Peace. Punishment for sex before marriage.
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Peace agphys,
This punishment is only when the sexual act has been witnessed by 4 witnesses. Less than 4 witnesses and there will be no punishment. So if there are only 3 witnesses then one is not a zani or zania and no punishment.
This logically proves that zina is not just the sexual act but a PUBLIC sexual act witnessed by at least 4 witnesses. One becomes zani or zania only AFTER witnessed by 4 witnesses. Less than 4 witnesses and one is not zani or zania even when one engages in the sexual act.
Practically the government laws of the country where such an act has been committed will have to be followed. Vigilantism is not condoned by any spiritual teaching.
Peace
What do you classify as a witness? must a witness see the action with their own eyes or does it count if they hear it from my mouth?
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Sex is consummation of marriage. It means the finalizing bonding. Oaths can be taken at any time preferably prior to that.
Formal marriage ceremony and official papers can be good to keep the respect from people of this world.
Be well
Emanuel -
zanah to commit fornication, be a harlot
Original Word
Part of Speech Verb
Transliteration zanah
Phonetic Spelling (zaw-naw'
Short Definition harlotWord Origin
a prim. rootDefinition
to commit fornication, be a harlotNASB Translation
adulterous (1), become a harlot (1), commit adultery (1), commits flagrant harlotry (1), fall to harlotry (1), harlot (22), harlot continually (1), harlot's (2), harlot's* (2), harlot* (3), harlotry (3), harlots (5), making her a harlot (1), play the harlot (1, play the harlot continually (1), played the harlot (24), playing the harlot (3), plays the harlot (1), prostitute (1), unfaithful (1).You really sure about that bud? i kinda agree that sex with a GF is not to be considered Zina or fornication but i'm not sure 0rgies and one night stands would get a free pass from God as long as it's not a ritual- just saying though
Yeah I'm sure about that "bud' (I absolutely hate that word). Zina is spiritual harlotry. I'm not saying a promiscuous lifestyle is a good thing. But it's never referred to with the term 'zina' in Quran.
The condition of 4 witnesses can't possibly apply to witnessing sexual promiscuity.
Flawed logic
- zina = sexual promiscuity
- punishment for zina = the whip
- condition for punishment = 4 witnesses
- 4 witnesses never apply to such a thing, so HOORAY for not having to whip anyone!
Peace
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Infidelity is a much better understanding. Since it involves breaking your promise of allegiance. To God or to whomever one gives allegiances to.
Peace
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Let's talk about a very mundane example of zina witnessed by millions everyday.
Corrupt politicians is what I'm talking about. All of them are harlots to corporate interests. They betray their allegiance to those voting for them by defending the interests of the corporations financially backing their election campaigns. Their zina is a betrayal of their allegiance they swear into by oath to the constitution. To cover up this harlotry in some western countries corporations are by law natural persons. They have all the rights of a natural person yet can not be persecuted for crimes they commit.
I say such crimes deserve at least a punishment by the whip.
Peace
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Let's talk about a very mundane example of zina witnessed by millions everyday.
Corrupt politicians is what I'm talking about. All of them are harlots to corporate interests ...
... I say such crimes deserve at least a punishment by the whip.I mean no disrespect @rlz but, "politicians" have nothing to do with this!
For once, I don't see how "politics" has anything to do with getting 100 lashes, and receiving half of it (50l), for committing zin! The rampant crime of infidelity seems to be the intended meaning.
For examples of zin and/or fhisheh (in general) see The Jerry Springer Show.
The host is a former politician, btw
SLM
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Are you claiming it makes more sense in an understanding of adultery?
To me, it seems the understanding of zina does not change anything in the regard of amount of lashes.
But here is my understanding
Mushrikun are associators attributing partners to God
al-zn are betrayers and harlots to God (eg forging forbidden alliances with mushrikun or Jews, befriending those who disrespect the faith, those turning to polytheistic ways)Mushrikun and al-zani can only marry each other. Believers are forbidden to marry such a person as part of their oath. This makes sense because one who attributes partners to God should not be entitled to have a partner (by marriage) in someone who believes in the One God. These are measures not only to protect the believers (from slander caused by the bad habits of their partner) but also to keep the faith pure.
