No God Exists: Why Should I Be Good to humans?
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Peace Fusion,
sadly the translations of the Qur'an at present are very corrupted through hadith based interpretations and definitions of the ancient arabic texts, the Bible is a work of fiction as is the old testament, these works have been used to corrupt islam further.
if you murder and you have a soul it?s shattered in separation, because it?s as if you?d murdered all souls and stand upon their corpses in silent isolation, murder binds all souls against you; it?s as if they were the soul you murdered because it is. We are a single soul fractured into infinity, this is why it?s equal to the murder of all souls. Conversely if you save a soul from imminent death, it?s as if you?ve save all souls, because it?s infinitely greater than to have merely saved your own life.?
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Yes I also agree on the no intervention in the system hence I mentioned it was Pervez exposition of Quran reference. I posted the translation to make a point that the Dream of Ibrahim should not be taken as command of God in order to sacrifice his son.
sadly the translations of the Qur'an at present are very corrupted through hadith based interpretations and definitions of the ancient arabic texts, the Bible is a work of fiction as is the old testament, these works have been used to corrupt islam further.
I agree with both of you. If something looks fishy question it. I used to believe in that traditional translation of khidr killing the child. But after getting a bit of knowledge about what God is through Quran I started questioning that story. It certainly is translation gone wild! But I haven't looked into it deeply just yet.
Back to main topic of this thread, I am still looking for ways an atheist world can extract/maintain morals.
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Well it certainly isn't through religion Reel, religions are morally corrupt, they strip away the perception of personal responsibility, and fill the mind with fantasy and form a delusional mask upon the nature of the self.
The none religious fare far better in moral conduct.
The religious claim a theology of morality, but instead of axioms they create dogma, instead of equitable conduct they create granted rights and privilege, dependent on their imagined divine grant, they go from the inherent based in reason, to the authored based in constructs of authority, then once they have the power upon the minds of the defenceless, the extremes of immorality are indulged, the powerful are held above account and inequity is firmly established.
Morals are an expression of your disposition through your manners of conduct, therefore a soul must always aim above morality; to be dispassionately moral is self-deception, simply a moral theorist; be virtuous for something, as morals are transitory; they only exist in expression.
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Well it certainly isn't through religion Reel, religions are morally corrupt, they strip away the perception of personal responsibility, and fill the mind with fantasy and form a delusional mask upon the nature of the self.
Unfortunately, sacred books help the admins understand and apply ethics in laws. I am in PUAD. Philosophers will of course try to hide it by saying we gain morals from culture. But that thing is heavily dependent on collective thoughts.
The none religious fare far better in moral conduct.
They aren't atheist though. It would also be wrong to think that all atheists of today are immoral.
The religious claim a theology of morality, but instead of axioms they create dogma, instead of equitable conduct they create granted rights and privilege, dependent on their imagined divine grant, they go from the inherent based in reason, to the authored based in constructs of authority, then once they have the power upon the minds of the defenceless, the extremes of immorality are indulged, the powerful are held above account and inequity is firmly established.
The problem with the leaders of religions is that they are uneducated. Governing is not a piece of cake nope In secular society, they can be kept in check. But I believe same should be done with secular leaders because they are the ones running the country/state. Humans, majority of the time, lead the life of a sheeple. They are lazy. They want to be fed all the information. They hate to think. They will parrot what they hear from some celebrity intellectual without doing fact checking, but have big ego. This is an inherent problem in both atheists and religious people. lol, Yet I do feel that it would be much easier to control people in atheist world. Rationality is the key to creating morals. Trust is something that will suffer greatly. Currently, it looks like even atheists don't trust each other.
http//www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/04/16/new-study-shows-that-even-atheists-think-atheists-are-immoral/
That can be a great excuse to have them chipped, searched,controlled and killed. -\Verses from atheist Prophet Dawkins
http//ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/77077000/png/_77077073_capture2.pngReferring to his early days at a boarding school in Salisbury, he recalled how one of the (unnamed) masters ?pulled me on his knee and put his hand inside my shorts.?
He said other children in his school peer group had been molested by the same teacher but concluded ?I don?t think he did any of us lasting harm.?
?I am very conscious that you can?t condemn people of an earlier era by the standards of ours. Just as we don?t look back at the 18th and 19th centuries and condemn people for racism in the same way as we would condemn a modern person for racism, I look back a few decades to my childhood and see things like caning, like mild pedophilia, and can?t find it in me to condemn it by the same standards as I or anyone would today,? he said.
He said the most notorious cases of pedophilia involve rape and even murder and should not be bracketed with what he called ?just mild touching up
http//www.thewire.com/global/2013/09/richard-dawkins-defends-mild-pedophilia-again-and-again/69269/ -
Law is not Islamic, law is constructive.
Hierarchy in all forms is against Islam, hierarchy is the tree of death, so no goverment, State, corporation, trust or any other fiction of hierarchy is valid.
Richard dawkins is a psychopath at best, clearly he's an idiot due to his constant use of logical fallacies. Morals are innate in empathic beings, immorality is learned, it is the reverse of what is commonly claimed.
