Why Should We Believe the Quran is Divine?
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Peace Osman.
Qoran is either a miracle or tales from the past.
Some believe and some reject.
Why should you believe?
Like GOD said?" Believe in it or do not believe in it"?
Also proofs are for the believers.
For example some believe this,(and this is just one of many miracles to those who believe?)
http//submission.org/sign_in_the_universe.htmlGOD bless you.
Peace,Peace Good Logic,
I hope you don't take this personally but I think that was a really poor attempt in terms of answering my question, which I think we can agree is a very important one for somewhere like this forum.
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Hi Osman.
Good question indeed. The Qur'an has many 'miracles' to convince believers who want to base their faith on science, logic and proof in stead of just following something without questioning it.
There are the scientific miracles https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=HONF5YsqdUs
There are the historical miracles https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yinhd6dlS_I
There are the linguistic miracles https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KPEiGqDQHg
There are the mathematical miracles https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma8b5abITcg
Of course, one has to be critical but openminded/openhearted to notice these miracles.
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d16CpWp-okI personally also liked the one in which the development of the human embryo is correctly explained in the Qur'an https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuAfmJ3LS4s
Another one I like is verse 6125 "Whoever God wishes to guide, He will comfort his chest to submission; and whoever He wishes to misguide, He will make his chest tight and constricted, as one who is ascending towards the heaven. It is such that God lets taint those who do not believe."
Another scientific miracle of the Qur'an, how could anyone have known that when you climb into the skies you can't breathe because there's a lack of oxygen, and a change in temperatures and pressures which cause a persons chest to become tight and difficult to breathe?
How could anyone have known this 1400 years ago?
These are considered 'signs' (ayats) from God, but most people turn away from the signs as the Qur'an predicts.
But of course, all these miracles set aside, I also simply believe in the message of the Qur'an which focusses on a Creator and that every good or bad deed will be answered (Even some atheists believe in 'karma'. I don't believe everything came into existence in such perfect order by chance and love how the Qur'an sometimes refers to nature and think logically.
I remember being immediately filled with fervent faith when coming cross the numerological miralces of the Quran and how this proved beyond doubt its divinity - I'm referring to "day" being mentioned 365 times and other words etc. in sites such as Harun Yahya, then when actually doing the work myself to validate this I remember feeling the dejection of low of realising that "day" doesn't appear 365 times at all and most of the claims made on sites like Harun Yahya's are bold faced lies.
Interesting fact. I've also questioned this myself but haven't done the research (yet). How did you validate it to be false? Did you actually count the word 'yavm' (day) in the Arabic Qur'an or did you use a Qur'an word searching site online? I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turned out to be a lie, as some muslims tend to elevate some things too much out of wishful thinking and exaggerate.
I am also curious about other opinions on this forum.. What makes all of you believe in the Qur'an?
Peace.
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Interesting fact. I've also questioned this myself but haven't done the research (yet). How did you validate it to be false? Did you actually count the word 'yavm' (day) in the Arabic Qur'an or did you use a Qur'an word searching site online? I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turned out to be a lie, as some muslims tend to elevate some things too much out of wishful thinking and exaggerate.
I am also curious about other opinions on this forum.. What makes all of you believe in the Qur'an?
Peace.
Peace Alper88,
I did a search for all instances of put them in a spreadsheet and counted, even though I did a search for the singular I gota couple of plurals which I deleted. All in all I think I counted something like 416, and they were forms yawma, al-yawma, yawmu etc etc etc none gave 365, the closest I got was one form giving 399.
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Peace Osman.
The answer to your question is in Qoran.
Do you think some will be convinced?
No matter what proofs GOD gives ,some will not believe.
My poor attempt at answering your question is the truth.
Think about it, if there was an answer that convinces everyone, the matter would be settled and everyone believes!
Every individual needs to investigate/search/study Qoran and find their own proofs or not.
My proofs,your proofs and someone else s proofs will differ if our minds/motives/ways...differ.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Osman.
The answer to your question is in Qoran.
Do you think some will be convinced?
No matter what proofs GOD gives ,some will not believe.
