Is Qur'an Alone the Last Step Before Leaving Islam Completely?
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Quran alone is just yet another version of Islam religion.
The last step before becoming "unreligious" or "multi religious" (having or identifying oneself to more than one religion) happened once one embrace the full confidence in himself, his own thinking and apply critical thinking towards his own religion, his own thinking and his own belief.
So is being 'multi-religious' how you would describe yourself Jafar?
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Salam,
There are no "steps" to leaving God's system - most of us fall in and out of it for the most part of our lives. We only pray, as the prophets before us did, that we "die as submitters".
As for the arguments and bickering that you may see here...It is human nature to argue even when the knowledge has been attained...
319 The system with God is submission, and those who received the Book did not dispute except after the knowledge came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects the revelations of God, then God is swift in judgment.
What I have come to learn is that the path to God alone is never easy. You lose friends, become isolated, get shunned by family, are ridiculed for going against the majority, etc.. Add to this cocktail the tests that God will send upon you to test your conviction - and that is when people leave or break or simply revert back to their old ways.
292 Did the people think that they will be left to say "We believe" without being put to the test?
293 We had tested those before them, so that God would distinguish those who are truthful and so that He would know the liars.May we all have the strength and good fortune to die as submitters...
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It has not ceased to amaze me that despite al-quran never promoting "Quran alone", and despite al-quran advising ALLAH ALONE multiple times, majority of the forum members over so many years continue to consider themselves "Quran alone" rather than ALLAH ALONE, in complete violation and rejection of al-quran's message!
A very good point truthseeker11, perhaps it is best to just refer to Allah Alone/God Alone rather than to Qur'an alone - we see it in the names of so many websites.
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i would say rather its the first step of entering islam, although i do agree with you that their are many differing views and opinions, much misguided people, The truth is self evident. The differences dont matter to much, All monotheists who believe in God and the Last day, and Live a righteous life have a chance at redemption, God tells us He will tell us the truth of all that we disputed about.
God created the test, many people may come to a point where they either give up completely or turn to some other religion. Many other people may get stuck at some point following someone elses opinion or blindly following them and refusing to yeild. But a few people will always continue to believe and practise Islam, i truely believe God designed the test to stimulate us and prove who is realy truely devoted.
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I sdo not think people who say Qur'an Alone mean Qur'an instead of God. God is a given, what they mean is that they do not take humans' words together with God's words such as in the Qur'an.
To speak of Qur'an alone as contradicting God alone seems to me nitpicking.
On the other hand God alone for what? Once we start nitpicking we can go very far. No accuracy will be enough.
Salaam
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Peace everyone,
Allah's ayaat/signs are not found ONLY in Quran as per al-quran itself.
4153 We will show them ayaatina/our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your lord is witness over all things?
The signs/ayaat are in the horizons (which includes other books, the universe etc.) and within ourselves (inner compass/conscience 3030) also and not in Quran alone. ALL THOSE VERIFIED SIGNS SHOULD MATCH AND NOT CONTRADICT and that is the yardstick to verify any truth including al-quran itself.
Saying "Quran alone" means allah's signs are found ONLY in Quran which is inventing a lie and it definitely contradicts al-quran itself and also contradicts the divine signs being present in the horizons and within ourselves.
How to figure out which signs are of divine origin? Use the inner compass/conscience (3030), mind/reason (numerous signs), knowledge (1736), other real world evidence (4153). All those signs should match and not contradict for them to be of divine origin. If any sign contradicts with the other known and verified signs, it can be discarded as a lie and a fabrication.
The first step into entering the deen/system of "islam"/peacemaking is actually ALLAH ALONE and not "Quran alone". "Quran alone" is still a step in the wrong direction. Al-quran contains signs of divine origin for our guidance, but they are not the ONLY signs of divine origin.
Peace
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Peace everyone,
I have realized why some people are allergic to the term "ALLAH ALONE" and insist on using "Quran alone"; it is because they think if they do not say "Quran alone" it will open a "back door" to the possibility of hadith being necessary. Actually, no such thing happens. The fabricated hadith can easily be spotted and discarded by using al-quran's suggested methodology of verification of the truth. The fabricated hadith contradict with inner compass/conscience (3030), mind/reason, knowledge (1736), external real world evidence (4153), as well as signs in al-quran.
