Will our sins/wrongdoings be forgiven just by praying for forgiveness?
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Then by Your Might (Gods Might). Iblis makes no accusations towards God.
Here iblis is declaring his plan making God's might a witness because if God decides to interfere iblis cannot do anything.
But in 716 iblis is clearly blaming God for his disobedience.
(
Its not a question of who is right and who is wrong in understanding Quran. We all are free to get guidance the way we want it. So my understanding is different from yours and only God knows who is on the right path.
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Here iblis is declaring his plan making God's might a witness because if God decides to interfere iblis cannot do anything.
But in 716 iblis is clearly blaming God for his disobedience.
(
Its not a question of who is right and who is wrong in understanding Quran. We all are free to get guidance the way we want it. So my understanding is different from yours and only God knows who is on the right path.
Iblis is not blaming anyone. Iblis is stating a simple fact he was prevented to obey the order because of Gods will. This is a simple truth that does not accuse anyone of anything.
Peace
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(7246)
walakum
And for you CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
P ? prefixed preposition lm
PRON ? 2nd person masculine plural personal pronoun(7247)
f
in P ? preposition(724
l-ari
the earth N ? genitive feminine noun Earth(7249)
mus'taqarrun
(is) a dwelling place N ? nominative masculine indefinite (form X) passive participle(72410)
wamatun
and livelihood CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
N ? nominative masculine indefinite noun(72411)
il
for P ? preposition(72412)
nin
a time." N ? genitive masculine indefinite nounBrother these are two different things.
Iblis is given respite to misguide people until the Day of Resurrection.
We humans are given time to live on al-Ardh till the Day of Resurrection to give zaka to our nafs and not to misguide others.
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Sure we have different tasks. But Iblis is not a human nor a jinn. He is a Malaika and can only obey Gods command. Even if that command involves disobeying a command to sujud.
Iblis will not be judged by his salaat, zakaat or whatever you think will be used to judge us. He will be judged on one single thing how many did you manage to led astray? The more he achieved to led astray the more he was entitled to refusal to sujud.
Peace
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Here iblis is declaring his plan making God's might a witness because if God decides to interfere iblis cannot do anything.
But in 716 iblis is clearly blaming God for his disobedience.
(
Its not a question of who is right and who is wrong in understanding Quran. We all are free to get guidance the way we want it. So my understanding is different from yours and only God knows who is on the right path.
1823
Nor say of anything, "I shall be sure to do so and so tomorrow"-
1824
Except, "If Allah wills." And remember your Lord when you forget and say, "Perhaps will guide me my Lord to a nearer than this right way."8129
And not you will except that wills Allah, Lord (of) the worlds.Is Iblis always wrong?
1422
And will say the Shaitaan, when has been decided the matter, "Indeed, Allah promised you a promise (of) truth. And I promised you, but I betrayed you. But not I had over you any authority except that I invited you, and you responded to me. So (do) not blame me, but blame yourselves. Not (can) I (be) your helper and not you (can) (be) my helper. Indeed, I deny your association of me (with Allah) before. Indeed, the wrongdoers, for them (is) a punishment painful."No, Satan does not "always lie" "everything Iblis says is a lie" no. He lies to humans, he doesn't lie in the Qur'an in these various statements.
226
Surely Allah is not ashamed to set forth any parable-- (that of) a gnat or any thing above that; then as for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord, and as for those who disbelieve, they say What is it that Allah means by this parable He causes many to err by it and many He leads aright by it! but He does not cause to err by it (any) except the transgressors,Iblis was not lying in what he said, it is Allah who sent him astray, there is no other power, or was it "By Chance" and "Chance" is the power that determined it, not Allah?
Please read these 4 articles carefully and thoroughly, do not skim them please
First what I have written here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604771.msg373332#msg373332
then what I have written here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604771.msg371947#msg371947
and what I have written here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607626.msg371082#msg371082
as well as what I have written here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607171.msg362116#msg362116
Thank you to anyone who takes the time to slowly and carefully read those and parse them for their logic and view them in all ways possible.
