on nothing until you uphold the Taurat and the Injeel and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people.

AQ 0515 O People of the Book, there had come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you conceal of the Book and obliterate much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book.

The above verse proofs that the last Prophet came at the time when the hidings and obliteration of the Book were being carried out and at the time when the Quran was first sent down.

Not historically true. This is religious conspiracy theory. Internet scholarship. I would highly recommend Prof. Bart Ehrman's lectures From Jesus to Constantine on early Christian history.

You can call what ever you want to. It does not matter to me. What matters to me most is the Quran. The Quran show me the history of it and the Last Prophet.

These are the verses of ALLAH which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement after ALLAH and His verses will they believe?

So Mr Tarek, whose words do you trust, our CREATOR or Prof. Bart Ehrman's?

Questions

1. How do you know Quran was written in the 4th Century?

2. How did the ARABS get their hands on the Quran?

3. Who started this conspiracy?

4. When was this conspiracy started?

5. Whose graves are in Al-Masjid an-Nibali, Medina, Saudi Arabia?

6. Who were Abu Bakr, Omar, Usman and Ali? Were they legend?

7. If Muhammad (P) existed during 4th Century, don't you think his tomb would have been visited by Muslims?

8. Grammatical rules tells me that the Quran was written in the 3rd / 4th Century.

9. The Quranic Last Prophet of ALLAH was sent to nations, the Arabs was / are one of them.

10. The Arabs

11. 5th Century, when the cursive musnad script of the Quran was change to Jazm script. That was the beginning of the Arabization of the Middle East. The Sanaa Codex was written in the Jazm script. That means, the Quran was already present before the birth of the so called Arab prophet in the 570 CE. The Kufic script of the Quran was first used by the Abbassiah Caliphate in the 7th Century when they established themselves in Kuffah, the present Iraq.

12. No one

13. They were all fictitious character just like Khadijah and Aishah

14. For what? so that the muslims would become prophet worshipper where we can see for ourselves at present in Medina. Millions of Muslims went there and worship the so called Arab prophet.

Peace

[tarekkhan29]

Hizbullah,

The 3rd / 4th Century CE was the era of corruption of the first edition of the Book of ALLAH. I reject the legend that it was circulated by Ptolemy of Egypt in the 2nd century BCE on the basis of zero evidence.
The above verse proofs that the last Prophet came at the time when the hidings and obliteration of the Book were being carried out and at the time when the Quran was first sent down.
If Prophet Muhammad?s ministry was in the 7th Century CE, 300 years after Nicea, what is the point of warning when the Book had already been distorted! Do you think is going to be easy.

That is totally incorrect. Torah was textually corrupted even before the arrival of Jesus(P) let alone Muhammad(P). How do we know that? Read Jeremiah 88

?How can you say, ?We are wise, and the law (Torah) of the LORD is with us??
But behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

Here Jeremiah is admitting that scribes had perverted the truth of the law (Torah) into a lie.

Secondly, Deut 34 which is a last book of Torah (supposedly authored by Moses) talks about his funeral, is now widely accepted by both Jewish and Christian scholars as a fabrication and interpolation.

Deuteronomy 345
5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD, 6 and he buried him in the valley in the land of Moab opposite Beth-peor; but no man knows the place of his burial to this day.
7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died; his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
8 And the people of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days; then the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended.

Comments
Some say that this was written by Joshua (Rabbi Abraham Ben Meir Ibn Ezra)

It is indeed not authored by Moshe. Perhaps either Joshua or one of his followers. (Torah- The Modern Commentary by Rabbi Gunther Plaut).

Thirdly, the translation of Old Testament from Hebrew to Greek (Septuagint LXX) has lots of mistakes in it (which existed before Prophet Muhammad (P)) as compared to Masoretic Text.

So your ?The 3rd / 4th Century CE was the era of corruption of the first edition of the Book of ALLAH? theory goes out of the window.

Christianity was established officially in 4th Century CE by Constantine. It is plausible his father Constantius I, had plan of its doctrine and some scriptures were wrote prior to the Creed of Nicea.
The ANTIQUITY of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament).
Constantine needed some religious literature that was old, which was NOT Greek, and which could be used as a platform. It had to have an antiquity comparable to the Greek and Egyptian histories. Somehow, he came across the Hebrew Bible - possibly in the library of Caesarea, and possibly translated by Origen. .

?Greco-Romans ?not only had knowledge of Book of Moses but also the entire Old Testament. They had Septuagint (LXX) is their possession which is a Greek translation of Hebrew Bible.

Just try to understand the fallacy in your statement. Let?s say for the sake of argument I agree with you. If they have NO knowledge of the book, then how can they corrupt it? How can you corrupt something of which you don?t possess no knowledge of? Secondly, how did you reach the conclusion that the verse 278 is talking about Book of Moses? If so then how come New Testament quotes Torah (Book of Moses) 100 TIMES. How can they quote Torah if they don?t have any knowledge about it? That doesn?t make any sense.

Now let?s talk about who corrupted the scriptures in 275-278

275 Do you then hope that they(the Jews)would believe in you, and a party from among them(the Jews) indeed used to hear the Word of Allah, then altered(yuarrifnahu) it after they(the Jews) had understood it, and they(The Jews) know

(So it is established here beyond the show of the doubt that Jews did corrupt the scriptures)

276 And when they (The Jews) meet those who believe they say We (The Jews) believe, and when they (The Jews) are alone one with another they say Do you talk to them (The Jews) of what Allah has disclosed to you that they (The Jews) may contend with you by this before your Lord? Do you not then understand?

277 Do they not know that Allah knows what they keep secret and what they make known?

278 Among them are gentiles who do not know the scripture, except through hearsay, then assume that they know it.

(Gentiles do not know the scripture. They except through heresay.)

279 Therefore, woe to those (The Jews) who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what GOD has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains.

?Woe to those!? Who is this referring to? This is NOT referring to the Gentiles, because they had no knowledge of the book hence they cannot corrupt it. But rather it?s referring to the people who altered / wrote / added / edited book of Allah i.e The Jews. How do we know this? Go back to 275 it clearly states that the Jews distorted (yuarrifnahu) the scripture.

So Mr Tarek, whose words do you trust, our CREATOR or Prof. Bart Ehrman's?

I agree with Quran where religious guidance is concerned. I also agree with Prof. Bart Ehrman where his expertise in the field are concerned. They are not in contradiction. What I don?t agree with is your interpretation imposed on the text. One that?s not consistent with the biblical history, one that is not consistent with historical context within the Quran.

