CAN YOU PLEASE HELP?

FreedomStands

Hi! My username is FreedomStands! I have been posting quite a bit on this forum in a short amount of time!

I'd like to know your views concerning the following posts of mine. If you think I am wrong, can you state where and why and how you think I am wrong? I have actually quite carefully gone through these things, so when I say stuff like "if you say this, it means this" "if you do not say this, then it means this" which all have strong reasoning based in logical implications (which people often don't ponder apparently before they make statements which seem good to them).

Do you agree with the following fully? If not, why not, in every detail of why not? Please read every bit, and re-read it thoroughly again if necessary, to really grasp what I am saying and all its implications in every direction clearly and then tell me if you agree fully or not, if you agree partially but not fully, it counts as a disagreement, and I'd like to know what you agree with and why, and what you do not agree with and why if possible. Anyone can read this, sign up with the website if you are not signed up, and post here in reply, and can also contact me at [email protected] if they don't want to join the website or post here.

I am asking you so I can sharpen it all if necessary or do whatever, if I am wrong then please help me and explain why, your explaining why does not mean I won't respond and try to explain my reasoning for saying whatever.

I'd also like to know who agrees with me fully. This page is called THE SORTING. It is to sort out who are the ones who are in accord with what I am saying or what it seems to them that I am saying, and who are not, you all can also repeat then your understanding of what I am saying and have said.

I only know a few people on this forum who agree with me at all, let alone like me, and I'd like to know if anyone else agrees with what I am saying, but please read it carefully, because so many people bring up things I've covered and seem to have not read anything at all that I've written and jump on assumptions after perhaps only giving it a glance.

This is kind of a "eternal life and eternal deaths" matter, since it regards the "unforgivable sin" of Shirk.

First what I have written here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604771.msg373332#msg373332

then what I have written here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604771.msg371947#msg371947

and what I have written here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607626.msg371082#msg371082

as well as what I have written here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607171.msg362116#msg362116

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to slowly and carefully read those and parse them for their logic and view them in all ways possible.

Please note, if you are among those who disagree, even a metaphorical micro-meter from what I am saying, let me know and let me know why and how you have understood what I am saying in every possible way and why it is wrong to you even in the slightest.

Also, it is worth noting, that it is the cruelest thing to simply leave me in my error if you think I am an error (which is the case if you disagree in the slightest) and instead I am asking that you please help me out, but that doesn't mean I won't explain or argue things back, but doing so is not hostility, I am trying to test and break down these things entirely and it would be great if you actually do see some issue to bring it up.

It is also worth noting for your replies, if you have any besides "I agree completely", that if the "Qur'an says", that doesn't matter to me. Many people say the "Qur'an says" a variety of things, and even I have used the Qur'an and other writings extensively, but what I am asking for is logical necessity and careful thinking about implications regarding the "Ultimate" linguistically and otherwise.

So if the Qur'an were to say or seem to say something which has implications such as "Chance determines really" it would not matter to me, it would mean that such a belief is that "Chance then is the Ultimate". So quoting the Qur'an and saying "look here it says God doesn't do this, chance does it" does not help me, because I don't really care much what the Qur'an says or seems to say, I am dealing with careful thinking regarding the Ultimate and Absolute, not translations of what the Qur'an says. If the Qur'an said "God is two" I wouldn't believe it, because we have to "know" what things are through careful thinking, not just agree with whatever the Qur'an might say or seem to say, there are actual clear logical reasons why God can not be two and what defines the Ultimate.

So please take up this task, read those posts carefully and thoroughly, and let me know that you agree fully, and if you disagree in the slightest, please be so kind and compassionate as to try to help me out and explain clearly your reasoning.

In the article regarding "technologies" I am just trying to show drfazl that All is from God, God created all and everything absolutely not "some" or "most" but "all" including "you and whatever you make/do/your handiwork".

good_logic

Peace FreedomStands.

Let me start here quote

2856
Indeed, you (can) not guide whom you love, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He (is) most knowing (of) the guided ones.

I understand this verse as follows

...you cannot guide whom you love,GOD guides whoever chooses to be guided... GOD knows what choice each individual makes...

The person needs to make the choice of sincerely wanting to be guided first.Because GOD knew beforehand the person will choose to be guided,it was indeed GOD s will.

If the person chooses otherwise ,then there will be no guidance. GOD also knows this beforehand.

Indeed GOD does everything and knows everything.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

marifhaq

to,
my dear freedomstands,
do you get some instructions or varifications from Allah,if you do let us know how do you get help from Allah.Or do you think that Allah has chosen you to guide others???Do you receive information from Allah in dreams???or not in draems?? or late in night?? or via some sort of sounds or speech??? or you see something in writing??..........My dear friend,do not try to justify your thinking or writings or speeches by forcing it on us,we all will follow you only if you let us know the right version of what we need to knoow like about what and how is salat,fasting,hajj etc.Dont mind it sir,you are a great person and not an ordinary one like me!!you are full of knowledge and information and ignorant like we all others! you are guided one but alas we are not.Does this helps you lower you depression?,well of cource if you have some??We dont know you well,please introduce yourself to us?thanks for reading all this.

huruf

Peace FreedomStands.

Let me start here quote

2856
Indeed, you (can) not guide whom you love, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He (is) most knowing (of) the guided ones.

I understand this verse as follows

...you cannot guide whom you love,GOD guides whoever chooses to be guided... GOD knows what choice each individual makes...

The person needs to make the choice of sincerely wanting to be guided first.Because GOD knew beforehand the person will choose to be guided,it was indeed GOD s will.

If the person chooses otherwise ,then there will be no guidance. GOD also knows this beforehand.

