UK: New Member LONG POST
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How do you pray exactly then? You said 3 prayers without mentioning the salam to prophets and ahle bait.
What about rest of the stuff ? do you do the rest as sunni does? (rakas, sitting, etc)?Does it mention in Quran, how to pray?
CheersPeace
I am a former sectarian(a sunni) until about last month(kind of). I was raised a Sunni but always had problems with it from a very young age. I would ask my parents questions that in their eyes would be blasphemy. My first question to them was, how people knew their prayer time tables when there was no technology available and asked them why you had to look right and left to greet angels when ending prayer. I got no answer from them and was told to shut up. From that point I was sent to madrasa to learn about Sunnism because they feared that I would leave Islam just because I asked simple questions. There is a "don't think just follow" mentality. You cannot ask any questions. The long-bearded man dressed up in Arab clothing who calls himself Sheikh was the only way you could learn about Islam. My parents discouraged me from reading the Quran and make up my mind from what I understood. Instead, I was told to listen to scholars interpretation of the Quran(the call it tafsir) or go to madrasa and listen to the scholar there. What they call reading Quran is to recite it out loud.
Whenever I read hadith books, it took me farther away from Islam. It paints an image of the prophet Muhammad as a man of war, oppression, sex and paedophilia. It paints a picture of God as a evil, dictator-like being. There were flaws an superstitions everywhere. The Quran though, brought peace to my heart. I saw God as merciful and perfect. The Quran describes all the Prophets as men of good character. I could not find any crookedness in the Quran, it was perfect. From that point I knew there was something wrong with hadith books. I tried to ignore this and was afraid.
The first domino to fall was the hadith claiming that Muhammad married a six year old child and had sex with the child at the age of 9. That I could never accept.
"And indeed, you are of a great moral character."
How could a man who is described in the Quran as a man of great moral character marry and have sex with a child? I asked my parents and they gave me answers with some mental gymnastics. They claim that it was considered normal for people to marry at a very young age at that time. Really? It was also considered normal to bury baby girls alive, does that mean its ok? I asked others and claimed that the hot climate in the Middle East caused the vaginas to become unusually warm and moist hence trigger their periods early and then become a woman very early. So one evening, I told my mother that I don't believe the Prophet did that and asked if she was ready to fulfil the sunna of the Prophet and allow her nine year daughter to get married and she got upset.3 years later(last August), I came to the final conclusion that hadith books were not just a mistake or written by trolls in an attempt to character assassinate Muhammad but were in fact written to deceive people. The more I looked into them, the more I realised how carefully they were written and saw failed attempts to cover up their tracks. The hadith used to justify the 5 daily prayer for example was written in the presence of Bedouins who did not pray the so called Magrib prayer and was urging the reader not to follow those Bedouins because they called magrib Isha. The person who wrote that hadith did not describe them as Christians, Jews or polytheist. He called them "Bedouins" and avoided calling them Muslims. Another failed attempt is the hadith claiming that the Prophet Muhammad used to combine prayers in order to pray 3 times a day during hard days like when he travelled. Looking to the Quran, you cannot combine prayers. You can only shorten them, so if it takes you 10 minutes to pray, it can be shorten to say 5 minutes.
The so called signs of the day of judgement are false too. The Quran does not speak of Jesus coming back to save the world. This fallacy can be found in almost all religions. Christians are waiting for Jesus to return and save the world, Jews are waiting for new Jesus, Hinduism speak of a Christ like figure coming to save the world from corruption. It is Iblis who is behind these false prophesies and deceives the world using them when he will come here and pretend to be Jesus.
The Quran though does have its own signs for the hour, one being Gog and Magog where the barrier is destroyed and they come into earth and flood it and the trumpet being blown. Difference here is that the prophesies in the Quran is decreed by by God to happen.
Back on topic. I now feel like a new person. I feel as if a huge weight has been removed from my shoulders and the veil has been removed. The first time I uttered the shahada as mentioned in the Quran, that there is no God but God, this time without putting Muhammad next to God was the most amazing feeling.