Mr. Hizbullah I am staying with somebody and my access to computer is very limited. I?ll get back to the Prophet Muhammad?s lineage and the proof of his existence in 7th century using non Islamic sources in a week or so.

I do appreciate your time and your true efforts.

Peace.

[almarh0m]

Salamun Alaykum

Firstly, I would like to ask what "Biblical Corruption"? Secondly, if The Bible was a truly book from Allah than it is impossible for it to be corrupted. If one believes that the Bible is the lost Torah and Injeel, then they are accusing Allah or The God of failing to protect His words. As I do not believe The Bible is a book of revelation/message from God, there is no corruption in it. We either take what is good from it and apply it in our lives or treat the people who believes in them with respect regardless of our view of The Bible.

As for what The Qur'an say about corruption/invention of "holy books/writings, The Qur'an is very clear on that. Please read Qur'an 278-79 and 378-79. My own understanding is that the so called Bible has nothing to do with either Taurat and injeel but is is a compilation of many writings and extracts from various other writings which predated the the Bible as we know it today. although, there is no doubting about some verses of the Taurat and injeel somehow found their way into the bible, by no means renders the bible a "corrupted copy" of the Torah or Injeel. It is worth a look at what Allah and His Messenger say in The Qur'an regarding Unchange-ability or Un-alterability of the words of God as we shall see below;

6114...... Afaghayra Allahi abtaghee hakaman wahuwa allathee anzala ilaykumu alkitaba mufassalan waallatheena ataynahumu alkitaba yaAAlamoona annahu munazzalun min rabbika bialhaqqi fala takoonanna mina almumtareena

Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

6115......Watammat kalimatu rabbika sidqan waAAadlan la mubaddila likalimatihi wahuwa alssameeAAu alAAaleemu

The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice None can change His words for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all.

From this verse ( 6115), it is safe to conclude that the words of god cannot be changed or corrupted by any human or Jinn.

Salam

almarh0m

[Man_of_Faith]

?How can you say, ?We are wise, and the law (Torah) of the LORD is with us??
But behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

They basically corrupted the two first commandments and reinforced the third to exaggerated levels, i.e. no vain talk, meaning no one can even question anything or have a hard time doing it without people telling them they are indulging in "vain words".

The corruption of the two first commandments is really having a huge impact on the faith. The first was to keep inseparably to the Being of unity and the second was not to erect any image of anything from either Heaven (abstract) or Earth (physical) and worship it.

Both were bitterly corrupted into heavily making a separation of the Sustainer phenomenon while it was never intended to be separate from oneself. The Sustainer said to Moses "I am who am I" and that is the third-person meaning of allah since then although clerics have corrupted is due to sinister motives or merely ignorance.

Rabb is the word for "God" although they are not equal in meaning and not allah and has always been. No righteous person says ya allah in Quran for a reason and why it is narrated in plural reference very often.

Be well

[FreedomStands]

Salamun Alaykum

Firstly, I would like to ask what "Biblical Corruption"? Secondly, if The Bible was a truly book from Allah than it is impossible for it to be corrupted. If one believes that the Bible is the lost Torah and Injeel, then they are accusing Allah or The God of failing to protect His words. As I do not believe The Bible is a book of revelation/message from God, there is no corruption in it. We either take what is good from it and apply it in our lives or treat the people who believes in them with respect regardless of our view of The Bible.

As for what The Qur'an say about corruption/invention of "holy books/writings, The Qur'an is very clear on that. Please read Qur'an 278-79 and 378-79. My own understanding is that the so called Bible has nothing to do with either Taurat and injeel but is is a compilation of many writings and extracts from various other writings which predated the the Bible as we know it today. although, there is no doubting about some verses of the Taurat and injeel somehow found their way into the bible, by no means renders the bible a "corrupted copy" of the Torah or Injeel. It is worth a look at what Allah and His Messenger say in The Qur'an regarding Unchange-ability or Un-alterability of the words of God as we shall see below;

6114...... Afaghayra Allahi abtaghee hakaman wahuwa allathee anzala ilaykumu alkitaba mufassalan waallatheena ataynahumu alkitaba yaAAlamoona annahu munazzalun min rabbika bialhaqqi fala takoonanna mina almumtareena

Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

6115......Watammat kalimatu rabbika sidqan waAAadlan la mubaddila likalimatihi wahuwa alssameeAAu alAAaleemu

The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice None can change His words for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all.

From this verse ( 6115), it is safe to conclude that the words of god cannot be changed or corrupted by any human or Jinn.

Salam

almarh0m

If anything is corrupted, it is God who corrupted it ultimately.

[Layth]

Peace,

Musadiqan is closest to 'affirming'. The prophets affirmed what was previously revealed (they did not sanction what existed as is but revealed its corrections'. The request is for these people to rule by 'what God sent down', not 'by what they had' (there is a big difference in that small choice of words).

[FreedomStands]

Peace,

Musadiqan is closest to 'affirming'. The prophets affirmed what was previously revealed (they did not sanction what existed as is but revealed its corrections'. The request is for these people to rule by 'what God sent down', not 'by what they had' (there is a big difference in that small choice of words).

I like that!

[Armanaziz]

Salamun Alaikum.

For me 544-48 gives sufficient ground to believe that the Torah and Gospel were adequately preserved (at least till the time of Qur'an) for their respective communities to use them as shir'a (menifesto) and minhaz (open path).

However, I agree with MoF that we need to be careful about what Torah and Gospel mean. At least from Quranic perspective Torah is limited to the Law sent down on Moses and Gospel is the teaching of Jesus. While the book named "Bible" may contain the essence of Torah and Gospel in it, it also contains a lot of fables and conjectures added up by the scribes. So if the community of Torah and Gospel leave the core teaching in favor of those fables and conjectures that will be for their own detriment, just like for the community of Qur'an, if we leave the Qur'an in favor of fables and conjectures in the name of hadith - that will be for our own detriment.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

[huruf]

That is the question, the nefarious habit of considering automatically that the Tawrah and the inyil that the Qur'an speaks about as The old testament and the new testament which make up the bible. That is the founding error from which all confusion ensues. That is very good for those fake christians or muslims who are interested in that linking, but it is not good at all for the sake of clarity and rigorous thinking.

That is also why I htink it is better most of the time to stick strictly to Qur'anic original terms, the same when we are dealing of prophets names. We cannot assign to the Qur'an assertions which are only made when translating something into something else taking it for granted.