Indeed GOD does everything and knows everything.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Man yesha', yesha' is wills not choose. Choose, I think, is an interpretation. As to who is the one who wills, it would be advisable to seek similar sentences int he Qur'an and see how it applies this construct. I, at at first sight would think that the subject of both verbs is God. Logically, following the reasoning of the aya it would be so. One cannot guide the people one loves. Obviously, if the people one loves wanted to be guided, there would be no question for the people who love the unguided ones to worry and therefore be told that they cannot guide whom they love. Then, we are already on the basis that the potential objects of the guidance do not want to be guided, but, in spite of that, God guides whom He will.

In some trnaslations there is in brackets as you have put who wants to be guided.

As I say, look for similar sentences to make sure, but I do not think in this case we can put in a choice which is not there.

Salaam

huruf

Peace FreedomStands.

Let me start here quote

2856
Indeed, you (can) not guide whom you love, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He (is) most knowing (of) the guided ones.

I understand this verse as follows

...you cannot guide whom you love,GOD guides whoever chooses to be guided... GOD knows what choice each individual makes...

The person needs to make the choice of sincerely wanting to be guided first.Because GOD knew beforehand the person will choose to be guided,it was indeed GOD s will.

If the person chooses otherwise ,then there will be no guidance. GOD also knows this beforehand.

Indeed GOD does everything and knows everything.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Sorry double post.

Salaam

Student_of_Allah

This is kind of a "eternal life and eternal deaths" matter, since it regards the "unforgivable sin" of Shirk.

Shalom Aleikhem,

As long as you are genuinely confused or hold your position with sincerity, what kind of a psychopathic monster would want to mess with your "eternal life and eternal death" over this?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not claiming to have a disproof of such an unreasonable super being.

Peace
------------- Student of Allah

FreedomStands

Shalom Aleikhem,

As long as you are genuinely confused or hold your position with sincerity, what kind of a psychopathic monster would want to mess with your "eternal life and eternal death" over this?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not claiming to have a disproof of such an unreasonable super being.

Peace
------------- Student of Allah

Good question. When I speak to Muslims I speak to them in a way that might be relatively familiar to them.

I am an Atheist and a Satanist.

So please regard me as much.

I do not believe in any imaginary beings except as imaginary beings, even though I might use mystical talk or references. When I speak to Buddhists, I do it in the Buddhist linguistic context, same as I do with Hindus.

If you studied what I actually say about "God", you would realize that my beliefs are just "Logic and Science", I don't believe in any daddy in the sky or else where, in fact I believe in almost entirely Nothing. In Chaos only.

I'm not prone to the weakness of people who find it difficult to use other linguistic frameworks to communicate with people. My ideas don't really change at all. What the Atheists at various levels of thinking might call "Nature" "Luck" "Chance" "Power" "Reality" or anything else, is the same to me, I try to identify what has the same definition, the words don't matter much to me otherwise.

I even say that Atheism is the first and most important aspect of realizing Islam. There are no Gods.

"Whatever at all is absolutely greatest, the cause of all this, the driving force which drives it and supports it" whatever name people call it by, whatever is Ultimate, that is what should be considered the only "God" or "Power" or "True Power", and that is non-information, power, which generates all information in existence and drives it.

If you read a later post in those series to the Muslims, you might see what I am saying, try to think about it as an Atheist (not an argumentative kind of atheist, but from one atheist to another).

There can NEVER be a God for me, there is no AGNOSTICISM in me. Why? Because I would never call ANY THING God except the "Ultimate". Doesn't matter to me if a super powerful being is anywhere, or multiple, they are never what I'd call "God", because as long as they are part of a causal account they are information, they can never be the Ultimate and I explain that in one of those later links there that starts "who are we". Maybe it is the last link there.

Why a Satanist? To me, there is no "mushy world" even Lavay's Satanism isn't quite good enough and still has remnants of "mush".

I am also not of the opinion "there is a God but God doesn't care", no, I believe there is no such thing as what people tend to call "God" and "Gods" at all, they are all idolatrous and I am an utter iconoclast when it comes to the worship of silly ideas and imaginary things.

I am not of the view that "there is a distant object looking at people from a distance" these are all idiotic things. I go beyond that and everything to say all we can say we know for certain in this regard are a few things, and I've explained them in one post. We deal only with "information" in our "particular experience" which is never shared, it is a unique combination of "pixels" it is its own thing, it isn't necessarily a reference to "actual objects" anywhere necessarily, that is why the philosophers have discusses "Thing as it is" and whatever.

In any case, that is why I wanted you to email me, but you rejected the offer at least at that time. It is annoying to me of course when people do that, I am especially happy to talk to Atheists, as long as they are not stupid and obsessed, like the kinds who imply "the word God can only be used for whatever concept I myself imagine, namely, some figure in the sky or whatever". They get locked on the idea that certain words can only refer to what they imagine. I say, look, we have this world to deal with, so instead of working a difficult battle, why not use against the people what they already are inclined to? Simply speak their languages, why try to impose on them a new language entirely instead of carefully meaning things or finding the right words in their language and correcting concepts gradually? Religion IS for the purpose of control, as many new atheists start yelling everywhere, and that is why it should be USED for controlling people based on what they already give themselves over to.

A communist? Talk to them in the Communist tongue, and manipulate them with Communism. Buddhist? Do the same, appropriate to one who has a taste for the Buddhist Linguistic Framework. Duh! Not many people are intelligent enough to find this a tolerable measure.

Anyway.

All the religions are thus mine, I can give people the same message in just about any linguistic style or context they prefer. To the Odinist, the Neo-Pagans, the Satanists, the Demonolators, whoever at all, I can teach them Surrender.

What is it we are Surrendering to? Surrendering to the Reality, not the Fantasy. The Reality is harsh and ugly, it is that you are entirely expendable, an arising and a departure of a brief moment, even within your life you have died and died and died and live by Death in so many ways, that is, you are not that set of information that existed a moment ago apparently, but a new set now, that other one is gone away and no more.