The innate morals are known as virtues, each loving soul is created with these virtues, which forms innocence, but chooses to reject or suppress their true nature as they grow older for whatever reason.
What are the innate virtues?Virtues are easy to recognise they are external expressions of an internal reality.
'Integrity? is being true to one?s self, and is the basis of all innate virtue, meaning you must be honest in all your dealings always striving for equity, as it is reciprocal, if a reasoning soul would find it innately distressing then it?s by virtue a wrongful act. When integrity is central, you fear nothing, since you have nothing to hide. When integrity is dominant you act impartially, candidly and scrupulously in all things, so you will have no guilt. When fear and guilt do not exist within your decisions you are free to act in excellence. This creates authenticity, which secures acting autonomously as the architect of your own actions.
?Discipline? is an innate virtue, meaning you must learn devotion and steadfastness in your development of skills and knowledge, in the improvement of the self always beneficially towards the evolving of a higher state of thought, in the creation of beauty, in the dedication to an objective, or the edification of other souls.
?Hospitality? is an innate virtue, all souls are connected, the most enduring aspect of this common unity is interaction between souls, expressed through kindness, generosity, openness towards other souls, treating other souls as you yourself would wish to be treated, articulated through polite reciprocation.
?Self-reliance? is an innate virtue, meaning a soul is a non-conformist, independent in thought and deed, generating autonomy of the self, which is integral to free will, and self-reliance is the expression of free will.
?Industriousness? is an innate virtue, time is precious, do not sell your moments for the economics of a slave, never sacrifice your energies in idol folly, instead invest them in your passions, in your great loves, in those thoughts that drive the soul to excel and build landscapes and truths of undreamt of imagination.
?Perseverance? is an innate virtue, because difficult and challenging things take a long time, and defeat is always eager to be accepted; impossible things are accomplished through persistence in a course of action, a purpose, in spite of difficulties, obstacles, or discouragement.
?Respect? is innate by virtue of reciprocation, so to act cruelly, thoughtlessly, hatefully, are wrongful act, and to act courteously, and with concern is a reciprocal obligation.
?Courage? is innate, you were not created to hide and cower, life is risky, but fear destroys evolution and manifests stagnation, courage flows from truth, which is fearless, and from love, which has no souled resistor.
?Honour? is innate; it is the virtue of constructive self-judgement as a method of self-betterment; honour then is the perception others determine from such actions.
?Compassion? is innate, compassion is not found in dispassionate inaction, it must be actively sort, a soul must actively seek out acts of compassion, this is an expression of the unity of consciousness; all souls are connected. Compassion encompasses many elements, forgiveness, empathy, generosity, sympathy, kindness, consideration, and love; through the expression of these innate emotions the connection of unity is conveyed as a manifestation of compassion.
?Sincere honesty? is innate, the brutal honesty of a child, when you say you will do a thing you must fulfil your self-imposed obligation as a virtue of reciprocation, as a promise must be kept.
?Loyalty and accountability? are innate, a soul is always fully responsible for what they do, and must provide relief for all the adverse consequences their intentional acts create. Souls are communal and the bonds of friendship must be tied with fierce loyalty.
No one abandons virtues all at once, conversely evil does not arise all at once; these things develop through small increases. To again master virtues it would be a gradual resolve.
If a soul masters all the innate virtues, if they speak boldly and with understanding in reasoned discourse. If they never quiet their voice for someone's comfort. If they always speak their mind, even when that make others uncomfortable. Making the majority consider them antisocial, even belligerent, considered a very disagreeableness soul indeed, they would be truly honest to a point it would be considered a fault by the deceitful, ironically that is because a soul living so virtuously is expressing common unity, as 'pro-social' behaviour. There is an Arabic term ?Ummah? which means common unity of birth, each soul is united at birth with all souls, the division comes later, and I see no common unity on the Earth at present, as taught from the unity of any child.
It is the uncompromising willingness to sacrifice one's popularity to act in a moral and just way toward other souls, animals or the environment at large; that makes a soul virtuous.
For this reason a very popular, friend to all, reveals a social narcissist, one who derives gratification from the approval of those around them through their own desire for perceived status, this cultivates immoral actions and environments, and is a trait of the soulless.
The soulless work to remove the innate virtues of souls, they strip away hope from the heart, dreams from the mind, and instil fear in place of love.
You may argue these virtues are learned not innate.
A soul is created perfect in virtue, with moral integrity, but that inherent nature is easily corrupted, a small child in their own way is truthful, loyal, compassionate, honourable, fearless, respectful, determined, diligent, autonomous, hospitable, and systematic by their nature, that blank canvas of virtue is open and unprotected, every abuse, every instilled confusion, every hate, every lie, every superstition painted upon that canvas conceals the inherent and develops the fabricated.
Is innate the same as instinct?
The innate exists in you from birth, originating in or arising from the intellect or the constitution of the mind, rather than learned through experience, while instinct is a natural intuitive power. Both are possessed; instinct is a base state, so creates a compulsion toward certain behaviour like fight or flight, satisfying hunger, lust, thirst; etcetera. While the innate is a higher state, which creates an inclination towards certain higher behaviours, such as virtues or being moral. So all instinct is innate but not all that is innate is instinct.