Peace
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Salam,
There are no "steps" to leaving God's system - most of us fall in and out of it for the most part of our lives. We only pray, as the prophets before us did, that we "die as submitters".
As for the arguments and bickering that you may see here...It is human nature to argue even when the knowledge has been attained...
319 The system with God is submission, and those who received the Book did not dispute except after the knowledge came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects the revelations of God, then God is swift in judgment.
What I have come to learn is that the path to God alone is never easy. You lose friends, become isolated, get shunned by family, are ridiculed for going against the majority, etc.. Add to this cocktail the tests that God will send upon you to test your conviction - and that is when people leave or break or simply revert back to their old ways.
292 Did the people think that they will be left to say "We believe" without being put to the test?
293 We had tested those before them, so that God would distinguish those who are truthful and so that He would know the liars.May we all have the strength and good fortune to die as submitters...
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Sola scriptura is an approach,
not a sect, let alone a religion!The point is to let G-D's messenger speak for itself.
The Quran is not the property of a 1.X billion of self-proclaimed muslims, nor does it advocate a religion called "islaam" in the first place!
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I sdo not think people who say Qur'an Alone mean Qur'an instead of God. God is a given, what they mean is that they do not take humans' words together with God's words such as in the Qur'an.
To speak of Qur'an alone as contradicting God alone seems to me nitpicking.
On the other hand God alone for what? Once we start nitpicking we can go very far. No accuracy will be enough.
Salaam
Good point huruf, peace.
I have realized why some people are allergic to the term "ALLAH ALONE" and insist on using "Quran alone"; it is because they think if they do not say "Quran alone" it will open a "back door" to the possibility of hadith being necessary. Actually, no such thing happens. The fabricated hadith can easily be spotted and discarded by using al-quran's suggested methodology of verification of the truth. The fabricated hadith contradict with inner compass/conscience (3030), mind/reason, knowledge (1736), external real world evidence (4153), as well as signs in al-quran.
Peace truthseeker11 - in light of this, do you think we can use some hadith as historical context? Also, what about those multitudes of hadith that can be neither verified or negated by using the Qur'an as the yardstick as it were?
Salam,
There are no "steps" to leaving God's system - most of us fall in and out of it for the most part of our lives. We only pray, as the prophets before us did, that we "die as submitters".
As for the arguments and bickering that you may see here...It is human nature to argue even when the knowledge has been attained...
319 The system with God is submission, and those who received the Book did not dispute except after the knowledge came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects the revelations of God, then God is swift in judgment.
What I have come to learn is that the path to God alone is never easy. You lose friends, become isolated, get shunned by family, are ridiculed for going against the majority, etc.. Add to this cocktail the tests that God will send upon you to test your conviction - and that is when people leave or break or simply revert back to their old ways.
292 Did the people think that they will be left to say "We believe" without being put to the test?
293 We had tested those before them, so that God would distinguish those who are truthful and so that He would know the liars.May we all have the strength and good fortune to die as submitters...
A very good point Layth, peace.
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Peace Osman,
Peace truthseeker11 - in light of this, do you think we can use some hadith as historical context? Also, what about those multitudes of hadith that can be neither verified or negated by using the Qur'an as the yardstick as it were?
When did I claim al-quran is the only yardstick? I have mentioned the other yardsticks also clearly which should be used to verify even al-quran according to al-quran itself. This is the problem here. I explain everything in detail and repeatedly but then 80% of what I say gets completely ignored.
ANY hadith has to be verified by all the yardsticks as the truth before it can be taken as the truth. If none of those yardsticks can verify it as the truth then obviously it cannot be taken as the truth and it is just an unverifiable hearsay.
As far as "belief" in hadith is concerned, your question is answered clearly and directly by the divine signs (7185, 456, 7750).
Peace
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It would be generalization to think that somehow atheism is the last stage before Quran alone.
