oldest fragments of Quran found
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That's the final messianist argument isn't it? When criticized, this is normal because good logic is of the only guided ones, Gods elect, chosen for the kingdom to come.
I'm pretty shocked you are willing to throw overboard rational thinking and scientific arguments to preserve the divinity of the Quran you know.
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Hello,
It does not have anything to do with belief but you must realize yourself, to be 'such as Him'. This is what you must accomplish in this life.
Believing is easy and a lot of people say you are a disbeliever if you do not understand Quran and thus reject it, but having faith in a 'Higher Intelligence' would be sufficient, the rest is about who you are. I would also reject Quran unless I discovered its real words beneath an ocean of lies by the grace of God.
Be safe
Emanuel -
Peace running likezebras.
No one is guaranteed anything. We must all strive to earn our salvation.
I am simply trying to stay loyal to the Lord. Checking all information,Scientific or not, is a job that we must do.
Do you think Science is free from "manipulations/fabrications and lies".especially when humans have certain motives?
Of course some proven Science and facts are useful and I am the first to acknowledge these.
I am also aware that a lot of people have their own agendas.
I am trying to search for the truth. But of course you will say everyone says that!I truly want to know the truth,but I shall do my own checking.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Good logic, please understand you are not making a big impression when you are using an injected understanding not present in the quranic text (between brackets), as proof of your understanding. Furthermore are you contesting that ar-r al-qudus was a known christian denominator for the Holy Spirt (not Gabriel)?
- From the Quranic perspective, Gabriel is RUHUL AMIN
0297 - Say, "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel - IT IS HE WHO SENT DOWN THE QURAN UPON YOUR HEAART, by permission of ALLAH, confirming what was in between, support it and as guidance and good tidings for the believers."
Cross-referencing with 26193-194
Sent down by the Truthful Spirit
UPON YOUR HEART, that you may be of the warners,
- From the Quranic perspective, Mikaal is the RUHUL QUDDUS
0287 - And We gave to Moses the Book, and after him sent succeeding Messengers; and We gave Esa son of Mary the clear signs, and confirmed him with the Holy Spirit...
Cross-referencing with...
16102 - Say 'The Holy Spirit sent it down from thy Lord in truth, and to confirm those who believe, and to be a guidance and good tidings to those who surrender.'
Now, if you read the verse 101, you will notice that it mention verses that were substituted was sent down by the Holy Spirit. So from hear we safely conclude that Jibril, the Truthful Spirit, sent down those verses that was known by the other prophets while Mikaal, the Holy Spirit, sent down verses that are to be subsituted.
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- From the Quranic perspective, Gabriel is RUHUL AMIN
Interesting. Thank you.
Salaam
0297 - Say, "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel - IT IS HE WHO SENT DOWN THE QURAN UPON YOUR HEAART, by permission of ALLAH, confirming what was in between, support it and as guidance and good tidings for the believers."
Cross-referencing with 26193-194
Sent down by the Truthful Spirit
UPON YOUR HEART, that you may be of the warners,
- From the Quranic perspective, Mikaal is the RUHUL QUDDUS
0287 - And We gave to Moses the Book, and after him sent succeeding Messengers; and We gave Esa son of Mary the clear signs, and confirmed him with the Holy Spirit...
Cross-referencing with...
16102 - Say 'The Holy Spirit sent it down from thy Lord in truth, and to confirm those who believe, and to be a guidance and good tidings to those who surrender.'
Now, if you read the verse 101, you will notice that it mention verses that were substituted was sent down by the Holy Spirit. So from hear we safely conclude that Jibril, the Truthful Spirit, sent down those verses that was known by the other prophets while Mikaal, the Holy Spirit, sent down verses that are to be subsituted.
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The oldest inferior scripts of the Sanaa psalimpsests do state ?ar-rh al-qudus?.
EM Gallez writes
What is for us of interest in verse 102 is its formula ar-rh al-qudus if it is to designate the angel Gabriel, we must accordingly delete the first article to prevent it from meaning ?the Holy Spirit? and mean instead ?the spirit of the Holy one? ? by which is meant ?an angel of God?. This change is radical it is linked to the idea that the angel Gabriel dictated the Koran to Muhammad. It can also be dated the idea in itself is posterior to AD 735, year around which John of Damascus simply wrote that Muhammad received the Koran in his sleep. Arguably, then, the case can be made that the scriptio superior or the last text from the manuscript of an??? (including its second scriptio inferior, namely the most recent) does postdate 735.