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Peace reel,
I think everyone is missing the point. CMIIW but you asked for objective scientific proof and not just subjective views or beliefs. What is the scientific proof that an "inner software or morality of right vs wrong" exists? Why can't it just be conditioning after birth by parents, peers, teachers etc. rather than a "built in software"? The proponents of service to self (materialism, selfishness, hierarchical structure of society) can easily scientifically argue that their path is superior to the path of service to others (good deeds). In the end, without an objective "scientific" proof, it is just a subjective argument.
Only once you see/experience the reality of existence yourself with your own "eyes" "scientifically", can you realize that the service to others path is superior to service to self path.
The only objective way I can suggest for you to verify this, other than death, is by learning and practicing astral projection or OOB experience. This way you can consciously experience/see while still being alive what you will experience/see after death. You will see the reality of all existence beyond this temporary illusion and only then you will realize why service to others path is superior, once you know the true nature of all existence. Why don't you try it? You have nothing to lose )
Evidence of astral projection from al-quran for the believers?
3942 Allah seizes the souls at the time of their death; and for those that have not died, during their sleep. He then keeps those that have been overtaken by death, and he sends the others back until a predetermined time. In that are signs for a people who will think.
Everyone astral projects every single night when they sleep! Anyone can also learn how to do it while fully conscious and not sleeping. This is "scientific", replicable and verifiable by anyone. So whatcha gonna do? Swallow the red pill or the blue pill? )
Peace
I can astral project without any problems. I first discovered this as a child(between 10 and 13) but it wasn't the usual astral projection like when lying down on your back, sleeping and imagining a rope and then pulling yourself up. It happened while sitting on a sofa. I looked around and saw myself inside myself(the physical me). This sounds weird and difficult to explain. It's a bit similar to astral projection but is very different. How different? I have no words to explain it. It was as if I had another pair of eyes I was using to look through my physical eyes. This did not happen once but several times.I can do this by command at any time, even while walking. At the time I had no idea what it was.
I Googled it but only found astral projection. So I went ahead and tried that and it worked on the first attempt. This is the closest example I could find to what I experience. Between the age of 14 and 19, that feeling went away but recently came when I became a Quran only monotheist. The feeling also goes away at moments when I become attached to material objects, worldly things, use profanity or treat people bad.
Just wondering if anyone has this sort of experience(I call it experience because I don't know what to call it).
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Law is not Islamic, law is constructive.
Law depends upon rationality, but must take ethics into account to make sure ?not many? are hurt. Sorry I said that hurt word. Truth is that law sometimes creates winners and losers. Hence, focus on ethics is important.
Hierarchy in all forms is against Islam, hierarchy is the tree of death, so no goverment, State, corporation, trust or any other fiction of hierarchy is valid.
Sure we have no caste system, but I don?t exactly think Islam objects to hierarchy. But again, it is a natural process. We don?t have control over it. We are told to not abuse the hierarchy. Quran has plenty of verses about it.
Richard dawkins is a psychopath at best, clearly he's an idiot due to his constant use of logical fallacies.
I truly enjoyed the logical fallacies, lies about Deists, fill in the blanks concepts about Einstein and much more found in his Best Seller God delusion. A company can actually run a marketing research using the reviews of his book on Amazon to learn how many delusion infused people will buy their future snake oil. Hint Those who gave 5 to 3 stars.
Morals are innate in empathic beings, immorality is learned, it is the reverse of what is commonly claimed.
But one has to explain what is moral. Not every being is empathetic.
The innate morals are known as virtues, each loving soul is created with these virtues, which forms innocence, but chooses to reject or suppress their true nature as they grow older for whatever reason.
What are the innate virtues?Virtues are easy to recognise they are external expressions of an internal reality.
It is pretty much caught by studies that we are born with belief in God. Probably, that explains the early innocence? Atheism is based on subsequent reasoning done within the mind. We are not naturally wired to atheism. But when it comes to moral studies, will adults take the young people seriously? The problem is in adulthood which kind of tell us that we are in a rat race.
'Integrity? is being true to one?s self, and is the basis of all innate virtue, meaning you must be honest in all your dealings always striving for equity, as it is reciprocal, if a reasoning soul would find it innately distressing then it?s by virtue a wrongful act. When integrity is central, you fear nothing, since you have nothing to hide. When integrity is dominant you act impartially, candidly and scrupulously in all things, so you will have no guilt. When fear and guilt do not exist within your decisions you are free to act in excellence. This creates authenticity, which secures acting autonomously as the architect of your own actions.
?Discipline? is an innate virtue, meaning you must learn devotion and steadfastness in your development of skills and knowledge, in the improvement of the self always beneficially towards the evolving of a higher state of thought, in the creation of beauty, in the dedication to an objective, or the edification of other souls.