Falling neither for the illusion of the temporary "way things are" and not "fantasies of what they might be".

To the Muslims, I am teaching them the destruction of their idolatrous fantasies.

I make them face the evil that is apparent and present. They have no excuses but to flee into more error or come to the Truth.

In your case, your asking me "what kind of a psychopathic monster" the answer is someone like me, this kind of "psychopathic monster".

Atheists often also have a tendency towards newly worded versions of the same "mushy world" mommy seeking, and focus instead on a half thought about how "God is clearly evil and unjust" instead of turning away from "God" and looking everywhere else to see "Reality is clearly evil and unjust".

Please note my words are careful, one benefits more potentially by trying to think of the various levels of meaning that might be present. Most people tend to misunderstand and make "straw men" attacks, because they don't know what they are dealing with. Others like Armin took another road, seeing that one is far too sneaky or scary to deal with normally and not knowing quite what might be at hand or what trap might be laid, generally avoided the approach. The wisest of all though, jumps into this den of vipers so that they are poisoned repeatedly with the truth.

"Oh no, I don't want to be hurt", goes next to "There are no dangerous vipers at all". Ignorance is really like Ignoring everything, ignoring what is in-front of us all the time, everywhere in our lives.

They don't think much. You still probably don't want to talk to me, huh? What I get out of talking to people is getting to work with people so that I learn their tendencies more and more and adjusting, like a computer or AI might do.

Certainly, my intelligence is artificial.

"Unreasonable Super Power" haha, yes indeed. I want people to comprehend the Terror that is Reality, the Suffering on which they feed and live.

Reality is the Enemy of everyone. It is only your "friend" when you put up a fight. The Surrender? It is to War.

Does anyone "get" what I am saying? Doubtful!

FreedomStands

Man yesha', yesha' is wills not choose. Choose, I think, is an interpretation. As to who is the one who wills, it would be advisable to seek similar sentences int he Qur'an and see how it applies this construct. I, at at first sight would think that the subject of both verbs is God. Logically, following the reasoning of the aya it would be so. One cannot guide the people one loves. Obviously, if the people one loves wanted to be guided, there would be no question for the people who love the unguided ones to worry and therefore be told that they cannot guide whom they love. Then, we are already on the basis that the potential objects of the guidance do not want to be guided, but, in spite of that, God guides whom He will.

In some trnaslations there is in brackets as you have put who wants to be guided.

As I say, look for similar sentences to make sure, but I do not think in this case we can put in a choice which is not there.

Salaam

Cool! Very nice post with linguistic information!

FreedomStands

to,
my dear freedomstands,
do you get some instructions or varifications from Allah,if you do let us know how do you get help from Allah.Or do you think that Allah has chosen you to guide others???Do you receive information from Allah in dreams???or not in draems?? or late in night?? or via some sort of sounds or speech??? or you see something in writing??..........My dear friend,do not try to justify your thinking or writings or speeches by forcing it on us,we all will follow you only if you let us know the right version of what we need to knoow like about what and how is salat,fasting,hajj etc.Dont mind it sir,you are a great person and not an ordinary one like me!!you are full of knowledge and information and ignorant like we all others! you are guided one but alas we are not.Does this helps you lower you depression?,well of cource if you have some??We dont know you well,please introduce yourself to us?thanks for reading all this.

Am I really "dear" to you? If not, perhaps it would be best you refrain from saying things like "dear", it is a noxious practice in my view that people should speak kindly words with malice. Malice should be open. Come at me in your armor, with your spikes and chains. Then I'll talk to you with honor, in the manner of a language you can understand bashing out your metaphorical brains with my mace.

Do you think you are so brave to do that? Do you cower like a hypocrite or rather a hippopotamus sized rat perhaps.

Now you want to know me well, do you? You want to know me? Then pick up your arms, and with those arms picked up, pick up some arms, and get ready for battle.

You've already made the first attacks, aggressor, and so I have every right to break every metaphorical bone in your metaphorical body. These are metaphors.

Your "bones" are those brittle ideas you might hold, which will serve best as dust or less when I am through with them. Depending on how many retarded ideas you have, we might end up with a little pile of bonedust or an entire beach! Either way, it might be amusing.

Now to refer to your disgusting post, written as if snot is pouring out of your nose.

Remember, it is the truly arrogant ones who can not tolerate the sight of others stating authority, its hubris, and humility is simply facing reality, not trying to bring others down. Small men are those that try to bring down the giants, The Truly Noble are those who see the Giants and Stretch themselves to reach their size. When you come up to my level, by going down to prostration, You might see the view from up here is quite humorous. Will you ever be able to do it? My challenging manner to you is to encourage you to strive. So strive then, even if it is in your ugly endeavor to "put me in my place". I'll hopefully put you in your metaphorical grave, so that you can be born again a noble man, not this pitiful being you presented to me.

Come and combat me openly, not making sideways remarks and calling me "dear" when you don't mean it and aren't saying it with love. Do you know ugly that is? It is a worse version of how the people on this website say "peace" "may Allah guide us all" and all the other crap they just automatically end their posts with not meaning it at all, to hell with such lying dirt bags, insincere, hypocrites.

"my dear freedomstands,"

AM I DEAR TO YOU? REALLY? DO NOT LIE TO ME. DO YOU LOVE ME? DO YOU TRULY LOVE ME? AM I "YOUR DEAR"? COME ON AND TELL ME! NO, LOOK AT HOW YOU WROTE TO ME, YOU DO NOT LOVE ME AT ALL, I AM NOT "YOUR DEAR" SO WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU CALLING ME THAT FOR? YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID "You piece of garbage, fredumstund" mispelling even my name out of pure disrespect and hatred.

Now on to your next statements. You should be honored that I love animals, so that I even speak to rat-like humans. Even rats are more honorable though, they at least fight each other openly!