Furthermore, if you are claiming Quranic standards, you will have to admit 0297 nowhere mentions Muhammad. Only with hadith and tafsir indoctrination would the reader understand it as relating to Muhammad. Reading the verses preceding it, one can easily find out Moses is being referred to here (worship of the calf, ascension on the mount, etc). Similarily 287 does not mention Mikaal at all. This is complete conjecture, based on tafsir and hadith. Still you are claiming to be using a Quranic perspective. Next to this 287 explicitly mentions Moses and Jesus, nowhere does it mention Muhammad!
As far as I'm concerned this is a pretty good illustration how this text manipulation was intended. To make a divine revelation by Gabriel to Muhammad fit the Quranic text (which it originally did not state).
This post by Hizbullah shows how much hadith and tafsir so called "quranists" are still applying. Distorting words, transfer of identification (interchanging Moses, Jesus with Muhammad where they feel like it).
The challenge is still open show me a clear single verse in quran that states "Gabriel brought the message to Muhammad". If you can't, you'd better reanalyze your assumptions.
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The oldest inferior scripts of the Sanaa psalimpsests do state ?ar-rh al-qudus?.
EM Gallez writes
Furthermore, if you are claiming Quranic standards, you will have to admit 0297 nowhere mentions Muhammad. Only with hadith and tafsir indoctrination would the reader understand it as relating to Muhammad. Reading the verses preceding it, one can easily find out Moses is being referred to here (worship of the calf, ascension on the mount, etc). Similarily 287 does not mention Mikaal at all. This is complete conjecture, based on tafsir and hadith. Still you are claiming to be using a Quranic perspective. Next to this 287 explicitly mentions Moses and Jesus, nowhere does it mention Muhammad!
As far as I'm concerned this is a pretty good illustration how this text manipulation was intended. To make a divine revelation by Gabriel to Muhammad fit the Quranic text (which it originally did not state).
This post by Hizbullah shows how much hadith and tafsir so called "quranists" are still applying. Distorting words, transfer of identification (interchanging Moses, Jesus with Muhammad where they feel like it).
The challenge is still open show me a clear single verse in quran that states "Gabriel brought the message to Muhammad". If you can't, you'd better reanalyze your assumptions.
6836 What is with you? How do you judge?
6837 Or for you a Book wherein you study?
6838 Indeed for you is whatever you choose?
Look whos talking, btw, who the hell is Gallez, your prophet, mentor??? The above are the hadith of your prophet! Show me a clear message that this Quran was sent to the Prophets Musa or Esa?
Obviously you have no knowledge so let me tell you, this Quran was sent to the Last Prophet, Prophet Mani, who was called Muhammad by the CREATOR HIMSELF! The Prophets Musa and Esa was already DEAD AND GONE at the time this Quran was sent down.
I cannot deny the fact that Prophet Musa did received what was given to the Last Prophet...
3223 - And certainly, We gave Moses the Book; so do not be in doubt of receiving it; and We made it a guide for the Children of Israel.
The Quran is very clear in this and that is, what Musa received was the First edition while the Last Prophet received the same book but a 2nd Edition.
1587 - And Certainly, We have given you several of the second one and the Grand Quran.
3923 - ALLAH has sent down the best statement a Book RESEMBLING EACH OTHER, the Second One. The skins shiver therefrom of those who fear their LORD; then their skins and their hearts relax at the remembrance of ALLAH...
So its clear now, but off course, the Quran verses are nothing to you compare to what Gallez, your prophet says?
As for Jibbril and Mikaal, both are mentioned in the Quran 0298, since Jibbril is Ruhul Amin than the other obviously is Mikaal aka Ruhul Quddus .
So can you see now, I have shown you all from the Quran, no Hadith or the words of some stupid fool to substantiate my claims!
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Look whos talking, btw, who the hell is Gallez, your prophet, mentor???
He is a scholar who discovered the text manipulation to "ar-rh al-qudus".
Obviously you have no knowledge so let me tell you, this Quran was sent to the Last Prophet, Prophet Mani, who was called Muhammad by the CREATOR HIMSELF! The Prophets Musa and Esa was already DEAD AND GONE at the time this Quran was sent down.
Show me a clear message that this Quran was sent to the Prophets Musa or Esa?
I cannot deny the fact that Prophet Musa did received what was given to the Last Prophet...
3223 - And certainly, We gave Moses the Book; so do not be in doubt of receiving it; and We made it a guide for the Children of Israel.
Kind of ironic; you asking me to provide you a clear message that the Book was given to Moses followed by quoting the verse that exactly states it. Excellent!