My first physical prayer without the durood or greeting angels at the end, felt weird, not in a bad way though. It was because I was used to praying the sectarian way. I don't see myself as a Quranist. I don't like such a label. I am a submitter.It's quite difficult living with my parents. Their prayers and call to prayer involves mentioning mortal humans. The amount of shirk that is being committed is crazy but yet they don't even realise it. I can't go to Friday prayer any longer. The call for prayer includes Muhammad, the Imam spends his time quoting from hadith books and the prayers themselves are a complete innovation. The durood is repeated to praise Ibrahim, Muhammad and his household and greet angels at the end. None of that is dedicated to God alone. That is not how you pray to God.
My three daily prayers fits in perfectly in my daily life. I don't need a clock or timetable. I just need to look at the sky and watch for sunset and sunrise.
I see the Quran differently. I see the true meaning of the verses in it. Before I just used to recite it out loud but now I actually understand it. I see the world differently.
Whatever I see, whether it be a tree, a flower, an animal or a human, I automatically remember God. Like a veil being removed. I see Gods design in everything.
I'm also much less arrogant and try my best not to act like a jerk. I praise God for everything, the lord of the worlds.Peace)
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How do you pray exactly then? You said 3 prayers without mentioning the salam to prophets and ahle bait.
What about rest of the stuff ? do you do the rest as sunni does? (rakas, sitting, etc)?Does it mention in Quran, how to pray?
CheersThere is no specific way of praying. Only three positions are mentioned in the Quran, standing, bowing and prostrating. Again, the concept of praying isn't just a physical thing. Allah said that only in the remembrance of Allah shall a soul find peace. Notice how salat/prayer was not used. Salat/prayer as known by many Muslims has been misunderstood. Standing bowing and prostrating 5 times a day won't keep you away from committing indecencies. It is about nourishing your soul by remembering Allah, being grateful to him and not cause corruption or oppression. In other words, it's to gain righteousness/taqwa. That's the whole point of salat/prayer. This can only be achieved with sincerity, knowing who you are, your weaknesses an be able to see yourself in a mirror and recognise your sins. The journey starts from there and that cannot happen if you're slave to your ego and/or a blind follower. Prayer cannot be summarised into one thing. Trees and animals worship God but do you see them doing physical prayers? Obviously not.
For raka. The concept of raka doesn't exist in the Quran. There really is no such thing as raka. It's derived from hadith books which attempt to turn prayer/salat into a ritual where you make robotic movements. The Quran described prayers/salat as ending with a prostration. I don't pray like sunnis. I only mention God using the Quran. Depending on how much time I have, I could pray Isha for over an hour nonstop and sometimes just 20 minutes. Fajr can sometimes take me anywhere between 4 minutes(when I'm really lazy) to 30 minutes. I can pray Wusta any time from when the sun starts to decline to sunset. I don't mention or greet angels or humans during prayer. Remembering Allah doesn't end there. Remembering Allah is a form of worship and should be increased as much as possible.
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Thanks for clarifying brother about the prayers in details. One other question, how does one offer congregational prayer? in that he she would do the 3 acts (stand, bow, prostrate) together with the rest of the folks in a manner which would be in order.
What is your under standing of the Friday prayer call as it is mentioned in Quran specifically, how can people agree on the mechanics of such a congregational prayer in the mosque? was there any historical proof that congregational prayers were being actually offered by the prophet and early muslims?Cheers
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Hello,
Welcome to the forum
Be safe
Amenuel -
Thanks a lot Neptin, Fusion, Man of Faith and Wakas yay
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I don't see myself as a Quranist. I don't like such a label. I am a submitter.
Salaam! Welcome to the forum! Good to know. I too simply refer to myself as a believer (this means that you are free from any background, organized labels i.e. jew, christian, muslim, hindu etc) in the one God, with the Quran being the only law giving revelation today. Anyone who believes in God as sketched by the Quran, is named as muslimeen by God, not the Muslims and their organized sects as understood by the world today though.
2278 And strive in the cause of God its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you muslimeen (meaning ?those who have submitted?) from before and in this. So let the messenger be witness over you and you be witness over the people. So hold/establish the Salat and contribute towards purification and hold tight to God, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter.
It's quite difficult living with my parents.