My poor attempt at answering your question is the truth.
Think about it, if there was an answer that convinces everyone, the matter would be settled and everyone believes!
Every individual needs to investigate/search/study Qoran and find their own proofs or not.
My proofs,your proofs and someone else s proofs will differ if our minds/motives/ways...differ.
GOD bless you.
Peace.I'm sorry good logic but you haven't given any proof or helped to explain any proof - forgive me for being blunt but you're basically saying I'm at fault here because you're too lazy to explain yourself.
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Peace Osman.
I am sorry to disappoint you. I have not got your answer.
I have my answer.
Also I have given you a point to ponder.
Am I too lazy to give you an answer? Or is the answer obvious?
I would have thought that if one makes the effort to study/check/analyse Qoran ,then they would find their answer.
There is no other easy way to find out.
That is the point I wanted to make here.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Osman.
I am sorry to disappoint you. I have not got your answer.
I have my answer.
Also I have given you a point to ponder.
Am I too lazy to give you an answer? Or is the answer obvious?
I would have thought that if one makes the effort to study/check/analyse Qoran ,then they would find their answer.
There is no other easy way to find out.
That is the point I wanted to make here.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Peace good logic,
If you've read my other forum posts you can infer that I have made the effort to study/check/anayse the Quran. The point of this thread was to see how well people could bring their arguments given the appropriate challenge.
Apart from providing a link to a submitter website with a verse that talks about the sky going red and a picture of a red nebula you haven't done a very good job of things.
I feel at times that this forum can more wishywashy than any new age website.
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Hi all,
Me again! ;D I know I've been starting a lot of threads lately and I'm sure the mods don't mind as they've generated a bit of activity. My next question is plain and simple - why on earth should anyone believe that the Quran is divine?
I remember being immediately filled with fervent faith when coming cross the numerological miralces of the Quran and how this proved beyond doubt its divinity - I'm referring to "day" being mentioned 365 times and other words etc. in sites such as Harun Yahya, then when actually doing the work myself to validate this I remember feeling the dejection of low of realising that "day" doesn't appear 365 times at all and most of the claims made on sites like Harun Yahya's are bold faced lies.
So, my question now is - On what authority do we have that the Quran is divine and sent from the ruler of the universe and therefore serves as the basis and framework for what we should follow?
Greetings Osman!
The truth is there is no reason (by today's standards) to believe that the Quran is from God, anymore than there is reason to believe that the rain water actually comes from the water on the ground! Probably the time it was revealed/written also had standards that the text did not satisfy back then as some of the claims made by it and observable today were not observable back then! Imagine how fictional some things we know as fact today sounded back then? Likewise there are more claims that we cannot prove today because they either havent manifested or there's no way to observe them.
The proof is in the text, in between the lines, not the words of the text or the letters themselves.
If you start counting letters and words, my friend you are entering a black hole of no return. The text is very strange in itself because depending on the method of analysis, it seems there is some mathematical order to it. This however, is nonsensical criteria and a yet more foolish approach in search of proof. It's a text!! It's meant to be read and understood! Not counted and understood!
I find the claims made in the text to be correct, some of the other claims are not observable and so "belief and/or faith" beyond what is observable becomes a personal choice quite obviously and the text points this out, you might believe you might not believe and points out the consequences of each.
For the claims that are not observable, you will never find any hard evidence for it till they manifest! So searching for proof here is inherently futile!
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Greetings Osman!
The truth is there is no reason (by today's standards) to believe that the Quran is from God, anymore than there is reason to believe that the rain water actually comes from the water on the ground! Probably the time when it was revealed/written also had standards that the text did not satisfy as some of the claims made observable today were not observable back then!
The proof is in the text, in between the lines, not the words of the text or the letters themselves.
If you start counting letters and words, my friend you are entering a black hole of no return. The text is very strange in itself because depending on the method of analysis, it seems there is some mathematical order to it. This however, is nonsensical criteria and a yet more foolish approach in search of proof. It's a text!! It's meant to be read and understood! Not counted and understood!