?Hospitality? is an innate virtue, all souls are connected, the most enduring aspect of this common unity is interaction between souls, expressed through kindness, generosity, openness towards other souls, treating other souls as you yourself would wish to be treated, articulated through polite reciprocation.
?Self-reliance? is an innate virtue, meaning a soul is a non-conformist, independent in thought and deed, generating autonomy of the self, which is integral to free will, and self-reliance is the expression of free will.
?Industriousness? is an innate virtue, time is precious, do not sell your moments for the economics of a slave, never sacrifice your energies in idol folly, instead invest them in your passions, in your great loves, in those thoughts that drive the soul to excel and build landscapes and truths of undreamt of imagination.
?Perseverance? is an innate virtue, because difficult and challenging things take a long time, and defeat is always eager to be accepted; impossible things are accomplished through persistence in a course of action, a purpose, in spite of difficulties, obstacles, or discouragement.
?Respect? is innate by virtue of reciprocation, so to act cruelly, thoughtlessly, hatefully, are wrongful act, and to act courteously, and with concern is a reciprocal obligation.
?Courage? is innate, you were not created to hide and cower, life is risky, but fear destroys evolution and manifests stagnation, courage flows from truth, which is fearless, and from love, which has no souled resistor.
?Honour? is innate; it is the virtue of constructive self-judgement as a method of self-betterment; honour then is the perception others determine from such actions.
?Compassion? is innate, compassion is not found in dispassionate inaction, it must be actively sort, a soul must actively seek out acts of compassion, this is an expression of the unity of consciousness; all souls are connected. Compassion encompasses many elements, forgiveness, empathy, generosity, sympathy, kindness, consideration, and love; through the expression of these innate emotions the connection of unity is conveyed as a manifestation of compassion.
?Sincere honesty? is innate, the brutal honesty of a child, when you say you will do a thing you must fulfil your self-imposed obligation as a virtue of reciprocation, as a promise must be kept.
?Loyalty and accountability? are innate, a soul is always fully responsible for what they do, and must provide relief for all the adverse consequences their intentional acts create. Souls are communal and the bonds of friendship must be tied with fierce loyalty.
No one abandons virtues all at once, conversely evil does not arise all at once; these things develop through small increases. To again master virtues it would be a gradual resolve.
If a soul masters all the innate virtues, if they speak boldly and with understanding in reasoned discourse. If they never quiet their voice for someone's comfort. If they always speak their mind, even when that make others uncomfortable. Making the majority consider them antisocial, even belligerent, considered a very disagreeableness soul indeed, they would be truly honest to a point it would be considered a fault by the deceitful, ironically that is because a soul living so virtuously is expressing common unity, as 'pro-social' behaviour. There is an Arabic term ?Ummah? which means common unity of birth, each soul is united at birth with all souls, the division comes later, and I see no common unity on the Earth at present, as taught from the unity of any child.
It is the uncompromising willingness to sacrifice one's popularity to act in a moral and just way toward other souls, animals or the environment at large; that makes a soul virtuous.
For this reason a very popular, friend to all, reveals a social narcissist, one who derives gratification from the approval of those around them through their own desire for perceived status, this cultivates immoral actions and environments, and is a trait of the soulless.
The soulless work to remove the innate virtues of souls, they strip away hope from the heart, dreams from the mind, and instil fear in place of love.
You may argue these virtues are learned not innate.
A soul is created perfect in virtue, with moral integrity, but that inherent nature is easily corrupted, a small child in their own way is truthful, loyal, compassionate, honourable, fearless, respectful, determined, diligent, autonomous, hospitable, and systematic by their nature, that blank canvas of virtue is open and unprotected, every abuse, every instilled confusion, every hate, every lie, every superstition painted upon that canvas conceals the inherent and develops the fabricated.
Is innate the same as instinct?
The innate exists in you from birth, originating in or arising from the intellect or the constitution of the mind, rather than learned through experience, while instinct is a natural intuitive power. Both are possessed; instinct is a base state, so creates a compulsion toward certain behaviour like fight or flight, satisfying hunger, lust, thirst; etcetera. While the innate is a higher state, which creates an inclination towards certain higher behaviours, such as virtues or being moral. So all instinct is innate but not all that is innate is instinct. .
At the end, the opinions of the majority win no matter how wrong they are. That?s the sad truth about the world. Worse is the fact that people ignore the destruction caused by the big fish. They continue to support the unethical behavior. Just think how that would look in atheist world. Currently what we know
Two bombs dropped in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The world forgave us because we rebuilt Japan. But the victims and their kids still today suffer from the effects of those two bombs.
We did war in Iraq "mistakenly". The world forgave us because we helped them rebuild by making our own bank accounts empty. Yes, when Iraq was enjoying the finest economy Americans were getting laid off and some even had to sell whatever they had in the house for food. But now even Americans forgave that.
Drones are killing innocent people in Pakistan and couple of days ago, one doctors without border hospital was bombed in Afghanistan. Israel asked for 50 percent increase in aid money for their defense.Even though the world hasn't killed God things are this bad.