When a believer who is married betrays the quranic oath, the measure of punishment is decided by how they have taken their oaths. Did they convert to such an oath by marriage (converts), or did they take such quranic oath before they got married (being of the believers before marriage)?
Examples of breaking such an oath at the time of Quran could consist of taking Jews or polytheists (or any group disrespecting believers) as allies/close friends, or taking part in polytheistic worship.
I have no clue why people keep insisting on a sexual interpretation of these verses. Are you seriously convinced flogging adulterers is a good way to deal with them? Even if you are agreeing with such an idea, the condition of 4 witnesses makes the whole sexual interpretation and the punishment devoid of any meaning.
To me zina is not a form of harlotry that involves betraying your partner but indeed a betrayal towards God. 4 witnesses should be easy to find, if you are convinced someone eg. is betraying God by resorting to polytheistic ways or worshipping Jesus like a God or having close relationships with those who mock our faith.
The 50 lashes are a different measurement for those who married into the faith. It seems God finds transgression by those with a "mushrikun" past easier to forgive (given their non-monotheistic past). Especially for those who married with muslims when they were conquered by them one could argue they did not have a free choice to decide or are more easily confused about where their loyalty should be.
Now apply the sexual understanding and look how absurd the rendition is getting is God forbidding the believers "NOT TO MARRY ADULTERERS"? Who on earth would want to marry someone who has proven to be an adulterer? Again the sexual interpretation renders the Quran to borderline nonsense.
Muslims who claim the whole porn industry and anyone being disloyal in marriage should be flogged are only given more ammunition to the islamophobics. And quite frankly people who promote such ideas are pretty scary indeed.
Peace
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Hello,
Adultery is a serious offense, not to be taken lightly, because it may cause intense emotional damage to the victim and it may ruin the marriage. However, it is important to know that God will punish the culprit sufficiently that additional punishment hardly is necessary. Many of those who commit adultery also regret themselves deeply, self-inflicting punishment in themselves and one solution to this is simply by having better self-control to begin with. It is a societal problem where sex is okay from right to left.
One solution is to not even look at another man/woman with desire. Be determined about it.
For people who have succumbed to their bodies, it is easy to fall prey to this. The instinctive drive (Satan) is strong when not held in check by a strong Spirit.
Be well
Emanuel -
Sex before marriage; the actual sex act consummates a marriage meaning this couple is married at that time and cannot separate from each other without it being a sin, disregarding whether married at (human) law or not. They are recommended making their marriage legal by law and continuing with each other forever after. It is wise to reflect upon with whom one has sex with. Divorce is virtually impossible.
Sex cannot be done at own desire, it has to be controlled. But if one likes to be an animal they can proceed.
Be well
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Sex before marriage; the actual sex act consummates a marriage meaning this couple is married at that time and cannot separate from each other without it being a sin, disregarding whether married at (human) law or not. They are recommended making their marriage legal by law and continuing with each other forever after. It is wise to reflect upon with whom one has sex with. Divorce is virtually impossible.
Sex cannot be done at own desire, it has to be controlled. But if one likes to be an animal they can proceed.
Be well
What is sex? I know that sounds like a daft kind of question, but please tell me what constitutes as sex and why? For example, I've been having intercourse with you for a long time, but pretty well controlled. Where does the difference arise? I haven't been typing with my genitals, but with my fingers (that is what they call these things I think, and don't worry, mine are pretty sexy, even the hair), yet some people stick fingers in various orifices of their bodies. I need to know where the lines are drawn and why they are drawn there. How else can an architect function?
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The kind of sex that can result in new life. That one.
-Salaam
A life would require quite a bit of responsibilities, but wouldn't any social interaction require responsibilities as well? What if something you say or do ends up leading to a new life happening or not happening, or perhaps leads to the death of someone?
What about methods of impregnation which don't have any contact considered sexual at all?
What then is also so relevant about a human life as compared to other lives? What is the importance of life at all?
Is it less of a horrific act to traumatize a fully aware adult individual by sexually involving oneself and then not being loyal, regardless of the ability to have children?