I find the claims made in the text to be correct, some of the other claims are not observable and so "belief and/or faith" beyond what is observable becomes a personal choice quite obviously and the text points this out, you might believe you might not believe and points out the consequences of each.
For the claims that are not observable, you will never find any hard evidence for it till they manifest! So searching for proof here is inherently futile!
Hi A.W! )
Thanks for the response, aside from the numerology part then, what makes you believe it is from God and unaltered?
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Greetings Osman!
I can't put my answer into words, but since I find that the claims made, for example how the child generally forms in the mothers womb, the fact of everything created having pairs, who knew that even plants have males and females where a single plant will sprout both a pair of male and female?
Depends on what you mean by alteration. I dont care for differences in words for example where one version of the Quran reads "if so" while the other reads "then if".
The text is most certainly written by humans (I am not saying it was inspired by a human mind neither do I think it is) unlike the tablets that Musa (pbuh) received that are understood to be directly from God, as directly as possible, but the message comes from God and the message remains intact. It would be interesting to see if any old Quran that is discovered, gives a different message as a whole and/or has completely different, unheard of passages.
I hope i am making sense. Just as a very crude example, If I were to write down the aftermath of a sports game that I witnessed "Oh the eagles beat the hawkes by a huge margin!" Now when you wrote it down, you saw what was written and wrote it instead as "Oh the eagles had a huge victory over the hawkes!"
The message essentially is the same, even if it uses different words to express it!
Again why I believe is in the message itself!
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Peace Osman.
Why should we believe the Qoran is divine?
http//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/is-qoran-the-word-of-god/
In short Qoran is challenging everyone to check its contents !
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Osman.
Why should we believe the Qoran is divine?
http//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/is-qoran-the-word-of-god/
In short Qoran is challenging everyone to check its contents !
GOD bless you.
Peace.Peace good logic,
I've just read it and again it shows nothing, just more wishwashy empty talk - either that or my mind is clouded due to my evil. Am I on a fundamentalist christian site here? Maybe I just need to let Christ into my heart in order to see.
Sorry if I'm sounding even more negative but I think you're making me this way '(
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Peace Osman.
I see. You want me to convince you?
Ok. fine,I will have a go.Qoran is a unique book, full of miracles, full of guidance and full of light. One of the unique characters of the Quran is that while it is a book of guidance to the sincere believers it would misguide those who are not sincere in seeking the truth.
This is is no more than God fulfilling His promise to give the humans what they asked for, to choose freely and decide to accept Him and His scroptures or not.
We should not be taken by surprise when we find others reading the same verses or read about the miracles of the Qoran and get nothing out of them or even get the opposite understanding. It is God's system, "No compulsion in religion" 2256
We all know that there are over 1.5 billion Muslims around the world who read the same Qoran but most of them get nothing out of it or get a distorted meaning and understanding supported by corrupted scholars or others who are misguided because they chose to ignore God's teaching in the Qoran and go after man-made books .
We send down in the Qoran healing and mercy for the believers. At the same time, it only increases the wickedness of the transgressors.
Say, "O people of the scripture, you have no basis until you uphold the Torah, and the Gospel, and what is sent down to you herein from your Lord." For sure, these revelations from your Lord will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Therefore, do not feel sorry for the disbelieving people.
God points out the PATHS, including the wrong ones. If He willed, He could have guided all of you.
We showed him the two PATHS, then, he is either appreciative, or unappreciative.
Did we not show him the two PATHS?
Keep checking brother and study it.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I see. You want me to convince you?
Quran 2111 - And they say, "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian." That is their wishful thinking, Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."
So I ask you good logic to produce your proof, if you should be truthful.
I have asked 5 times to provide proof and 5 times you have avoided my challenge.
The first time I made this challenge was in the form of an open question to the whole Free-Minds community, you came forward of your own volition.
Qoran is a unique book, full of miracles, full of guidance and full of light. One of the unique characters of the Quran is that while it is a book of guidance to the sincere believers it would misguide those who are not sincere in seeking the truth.
This is is no more than God fulfilling His promise to give the humans what they asked for, to choose freely and decide to accept Him and His scroptures or not.