The Quran is very clear in this and that is, what Musa received was the First edition while the Last Prophet received the same book but a 2nd Edition.
Oh I see God sends second editions like publishers do... This is conjecture from your part. Any reference in the Quran to "the Book" is the Torah. Logic dictates it can't be Quran since it wasn't written down yet.
1587 - And Certainly, We have given you several of the second one and the Grand Quran.
This Quran is the judeonazarene lectionary. Not the Uthmanic Quran, which didn't exist yet. l-mathn / mathniya does not translate to second but oft-repeated. Sahih International And We have certainly given you, seven of the often repeated and the great Qur'an.
3923 - ALLAH has sent down the best statement a Book RESEMBLING EACH OTHER, the Second One. The skins shiver therefrom of those who fear their LORD; then their skins and their hearts relax at the remembrance of ALLAH...
Oft-repeated is not a synonym for "second". Your translation is erroneous, if not totally bogus. The Book is the Torah. It does not say "resembling each other" but "Allah has sent down the best statement a consistent Book wherein is reiteration. " (Sahih International)
So its clear now, but off course, the Quran verses are nothing to you compare to what Gallez, your prophet says?
Gallez is not a prophet, he's a scholar.
As for Jibbril and Mikaal, both are mentioned in the Quran 0298, since Jibbril is Ruhul Amin than the other obviously is Mikaal aka Ruhul Quddus .
So can you see now, I have shown you all from the Quran, no Hadith or the words of some mother f@#*&r to substantiate my claims!
Prime example of conjecture. You just fill in the blanks like you want to fill them in. Still admitting Quran does not contain one CLEAR verse saying Gabriel/Michael gave the book to Muhammad! Also watch your language.
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On top of this, the idea that Jibbril is Ruhul Amin and Mikaal is Ruhul Quddus is totally unheared of in the judeo-christian tradition. This concept only exists in Hizbullahs mind.
When Quran states ""ar-rh al-qudus" it means Holy Spirit. When Quran states "Jibril" it means Jibril. Is this too complicated for you?
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Oh I see God sends second editions like publishers do... This is conjecture from your part. Any reference in the Quran to "the Book" is the Torah. Logic dictates it can't be Quran since it wasn't written down yet.
rotfl rotfl A good one..
2nd edition only on paperback from "Uthman Publishing Company", the sole and only true agent of God's book on this earth, which has gone bankrupt many centuries ago, thus it's not available on ebook format.. rotfl
And they say there will be no 3rd edition? rotflI'm waiting for someone to start a new religion with a conception of "Holy Software".
God, previously an author and a scribe now turned into a computer programmer..
His software is (obviously) holy, do not need an upgrade and do not contains any bugs and those who dare to submit a bug report must be put to death for blasphemy.. rotfl -
I did no such thing, he apparently modified his post after my reply. That's not my responsibility.
The Hebrew language phrase ruach ha-kodesh (Hebrew , "holy spirit" also transliterated rua ha-qodesh) is a term used in the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) and Jewish writings to refer to the spirit of YHWH ( ה. It literally means "the spirit of holiness" or "the spirit of the holy place". The Hebrew terms rua qodshka, "thy holy spirit" ( ָ, and rua qodsh, "his holy spirit" ( ֹ also occur (when a possessive suffix is added the definite article is dropped). The "Holy Spirit" in Judaism generally refers to the divine aspect of prophecy and wisdom. It also refers to the divine force, quality, and influence of the Most High God, over the universe or over his creatures, in given contexts.
On the basis of narrations in certain Hadith some Muslims identify it with the angel Gabriel (Arabic Jibreel). => hizbullah is one of those
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Well I can prove I did not misquote Hizbullah as I reported the same message to the moderators for its foul language. So I have proof. I don't see how this is relevant to you either way. Are you the Islamic Police around here or something?
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He is a scholar who discovered the text manipulation to "ar-rh al-qudus".
Yeah, i can only see a stupid rascal that you are following
Kind of ironic; you asking me to provide you a clear message that the Book was given to Moses followed by quoting the verse that exactly states it. Excellent!
Not only you did not comprehend Arabic but also English. See how ignorant you are. Try to spell before reading, it will be easier. and please get a good dictionary place beside.
Oh I see God sends second editions like publishers do... This is conjecture from your part. Any reference in the Quran to "the Book" is the Torah. Logic dictates it can't be Quran since it wasn't written down yet.
Torah is not a "Book". No where in the Quran that says Musa received the Torah. This is conjecture from your part. ONL ALLAH can change HIS words. Please read 16101...if you do not understand, please ask, i will try to explain and please dont be an like an empty vassel who makes so much noise, who thinks he know something but in actual fact zero knowledge.