Salaam

[FreedomStands]

That is the question, the nefarious habit of considering automatically that the Tawrah and the inyil that the Qur'an speaks about as The old testament and the new testament which make up the bible. That is the founding error from which all confusion ensues. That is very good for those fake christians or muslims who are interested in that linking, but it is not good at all for the sake of clarity and rigorous thinking.

That is also why I htink it is better most of the time to stick strictly to Qur'anic original terms, the same when we are dealing of prophets names. We cannot assign to the Qur'an assertions which are only made when translating something into something else taking it for granted.

Salaam

I'll add to that by saying the Bible is really hideous.

[huruf]

Already when translating froma semitis language to another there is a leap, the books of the old testment were translated to greek and the hebrew we have today is a translation from greek "back" to hebrew. Besides it is obvious, and bible followers, jews and christians have never hidden or pretended that it is not so, that the bible is not straight revelation from God but a mixture of material, some of it inspired. So it is no insult or demeaning of their religion to acknowledge something that they themselves know and accept. What is surprising is the attempt by some muslims to put the bible on the same standing as the Qur'an. Those christians or any other religion that consider the Qur'an a fake are in their right to think whatever they want of it, but it is indeed surprising that those who uphold the Qur'an want to give it the same standing that they give other scriptures which even those who have them as "their" scriptures vouch for them only up to a point.

The Bible, as you Freedom... say, has parts which are really shocking and disgusting.

Startin early that part of genesis 3.

To the woman he said,

?I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.?

Childbirth pains as punishment for women is really vicious, and the second part

Your desire... which I think hss been embellished from earlier versions which were obviously rude and distasteful, puts is mildly but amounts to the same, and even the new formulation look a bit lame aas to expression. Nevertheless we get it, you will pant for the stud as a bitch and he will hand you as such.

Just that part is sufficient to run away a never look back. That cannot hsve bene written by a any man and I do not believe God has said it. Must have been some sick, deseased, male full of resentment for the womenfolk.

On the other hand the same genersis in 2. says something different, like this

So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

That is more like the Qur'an, de simultaneous creation of both sexes. Then after it comes with the Adam and Eve stuff and goes haywire.

Obviously there must be a historical explanation for that Adam and Eve stuff, but then nothing to do with revelation and real creation as determined by God.

There hundreds more of shocking bible stuff but that is a handfull to start with.

Salaam

[FreedomStands]

Already when translating froma semitis language to another there is a leap, the books of the old testment were translated to greek and the hebrew we have today is a translation from greek "back" to hebrew. Besides it is obvious, and bible followers, jews and christians have never hidden or pretended that it is not so, that the bible is not straight revelation from God but a mixture of material, some of it inspired. So it is no insult or demeaning of their religion to acknowledge something that they themselves know and accept. What is surprising is the attempt by some muslims to put the bible on the same standing as the Qur'an. Those christians or any other religion that consider the Qur'an a fake are in their right to think whatever they want of it, but it is indeed surprising that those who uphold the Qur'an want to give it the same standing that they give other scriptures which even those who have them as "their" scriptures vouch for them only up to a point.

The Bible, as you Freedom... say, has parts which are really shocking and disgusting.

Startin early that part of genesis 3.

To the woman he said,

?I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.?

Childbirth pains as punishment for women is really vicious, and the second part

Your desire... which I think hss been embellished from earlier versions which were obviously rude and distasteful, puts is mildly but amounts to the same, and even the new formulation look a bit lame aas to expression. Nevertheless we get it, you will pant for the stud as a bitch and he will hand you as such.

Just that part is sufficient to run away a never look back. That cannot hsve bene written by a any man and I do not believe God has said it. Must have been some sick, deseased, male full of resentment for the womenfolk.

On the other hand the same genersis in 2. says something different, like this

So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

That is more like the Qur'an, de simultaneous creation of both sexes. Then after it comes with the Adam and Eve stuff and goes haywire.

Obviously there must be a historical explanation for that Adam and Eve stuff, but then nothing to do with revelation and real creation as determined by God.

There hundreds more of shocking bible stuff but that is a handfull to start with.

Salaam

Yeah, I wonder how many people got to the part about the concubine of the guy who was gang raped all night to death then chopped up by her husband who handed her over to be gang raped and considered just, sending her body parts to all the "Judges" lol What about Abraham pimping out his wife, or Lot being drunk and his daughters doing incest, and Noah cursing his grandson because his son saw him drunk and naked, or Jacob tricking his father and betraying his brother and stealing his blessings even by force by depriving him of food, and sleeping with another woman because he couldn't see her quite well enough, and other vile crap in a book of endless crap with entire sections devoted to sprinkling blood on curtains and killing your children and whatever else.

To hell with that putrid book and everyone who loves it, it is pure Satanic trash.

Thank God there is the Qur'an. Those who despise the Qur'an, I hope they suffer. I have nothing but malice for them, who hate a book of such grace and beauty and love wickedness because of their diseased understandings.

The Bible is so scant on anything good in it, its so deprived, its even worse than being in the dessert, its like being in a sewer or garbage dump. Even a garbage dump is less morally perverted and filthy than the Bible.

Who here loves that book and speaks of it fondly?

[good_logic]

Peace All.
In defence of the bible
Are we throwing all the bible away because of some human injected contradictions and nonsense in it?

Have the traditional Islamic scholars not hijacked Qoran and inserted all sorts of distortions in the interpretations and meanings of GOD s words?

The same thing happened to the bible!!! Human fables and nonsense injected here and there to create doctrines and to mislead insincere folk as per GOD s plan.

GOD s plan is to throw the truth at falsehood and to give falsehood a "big headache" by preserving the "master tablet "of Qoran to confirm the truth for the "curious and sincere searchers " of GOD s truth.

What Qoran confirms as the truth ,will be taken from the bible. What Qoran rejects /does not agree with,must be rejected from the bible.

Yes, there are a mixture of truth and nonsense in the bible. What is contradiction and nonsense must be rejected.

However to reject all the bible as nonsense is simply not Qoranic.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Armanaziz]

Yeah, I wonder how many people got to the part about the concubine of the guy who was gang raped all night to death then chopped up by her husband who handed her over to be gang raped and considered just, sending her body parts to all the "Judges" lol What about Abraham pimping out his wife, or Lot being drunk and his daughters doing incest, and Noah cursing his grandson because his son saw him drunk and naked, or Jacob tricking his father and betraying his brother and stealing his blessings even by force by depriving him of food, and sleeping with another woman because he couldn't see her quite well enough, and other vile crap in a book of endless crap with entire sections devoted to sprinkling blood on curtains and killing your children and whatever else.

To hell with that putrid book and everyone who loves it, it is pure Satanic trash.