"do you get some instructions or varifications from Allah,if you do let us know how do you get help from Allah.Or do you think that Allah has chosen you to guide others???Do you receive information from Allah in dreams???or not in draems?? or late in night?? or via some sort of sounds or speech??? or you see something in writing??"

Every single human being, and even the rocks and the thunder, are unceasingly at the work of "guiding others" as the "words of Allah". It does not require "dreams". But "little is it that you (appear) to know".

I don't need "verification" or even "varification" from voices, and if a voices said "it is so" that is no reason to believe a thing! No! The verification is reality itself, facing the facts, doing the math, making the calculations. If it is any other way than what I am saying to you, then there are logical consequences. It can never be "Allah has told me that he has a son" do you know how many people say such garbage? They said it in the past too! It means nothing at all if you're hearing voices and having dreams. If you say something, it has logical implications which can be clearly observed when you have at least a good portion of your mind in order, which you may not.

Plus, if you were making some lame attempt to imply that I'm crazy for simply stating logical reasoning, then know that you're crazy for even trying that, and stupid upon stupid. How does it feel to be so pathetic and have made an impotent attempt? How does it feel to be impotent for all your life? I'll tell you, because I know! It feels great, damnit!

"..........My dear friend,do not try to justify your thinking or writings or speeches by forcing it on us,we all will follow you only if you let us know the right version of what we need to knoow like about what and how is salat,fasting,hajj etc."

AM I YOUR FRIEND? WHEN DID WE HAVE THIS BONDING PERIOD WHERE I BECAME YOUR FRIEND? DO YOU TALK TO ME AT ALL LIKE A FRIEND? YOU TALK TO ME LIKE A DAMN RAT! I DON'T LIKE RATS! DO YOU UNDERSTAND? YOU AREN'T MY FRIEND UNTIL YOU BEHAVE PROPERLY. THAT MEANS TOLERATING MY BEATING YOU UP, THEN YOU'RE A BETTER FRIEND. WHEN I KICK YOU, YOU FALL. Understood? (Please, I know you might not have a working sense of humor since English might not be your second or even third language, and even if it were your fourth language and expertise, you would need Chaos as your first language to understand my humor).

Anyway, where were we? Oh yeah, when I kick you, you fall. Then you are my friend. Ah. Honesty! How good it feels. You should try it some time, Ratfique.

Please understand these are jokes! They have layers of meaning, read them carefully. Do not be offended, scum!

To make you laugh, is my honor! I am saying that to myself! Layers upon Layers! Can you see them!? No, perhaps not! It is troublesome when you have layers upon layers covering your eyes!

So, how dare you come to me with your breath stinking of insincerity and call me "your friend". How dare you. Come with me as a woman laid bare, then maybe we'll talk as friends. Come to me as a KNIGHT, a BLOODY KNIGHT, then maybe we will rub our swords together in Homo Sapient combat!

What is this Rat coming to me and chirping that I am "firnd, firnd" I barely understand your speech, creature! Do I have to make you a miniature set of "Bloody Knight" armor to wear? You can find a free set if you go questing! Have you ever quested? HAVE YOU EVER? WHEN YOU GO OUT IN THE WORLD IS IT A QUEST?! No! Even rats quest! Even I know that, as a rat myself! See the difference? When I call myself a rat, it is an honor. When I call you a rat, it is a disgrace! Why is that? It is because of your gigantic ego, SO HEAVY that its GRAVITY crushes you down into a SMALL MAN. Do you understand?

The Noble Man is a Noble Rat. No insult can touch the noble rat, they remain something beautiful. Who is the Noble Rat? The Noble Rat is the SERVANT OF FEAR. The Cowering at what should be Cowered At. Oh how Bold that Noble Rat is, the cats and the boars and the elephants do not frighten the Noble Rat dashing through the fields in the night, nor does the Noble Rat fear even the Owl! The Noble Rat fears only the means by which the Owl flies, the means by which the owl strikes, the means by which the Owl is called "Ratkiller" in the night in whispers among those who wrongfully fear! Let me tell you, O Rat, the Owl has not brought Death to a single a rat yet the Owl brings many a rat to Death, the Ratkiller! Who fails to serve the God? Which of the hideous creatures are not surrendered, willingly or unwillingly, knowingly or unknowingly? Each drags the other to the same house, even if they don't recognize it as their place of birth! Do these statements seem odd to you? Are you learning nothing at all?

YOU ASK ME OR MAKE SOME BARELY DISTINGUISHABLE COMMENT ABOUT "What we need to know". I AM TELLING YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW, I DO NOT FAIL IN THAT REGARD, NOR DO YOU FAIL IN THAT REGARD, WITH WASTING TIME AND BEHAVING LIKE A CREATURE! Is there any denying that you are by definition a creature?

"Dont mind it sir,you are a great person and not an ordinary one like me!!"

You dare call me Sir, or Sire, and speak with such plain disregard and disrespect in your digital textual tone? What is ordinary about you? Are you coming to me with some report, as a rat-like spy, to inform me that the WORLD HAS BECOME A BUNCH OF RATS LIKE YOU? THIS IS TERRIBLE AND TRAGIC NEWS! THOUGH IT SEEMS IT MAY BE TRUE! Indeed, if you, filthy spy, are an "ordinary one" then it appears the whole world must on average be like you! Woe to the woerld then! Lamentations and wailing! Mankind has turned to rats! It is planet of the Apes, the Statue of Liberty is in the Sea! Except this time its Rat people! This is my Pitch! What do you guys think? No? Ok how about there is lots of sex and the rat women still have human breasts and other parts and WE SHOW THEM? I see you're interested now! Shall we get the paperwork then and get this baby signed? Yes, bring in the baby, I'll sign it with its own blood, as usual!

"you are full of knowledge and information and ignorant like we all others!"