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I think people should not involve God and put blame on God for the idiocy in the World. It is a test and obviously those who do not wake up get to live in a World without God in their delusion. God steps forward when you manage to "separate the Spirit from the Flesh" as was stated once by one wise man and God is "who is like Him", and the Persians say Khoda (self is) about God for a reason just as Arabs say "who is like Him" without even knowing what it is they pronounce by the word allah. By the way, many Persians do not know that Khoda in the word refers to Khod which means self (you say khodam if you speak about yourself).
Be safe
Amenuel -
Interesting topic. I've been thinking about this kind of thing for a while. Might be all over the place so bear with me.
Let's forget 'God' for a moment. I think it's a name (common or proper) that has been put a lot of value on and has been put a lot of connotation to. So many attribute so much to God and yet the quran repeats 'are you saying about God what you do not know?'. It is obviously something we cannot know. Moses couldn't 'face' God (7143). It would be arrogant to think that any of us could. What he or she or it 'is' is something we cannot know and honestly it's irrelevant. Might be there is no 'entity' called God. Might be there is an energy (that thing inside of us that instructs us to make the right choice). When I do good I believe in God, it doesn't matter what I profess to say. Anyone can say they believe x,y,z.
Let's say that God doesn't exist and not in the way we perceive. Because I personally don't believe in an involving God that instructs men to act a certain way. I don't believe in a God that sits at a computer and event x or y happens. I don't think God has anything to do with the affairs of the world. God is a guide, the beacon of light, an energy we can all tap into. The initial source of all energy.
Whilst morality is subjective, yes. But I think most of us know that murder is wrong, lying and cheating is wrong and so on. You could say morality is taught perhaps, but empathy is ingrained in most of us. Of course, the self, selfishness, the ego gets in the way of it.
Anyway, back to the exercise. Humans are groupthinkers, first and foremost and they always need someone to tell them what to do. Let's look at the world. The populace follow their leaders (their Gods as it were) because most people are incapable of thinking on their own. The leaders use religion as a tool to fulfill their agenda, because that's what the people follow. There will always be a "God". There will always be war, violence, chaos. If God didn't exist, does it stop? No; man is a beast and obsessed with ego and conquering 'my land is better than your land', 'I need better weapons than your weapons'. If you eliminate religion or God, I don't think you stop this mentality from happening. Atheists feel oppressed and attack the religionists. Religionists feel attacked and attack atheists. How does believing in a God or no-God stop blood from being shed? Ego conquers all. Would people stop building bombs and fighting even if there was no God? hardly and that's rather naive to think so. The controllers, forces of nature (or angels if you prefer) prophecize this nature of man before man is even created (230).
I personally wish religions and dogmas didn't exist either, but the nature of man can't be helped. I think Atheism itself is a religion. It is not 'rational' to say that everything came from nothing. Science is not about conclusions. There are no 'answers' in science. That's dogma. Saying God doesn't exist definitely is illogical and unscientific, not to mention arrogant.
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Grazie...sums up what I think as well.
The time you spent in the corner thinking...helped
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the Persians say Khoda (self is) about God for a reason just as Arabs say "who is like Him" without even knowing what it is they pronounce by the word allah. By the way, many Persians do not know that Khoda in the word refers to Khod which means self (you say khodam if you speak about yourself).I beg your pardon...but you don't know what you're talking about. Khod and Khuda are not the same.
Khod in Faarsi ...
Khodam in Faarsi ...
Khuda in Faarsi ...
The word you are referring to by "Khoda" i.e. is a Kurdish word, and in Kurdish, this translates to "God" as well, but just pointing it out here.
Coming back to Farsi...
The two words Khuda and Khod may sound similar, but there is a subtle difference in pronounciation and they both have different meanings.
NOTE Khuda is spelled differently from both Khod and Khodam where Khod and Khodam share as you can see.
Khod = self
Khodam = Myself / I
Khuda = God / My God / Lord / My Lord
Khuda may have evolved from the ancient Farsi word "xvatay" or "xvatadh" which refers to a Lord / defined itself / self-sustaining / self regulating / independent / not created by an external creator.
Note Formerly Khuda may have been used both to refer to a non-divine lord/king/sovereign as well as the divine supreme sovereign.
Incidentally, Urdu has both as loan words (khod and khuda) taken from Farsi, spelled exactly the same way, pronounced exactly the same, and exactly the same in meaning as well.
And the Almighty, the All-Knower, Wise knows best.
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AW,
Sadly for you I have insight into Persian. I know it is from "the self" with the same word that you use for saying their version of God. That has to do with the same reason you say Allah in Arabic, i.e. "you are it". My wife is Persian, and I have insight through people very professional in the language.
The root of either word is . The other obviously uses the same root.
as a root does indeed refer to self, just different word forms.
Your suggested spelling of Khoda is not the original spelling but an Arabization by erroneous conversion into Persian with Arabic letters. There is a lot of spellings which have been perverted from how you used the language centuries ago.
Be safe
Emanuel -
For example the case of Khidir where he killed a boy citing reason that he would have become an evil person and cause issues for his parents.