Thank God there is the Qur'an. Those who despise the Qur'an, I hope they suffer. I have nothing but malice for them, who hate a book of such grace and beauty and love wickedness because of their diseased understandings.

The Bible is so scant on anything good in it, its so deprived, its even worse than being in the dessert, its like being in a sewer or garbage dump. Even a garbage dump is less morally perverted and filthy than the Bible.

Who here loves that book and speaks of it fondly?

I do.

Because I have faith in Qur?an and because Qur?an asks us to have faith in what was sent down before us.

Whatever vile things you say about Bible ? equally bad things and worse can be said about hadith ? which is the new ?bible? for majority of the ?Mainstream Muslims?.

Even if we talk specifically about Qur?an, faultfinders can bad mouth the book for unfair treatment of women, promoting killing and hatred and so on. It is all a matter of how the reader takes the text.

On the other hand, those who are rightly guided by their Master will find guidance in Qur?an, in Hadith and even in Bible. The same Bible that inspired crusaders, did also inspire Florence Nightingle and Mother Teressa. The same Qur'an that inspires ISIS and Boko Haram also inspires you and me.

Ever heard of ?Jefferson Bible?? If not it would be a good idea to find out which ?Bible? served as the spiritual backbone for the establishment of the United States.

If we turn away from the Bible calling it ?satanic? ? we will lose the teaching of the Christ. If we lose the teaching of the Christ we will lose much of the context upon which Qur'anic philosophy is built and it will be one step easier to promote ?jihadism? based on arbitrary interpretation of Qur?an. The teaching of Qur?an must be understood in light of what Christ has taught us. Qur?an never encourages us to take it in isolation ? it always encourages to have faith in what has been sent down to us as well as what was sent down before us. So, do not be deluded that Qur?an has rendered the Christ irrelevant ? The Christ never died. No! Allah raised him towards Him and Allah happens to be Mighty, Wise. And not is there any among the fraternity of the book - but to place faith in him for sure - before his death; and on the day of rising, he will be a witness upon them.

The scripture and doctrine of the Jews and Christians have their fair share of corruption ? like do those of the people who call themselves "Muslim". But wholesale rejection and bad mouthing about the scripture of other religions will not make us more ?righteous?.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

[huruf]

Yes, Good logic we must take whtever is confirmed by the Qur'an but that not only in the case of the bible, but in all cases. There are many religious traditions which contain WONDERS, MARVELLOUS GUIDE, and people reject it outright with no compunction, for the sake of some thing that shocks. Many bible preachers throw away whole religious traditions on account of some obviously wrong saying and psuh the bible down many throats in replacement for much better thinkings.

So what we say about the bible should be universally applied and not make the bible into something sacred sas against the whole series of religious traditions, which if I am not worng they all also come from some real revelation and may have been aprtially corrupted.

I have nothing against the bible per se, but I hve a lot into it being made "the book" not just against th Qur'an but in oblivious of all the mercies revealed by God all over humanity. I hold that not against the bible but against the bible pushers. It is just one book or religious tradition amonst many and certainly not necessarily the best, and when I say the best I do not say against the Qur'an, the Qur'an is the khatam, the contrast to all revelations or traditions, but against other traditions. It is only understandable through the cultural rule of the bible "people", minly of european stock that rule the world culturally, economically, politically, etc. To sum up an imperial dominion, which rules in the religious as well as in others domins.

So the bible is not just a spiritual (not all of it) book, but the "spiritual book" of the de facto empire. That must not be forgotten. Which again should not be hold against the bible per se, but should be taken into account if we do want to have a real perspective on human religion. Human religion is not the Qur'an and the bible, but the Qur'an and ALL the religious, spiritual and inspired traditions of all the peoples of humanity.

Salaam

[FreedomStands]

I do.

Because I have faith in Qur?an and because Qur?an asks us to have faith in what was sent down before us.

Whatever vile things you say about Bible ? equally bad things and worse can be said about hadith ? which is the new ?bible? for majority of the ?Mainstream Muslims?.

Even if we talk specifically about Qur?an, faultfinders can bad mouth the book for unfair treatment of women, promoting killing and hatred and so on. It is all a matter of how the reader takes the text.

On the other hand, those who are rightly guided by their Master will find guidance in Qur?an, in Hadith and even in Bible. The same Bible that inspired crusaders, did also inspire Florence Nightingle and Mother Teressa. The same Qur'an that inspires ISIS and Boko Haram also inspires you and me.

Ever heard of ?Jefferson Bible?? If not it would be a good idea to find out which ?Bible? served as the spiritual backbone for the establishment of the United States.

If we turn away from the Bible calling it ?satanic? ? we will lose the teaching of the Christ. If we lose the teaching of the Christ we will lose much of the context upon which Qur'anic philosophy is built and it will be one step easier to promote ?jihadism? based on arbitrary interpretation of Qur?an. The teaching of Qur?an must be understood in light of what Christ has taught us. Qur?an never encourages us to take it in isolation ? it always encourages to have faith in what has been sent down to us as well as what was sent down before us. So, do not be deluded that Qur?an has rendered the Christ irrelevant ? The Christ never died. No! Allah raised him towards Him and Allah happens to be Mighty, Wise. And not is there any among the fraternity of the book - but to place faith in him for sure - before his death; and on the day of rising, he will be a witness upon them.

The scripture and doctrine of the Jews and Christians have their fair share of corruption ? like do those of the people who call themselves "Muslim". But wholesale rejection and bad mouthing about the scripture of other religions will not make us more ?righteous?.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

Just to clarify though, the Hadith honestly (however crude and ridiculous it is) does not have anything as close to the level of stuff in the Bible, particularly the Old Testament but including parts of the New Testament slightly as well.

It makes good sense that if the Bible is the "spiritual backbone" of "The Great Satan" America, that the whole nation and its foundation was corruption from the start. Which started with genocide in the Biblical model, where the Native Americans were taken to be the new pagan Canaanites to be slaughtered en masse in the name of God's Country.

I think people just try to soothe themselves. One mustn't sit in approval of injustice and evil. What the Bible and the Hadith says which is good, no argument about it, but what it says that is vile, an argument should be made and it should be recognized as vile.

Mother Theresa, there is some bad writing about her too, of how she allowed people to suffer instead of getting them the proper medical treatments and things of that sort, you can read about that (brought up by Atheists and others, and yes, they will say bad things about the Qur'an too).

The "Teaching of Christ" is certainly worth "losing", because if we were to follow it closely in at least a literal way (as some less cowardly or "simple minded" people might), we would then chop off our hands and feet, and kill ourselves too. To hell with "Christ", the false deity of their imagination, just like the other "Gods" they adore.