So is it me who is blind to your 'proofs' or is it you who is blind to my assertation that you have not provided any proof in the first place? I argue the latter.
I don't mean to criticise but your stance is identical to those fundamentalist Christians who argue that you can only 'get' the divinity of Christ if you allow Christ into your life - which equates to 'I have no proof'. I hold you and the other members of this community to a higher accountability than this.
As insulting as I may come across in this post it is you Sir who have hurled the greatest insult at me for simply asking for clear and straightforward proof of your assertation, and have levelled the accusation that I am of the evil wrongdoers whose heart is corrupt soimply because I have disagreed with you 4 (and now 5) times.
You can only accuse me of rejecting the clear proofs when you have presented those proofs.
You cannot imply that I have rejected the proofs when the proofs have not been revealed (and by that I mean within the context of this forum thread for the sake of discussion). The way you have approached the issue is to simply stifle all discussion.
We should not be taken by surprise when we find others reading the same verses or read about the miracles of the Qoran and get nothing out of them or even get the opposite understanding. It is God's system, "No compulsion in religion" 2256
We all know that there are over 1.5 billion Muslims around the world who read the same Qoran but most of them get nothing out of it or get a distorted meaning and understanding supported by corrupted scholars or others who are misguided because they chose to ignore God's teaching in the Qoran and go after man-made books .
You cannot say that someone is blind to the rationality of the right path when the path hasn't even been laid out to begin with! The path is the right assertation vs. the wrong assertation and as the verses you have shown details it is up to the people to chose between them.
Essentially for me there were no right or wrong answers in the sense that I was more interested at the kinds of reactions I would get with the proposal and depressingly it seems this community is in a dire situation. I wonder what kind of responses I would get on a Sunni or Shi'i forum. And to any who wish to argue out of the fact that this is a community. It clearly is, it is a community of those who wish to worship God alone through teachings established in the Quran. This online presence is all that people have in the form of a community as after years of existence it has failed to coalesce into the real world.
It's like we exist in an electronic limbo.
Thank you good logic for taking the time responding to my posts.
Peace.
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Peace Osman
The reason why we should belive that the Quran is Divine, is that can God make you see its Divine !
There aint in my view any shortcut or 100 % convincing arguments thats its from God.( Neighter that it aint)
But the claim is that the holy spirit has brought it down from God (16-102)
And since nobody really cant find real mistakes in it. You should be able, if God lead you to belive, that it?s DivineWhat I?m trying to say that it all come down to you relasenship with God. Cause its only if you belive in Gods sign you are led to the right path (16-104, 6-39).
And God lead the one he wants to the a straith path (16-93). So I dont belive that God make wrongdoers belive in his divine revalation. Thats why I think its Divine.But I came to some second thoughts concerning this. If these terrorist belive in the Holy Quran, Why are they then led to do evil.
Maybe they dont know it at all or what? That couldbe a new topic,Peace
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Hi all,
Me again! ;D I know I've been starting a lot of threads lately and I'm sure the mods don't mind as they've generated a bit of activity. My next question is plain and simple - why on earth should anyone believe that the Quran is divine?
Can you explain "What is Divine"?
So, my question now is - On what authority do we have that the Quran is divine and sent from the ruler of the universe and therefore serves as the basis and framework for what we should follow?
Authority?
In case of the Quran (the book) then it's based on the authority of those who wrote and compile it.
In this case it's "The authority of a caliph named Uthman bin Affan".
According to the "tale" as wrote by Bukhari some 200 years later.. -
Peace Osman and everyone,
Interesting thread.
As far as I know, the Quran is the only scripture in the world that speaks about the creator of the Universe from a rational/logical perspective. And in my view, this is a proof that the Quran is divine. In addition to that, there are several verses in the Quran that seem to confirm observable phenomena in nature/reality. See the posts below.