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(32281)
wayaqlna
And they say, CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
V ? 3rd person masculine plural imperfect verb
PRON ? subject pronoun(32282)
mat
"When (will be) INTG ? interrogative noun(32283)
hdh
this DEM ? masculine singular demonstrative pronoun(32284)
l-fatu
decision, N ? nominative masculine noun(32285)
in
if COND ? conditional particle(32286)
kuntum
you are V ? 2nd person masculine plural perfect verb
PRON ? subject pronoun
??
(32287)
diqna
truthful?" N ? accusative masculine plural active participle(32291)
qul
Say, V ? 2nd person masculine singular imperative verb(32292)
yawma
"(On the) Day N ? accusative masculine noun(32293)
l-fati
(of) the Decision, N ? genitive masculine noun(32294)
l
not NEG ? negative particle(32295)
yanfau
will benefit V ? 3rd person masculine singular imperfect verb(32296)
alladhna
those who REL ? masculine plural relative pronoun(32297)
kafar
disbelieve V ? 3rd person masculine plural perfect verb
PRON ? subject pronoun(3229
mnuhum
their belief N ? nominative masculine (form IV) verbal noun
PRON ? 3rd person masculine plural possessive pronoun
??
(32299)
wal
and not CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
NEG ? negative particle(322910)
hum
they PRON ? 3rd person masculine plural personal pronoun(322911)
yunarna
will be granted respite." V ? 3rd person masculine plural (form IV) passive imperfect verb
PRON ? subject pronoun(32301)
fa-ari
So turn away REM ? prefixed resumption particle
V ? 2nd person masculine singular (form IV) imperative verb(32302)
anhum
from them P ? preposition
PRON ? 3rd person masculine plural object pronoun(32303)
wa-intair
and wait. CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
V ? 2nd person masculine singular (form VIII) imperative verb(32304)
innahum
Indeed, they ACC ? accusative particle
PRON ? 3rd person masculine plural object pronoun
?? ??
(32305)
muntairna
(are) waiting.(
Say, ?On the day of decision their belief will not be of any use to disbelievers, nor shall they be given any respite.? (3829)
We are informed it this ayat that when the Day comes then whatever those who hid the truth believed during their stay on AL-ardh will be of no use and they will not be given a chance to correct it. It is not saying to give respite to misguide others but to correct oneself.
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(
Say, ?On the day of decision their belief will not be of any use to disbelievers, nor shall they be given any respite.? (3829)
We are informed it this ayat that when the Day comes then whatever those who hid the truth believed during their stay on AL-ardh will be of no use and they will not be given a chance to correct it. It is not saying to give respite to misguide others but to correct oneself.
I was only proving we were given a similar respite. The judgment will be entirely different for Iblis than for us. Iblis should be of no concern to you.
But yeah, Iblis task is leading ppl astray. He is commanded as such. This does not mean it's okay for us to do so.
Peace
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Sure we have different tasks. But Iblis is not a human nor a jinn. He is a Malaika and can only obey Gods command. Even if that command involves disobeying a command to sujud.
Who is iblis? A malaika? That is another topic. May be some other time.
Iblis will not be judged by his salaat, zakaat or whatever you think will be used to judge us. He will be judged on one single thing how many did you manage to led astray? The more he achieved to led astray the more he was entitled to refusal to sujud.
Brother let me quote again what I understood is our purpose here
We humans are given time to live on al-Ardh till the Day of Resurrection to give zaka to our nafs and not to misguide others.
I don't believe that we will be judged on the basis of man made rituals. Again from the ayats I quoted in my earlier posts iblis was not commanded to misguide people but to do sajada to man.
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Who is iblis? A malaika? That is another topic. May be some other time.
Brother let me quote again what I understood is our purpose here
I don't believe that we will be judged on the basis of man made rituals. Again from the ayats I quoted in my earlier posts iblis was not commanded to misguide people but to do sajada to man.
If you hold that to be true, that would imply Iblis is stronger than God, capable of not only disobeying a command but even getting away with it. I don't think that is true. I think Iblis is inferior to God and can only do Gods will. In this case, disobeying when asked to sujud for Adam.
Peace
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Who is iblis? A malaika? That is another topic. May be some other time.