Remember, God has enjoined kindness to our parents. If they try to turn us away from God, we should not obey them, but that still doesn't open the way to hostility.
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Peace,
Interesting story.
Welcome to the forum )
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The first domino to fall was the hadith claiming that Muhammad married a six year old child and had sex with the child at the age of 9. That I could never accept.
Even amongst sunnis there is controversy and difference of opinion of how old Aisha was.
welcome to the forum
peace
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We need to ask ourselves that a messenger of God, can he be indulged in such act? That is part of our Faith.
In Quran it is not mentioned about the age and no indirect reference, but then many many things not mentioned in Quran.
Are we not going to use our logical mind and god gifted wisdom on this particular subject.There is one point that I wanna make which is related to historical facts. My grandmother told me that her mom got married when she was 13 years old and this was normal age in the villages then. I did not believe but then she would not lie to me.
Cheers
Even amongst sunnis there is controversy and difference of opinion of how old Aisha was.
welcome to the forum
peace
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MARRIAGEABLE AGE
The beginning of the physiological cycles in a girl and nocturnal emissions in a boy are commonly believed to be their age of marriage. To the unfortunate Mullah, everything revolves around sex. A Hadith of Bukhari atrociously tells us that a girl can have Nikah (the marital contract) at 6 and the marriage can be consummated at age 9 since the exalted Prophet did that with Hazrat Ayesha! Is there any wonder that the West call him a child-molester? Why don't then the Sunnah-peddlers "marry off" their daughters at 6 and 9? Many countries set an arbitrary 16 years for the girl and 18 years for the boy. The Divine Wisdom enshrined in the Qur?an makes things so sensible. It sets up three rational criteria that take into account physical as well as mental maturity of the would-be bride and groom. The exalted Prophet did not violate the Glorious Book once in his life.
The Criteria
1 -Sufficient maturity to grant consent.
2 - Ability to sign a solemn, legal contract.
3 - Competence to take care of one's own finances.
419 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! It is not lawful for you to force women into marrying or holding on to them in marriage against their will. ---.
55 This Day, all good things of your choice are made lawful for you. ?. And so are the virtuous, chaste women of the believers and the virtuous, chaste women ?..
421 And how could you take the marital gift back from her after you have lived intimately with each other and after she has taken from you a very Solemn Pledge of the marital contract? (Meethaqan Ghaleeza).
46 Train and educate the orphans well and test them. When they reach the age of marriage and attain sound judgment, release their property to them. The marriageable age shall mean attainment of physical and mental maturity when one can express free consent and legally make a solemn contract (421). ----.Shabbir Ahmed, M.D.
www.ourbeacon.com -
http//www.hindustantimes.com/editorial-views-on/ColumnsOthers/Hazrat-Aisha-was-19-not-9/Article1-408894.aspx
Hazrat Aisha was 19, not 9
A Faizur Rahman May 09, 2009About a month ago the world media reported a shocking decision by a Saudi judge in which he refused to annul the marriage of an 8-year old girl to a 47-year old man. But to those who are already familiar with the so-called Islamic laws of Saudi Arabia, this ruling was merely the latest in the sequence of several such cases of human rights abuse in the name of the shariah. The question is does Islamic law really uphold child marriage?
What the Quran says
A perusal of the Quran will reveal that marriage in Islam is a civil contract, meesaaq (421), and as such it can be finalised only between persons who are intellectually and physically mature enough to understand and fulfill the responsibilities of such a contract. This can be further understood from the verse; ?And test the orphans until they reach the age of nikah (marriage), and if you find in them rushdh (maturity of intellect) release their property to them.?(46). It may be noted here that the Quran makes intellectual maturity (which always falls beyond the age of puberty) the basis to arrive at the age of marriage. This is also in conformity with the Quranic description of marriage as emotional bonding between two mutually compatible persons through which they seek ?to dwell in tranquility? (see 7189 and 3021) in the companionship of each other which is not possible if either of the spouses is mentally undeveloped.
But, even in India?