This Quran is the judeonazarene lectionary. Not the Uthmanic Quran, which didn't exist yet. l-mathn / mathniya does not translate to second but oft-repeated. Sahih International And We have certainly given you, seven of the often repeated and the great Qur'an.
Oft-repeated is not a synonym for "second". Your translation is erroneous, if not totally bogus. The Book is the Torah. It does not say "resembling each other" but "Allah has sent down the best statement a consistent Book wherein is reiteration. " (Sahih International)
This post by running like donkey opps running like zebra shows how much hadith and tafsir so called "rlz" are still applying. Distorting words, transfer of identification (interchanging the Last Prophet, with Esa and Moses where you feel like it).
Gallez is not a prophet, he's a scholar.
Oh yeah he is your idol
Prime example of conjecture. You just fill in the blanks like you want to fill them in. Still admitting Quran does not contain one CLEAR verse saying Gabriel/Michael gave the book to Muhammad! Also watch your language.
Dont give me instruction, i will talk how i like and please dont put words in my mouth, where did i say Quran does not contain one CLEAR. The fact is you a an ignorant obnoxious individual. You think you know the Quran better than anyone else? I challenge you anytime running like donkey!
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rotfl rotfl A good one..
2nd edition only on paperback from "Uthman Publishing Company", the sole and only true agent of God's book on this earth, which has gone bankrupt many centuries ago, thus it's not available on ebook format.. rotfl
And they say there will be no 3rd edition? rotflI'm waiting for someone to start a new religion with a conception of "Holy Software".
God, previously an author and a scribe now turned into a computer programmer..
His software is (obviously) holy, do not need an upgrade and do not contains any bugs and those who dare to submit a bug report must be put to death for blasphemy.. rotflIts not surprising for a fool like you to laugh. You call yourself Arab but did not even comprehend a single bit of Arabic. I have been reading your post and all are full blasphemy . What can i say but as the Quran says
The Arabs are stronger in disbelief and hypocrisy and more likely not to know the limits of what ALLAH has revealed to His Messenger. And Allah is Knowing and Wise.
Jafar people like you and your race do not to know the limits of what ALLAH has revealed to His Messenger.
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On top of this, the idea that Jibbril is Ruhul Amin and Mikaal is Ruhul Quddus is totally unheared of in the judeo-christian tradition. This concept only exists in Hizbullahs mind.
When Quran states ""ar-rh al-qudus" it means Holy Spirit. When Quran states "Jibril" it means Jibril. Is this too complicated for you?
Jibbril is Ruhul Amin and Mikaal is Ruhul Quddus, it is all in the Quran, so is this too complicated for you? Of course you only believe in yourself and the doctrines of men not the Quran!
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The Arabs are stronger in disbelief and hypocrisy and more likely not to know the limits of what ALLAH has revealed to His Messenger. And Allah is Knowing and Wise.
Jafar people like you and your race do not to know the limits of what ALLAH has revealed to His Messenger.
This is so funny.
You accuse Jafar of being Arab, when he is the number 1 Arab hater in this entire site. And then you use the same incorrectly translated verse that he used to have as his very signature. Can't get more ironic than this.
And fyi, you are both racists. And it says A3raabu, not 3arabu. Those are 2 different words believe it or not.
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This is so funny.
You accuse Jafar of being Arab, when he is the number 1 Arab hater in this entire site. And then you use the same incorrectly translated verse that he used to have as his very signature. Can't get more ironic than this.
And fyi, you are both racists.
What is so ironic??? We are hear to learn from each other and not to give sarcastic and rude remarks.
As an Arab he should have known the correct interpretation of the Arabic Quran better than those who are not!
And what racist are you talking about when the Quran already labelled it. And it is a fact. In the first place do you know the history of the ME? Do you know that it was the Arabs who had done so much damage to Islam with their sectarian ideology since 1400 years ago. It was the Arabs who manupulated the Quran with their garbage language in order to cause so much confusion.
Do you know that it was the Arabs who conspired with the British and her allies in order to bring down the Othemani Chaliphate and as such divided the ME, particularly the destruction of the Palestinian people?
And it says A3raabu, not 3arabu. Those are 2 different words believe it or not.
And fyi, the correct spelling is Al A3rabu, the alif with a shadda, so yes the correct meaning is The Arabs, well Jafar is absolutely right and you are absolutely wrong.
Btw please get your facts right before blabbering nonsense!