Look what a cruel and despicable person he was in the New Testament, and they praise him and glorify him, even Atheists often speak fondly of this character. Look how he treated his mother, his associates, and how a woman begging for help for her child he ignored her and made her crawl and then insulted her on top of it and praised the wicked ones who had tormented those people throughout the Bible. This is the role model? Has anyone read what he supposedly said? How poor his explanations were, how idiotic the religion proposed?

(I believe in the protection and maintenance of the Bible and studying it and keeping it safe) BURN THE BIBLE! Throw it in the fire! Just like Jesus supposedly said that if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out, take that sinful wicked book and destroy it.

I also like when people burn the Qur'an in their ignorance, destroying their ability to read it. Only a truly Malicious Force could think of something as insidiously simple as that. A malice even greater than mine.

The teachings of the Qur'an should be taken in light of what "Christ taught us"?

Oh alright

"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.?? Luke 1927

Boko Haram it is! Hail to ISIS (Throne/Dominion of AMUN).

No! Everything should be interpreted in "light of" goodness and compassion and justice tempered with mercy. Not Christ, Not Hadith, Not anything but goodness. If the Qur'an says something, we take the interpretation that is most useful, but we don't lie about it and say that it never said such and such. If the Qur'an gave some terrible advice, then we should point it out.

[huruf]

Just as we have in the bible a chosen people, it seems that some people behave with the bible as if ti was the chosen book, just like that. Not for this or for that but that it is chosen.

Again what was revealed before is everything that was revesled not just those things in the bible that we think were revealed, and even more than that. In the praise of the bible everything becomes a whole that is chosen, no matter the straneous things and nothing telling us what is purported to be revealed and what is purported not to be revealed.

Why do we disregard other religious and spiritual heritage and put the bible in a pedestal from which much better things are excluded?

Salaam

[Armanaziz]

Salamun Alaikum.

It makes good sense that if the Bible is the "spiritual backbone" of "The Great Satan" America, that the whole nation and its foundation was corruption from the start. Which started with genocide in the Biblical model, where the Native Americans were taken to be the new pagan Canaanites to be slaughtered en masse in the name of God's Country.

Wow so now we are adopting Iranian Foreign policy language as our unofficial ?tounge?? Why don?t you do yourself a big favor then. Just like you were preaching Man of Faith to practice what he writes the other day ? why don?t you do yourself a big favor by detaching all association from the ?Great Satan? and seek refuge in God?s land in Iran / Saudi Arabia / Iraq or Syria? Or are you convinced Satan has taken over the entire world and God has been defeated?

The teaching of Jesus the Christ has shown mankind that ?God? is not a deity to keep isolated in the places of worship ? ?God? is our ?Father? (Originator) whom we need to carry in our hearts and whom we need to search by serving and helping and loving our fellow men. That is the path of righteousness, that is the path of Christ, that is the path of islam. Allah is your Master and my Master, let us be slave to Him ? that is the straight route. This core teaching is the driving force behind much of the concepts of ?Freedom, and Human right and Justice? that has now become the hallmark of the secular West. The non-believers would like to discredit the Christ and the religious movements in general ? but without these ?divine? interventions mankind would have remained in the barbaric dark ages.

Then there are those who have understood this message, and those who have deviated by being slave to a false image of ?Jesus? instead of upholding their God gifted sense of right and wrong. As for those of us who followed Jesus by adopting his message ? they will be above the faith repressors till the day of rising. As for those who repressed faith ? soon we will be gathered together and God will judge among us concerning what in the teaching of the messengers that we were differing (Ref 355).

I think people just try to soothe themselves. One mustn't sit in approval of injustice and evil. What the Bible and the Hadith says which is good, no argument about it, but what it says that is vile, an argument should be made and it should be recognized as vile.

?What the Bible and the Hadith says which is good, no argument about it, but what it says that is vile, an argument should be made and it should be recognized as vile.? That is exactly what I am saying, that is exactly what Jefferson said. But you are not saying that. Just like as you habitually do you are constantly shifting between stances and making confusing statements that contradict each other. When you call the Bible stanaic and call to throw it in fire ? there hardly is any intension to recognize the ?Good? in it. Blind hatred is equally harmful as blind faith.

Mother Theresa, there is some bad writing about her too, of how she allowed people to suffer instead of getting them the proper medical treatments and things of that sort, you can read about that (brought up by Atheists and others, and yes, they will say bad things about the Qur'an too).

Oh Yah, there is some bad writing about Muhammad too, of how he encouraged underage marriage, polygamy, killing and torture and things of that sort. Those who live in the garbage, eat the garbage and vomit the garbage. Take them as your allies if that?s what you are up to.

I?ll any day take Mother Terresa or Mahatma Gandhi, or Nelson Mendela as my ally above self-proclaimed ?Foremost Muslims? in online forums; and I wish my Master put me in company of the righteous ? today and on the day of rising.

The "Teaching of Christ" is certainly worth "losing", because if we were to follow it closely in at least a literal way (as some less cowardly or "simple minded" people might), we would then chop off our hands and feet, and kill ourselves too. To hell with "Christ", the false deity of their imagination, just like the other "Gods" they adore.

Look what a cruel and despicable person he was in the New Testament, and they praise him and glorify him, even Atheists often speak fondly of this character. Look how he treated his mother, his associates, and how a woman begging for help for her child he ignored her and made her crawl and then insulted her on top of it and praised the wicked ones who had tormented those people throughout the Bible. This is the role model? Has anyone read what he supposedly said? How poor his explanations were, how idiotic the religion proposed?

(I believe in the protection and maintenance of the Bible and studying it and keeping it safe) BURN THE BIBLE! Throw it in the fire! Just like Jesus supposedly said that if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out, take that sinful wicked book and destroy it.

I also like when people burn the Qur'an in their ignorance, destroying their ability to read it. Only a truly Malicious Force could think of something as insidiously simple as that. A malice even greater than mine.

Deviating from the teaching of the Christ has been as much a reason for the downfall of the people who call themselves ?Muslims?, as much as it has been taking the ?unauthorized? teachers / imams / scholars as the partner of God. Reverting back to show-off rituals and over-ritualization, fanatic genital mutation, misunderstanding of riba, fanaticism about food restrictions ? all can be almost directly attributed to departure from the message of the Christ. As far as I am concerned, I am as much a follower of Jesus as much I am of Muhammad or any other messenger of God for that matter. I have faith in them and I do not differentiate between any of them.