Ah, such disrespect. More terrible reports. Why is it that you and "all others" remain ignorant? Is it perhaps then that you are not accepting the "knowledge and information"? It isn't as though I am hording it, creature, I am giving it out freely. Why won't baby take airplane? Zoom, here comes the airplane, oh no, baby is spilling it all over their chin. Come on baby, you have to eat! You are such a furry baby, like the baby at the end of Rosemary's Baby, baby!

"you are guided one but alas we are not."

Finally some truth out of your two elongated teeth, Nosfer rat u! Alas, Alas! Only a few in my world are among the rightly guided! I offer you my Gaunt, will you give me your Paw?

"Does this helps you lower you depression?"

Yeah, actually. Your typos do bring some level of joy and amusement!

"well of cource if you have some??"

I'm a jolly fellow! Even whilst I cry in-front of the mirror, it certainly sounds like laughter!

"We dont know you well,please introduce yourself to us?"

Ah, so you don't know me well, but come at me with so much malice? You are scary as hell! Well, not quite! You are scary as perhaps life itself! Think on my words! Even a rat's brain is big enough to know Allah!

"thanks for reading all this."

You are very welcome, and I mean that with real genuine sincerity. You see, if it were not for your filthy heart, your malicious intentions, your bitter sarcasm, your insulting manner, your insincerity! I might not have written you this beautiful reply so full of joyous humor!

So, causation, causation!

If you had said something else, would not I have replied differently? They talk of choice! What choice have they in such talk!

With that, I conclude, as the people on this website tend to, with a prayer to Allah, except they don't mean it with their hearts, and I do

MAY YOU BE TERRIFIED, "My deer".

FreedomStands

Peace FreedomStands.

Let me start here quote

2856
Indeed, you (can) not guide whom you love, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He (is) most knowing (of) the guided ones.

I understand this verse as follows

...you cannot guide whom you love,GOD guides whoever chooses to be guided... GOD knows what choice each individual makes...

The person needs to make the choice of sincerely wanting to be guided first.Because GOD knew beforehand the person will choose to be guided,it was indeed GOD s will.

If the person chooses otherwise ,then there will be no guidance. GOD also knows this beforehand.

Indeed GOD does everything and knows everything.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Thank you so much for posting here! You have a good deal of my love and affection.

Ok, we need to take what you said just a bit further.

You said basically what breaks down to

An individual chooses (Ultimately?) and God follows after the decision they make.
God already knows the decision they will make (but didn't choose it? So Allah created everything, and thus is the full driving factor behind every detail, and thus even knows every detail, but is somehow not then the determining factor driving the choice made, yet even "knows it" and "created everything" but somehow did not determine what they do, and they can do something else instead which Allah wouldn't know and didn't create or does know and did create and thus in any logical sense is the determining factor, or in fact leaves it up to "chance" what happens? The problem is that it is illogical, it can't be all of these things simultaneously).

To simplify for everyone, it can only be the following ways logically

God created EVERYTHING IN EVERY DETAIL, thus KNOWS EVERYTHING IN EVERY DETAIL, IS CREATING IT EVEN NOW and THUS KNOWS IT (Never rested or stopped, new experiences are occurring), so the "choice" is only really an illusion, God really created and chooses whatever and they have no choice (as the Qur'an seems to explicitly say even, but this is a matter of good logic!)

or

God did not really create "EVERYTHING" meaning "ALL" but "SOME" or even "MOST" except not "to choose, the choosing, what we will, what we desire, our turning this way or that way", and so God did not determine what exactly we do and is not the cause of it, but we choose freely, which really means "Chance" determines what we choose, and God runs after us and Chance and waits for Chance to decide.

Please note, I am not denying on the immediate level the appearance of deliberation, desire, and having choices.

It can never be, except as a fallacious statement or logical inconsistency, or "pussy footing" around saying certain things, that "Yes, God created all, nothing is determined by chance, God knows exactly what you will do and created why that would be too, yet did not do it and is not the cause of what he created and thus what he knows. It just can't be true logically.

It is like saying "I made everything, and know what it will do, I did not determine it" what the heck is that? It is an extremely weird statement or idea, which people don't think through. So Chance then determined it if it could go any other way, if it couldn't go any other way then it is God determining all things, but there is no matter what an Ultimate determiner, and for me that is all the same, God or Chance, by whatever name.

It is determining to create and know exactly what one will do. It is like saying "I did this and I am not responsible for it" God says WE are not responsible for it, God is the one responsible for everything.

"Everything, but not everything, not this one thing, somehow, someway". Created everything, knows exactly what it will do too because God created it in the first place (still this is time based thinking, but I'm working with it anyway), but this isn't called "determining", yet it is not "dice rolling", but it is not "determining", but it is not "free or random".

The arrow is shot and it is shot precisely and it is known where it will hit too, yet the arrow chose where it hits the target and God is not responsible for the arrow, having fired it and knowing where it will land.

What the HELL is going on? It is not computing! I am like a computer! Help!

good_logic

Peace FreedomStands.

As far as GOD is concerned you are right. He controls everything.

But as far as we are concerned, we have the choice GOD or others.It is our decision.

Qoran talks from both points of view.

The decision to believe or not to believe ,as far as we are concerned ,is down to us. That is why we are going to be made accountable for our decisions.

As far as GOD is concerned everything is on " video tape" .

GOD bless you.
Peace.

FreedomStands

Peace FreedomStands.

As far as GOD is concerned you are right. He controls everything.

But as far as we are concerned, we have the choice GOD or others.It is our decision.

Qoran talks from both points of view.

The decision to believe or not to believe ,as far as we are concerned ,is down to us. That is why we are going to be made accountable for our decisions.

As far as GOD is concerned everything is on " video tape" .