The boy was not killed. The wise man merely bit the boy's head off.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606834.msg358801#msg358801
(Abraham taking the dream to be
the Almighty's command, prepared to
slaughter his son.)http//www.drshabbir.com/library/QXPdesktop.html#37101
So We gave him the good news of a clement son (Ishmael).
And when he was old enough to strive along with him, Abraham said, ?O My dear son! I have had a vision that I must give you to a life of test and tribulation for a noble cause (37107). So look, what do you think?? He said, ?O My father! Do what you are commanded. God willing, you will find me of the steadfast.?
As both of them had surrendered themselves (to God), he made Ishmael further submit in gratitude.
We called unto him, ?O Abraham!
You have already affirmed the vision. We ? This is so - We must reward the doers of good.?
This was a trial, clear in itself.
We exchanged his life for a Momentous Sacrifice.
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In response to Reel. Few know what law is, and I fear even fewer grasp hierarchy, hence the delusion people need a leader, when in reality people need community which is denied through hierarchy.
If a being is not empathic they are psychopathic, so yes not all beings are empathic, but that is to say not all beings have a soul, and on that is a profound truth, the war is between the empathic and the psychopathic, sadly the empathic are oblivious to that reality, so are easy prey. The hierarchical "world" is the manifestation of this war, the psychopathic rule the empathic with cold hatred and contempt, and the empathic for the most part worship what they fear, and fear is the basis of the psychopathic model, the fiction of God or any Deity is constructed to control the empathic and distract them from any truth, as knowledge will set you free, the chains of ignorance must be re-forged and well oiled to prevent such an enlightenment. So the fiction is used to prevent investigation of the truth, so they use the logical fallacy of a God or no creator as a limited choice fallacy to hide the nature of the Creator.
Law is constructive, always, and sharia is substantive , always, of course you must know what the two forms are, if you do not then you do not understand the subject
Constructive verse substantive -- http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/264/317/
I hope you take the time to read the above link explaining the two forms one of law and the other of inherent power.
Hierarchy is the tree of death, this is an ancient truth, while anarchy is the tree of life
The tree of life is rooted deep upon the tree of death, from the compost of past perceptions new life emerges; to the compost all must return.
Each soul is born and must grow in the dark seeking the light, to be denied the light is to suffer death.
The tree is in symmetry, as below so above, its branches spread outward just as its roots, the roots spread in darkness, the branches spread in light.
The tree of death has roots that take from the rotting, they draw from the dead, and the filth, it has no fruits to give, it can only take; while in dichotomy the tree of life has branches that give beauty, drawing in the light; they blossom in the spring, they fruit in the summer, and their leaves fill the autumn with colour; the colour of the branches return to the earth. Just as a soul is born to blossom, to bring forth their fruits of love, labour and imagination, and to fill perception with the colours of their efforts, their wisdom, their experience and their guidance forming a rich compost for souls to be born into.
The tree of death is rooted in the earth, the perception of the hedonistic seeing only the elements of the worldly, in the Hellenistic tradition, the mind of selfish advantage, greed, lust, hatred and envy. The tree of death is a pyramid, drawing from the many to the one, in hierarchical domination, a parasitical force; you must overcome the one who subjugates the body, to reach the tree of life, in the journey through the body.
The tree of life branches out into the light, experiencing the perception of unity with all life, free of hierarchy, the tree of life is the one that draws from the light of the many, within anarchic freedom, holding all souls equal in reciprocation, and accepting full responsibility for all they do and say.
The tree of death is a childish place of costumes and fictions, hierarchies only exist for children, a child lives in subjugation, a child is not fully responsible for all they say and do, and does not reciprocate what they receive.
The tree of life is a place for adults free of costumes and fictions of invented perceptions; anarchy exists only for adults.
Within the tree of death if you eat your own fruits in subjugated, or take the fruits of others as a granted right, you inequitably consume the fruits of the souls around you. Likewise if you eat from the tree of life without the consent of the creator of those fruits, you also consume inequitably the fruits of those around you, and you would quickly descend back into the tree of death.
A free soul can only consume the fruits they themselves create, or the free bounty of nature.
Death is imposed just as hierarchy; all imposed hierarchies exist upon fear, which is a state in perception of perpetual death. Life is a gift, a wonder to behold, that exists in love; all souled life is created from a bilateral union, just as all community. Common unity is always anarchic; always free of hierarchy, always based upon the bond of surety, a bilateral union of two souls. As life is a common unity, a bilateral union that forms life; life must be a bilateral union forming common unity.
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Peace Invalid777,
I can astral project without any problems. I first discovered this as a child(between 10 and 13) but it wasn't the usual astral projection like when lying down on your back, sleeping and imagining a rope and then pulling yourself up. It happened while sitting on a sofa. I looked around and saw myself inside myself(the physical me). This sounds weird and difficult to explain. It's a bit similar to astral projection but is very different. How different? I have no words to explain it. It was as if I had another pair of eyes I was using to look through my physical eyes. This did not happen once but several times.I can do this by command at any time, even while walking. At the time I had no idea what it was.