4150 Indeed those who repress (faith) in Allah and His messengers and intend that they differentiate between Allah and His messenger and say, ?We put faith in some and we repress (faith) in others? and intend that they take a path between that ?

4151 They are the ones ? they truly are repressing (faith) and We have prepared a humiliating suffering for the ones who repress (faith).

4152 But those who have put faith in Allah and His messengers and they do not differentiate between any of them; they are the ones ? He will soon give them their rewards And Allah happens to be Forgiving, Affectionate.

(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)

Let our paths be separated then.

The teachings of the Qur'an should be taken in light of what "Christ taught us"?

Oh alright

"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.?? Luke 1927

Boko Haram it is! Hail to ISIS (Throne/Dominion of AMUN).

Yes of course

533 It is only the repayment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and become busy spreading corruption on earth that they are killed, or crucified, or their hands and their feet from opposition are cut-off or they be exiled from the earth. That is for them (the) disgrace in the world and for them ? a great suffering in the hereafter.

(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)

Then should have faith in part of the book and repress faith in part?

Those who fight against the teaching of love, compassion and fellow-feeling ? the message brought to humanity from our common Master they do not deserve anything better in life, it does not matter whether they are fighting under the banner of Nazis or KKK or Boko haram or Shiv Shena.

No! Everything should be interpreted in "light of" goodness and compassion and justice tempered with mercy. Not Christ, Not Hadith, Not anything but goodness. If the Qur'an says something, we take the interpretation that is most useful, but we don't lie about it and say that it never said such and such. If the Qur'an gave some terrible advice, then we should point it out.

This my friend is a good note. But then again it is Christ who taught us that goodness and compassion and justice tempered with mercy is the ONLY path to God. If you read with due sincerity you?ll find that is the message of the Gospels just as much as that is the message of the Qur?an. But if you approach the scripture with a distorted mind seeking your own interpretation and looking for quotes to dishonor and discredit the scriptures ? then remember, Allah deviates whomever He wills and Allah guides whomever He wills and Allah is the Mighty authority of Retribution.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

[Man_of_Faith]

Freedomstands,

How can you call Jesus of the Biblical Gospels a bad man? What in it is fierce? He taught very good things.

Overall he teaches Gnostic thought however. In fact very closely. And he came to a Gnostic community where people practiced in general to be minimalistic, even if people often were hypocrites, especially the clergy and scholars.

He calls physical/exaggerated worshipers of a deity for Pagans. Which is not a curse word but a definition for people who are materialistic/worldly.

He said "return to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and what belongs to God to God" subtly rebuking the Paganism in both practices.

Actually Quran also teaches Gnostic style faith underneath the fabricated language.

Be well

[FreedomStands]

Salamun Alaikum.

Wow so now we are adopting Iranian Foreign policy language as our unofficial ?tounge?? Why don?t you do yourself a big favor then. Just like you were preaching Man of Faith to practice what he writes the other day ? why don?t you do yourself a big favor by detaching all association from the ?Great Satan? and seek refuge in God?s land in Iran / Saudi Arabia / Iraq or Syria? Or are you convinced Satan has taken over the entire world and God has been defeated?

The teaching of Jesus the Christ has shown mankind that ?God? is not a deity to keep isolated in the places of worship ? ?God? is our ?Father? (Originator) whom we need to carry in our hearts and whom we need to search by serving and helping and loving our fellow men. That is the path of righteousness, that is the path of Christ, that is the path of islam. Allah is your Master and my Master, let us be slave to Him ? that is the straight route. This core teaching is the driving force behind much of the concepts of ?Freedom, and Human right and Justice? that has now become the hallmark of the secular West. The non-believers would like to discredit the Christ and the religious movements in general ? but without these ?divine? interventions mankind would have remained in the barbaric dark ages.

Then there are those who have understood this message, and those who have deviated by being slave to a false image of ?Jesus? instead of upholding their God gifted sense of right and wrong. As for those of us who followed Jesus by adopting his message ? they will be above the faith repressors till the day of rising. As for those who repressed faith ? soon we will be gathered together and God will judge among us concerning what in the teaching of the messengers that we were differing (Ref 355).

?What the Bible and the Hadith says which is good, no argument about it, but what it says that is vile, an argument should be made and it should be recognized as vile.? That is exactly what I am saying, that is exactly what Jefferson said. But you are not saying that. Just like as you habitually do you are constantly shifting between stances and making confusing statements that contradict each other. When you call the Bible stanaic and call to throw it in fire ? there hardly is any intension to recognize the ?Good? in it. Blind hatred is equally harmful as blind faith.

Oh Yah, there is some bad writing about Muhammad too, of how he encouraged underage marriage, polygamy, killing and torture and things of that sort. Those who live in the garbage, eat the garbage and vomit the garbage. Take them as your allies if that?s what you are up to.

I?ll any day take Mother Terresa or Mahatma Gandhi, or Nelson Mendela as my ally above self-proclaimed ?Foremost Muslims? in online forums; and I wish my Master put me in company of the righteous ? today and on the day of rising.

Deviating from the teaching of the Christ has been as much a reason for the downfall of the people who call themselves ?Muslims?, as much as it has been taking the ?unauthorized? teachers / imams / scholars as the partner of God. Reverting back to show-off rituals and over-ritualization, fanatic genital mutation, misunderstanding of riba, fanaticism about food restrictions ? all can be almost directly attributed to departure from the message of the Christ. As far as I am concerned, I am as much a follower of Jesus as much I am of Muhammad or any other messenger of God for that matter. I have faith in them and I do not differentiate between any of them.

Let our paths be separated then.

Yes of course

Then should have faith in part of the book and repress faith in part?

Those who fight against the teaching of love, compassion and fellow-feeling ? the message brought to humanity from our common Master they do not deserve anything better in life, it does not matter whether they are fighting under the banner of Nazis or KKK or Boko haram or Shiv Shena.

This my friend is a good note. But then again it is Christ who taught us that goodness and compassion and justice tempered with mercy is the ONLY path to God. If you read with due sincerity you?ll find that is the message of the Gospels just as much as that is the message of the Qur?an. But if you approach the scripture with a distorted mind seeking your own interpretation and looking for quotes to dishonor and discredit the scriptures ? then remember, Allah deviates whomever He wills and Allah guides whomever He wills and Allah is the Mighty authority of Retribution.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

Haha, I found this email really fun to read, thank you! I will respond to a bunch of points insha'Allah!

"Salamun Alaikum."

Shalom.

"Wow so now we are adopting Iranian Foreign policy language as our unofficial ?tounge??"