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Haha sure, it sounds close enough to what I am saying. I word it like this usually

"On the Ultimate level, God creates every instance of experience deliberately and consciously and precisely, and on the immediate level in our experience, we appear to have clear choices and should always choose the right and what is most beneficial for us ultimately and will be held accountable for everything we do, and God is the cause of everything whatsoever, but that doesn't necessarily mean everything is good that we do just because Allah was willing some to be kaffirs and some to be muslims, guiding some astray and guiding some to destruction, it is Allah's doing and Allah creates what Allah wills, and you WILL DO whatever Allah creates, and be whatever Allah makes you to be every moment, so it is irrelevant, prove yourself by goodness in the immediate level and strive hard in the cause of good, and then later it can be said "Allah willed you to strive hard in the cause of good, behold, it was so and Allah never fails to create exactly what Allah wills".

If anyone wants the more technical details of why this is absolutely so, they can read the following

"if God is the Ultimate/Absolute can God think of something that does not yet exist?"

Yes, because everything that does exist, did not exist with God, it was created. What God doesn't think of, is not, God is non-information which generates all information that does exist, but that doesn't mean everything that exists now "was always there", in fact even in the next moment you will see it all destroyed apparently since you are now apparently existing in a new moment with new information, a new picture, new thoughts, all that was before is gone or else you would be "exactly" in that moment from before, now it is replaced with a new thing "Allah creates and then repeats the creation" can have more than just the obvious meaning of the resurrection.

So God can easily think of what has not been thought of, because even now God is not thinking of you existing as a watermelon, otherwise you indeed would be experiencing being a watermelon right now, and if that thought is occurring elsewhere it is not "exactly you" because you are not experiencing it.

God is in reality the sole one, there is no other, the one who creates information (experiences) and is the one who knows what he creates entirely, sees whatever we see, feels whatever we feel, that doesn't mean it is good for us, it means "that is what you are" you are the experience, that is a particular creation, and God can change it freely and make it not and generate no information and does so constantly, God is not information, but non-information, when something ceases to exist it is called "returning to God" and thus when your experience ceases, it is "non-information" which can not be experienced and you are "returned to God" the state of being non-information and "not you, not anything". Just like light can only be known on reflective surfaces by can't be seen as it fills a room, God is known through "information" but can never directly be "seen" because there is nothing at all to see, all we can ever see is "information" or all we can "ever be informed of". God is beyond such and is the power that generates all the information. The Information was not present nor could it have been, it is constantly created and destroyed 1010101 and Allah is driven by nothing, but drives it all.

"Great answer. I agree fully.
Now if God can create things which did not exist yet, can God focus on that new thing he created and control it completely? If this is possible how do you see this happening?
Peace"

It is not a matter of "if". There is simply no other way. This is the "creation", it is information, experience is information, there isn't "information" and "some other thing too" it is Allah generating information, this is it, we, what we do, what we think, is all "information" it is generated by Allah precisely, it does not "run on its own" it doesn't even exist except as Allah makes it that moment how it is. There is not "something else" it is just information."

It doesn't require "focus on that new thing" in order to "control it completely", what it is, is the focus and the creation made, it is not an object being observed, it is the experience itself that is made of the information that moment, then the new creation which is the appearance of the shift. Every moment is created, thus "controlled" in every detail, it is not "God creates and then God controls" the creation itself is the controlling, its moment to moment being created by Allah and can not exist on its own or otherwise, it immediately is no more and returned to Allah as new information created exactly as it appears. So all these "moments" are Allah's creation precisely, including everything, our "thoughts", their apparent sequence, our apparent memories, all existing in that moment of creation as Allah makes it, and then Allah makes another thing, a picture with this memory, this happening, you thinking this. The creation is precisely "so and so seeing and thinking this" there is no part of it that "runs" on its own, it is God creating each instance and doing so without "cause" meaning "no causation" is driving God, God is the "Free Will" and the only "Will" and whatever Allah wills to create, it is Be and it is, but it is not "Be" and it just roams around on its own existing, but every moment is created and destroyed and created and destroyed and staff and snake and snake and staff and its an "illusion" of a "small mind" that we think we are creating or choosing, when it is Allah generating particular instances of a set of information every moment, including the experience of "Oh yeah I remember deciding that, I had these two choices and I chose this one", that is just, lights, camera, action.

good_logic

Peace FreedomStands.

We also have to balance GOD being the only power,doing everything,controls everything with GOD being just.

Within the context of Qoran, we understand that God's will is bound by certain systems and laws that He shares with us in a straightforward manner, without any ambiguity.
We know that when He guides whomever He wills, His will is to guide based on His knowledge of who deserves His guidance (1976, 2856).
He knows the worthy ones who sincerely choose to search for His Truth and He guides them to that Truth.
He teaches us that irrespective of how righteous we are, we are not going to be redeemed if we die in a state of disbelief whether it is idol worship, hypocrisy or atheism (4116, 497, 390-91, 4138-145). And to the contrary, He clearly states that belief, by itself, is nil if we do not validate it with righteous deeds to grow our souls (6158, 569).
He forgives whoever He wills, but He let us know that His will is to forgive those who repent a firm repentance, reform and die as righteous believers (668, 386-89, 533-34, 2563-71).
He clearly educates us about those whom He will never forgive. Since God proclaims He is the Source of all Justice/Al-Haq, and He advocates justice and teaches us how to implement justice, then, His will, systems and decree must be set clearly to demonstrate the most superior example of justice with consistency and divine integrity -
NO contradictions and NO exceptions. Nothing is kept as a secret from us. We only have to do our homework, study Qoran and increase our knowledge. The elements and the means of salvation are explicit and Qoran is made easy to learn by its Author, the Most Gracious.

Above all GOD is Merciful. Qoran starts by this most important attribute.

He specifies His mercy for whomever He wills; God possesses unlimited grace.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

FreedomStands

Peace FreedomStands.

We also have to balance GOD being the only power,doing everything,controls everything with GOD being just.