Brother let me quote again what I understood is our purpose here
I don't believe that we will be judged on the basis of man made rituals. Again from the ayats I quoted in my earlier posts iblis was not commanded to misguide people but to do sajada to man.
If Allah wills a thing, he says merely BE and it is.
Allah did not will him to prostrate, and whatever Allah wills is so. Allah wills the kaffirs, and Allah wills the believers. Allah guides and misguides, harms and benefits, there is no other God or Power, none can harm you, not even yourself
7188
"Say, "I have no power for myself (to) benefit and no (power to) harm, except what Allah wills. And if I would know (of) the unseen surely I could have multiplied of the good and not (could) have touched me the evil. I am not except a warner and a bearer of good tidings to a people who believe."Just because this incident happened with Iblis, doesn't mean Iblis is blessed, or saved, or that it is good. Allah decrees evil and decrees good, Allah controls all things, is "powerful over everything" the Qadiruun, the Jabar.
5923
He is Allah, than Whom there is no other Allah, the Sovereign Lord, the Holy One, Peace, the Keeper of Faith, the Guardian, the Majestic, the Compeller, the Superb. Glorified be Allah from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him).God can freely make anything, and makes everything there is, including the exact experience of "seeing yourself sinning" and throwing a person into hell too. Allah did not to create any of these things, but is the creator of all of them.
2868
"And your Lord creates and chooses whatever He wills; never any choice have they; glory be to Allah, and exalted be He above what they associate (with Him).""Chance" included as an "associate" unless it is a name for God, and other partners, "never any choice have they", even "Justice" are partners people make with Allah, Allah makes up whatever, there is no law above Allah, Justice is an invention of God, Allah sets up the court, sets up the case, sets up the accusers, the good guys and the bad guys, says who is who
2531
For so it is that against every prophet We have set up enemies from among those who are lost in sin yet none can guide and give succour as thy Sustainer does!Allah informs you of what you are, what he has made.
7179
And certainly We have created for Hell many of the jinn and men. (Created) for them (are) hearts (but) not they understand with them, and for them (are) eyes (but) not they see with them, and for them (are) ears (but) not they hear with them. Those (are) like cattle, nay they (are) more astray. Those - they (are) the ones you see heedless.478
Wherever you may be, death will overtake you - even though you be in towers raised high. "Yet, when a good thing happens to them, some say, "This is from God," whereas when evil befalls them, they say, "This is from thee !? Say "All is from God." What, then, is amiss with these people that they are in no wise near to grasping the truth of what they are told?5722
No evil befalls on the earth nor in your own souls, but it is in a book before We bring it into existence; surely that is easy to Allah3154
Then, after this woe, He sent down upon you a sense of security, an inner calm which enfolded some of you, whereas the others, who cared mainly for themselves, entertained wrong thoughts about God - thoughts of pagan ignorance - saying, "Did we, then, have any power of decision ?" Say "Verily, all power of decision does rest with God" - they are trying to conceal within themselves that which they would not reveal unto thee, saying, "If we had any power of decision, we would not have left so many dead behind." Say "Even if you had remained in your homes, those whose death had been ordained would indeed have gone forth to the places where they were destined to lie down." And so that God might put to a test all that you harbour in your bosoms, and render your innermost hearts pure of all dross for God is aware of what is in the hearts .5343
and that it is He alone who causes to laugh and to weep;The point isn't that the "Qur'an said it" the point is that it can only be that way logically, any other statement is making partners or saying "Chance determined, God did not determine".
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Bravo!
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Bravo!
Thank you! I'll post my two responses to the emails here too, so maybe others can see and think on it too, hopefully you won't mind!
"if God is the Ultimate/Absolute can God think of something that does not yet exist?"
Yes, because everything that does exist, did not exist with God, it was created. What God doesn't think of, is not, God is non-information which generates all information that does exist, but that doesn't mean everything that exists now "was always there", in fact even in the next moment you will see it all destroyed apparently since you are now apparently existing in a new moment with new information, a new picture, new thoughts, all that was before is gone or else you would be "exactly" in that moment from before, now it is replaced with a new thing "Allah creates and then repeats the creation" can have more than just the obvious meaning of the resurrection.