Sure, why not? I adopt lots of things, like Luciferian and Satanic terminology. I can hijack just about anything. I don't live in America currently, but America is a pretty vile nation that goes around making lots of trouble in the world and has for a great many years, they have killed so many people and supported corporations that have also gone around killing and harassing so many of the poor people of the world. It is not a matter of liking them or their sick government. They are truly an evil nation in existence in the world today, and most people seem to recognize that hopefully. "The Great Satan" is a perfectly appropriate, albeit a little funny, nomenclature to attach to them. I could also call them "The Great Sh*ts" of the world. It isn't out of Jealousy. Just look at what they promote, and what they do. Anyone who supports their actions is actually a criminal and a true terrorist. Go read about all their history and actions, they are no one to be fond of at all. I can list so many of their crimes, they are IN THE PROCESS of conducting crimes even to this day, government funded and government ordered crimes. They have done atrocity after atrocity, are you kidding me trying to act like they are any good and not worthy of the title of Great Enemies of the poor people of the world? For goodness sakes, buy some black panties, the pink ones are getting old now.

"Why don?t you do yourself a big favor then. Just like you were preaching Man of Faith to practice what he writes the other day ? why don?t you do yourself a big favor by detaching all association from the ?Great Satan? and seek refuge in God?s land in Iran / Saudi Arabia / Iraq or Syria? Or are you convinced Satan has taken over the entire world and God has been defeated?"

Well, Man of Faith preaches something particularly. I do not preach "leave America" or anything like that. Yusuf and other people lived and worked in kaffir countries, and yes evil is everywhere, it isn't exclusive to America, but America has a huge influence in the world spreading evil, the people living in the country are paying taxes but generally are just trying to survive and live, its the government of America that is generally extremely evil, yet I've never preached "Leave America" and not done it myself. Even if I was in America and even if I did preach "Leave America" I wouldn't think it is hypocrisy, I'd be telling other people to leave for their own sake while I remain back and spread the message, but I'm not in America nor am I preaching to leave America. So the point doesn't work, but I liked it anyway, I liked the emotions that might have been behind it and bringing up my other posts too which I sometimes enjoy, like an ongoing character etc.

Certainly, God is not defeated, but God is the one who gives America their reign of terror in the world today.

I don't like the Iranian government or even the various Arab ones either, but they don't have as huge of an influence in the world today either, and I don't think people have to live in those countries. I guess it is a bit of a straw man or something, but I don't mind. I think a person can live in a country and not like the government and speak out against it while living in the land.

"The teaching of Jesus the Christ has shown mankind that ?God? is not a deity to keep isolated in the places of worship ? ?God? is our ?Father? (Originator) whom we need to carry in our hearts and whom we need to search by serving and helping and loving our fellow men."

There are certain things in the Bible which really don't give that message at all, the New Testament included. So what people say is good, but it doesn't necessarily match up with the really bad stuff the Bible says here and there. That is a little different from the Qur'an, which says good stuff but the followers do bad stuff. In this case the Bible says bad stuff, and the followers don't follow it and might promote good stuff at times.

"That is the path of righteousness, that is the path of Christ, that is the path of islam."

I prefer the Qur'anic version of Jesus to the Biblical. The Biblical Jesus is not a very pleasant or good person at all. His points are also often inane and stupid. He can be seen promoting the murder of children, asking that people be executed in-front of him, and telling people to mutilate their bodies, gouge out their own eyes, cut off their own hands and feet, and also promotes Jewish racism and other things. So the Biblical version of Jesus, who also mistreats his mother, is generally a prck, and "at risk of hell" even by the standards he set when he said "Any who calls such and such a fool is at risk of hell" and then he goes on to call people fools and stuff. Saying stupid stuff and speaking in weird ways and not having instant or deep sympathy at all, look at how he treated the begging woman, and look at how he treated those pigs and the demons. To hell with him, he is trash. The Qur'an's Isa is a good person, but the Bible's Jesus is garbage. A villain and a vile person. He even tells people that they should die, that they shouldn't defend themselves or anything. His advice is garbage and un-Qur'anic. He is a hypocrite repeatedly, contradicting his own messages, and all this is because it is a book of lies. Enjoy it. If it doesn't hit your strings as disgusting, then something might actually be wrong with your heart. Only the diseased can overlook a book that has that story of cutting up the man's wife/concubine after her gang rape by his permission. Fck the Bible.
_
"Allah is your Master and my Master, let us be slave to Him ? that is the straight route. This core teaching is the driving force behind much of the concepts of ?Freedom, and Human right and Justice? that has now become the hallmark of the secular West. The non-believers would like to discredit the Christ and the religious movements in general ? but without these ?divine? interventions mankind would have remained in the barbaric dark ages.
_

lol are you kidding me? Nothing was "Barbaric" about it really. I know lots about history, there were many moral people and places with decency in this world and sensible laws that had nothing to do with Christian lies and stupidity. After Christianity, there came an era of twisted corruption like the Earth had not seen before, up until modern times. In other words, "dream on". It is a total myth to imagine the world was uncivilized before Christianity. Look at the filth it brought into Europe. A devout people turned ignorant in the extreme, even stopping to wash themselves like they used to or bathing properly. They used to be cleaner, more worshipful according to Roman records, and they became absolute stinking filth. To this day they don't wash themselves even, when before they used to be cleaner and cleanliness was important. Thanks to the "non bodily" garbage in the Bible, people started to not take care of themselves at all. One of the many terrors of Christian vileness, besides everything else, including their hatred of Islam and spread of idolatry and error across the world. Guiding millions upon millions into shirk. Are you kidding me man? You support that?

"Then there are those who have understood this message, and those who have deviated by being slave to a false image of ?Jesus? instead of upholding their God gifted sense of right and wrong. As for those of us who followed Jesus by adopting his message ? they will be above the faith repressors till the day of rising. As for those who repressed faith ? soon we will be gathered together and God will judge among us concerning what in the teaching of the messengers that we were differing (Ref 355)."

Nobody has adopted his message for the most part, luckily. Or else a whole bunch of people would have their eyes gouged out, their hands cut off, their feet mutilated, allowing their enemies to beat them to a pulp and stealing from them, and whatever other sh*t advice is in the New Testament. Nobody follows it because it is stupid garbage.

What the Bible and the Hadith says which is good, no argument about it, but what it says that is vile, an argument should be made and it should be recognized as vile.

"That is exactly what I am saying, that is exactly what Jefferson said. But you are not saying that. Just like as you habitually do you are constantly shifting between stances and making confusing statements that contradict each other."

Like what? The Bible is sh*t with some parts that can be used on people who are stuck on it.