Who created the God?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607021.msg359448#msg359448
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607021.msg359468#msg359468
Who/what is the God?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606664.msg376206#msg376206
Also, I recommend the book "The Amazing Quran" by Gary Miller.
https//archive.org/details/TheAmazingQuran.pdf
In my view, the Quran is the only scripture that gives humans true equality. Because the Quran seems to suggest that males and females are completely equal. Also, the Quran seems to be the only scripture that has the potential to eliminate racism from the society once and for all. See the post below
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607803.msg375932#msg375932
By the way, I would like to share a quote here. There is a quote by Mos Def which goes like this
"If Islam's sole interest is the welfare of mankind, then Islam is the strongest advocate of human rights anywhere on Earth."
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Peace Osman.
I understand you.
Now let me see if I can clarify here so you can understand me.
It is not my job to convince you or anyone of the divinity of Qoran. I can only give you my view/understanding.
Like you I started my journey by checking the same claim.Among many claims that I checked was this one
http//submission.org/Word_of_God.htmlIt is a process that one must undertake and check for themselves, if they are serious about finding out.
Actually Qoran issues this challenge quite confidently and authoritatively.
Different people will give you different reasons of why they do or do not hold the Qoran as divine.
However you must check each claim yourself,study Qoran, and make up your own mind according to your findings.
I speak only for me when I say I have my answer and I am certain Qoran is divine.
Thank you for the conversation.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salaam Osman!
I remember being immediately filled with fervent faith when coming cross the numerological miralces of the Quran and how this proved beyond doubt its divinity - I'm referring to "day" being mentioned 365 times and other words etc. in sites such as Harun Yahya, then when actually doing the work myself to validate this I remember feeling the dejection of low of realising that "day" doesn't appear 365 times at all and most of the claims made on sites like Harun Yahya's are bold faced lies.
Actually I hate to tell you this, but you're wrong. The word day does appear 365 times. I recently counted this myself and posted about it here.
I even provided pictures from the Quran software Zekr that I used to search for the words.
I got really excited and went and told some friends. And one of them responded with, "what about the word 'month'?"
I told him "That appears 12 times!"
The he asked "What about 'months'?"Well..months, doesn't seem to have any relevance whatsoever, and now that has irritated me ever since he pointed it out! Why make 'day' appear 365 times, 'days' appear 30 times and 'month' appear 12 times, only for 'months' to appear a totally random number of times?
But I digress.
Actually I think that Quranic divinity is the result of a number of factors. The numerology aspect is definitely impressive to me, but there are a few other things that stand out to me.
First - we can immediately perceive in the tafsirs and hadiths plenty of manifestly incorrect things to do with science. For example, I believe it was in Ibn Kathir that it was stated that the earth sits floats on an ocean, which sits in a bowl, which sits on the horns of a bull...or something like that. The Quran has nothing like this. There isn't even a single occasion when the Quran says "if a fly falls into your drink, dip it into the liquid because the disease is on 1 wing and the cure for the disease is on the other." Do you see what I mean? The tafsirs and hadiths are perfect examples what everyday desert-dwelling people believed in 1400 years ago. The Quran isn't.
Secondly - the Quran has a mysteriously consistent logical exposition. Many stories are written in a step-by-step rational rhetorical style. I mentioned elsewhere in the forum that I started a project a few years ago that I abandoned out of laziness, where I tried to follow the Quran's logical argument. I found that the beginning of surah 2 has an extremely strong logical pattern. Just as an example
21-5 this is the book - an explanation of what the book is (hudan lil-muttaqeen). and an explanation of who these ppl are
5-20 definition of who the kuffar are > confrontations with others and lying (11,13,14)
17-20 analogies of the kuffar
21-26 therefore worship Him + reasons given for worship- creation, a catering environment, and paradise (25)
22-23 if you doubt then bring forth an equal surah or witnesses; this finishes the argument from beginning (let there be no doubt)
26 parable of a gnat
27-29 again describing the iniquitous. and giving reasons to believe.So to summarize what happens in the first 30 verses of surah 2, we get an introduction to what the book is, a description of who the good and bad people are, analogies to help people understand, instruction to worship, reasons for worship, challenge to deniers, 2nd description of bad people, questions how one can still deny, and then 2nd time same reasons given to worship.
This sort of logical exposition is especially apparent later on with the story of the Israelites from verse 40 to 70.