Do some research on what exMuslims say about why their last stage was Quran alone. They were already in doubt about the entire religion and not about hadiths before they came to Quran. They wanted all the answers which they couldn't find from this book. Some probably chose the path out of greed. So the choice was rather experiment for them. They were not satisfied. Hence, they left. I have also come across a few who preferred to go by what others say about Quranic verses. They were not interested in using their own brain and energy on Quran. When the explanations sounded violent they took the highway while cursing Allah.
I wouldn't worry about it. Think about the class we took in college and then dropped in the middle of the semester because it was too hard to understand. The situation with those who left Islam after being in this Quran alone path is the same. How many people really get a degree in Physics? In my school, only one or two P! Its same here. One has to be truly passionate and interested in learning without letting depression of failure get in the way.
what makes you confident and comfortable in your Qur'an alone ways?
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes I saw the sign
Life is demanding without understanding
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes I saw the sign
-Ace of Base
I don't listen to pop, but the lyrics above describe why I love this path. Just wish they were written in present tense. I see the difference very clearly....very very clearly I never saw it when I was a sunni.I sdo not think people who say Qur'an Alone mean Qur'an instead of God. God is a given, what they mean is that they do not take humans' words together with God's words such as in the Qur'an.
I like the sound of Allah or God alone )
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It would be generalization to think that somehow atheism is the last stage before Quran alone.
Do some research on what exMuslims say about why their last stage was Quran alone. They were already in doubt about the entire religion and not about hadiths before they came to Quran. They wanted all the answers which they couldn't find from this book. Some probably chose the path out of greed. So the choice was rather experiment for them. They were not satisfied. Hence, they left. I have also come across a few who preferred to go by what others say about Quranic verses. They were not interested in using their own brain and energy on Quran. When the explanations sounded violent they took the highway while cursing Allah.
I wouldn't worry about it. Think about the class we took in college and then dropped in the middle of the semester because it was too hard to understand. The situation with those who left Islam after being in this Quran alone path is the same. How many people really get a degree in Physics? In my school, only one or two ! Its same here. One has to be truly passionate and interested in learning without letting depression of failure get in the way.
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes I saw the sign
Life is demanding without understanding
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes I saw the sign
-Ace of Base
I don't listen to pop, but the lyrics above describe why I love this path. Just wish they were written in present tense. I see the difference very clearly....very very clearly I never saw it when I was a sunni.
I like the sound of Allah or God alone )That is fine, you like. That is understandable and fine. What I do not like is when people cling to this or that expression as a proof of something way beyond what is intended, that is, nitpicking.
Myself I do not feel so much about God alone or Qur'an alone. I think nothing is alone really. God is alone but on the other hand He has created creatures who can speak to Him... Which shows again that that "alone" is a contextual thing, in the context of worshipping or believing in something transcendent beyond our powers or whatever.
As to Qur'an alone bing the last step to leaving islam, the world is full of last steps to leave anything. For some it may be for others may be de opposite.
Salaam
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When did I claim al-quran is the only yardstick? I have mentioned the other yardsticks also clearly which should be used to verify even al-quran according to al-quran itself. This is the problem here. I explain everything in detail and repeatedly but then 80% of what I say gets completely ignored.
My apologies truthseeker11.
I also have at times felt like this in the past. I think I may have inferred a little too much!
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Salaamun alaik ya akhi Osman,
My apologies truthseeker11.
I also have at times felt like this in the past. I think I may have inferred a little too much!
No problem. I apologize if I sounded a bit harsh.
handshake
Barak Allahu feekum
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For me quranism was the last step before leaving Islam. I consider myself an apostate. To me a divine Quran is really a joke. A divine revelation to Muhammad, I find no trace of. Islam to me is a evolved version of the crazy messianist faith of the judeonazarenes who were expecting the end of times and considered themselves to be the only true believers. Much of the latter can still be detected in modern day muslim behaviour.
I still believe in God however. I just don't think God would express "Him"self in the format we find in the Quran.
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I do. But it would absurd to keep calling myself Muslim when there are no common denominators left outside the belief in the One God.