"When you call the Bible stanaic and call to throw it in fire ? there hardly is any intension to recognize the ?Good? in it. Blind hatred is equally harmful as blind faith."

A book that says what it does, the vile stuff in it, so mixed with any of the scarce good in it, should absolutely be thrown in a damn fire. It is like Hustler Magazine, even Hustler is less pornographic and sick, I mean the stuff in it is SICK its like snuff film stuff written by a serial killer, yes it should be burned really. The Qur'an is honestly nothing like it, or else I'd say the Qur'an should be burned too. The people who burn the Qur'an are just ignorant idiots, but the Bible, which says what it does, slanders and teaches vileness as the acts of "Prophets" thus guiding people to evil, YES IT SHOULD BE BURNED. THAT IS NOT "BLIND" HATRED, THAT IS HATRED DUE TO CLEAR SIGHT! I HAVE READ IT REPEATEDLY, IT IS A TERRIBLE DISGUSTING BOOK, IT PROMOTES EVIL AND PRETENDS IT IS GOOD, TO HELL WITH THAT BOOK AND TO HELL WITH THE SUPPORTERS OF EVILNESS.

"Oh Yah, there is some bad writing about Muhammad too, of how he encouraged underage marriage, polygamy, killing and torture and things of that sort."

Burn that sh*t too. The Hadiths should have been burned LONG AGO. They still don't match up to the Bible at all, the Bible is worse still by far, but burn them both, they really are books of trash.

"Those who live in the garbage, eat the garbage and vomit the garbage. Take them as your allies if that?s what you are up to."

I don't understand this statement. It almost seems like something I'd say to you or something haha.

"I?ll any day take Mother Terresa or Mahatma Gandhi, or Nelson Mendela as my ally above self-proclaimed ?Foremost Muslims? in online forums; and I wish my Master put me in company of the righteous ? today and on the day of rising."

They were wimps and fools. Nelson Mandela was a stupid strategist who got himself caught and imprisoned for so many years instead of fighting more carefully. Gandhi was part of disuniting the country even though he wanted it to remain a single united country while creating instability, now Hindu radicals run rampant slaughtering Muslims from time to time, and Gandhi's techniques led to the deaths of many people for a worldly and ultimately stupid cause that didn't produce anything but one of the most vile countries in the world, India, who is now operationally supporting Israel with their spy services and working to harass and destabilize Muslim countries (this was on the regular news even) so shall I support the villain who is credited with all that because his lame brain couldn't for-see the implications? Mother Theresa and her spreading idolatry and letting sick people die and suffer instead of giving them proper medical treatment because suffering she believed was a meditation for her, at the expense of genuine people in need? (Read the case against her and Gandhi).

No way. Kaffirs. Maybe you'll get to meet them as you wish.

"Deviating from the teaching of the Christ has been as much a reason for the downfall of the people who call themselves ?Muslims?, as much as it has been taking the ?unauthorized? teachers / imams / scholars as the partner of God."

What are you talking about! The teachings were bad! They weren't good teachings at all. If anyone follows them they will be destroyed basically in every way imaginable.

They will give away everything, they will be vagabonds, they will mutilate themselves, they will kill, they will get martyred, they will let their enemies rape and harass them and not teach self defense. THIS is if they follow the teachings of Jesus. No, I have thoroughly examined the teachings, and they lead to great harm, they are not good for people, and luckily very few if any live up to them or follow them as they are written. Man of Faith's hypocrisy for example is a saving grace, he should thank God he is a hypocrite and failing to follow the teachings of the Bible (in its mainstream translations).

"Reverting back to show-off rituals and over-ritualization, fanatic genital mutation, misunderstanding of riba, fanaticism about food restrictions ? all can be almost directly attributed to departure from the message of the Christ."

Stopping the killing of your children? What about that one? Christ called people hypocrites and disbelievers for not killing their children, he mistreated begging people, he mistreated animals, he mistreated a freaking tree even! He promoted mutilation even with the implication of genital mutilation, he promoted fanaticism and all of that stuff. What are you talking about? Have you read the New Testament or what? Of course you have! How is it you missed all of this insanity in there?

"As far as I am concerned, I am as much a follower of Jesus as much I am of Muhammad or any other messenger of God for that matter. I have faith in them and I do not differentiate between any of them."

Yet, that requires the belief that the New Testament represents the actual teachings of Jesus. I don't think it does necessarily. I hope not at least, because I fully reject vile sh*t like that.

"Let our paths be separated then."

Well that is cruel. If you believe you are right, and on the path of being saved, you should out of compassion work to correct me and save me, if not, you are lacking compassion and are quite evil in that sense. Don't you see how I tirelessly try to help people?

"Yes of course
Then should have faith in part of the book and repress faith in part?"

No idea what this is about. The "Biblos" scriptures might not be the real book at all. Even if it were, I reject it, I don't care who it comes from if it is saying vile trash non-stop then it is not good for people.

"Those who fight against the teaching of love, compassion and fellow-feeling ? the message brought to humanity from our common Master they do not deserve anything better in life, it does not matter whether they are fighting under the banner of Nazis or KKK or Boko haram or Shiv Shena."

Who says it isn't compassionate to gas all men, women, and children to death before they have a chance to sin more? See, these things can get quite twisted. The Biblical apologists have even suggested the massacres at times were "All Love" haha, what a joke!

Part of being a good person is to reject evilness. Part of being a bad person is to support it secretly or openly.

"This my friend is a good note. But then again it is Christ who taught us that goodness and compassion and justice tempered with mercy is the ONLY path to God."

Dude, that is a MYTH, go read what it actually says. He did not teach anything that is so great really. He taught extremist stupidity "Go sell everything you have and buy a sword", his advice is garbage.

"If you read with due sincerity you?ll find that is the message of the Gospels just as much as that is the message of the Qur?an."

lol, you need to read it with due sincerity, and actually see what the heck he is saying and how it is so crazy. I went in expecting all kinds of good stuff, that these people have made a religion out of it, I was shocked.

"But if you approach the scripture with a distorted mind seeking your own interpretation and looking for quotes to dishonor and discredit the scriptures ? then remember, Allah deviates whomever He wills and Allah guides whomever He wills and Allah is the Mighty authority of Retribution."

Are you kidding me again? The Quotes are there, they aren't even out of context, people have to stretch to try to not make them mean what they say, the Qur'an doesn't even say bad stuff like that, big difference, and if it did, I wouldn't give a hoot about an evil book spreading evil messages except to fight it and its supporters.

"May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman"

Eh, doubt that will happen ever.