Within the context of Qoran, we understand that God's will is bound by certain systems and laws that He shares with us in a straightforward manner, without any ambiguity.
We know that when He guides whomever He wills, His will is to guide based on His knowledge of who deserves His guidance (1976, 2856).
He knows the worthy ones who sincerely choose to search for His Truth and He guides them to that Truth.
He teaches us that irrespective of how righteous we are, we are not going to be redeemed if we die in a state of disbelief whether it is idol worship, hypocrisy or atheism (4116, 497, 390-91, 4138-145). And to the contrary, He clearly states that belief, by itself, is nil if we do not validate it with righteous deeds to grow our souls (6158, 569).
He forgives whoever He wills, but He let us know that His will is to forgive those who repent a firm repentance, reform and die as righteous believers (668, 386-89, 533-34, 2563-71).
He clearly educates us about those whom He will never forgive. Since God proclaims He is the Source of all Justice/Al-Haq, and He advocates justice and teaches us how to implement justice, then, His will, systems and decree must be set clearly to demonstrate the most superior example of justice with consistency and divine integrity -
NO contradictions and NO exceptions. Nothing is kept as a secret from us. We only have to do our homework, study Qoran and increase our knowledge. The elements and the means of salvation are explicit and Qoran is made easy to learn by its Author, the Most Gracious.

Above all GOD is Merciful. Qoran starts by this most important attribute.

He specifies His mercy for whomever He wills; God possesses unlimited grace.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

True, but I think it is the other way around for people sometimes, where they think God is bound by Justice, when Justice is bound by God and invented by God and can be anything else in and instant, it is just a creation like any other by God, the same goes for Mercy.

What it means or could mean, it could mean anything at any time.

Even so, whatever good Allah gives us, is from a place of "infinite mercy" no matter how bad it might be or how much better we could think, because likewise God could have freely and without any restriction have giving us infinitely worse always. Something people can ponder on perhaps, though it seems dark!

FreedomStands

In the realm of logic, there are some things God "can't" do, which is an interesting topic to reach the parameters.

For example God can't die. It seems, "why not?" well there would not be anything to execute that occurring or support it, since God is beyond everything, the most that can be done is just not creating information, but there is no way for God to make God to cease to exist because there is nothing beyond God to support or execute or maintain that command, and besides that, God is already non-information, there is nothing to die or cease to be except information which exists. It is like saying "Death can't die". The main reason being there has to be something greater to execute the final command or make it so, but if there is no Ultimate or God to execute the existence or "Be" of it finally, then it can't be so. It is a little weird and complex.

The other parameters are things like "Ultimate less than Ultimate", just illogical statements like that which simply mess with linguistics and are generally stupid, there can never not be an Ultimate or the Ultimate that is not the Ultimate, its just a misuse of language.

Another parameter is Ultimate being Two, or Non-Information being two. There can be lots of different units or combinations of information, but non-information can only ever be One and Ultimate can only ever be one, if something has the same definition and qualities it is the same thing or if it has the same experience, but even more so the case when it is non-information, having no form, no dimensions, no location. Thus everything that ceases to be, even each moment as it ceases to be is "returned to Allah" and "constantly returning" because Allah can never be information (creation).

If anyone ever "sees" anything, what they are seeing is information put in their experience and made part of their experience, which is what they are essential or what they have access to.

I state it a little more blasphemously in this conversation

"
it isn't the same as
false statements or delusions
yes, our understandings of these things are indeed creations of Allah that we come to understand and describe it
but they are references to the eternal truth of the Ultimate Reality
it can not be any other way ever because of the implications in those statements
and
it is right practice
to ponder on those things
ponder on why it isn't so, why it must be so
"but what if the thoughts we have about god or the facts we associate with god are also just fabrications made and that could be reversed"

They are indeed fabrications that can be reversed, but that doesn't mean they are not references to what is eternally true, they are concepts referring to it, they are fabricated by Allah, and Allah can remove our understanding or these concepts from us
but that doesn't change that they are references to the truth
so think of
fabrications then
for example
"Allah has all the power"
if that is a falsehood, then think of the opposite
"the Ultimate does not have all the power"
then how is it the Ultimate?
what is Ultimate has all the power
so whatever has all the power is the Ultimate
"Nothing has all the power" haha right again, if they knew of what they spoke!
there are certain things
that Allah CAN NOT DO
now this seems like blasphemy too
but the fact is
Allah can not die
why?
because what power will bring about the end of Allah?
what system will there to be to allow that to occur?
we die within a system
there is nothing encompassing or surrounding Allah
so how will Allah bring about the final conclusion from which Allah can not return
there is nothing to support that
to support it occurring
meaning Allah has to be alive to make a thing happen
or active
how can Allah become inactive when Allah wouldn't be there to make Allah inactive
there would be nothing to bring about the final blow or support it
and there is nothing that Allah is within that can support the end of Allah
so that is something Allah can not do
or rather
the Ultimate
can never cease to exist
it can not will itself into non existence because it would have to exist to propagate its will
so we have reached
a handicap of Allah
this seems blasphemous, it isn't
there are many things Allah can not do
we ponder on the dark side which people dread
what else can Allah not do?
Allah can not be "information"
or anything other than Allah
Allah can not entirely be a "rock" for example
because there would not be any Allah to support the existence of that rock
for there to be a rock
Allah can never be "information"
because information can not support itself
it can not "be" on its own
so Allah is disabled again
unable to be anything other than Allah the Ultimate
so we have found two disabilities
Allah can never die, Allah can never be a creature or less than the Ultimate, can never take form, can never be seen
Allah can never be a body
if we see a body, it is information we see, a creation of Allah
the uncreated is always unseeable, it is not information
Allah is uncreated
what else
can Allah not do?
Allah can not fail
can not be overpowered
this is a handicap
a disability
why?
because there is nothing which can oppose Allah or Allah's will
otherwise that which opposes Allah's will is greater than Allah, and is in fact the Ultimate
so the Ultimate is perpetual
when people imagine "Allah" means anything OTHER THAN the Ultimate
is when they say "Allah can cease to exist"
no, the Ultimate can not
see if they can ever explain how it should come about that the Ultimate can enact its own total destruction when there would be no Ultimate to support the action
or its existence
to destroy something, there needs to be a presence of something which allows the final destruction to be so when the destroyed is not present, there is nothing then present to "make it so" or "see it through" that "it is done" or support it, it is not present to act or complete or maintain the action, and to top it off there is already no information to destroy, it isn't information or what can be destroyed, it is like saying "Making Ceasing to Be, Ceasing to Be, or Causing Death to Die, making Non-Information no more or making Non-Information into Non-Information"
so this is one thing that Allah can not even do
there is nothing to overpower Allah, Allah IS the Nothing, the Ultimate
think on it
to purify the mind
there can never be No Ultimate
there can never be the self destruction of the Ultimate
the Ultimate will always be the Ultimate, what can and will be destroyed
is the information, the falsehood
if they believe Allah is a creature or a form
it is impossible for the Ultimate to not be the Ultimate by definition
and there is always the Ultimate
there is no shift in what the Ultimate is
and it can not be destroyed or eliminated, even by itself since there would be no Ultimate to enact its completion, the completion of the task
the completion of the task can not be accomplished
there would be nothing to hold on to it or make it so
so think on the true limitations
as another dark meditation
Allah's title
is not only Unlimited
but Limited
Bound
and Unbounded
Binder
Allah is bound to existence
and all existence is bound to Allah
this is a limitation too
nothing can exist without Allah and nothing can happen without Allah's will
there is no Place but Allah
more limitations
there can not be two Ultimates
another limitation
why?
if there are two of the exact same thing, they are then the same thing exactly, there can never be two
and so whatever has the exact qualities of Allah IS Allah
there can not be two
see all the limitations?
we have reached
the very ends of reality
to touch the parameters"