Unfortunately, Muslim jurists don?t seem to have understood these Quranic teachings. Recently the grand mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Sheikh, issued a fatwa legitimising the marriage of girls as young as 10. Even in India, Muslim institutions including the Deoband and the All India Muslim Personal Law Board have not outlawed child marriage. Yet they congregated not once but twice to condemn terrorism. It is astonishing that those who claim an Islamic basis for their shariah disregard the primary source of Islamic law, the Quran, to the extent of overruling it through their exploitation of spurious traditions. For instance, child marriage in Islam is justified on the basis of a hadith in Bukhari, which says that the Prophet married Hazrat Aisha when she was just six and consummated the marriage when she was nine.
Hazrat Aisha?s ageThis hadith cannot be true for several reasons. First, the Prophet could not have gone against the Quran to marry a physically and intellectually immature child. Secondly, the age of Hazrat Aisha can be easily calculated from the age of her elder sister Hazrat Asma who was 10 years older than Hazrat Aisha. Waliuddin Muhammad Abdullah Al-Khateeb al Amri Tabrizi the famous author of Mishkath, in his biography of narrators (Asma ur Rijal), writes that Hazrat Asma died in the year 73 Hijri at the age of 100, ten or twelve days after the martyrdom of her son Abdullah Ibn Zubair. It is common knowledge that the Islamic calendar starts from the year of the Hijrah or the Prophet?s migration from Mecca to Medina.
Therefore, by deducting 73, the year of Hazrat Asma?s death, from 100, her age at that time, we can easily conclude that she was 27 years old during Hijra.
This puts the age of Hazrat Aisha at 17 during the same period. As all biographers of the Prophet agree that he consummated his marriage with Hazrat Aisha in the year 2 Hijri it can be conclusively said that she was 19 at that time and not nine as alleged in the aforementioned hadiths.
The Saudi judge also abused another hadith when he ruled that the minor girl shall have the right to seek a divorce only after reaching puberty. This is known as Khiyar-al-Buloogh or the Option of Puberty and is based on Ibn Abbas?s report in the collection of Abu Dawood. According to that, the Prophet is supposed to have given a minor girl the option to repudiate her marriage when she informed him that her father had married her off against her will.
False premise
But a reading of this hadith shows that the girl in question was not a minor because the word used to describe her is bikran, which means a grown-up, unmarried girl. Also, there is no mention of puberty in the report. Therefore, the concept of Khiyar-al Buloogh is bad in law as it is based on a false premise. In short, there is no authentic statement of the Prophet justifying child marriage and hence, the question of his advising any minor to wait until puberty to exercise her right to divorce simply does not arise.The spirit of the Quran
The problem with the present day Islamic law is that most of it is not based on the spirit of the Quran. This is because of the belief of Muslim theologians (particularly the Salafi ideologues, commonly known as the Wahabis) that hadiths have an overriding effect on the Quran. One such preacher Abu Ammar Yasir Qadhi has the temerity to write in his book, An Introduction to the Sciences of the Quran, that the Sunnah of the prophet can abrogate the Quran.The truth is that the Quran being the locus classicus of Islam, no authority can supersede it. Even the Prophet was commanded to judge by it (4105, 549, 650, and 7203). Furthermore, as the Quran claims to be a guide for all periods, it supports the notion that any law formulated on the basis of its framework has to evolve from time to time.
For this to happen, the doors of ijthihad (independent interpretation) must be reopened and the entire corpus of hadiths must be re-evaluated, to discredit such hadiths that are antithetical to the spirit of justice, equity and fairness embodied in Quranic universalism.
The author is a Chennai-based peace activist.
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Salaam! Welcome to the forum! Good to know. I too simply refer to myself as a believer (this means that you are free from any background, organized labels i.e. jew, christian, muslim, hindu etc) in the one God, with the Quran being the only law giving revelation today. Anyone who believes in God as sketched by the Quran, is named as muslimeen by God, not the Muslims and their organized sects as understood by the world today though.
Remember, God has enjoined kindness to our parents. If they try to turn us away from God, we should not obey them, but that still doesn't open the way to hostility.
I'm not hostile towards them, it's just that they push their sectarian and pagan beliefs on me. It's difficult living like a hypocrite. I can't be who I am. I always have to pretend. The corruption of organised religion becomes more and more apparent by the day. The signs(ayah) that God revealed in the Quran has been hijacked by sectarians(organised religion). The Quran is a mercy from God to humankind but a sect has put a claim to it. Not just the Quran but also the word Islam and muslim.