I Googled it but only found astral projection. So I went ahead and tried that and it worked on the first attempt. This is the closest example I could find to what I experience. Between the age of 14 and 19, that feeling went away but recently came when I became a Quran only monotheist. The feeling also goes away at moments when I become attached to material objects, worldly things, use profanity or treat people bad.
Just wondering if anyone has this sort of experience(I call it experience because I don't know what to call it).
Astral projection can be to anywhere. You can travel to the farthest edge of the universe or you can travel in time to any time in the past or the future in an instant, or you can meet any other spirit/soul/alien/higher density entity you want to and communicate with it, or you can travel inwards and even see things at cellular, molecular, atomic or subatomic level. By astral projection you see the reality of existence/creation from beyond the temporary physical illusion. So what you are experiencing is a form of astral projection.
Next time in that state think about traveling to any part of the world, or another planet in the universe or any time in past or future and with practice you can do it. You will even be able to access the Akashic records (the galactic library or lawh mahfooz) and read any content about anything you wish and thus discover all the secrets and mysteries. This is how "prophecies" or "predictions" are made by spiritually advanced humans or higher density entities.
When you are experiencing this spiritual travel, next time try to look or feel if a "silver" cord(s) is/are attached to your astral body anywhere (usually navel). If you do see or feel it, you are definitely astral projecting no matter where you feel you are.
Astral projection comes very easily to some people (like yourself), and for others it may take a year to learn, but it can be done by anyone with practice and perseverance. Sufis, shamans, mystics, monks etc. and thousands of people all over the world astral project consciously while awake almost every day (as opposed to while sleeping which is done by everyone every single night).
Please see the following videos about astral projection
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZNmwCD1pA
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYPn8pVSmUsPeace
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Peace everyone,
William Buhlman, in this video and the videos I referenced in the above post, was an agnostic and atheist but after he started astral projecting he became a spiritual person. He even mentions Quran in the following video! He has been astral projecting for more than 42 years. He also talks about the silver cord (in his case it comes out of back of neck) and how to astral project. He says that he sees even animals astral projecting during their sleep! Astral projection primer
https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6IDouR9Uvg
His website
http//www.astralinfo.org/
I forgot to mention that in addition to traveling in space and time, you can also travel to other dimensions during astral projection and can visit any dimensional reality you want out of the infinite number of multidimensional realities that exist. For example you will be able to visit "heaven" or "hell" and see what it looks like!
You will see the true reality of all existence with your own "eyes" and go from a state of "belief/trust/faith" to "those given the knowledge". You will understand exactly how and where Muhammad traveled to when he traveled from al-masjid al-haram to al-masjid al-aqsa, when you learn astral projection yourself. You will realize that you are in reality a spiritual being in a temporary physical body illusion, rather than a purely physical being, and that you are in reality connected with all existence.
Peace
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I would like to see a world without God. Don't be surprised. Its just a case study of whether we can control the animals we have within us without religions/deen.
Okay, for a second let's say God doesn't exist. Belief has gone down the drain and all religions are banned. There is nothing called afterlife. There is no reason to believe in anything called karma because just like God it cant be measured in some lab. We can do whatever we like as long as no law is broken! You know in that case, government can punish us. Keeping this in mind and the idea that I am an atheist (just pretending), tell me why should I be good to certain people who provide nothing useful to me?
the specif group of people not useful to me in economic sense
not my teacher or employer
don't provide me any products
can't sell my own products to them
they don't live in my countryLets start from here. Give me rational reasons and moral values for which I should be good to them. Please, do debunk anything you deem illogical here. I am trying to see if a peaceful world without belief in God is possible.
Shalom Aleikhem,
Even though the qualities I will talk about are also present in other creatures to a degree, I'll limit my post to discussions about human beings only.
Unless there is something wrong with your brain, you should have the ability to empathize. You should prefer life over death, health over sickness, pleasure over suffering. The mirror neurons in your brain helps you put yourself in someone else's shoes and understand the consequences of your actions to their lives. We are social creatures after all. Not only us, almost all creatures that evolved under the selection pressure of being in groups possesses the ability to get along by reciprocating.
Do this thought experiment
WARNING, DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE TO BRUTAL AND GORE THINGS
Imagine taking a knife and shoving it into the eye socket of a baby while using a drilling machine to brutalize the anus of the baby.
Did that thought disturb you? Was there a discomfort involved in your head when you were visualizing doing that? Or did it feel just like being asked to read a newspaper? If it felt horrible, then you, like 99.99% of human beings have a built in sense for this. That built in sense is what guides you. It is not perfect but works. If it felt just as normal as reading a newspaper, please see a psychiatrist and a neurosurgeon ASAP!
The biggest defeater to your line of reasoning I believe is this
Conduct a little study. Find out the religious demographic of various countries. Do this for as many countries as possible. Now, do a religious demographic study for the prison population of those same countries. If your line of reasoning is correct, then you should expect to find that the prison populations of all these countries are overwhelmingly disbelievers in God.