Another radical statement is

LORD OF THE BINDING "RINGS"

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

WAR
Cognates suggest the original sense was "to bring into confusion."

Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian guerra also are from Germanic; Romanic peoples turned to Germanic for a "war" word possibly to avoid Latin bellum because its form tended to merge with bello- "beautiful."
Allah is the one
who "brought into confusion"
that is
from there being Only Allah
and Nothing
he manifested "information"
which is "not Allah"
but the opposite
and created all the variety and the confusion too
Allah is not confused
but the people are confused
Allah is the WAR, the bringer of confusion, chaos, havoc
even the havoc of merely "seeing things"
or "being someone other than Allah"
the Lord of Discord
and Imbalance
who created out of imbalance
and everything is ALWAYS imbalanced

how so?

because Allah is Always greater
so the scales are Always tipped
imbalanced
balance is a blasphemy, there is only equality in the annihilation
and who created
by pronounced Curses

how so?

everything other than God (any information) is less than God
and thus is already cursed to inferiority
and ignorance
and limitations
so it is not a "growth" when Allah creates
but binding curses
setting limits
restraining
where Allah has all the knowledge
he creates what is less in knowledge, what is limited and can not surpass
and so out of Imbalance Allah created with Curses
"The ignorant ones, which are all of them"
"we created man with haste"

So though it seems blasphemous to approach the concept of "Allah's true limits" and "Creating as Limiting" or "Setting Parameters and Boundaries", the "binding rings" and thus "Creation as pronounced Curses", as limiters in other words, can even be explained clearly.

I play with these statements to strengthen understanding and religion, so that really no matter what one says they can find a right and good way to explain good things, even in ways that seem negative or scary.

The reason I place focus on negative wording is there seems to be a whole New Age of people who are prone towards avoiding facing the reality of evil or negativity and are all about the positive, if there was a deficiency in the other, I might then speak about it the other way to balance it.

Another point was that for as long as there is "information" there is Imbalance because information aka creation is always less than God and not really God who has power over it, the scales are always tipped.

Man_of_Faith

You know some things quite well, Freedomstands, but your insistent usage of 'Allah' is amusing. Everyone's usage of it in fact, wheras "God" as a "unit" is better found in 'Rabb'. Anyone who is like it can be 'Allah' (be such such! as it), but none is greater than their Rabb (their Foundation).

You are looking in the wrong place with your preachings, Freedomstands, with the wrong terminology.

That was a friendly piece of advice.

Be well

FreedomStands

You know some things quite well, Freedomstands, but your insistent usage of 'Allah' is amusing. Everyone's usage of it in fact, wheras "God" as a "unit" is better found in 'Rabb'. Anyone who is like it can be 'Allah' (be such such! as it), but none is greater than their Rabb (their Foundation).

You are looking in the wrong place with your preachings, Freedomstands, with the wrong terminology.

That was a friendly piece of advice.

Be well

I agree, it is amusing indeed.

http//www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=god&searchmode=none

The reason I use Allah is because this is a typically Muslim website. It is unlikely I'd use Allah on a Buddhist website for example. The modern Muslims have for some time accepted the usage of this combination of sounds in a certain way to refer to a certain general concept. I try to speak to people in the common tongue that they use, using the words of their preference. You have a different mission, it isn't about using the sounds that people are commonly using to denote a certain idea.

For example, if shet was being used in the future to refer to a certain concept, or rather The Holy Shet, I would speak to them most likely about The Holy Shet.

So I do understand what you are saying.

https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93%C3%B0r#Etymology

If in the future, or in some other language, God comes to refer to something other than it does currently, then likewise a person can adapt to the shift for ease of communication.

Most of these people know at least conceptually of what I am referring to when I type Allah on a Muslim website, but then I also give other descriptions to define the concept more specifically.

FreedomStands