I dislike organised religion(sectarianism) but the sect of Islam takes the cake for its hypocrisy and kufr. They claim to follow the Quran but in the same time claim that it's not enough for them so they resort to their man-made collection of lies(hadith books). These hadith books abrogate the Quran. The Quran isn't divine or exclusive any longer. In the Quran ,when God says that there is no compulsion in his path , Bukhari & Co orders you to kill non-Muslim and apostates. Obviously in their so called sharia law, the books Bukhari & Co wrote overrides the command of God. It's either their way or its death.Have you noticed that these sectarians only use the Quran as bait to lure people into their religion? They never bring up hadith books when making "dawah". It is only once they've got the convert in, the Quran is thrown away and hadith books are used for brainwashing.
This sect has hijacked the Quran and is attempting to push people away from the mercy(the Quran) and the path to God. They have put a claim to it while following man-made books instead. Kufr and hypocrisy at its finest.
Does history repeat itself?
The Jews, hundreds of years after Moses's death created Mishnah (hadith, sayings) and Gemarrah (sunna, Actions) and upheld them and the invented laws in them rather than the TORAH (revealed word of God).
In the city of Nicene 300 years after the death of Jesus, the concept of Trinity was created, and is now the primary source of a Christian's belief in defiance of the Bible which advocates the absolute worship of God Alone.
The Muslims 150- 200 years after the death of Muhammed created another source of their religion with the Quran, "Hadith and Sunnah", falsely attributed to the prophet Muhammed, and in defiance of the Quran. Today most Muslims have discarded the Quran in favor of Hadith and Sunnah.
The same thing is happening today. This is the true nature of organised religion(sectarianism), to hijack the word of God, invent their own books with it and cover the truth up. They would long ago have modified the Quran but they cannot. God is protecting the Quran. It is only by the Guidance of Allah that someone can go through this pile of mess and find the treasure(Quran) and the path to God. Thanks to the religion of Islam, more and more people become atheists or follow another organised religion. They have the truth from their lord right in-front of them and recite it everyday but don't seem to understand it. Deaf, dumb and blind they are. They have thrown their brains out the window and blindly chosen to follow what they found their parents and forefathers to be doing and they will regret it one day. "And they shall say O our Lord! surely we obeyed our leaders and our great men, so they led us astray from the path;"
"And when it is said to them, "Follow what Allah has revealed," they say, "Rather, we will follow that which we found our fathers doing." Even though their fathers understood nothing, nor were they guided?"
"We have created for Gehenna many jinn and men they have hearts, but understand not with them; they have eyes, but perceive not with them; they have ears, but they hear not with them. They are like cattle; nay, rather they are further astray. Those -- they are the heedless."
"They are deaf, dumb, and blind, so they return not."
And they will say "Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we would not have been among the dwellers of the blazing Fire!"
I may sound a bit too harsh and arrogant but I assure I'm far from that. I always invite people to the path of God(monotheism) and the Quran in an extremely polite manner. When I get threats and get called kaffir, I wish them peace. It's time to call a spade a spade though, the truth is cold and harsh to these sectarians.
May God guide us, increase us in knowledge and protect us and bring more people to the truth. -
Thanks for clarifying brother about the prayers in details. One other question, how does one offer congregational prayer? in that he she would do the 3 acts (stand, bow, prostrate) together with the rest of the folks in a manner which would be in order.
What is your under standing of the Friday prayer call as it is mentioned in Quran specifically, how can people agree on the mechanics of such a congregational prayer in the mosque? was there any historical proof that congregational prayers were being actually offered by the prophet and early muslims?Cheers
The Friday prayer is a difficult one. I just recently started to do some research on it. What I understand for now is that it's a gathering for the remembrance of God.
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Hi,
I was always liked english dialect, it look like a knight. Once I had coleaouge from england. Unfortunately from youtube I only knew americant dialect, and he used to call me from skype whch I dont understand. But after a year I get used to it.
;D
)