Guess what? Your research will surprise you. Atheists do not make up the majority of the inmates in any country's prisons (unless of course that country already has atheists as the majority of their population). This alone should conclusively prove to you that the mere lack of belief in Gods and Goddesses does not tell you ANYTHING about how moral or immoral a person IS.
It's sad that one would even think that. Please do not take offence to what I will say now. It's not personal but merely a remark based on my observation. You make it sound like the only reason you have the will to do good and avoid evil is because someone is looking (in your case Allah). When an atheist buys a poor guy some food, she does it not because someone is looking, but because she genuinely feels for that poor guy. I don't know about you but when an atheist wakes up in the morning and doesn't go around killing and raping everyone, it's not because of what would God think. It is because they aren't a psychopath. If you genuinely felt for others, you wouldn't require the permission of a cosmic deity to do the right thing. I think we all should have enough dignity and self respect to not wait for someone's permission to be good and to avoid bad. I mean, really? I have seen animals share food with other species of animals. I have seen a dog trying to save a freaking fish! And now I have to explain why I, one of the most highly intelligent species on this planet capable of decoding human genome and sending man to moon, should naturally be better at those things than those animals?
Peace
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Its weird that I was directed to this thread when I was posting somewhere else.
So I have deleted the post to take it over there. And people, I didn't get to read all the replies. I will do it very soon. Sometimes I get tempted to respond in other threads. Sorry about it. -
Jack,
I'm not sure that humans are necessarily incapable of thinking for themselves, or that religion has absolutely no effect on our tendency for violence.
Look at what religion teaches - blind faith, conformity, fear of hell, etc. Those are things that can be great motivators for people to commit violence.
I do think a world without religion would be more peaceful. And maybe it's not a coincidence that we are living in the most peaceful time in human history and it is also a time when belief in God and religion are at an all time low.
And religion will continue to lose followers and science replaces it in all aspects of life. And I think humans will continue to become more and more peaceful overall. I say that because our natural tendency is to be good to others. We're designed to show empathy, to self-sacrifice. I think the struggle has been to extend that past our immediate friends and family and apply that to everyone. Religion has been a tool that has worked against it. And our globalized world is now making it easier to connect emotionally with people from all backgrounds, from all over the world.
And this is speculation, but we have practically been artificially selecting ourselves into becoming more domestic, more docile creatures. We have been breeding out our more aggressive, violent traits. And we are reaching the point where we'll be able to pick and choose our genes - and we'll cut out the violent tendencies.
But, having said that, there will always be people who put their self-interest above others. And some of those people will always be in powerful positions. And so we will probably continue to have wars and conflicts over nothing. But it will be less than it is now.
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Very good and accurate description of the humanoid creature. Indeed, without the Ruuh/Spirit, this creature/bashar walking on two legs is no different than an instinct driven beast. It is the God given sense of morality that makes this creature/Bashar, into "The human being" - Al Insaan.
But to address the topic, alright, you'll find that the number of people driven by instinct (this can be good or bad) will increase, but more of the "bad" type. This is because now even for those who would have otherwise been God conscious, would suddenly find themselves indulging in highly selfish behavior, many of which can often be destructive in the long run.
To others why should you give charity to an unknown person? Why should you care to give if someone's dying from thirst on the street and you have a full bottle of water for example? No reason, you're not getting anything in return for helping X, Y, Z.
Being useful or useless are highly relative terms.
To a national army, you and the majority of people are useless, and therefore should be annihilated because we're not helping the army in anyway (unless you join it in some way) and are a burden, for example, - that is rational. Would you now happily accept being eliminated in the name of rationality? This is actually going on in the grand scheme of things the world over, even if it's not bluntly obvious, if you want to see. And it is being done by those uh, "intelligent and rational" people.
A relative dying from cancer in 5 years, is useless to the society because he/she is not going to be productive. What about his/her family? To them those 5 years of company and moments are worth it - making this time "useful".
A no God scenario creates a materialistic, selfish world. Even those athiests you cite who are supposedly being very "moral", are driven by selfishness (i.e. they have instincts that fall into actions/behavior we understand as "good", they derive pleasure from helping people, giving their love and care to people and/or animals and in return they enjoy all these chemical reactions that makes them feel good, like a drug).
There is a universe of difference between morality, enjoyment, struggle, pain for God, and the same things driven by selfish instinct. In the former, you will also find doing things that are against your instinct, but may classify as "good". And you will also find yourself avoiding some things that otherwise resonate with your instincts, even though they may classify as "bad".
With the latter, you only follow your instincts, and the instinct is only focussed on the self with no regards for anything else.
I'm sorry, but that description of human nature is not accurate and really outdated.
Biology, not God (or God has through biology), has given us the ability to be moral and sympathetic and altruistic.The idea that humans only act good because of fear of hell or for the reward of heaven is completely wrong. Normally our actions are not based on such a rational decision.
And the idea that there is some sort of spirit in us urging us to do good is also not founded in fact. There is no evidence of any kind of soul/ruuh/spirit inside us.The fact is, even without god, there are many incentives, rational and instinctive, for us to be good. And for the most part people are good.