So God can easily think of what has not been thought of, because even now God is not thinking of you existing as a watermelon, otherwise you indeed would be experiencing being a watermelon right now, and if that thought is occurring elsewhere it is not "exactly you" because you are not experiencing it.
God is in reality the sole one, there is no other, the one who creates information (experiences) and is the one who knows what he creates entirely, sees whatever we see, feels whatever we feel, that doesn't mean it is good for us, it means "that is what you are" you are the experience, that is a particular creation, and God can change it freely and make it not and generate no information and does so constantly, God is not information, but non-information, when something ceases to exist it is called "returning to God" and thus when your experience ceases, it is "non-information" which can not be experienced and you are "returned to God" the state of being non-information and "not you, not anything". Just like light can only be known on reflective surfaces by can't be seen as it fills a room, God is known through "information" but can never directly be "seen" because there is nothing at all to see, all we can ever see is "information" or all we can "ever be informed of". God is beyond such and is the power that generates all the information. The Information was not present nor could it have been, it is constantly created and destroyed 1010101 and Allah is driven by nothing, but drives it all.
"Great answer. I agree fully.
Now if God can create things which did not exist yet, can God focus on that new thing he created and control it completely? If this is possible how do you see this happening?
Peace"It is not a matter of "if". There is simply no other way. This is the "creation", it is information, experience is information, there isn't "information" and "some other thing too" it is Allah generating information, this is it, we, what we do, what we think, is all "information" it is generated by Allah precisely, it does not "run on its own" it doesn't even exist except as Allah makes it that moment how it is. There is not "something else" it is just information."
It doesn't require "focus on that new thing" in order to "control it completely", what it is, is the focus and the creation made, it is not an object being observed, it is the experience itself that is made of the information that moment, then the new creation which is the appearance of the shift. Every moment is created, thus "controlled" in every detail, it is not "God creates and then God controls" the creation itself is the controlling, its moment to moment being created by Allah and can not exist on its own or otherwise, it immediately is no more and returned to Allah as new information created exactly as it appears. So all these "moments" are Allah's creation precisely, including everything, our "thoughts", their apparent sequence, our apparent memories, all existing in that moment of creation as Allah makes it, and then Allah makes another thing, a picture with this memory, this happening, you thinking this. The creation is precisely "so and so seeing and thinking this" there is no part of it that "runs" on its own, it is God creating each instance and doing so without "cause" meaning "no causation" is driving God, God is the "Free Will" and the only "Will" and whatever Allah wills to create, it is Be and it is, but it is not "Be" and it just roams around on its own existing, but every moment is created and destroyed and created and destroyed and staff and snake and snake and staff and its an "illusion" of a "small mind" that we think we are creating or choosing, when it is Allah generating particular instances of a set of information every moment, including the experience of "Oh yeah I remember deciding that, I had these two choices and I chose this one", that is just, lights, camera, action.
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Simple answer, no. It takes reformation and conformity. But a lasting change will blot out previous wrongdoings. It is the current "soul status" that matters, how complete it is.
Your words are worth nothing unless you show it through how you appear. The more perfect the better. It is hard to never do a mistake, but it is possible to very rarely do them. One should never find themselves an excuse, such is not the way of Being. Instead reform and repent.
Be well
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If you hold that to be true, that would imply Iblis is stronger than God, capable of not only disobeying a command but even getting away with it. I don't think that is true. I think Iblis is inferior to God and can only do Gods will. In this case, disobeying when asked to sujud for Adam.Peace
So when humans use their free will and disobey God does it makes them stronger than God?
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So when humans use their free will and disobey God does it makes them stronger than God?
They can never disobey God's will. If God wills disaster on them, the disaster of being misguided for example, that will be so.
Take a look at all those things I wrote to you if you could.
To say "they went against God's will", does God's will fail? Never.
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You asked "Will our sins/wrongdoings be forgiven just by praying for forgiveness?"
The answer Maybe not.
So try other methods too, like doing good rather than evil, plus asking for forgiveness repeatedly.