A Challenge to All Believers of Quran
-
Peace mmmm, please give examples from the Quran.
Bro, I started a thread on that before. Qatal does have other meanings and they suit many verses rationally. I am posting the verse which Israfeel used to bully me about Quran.
And when Moses said to his people, "O my people, indeed you have wronged yourselves by your taking of the calf . So repent to your Creator and kill yourselves. That is best for you in the sight of your Creator." Then He accepted your repentance; indeed, He is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful. 254
Satanic tafseerAn-Nasa'i, Ibn Jarir and Ibn Abi Hatim recorded Ibn `Abbas saying, "Allah told the Children of Israel that their repentance would be to slay by the sword every person they meet, be he father or son. They should not care whom they kill. Those were guilty whom Musa and Harun were not aware of their guilt, they admitted their sin and did as they were ordered. So Allah forgave both the killer and the one killed.'' This is part of the Hadith about the trials that we will mention in Surat Ta Ha, (20) Allah willing. (Tafseer ibn Katheer).
The worst thing I hear now is that anyone who does calf worshipping must be killed because of verse 254.
Truth Allah will never ever tell his slaves to go around killing. Qatal here means purification or making oneself humble.
-
Truth Allah will never ever tell his slaves to go around killing.
Salam
Very true... sun...to further substantiate this please refer to Quran 0230
And, when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood....
Salam
-
The Qur'an is a conceptual guide, always keep in mind one concept cannot contradict another. The establishment of a Qur?anic concept termed ?QISAAS? is the foundation of relief from all wrongs. It does not mean to inflict punishment on the wrongdoer, rather it means to pursue the wrongdoer in such a way that they are held accountable for their actions, and relief is established for both the soul/s wronged and the soul who acted to wrong. It means that in the substantive system, no wrongful action shall remain untracked, unanswered or ignored.
-
Qatal is not "put to death" at all, only defeat a person, in various ways. Context defines.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Get well
Do you think your God approves of rudeness?
Be safe / be well is courtesy and wishing of well to people and you reply to me with "get well"?
I think the person who said "get well" is the person who needs to tell himself that the most.
-
vb. qtl does mean to kill (put to death),
or eliminate (put an end to)?Guys wake up! Root Qaf-Ta-Lam, its primary meanings is "to get to know someone/something very or superlatively well"
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000238.pdf
Regards,
-
Imrankhawaja, are you a half wit?
oh really ,,, and what about you,,, you are engineer I think or may be doctor,,, or a person who is going against his scripture,,, awww I think best word for you is disobedient servant of Allah ,,, who called people by their bad names..
"O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors." (4911)I think I need to remind you about this verse of quran ,,,
now come to the point on which grounds you called me half wit or stupid,,, I would like to know... then we will proceed talk.. jazak allah -
Project Root List
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/16_QAF.htmQaf-Ta-Lam
to kill, put to death, be accused, slay/murder/kill/slaughter, attempt to kill, render person like to one killed, to wage war/combat/battle, to master, contend/fight, deadly, knew a thing thoroughly/well, become acquainted with it.
Lughatul-Qur'an, by G.A. Parwez
http//islamicdawn.com/lughatul-quran-parwez-english-translation-project/
http//www.qes.no/Lughat/VIII.pdfQTL
Raghib says it also means to insult another or to make him bend.
Ibn Faris says it basically means to insult or kill someone.(qatl) means to insult, demean or to make someone incredulous so that no one gives it any thought or importance. In other words "make him ineffective".
(uqtulu fulaana) made him like he was among the dead, i.e. his presence and absence will become irrelevant.
(qatala ash-sharaab) to add water to a drink and make it less effective or potent {T}.
(qatala ash-shay-a khubra) he acquired full knowledge about that thing.
(innahu laqatlu ash-sharr) he knows evil very well.
(al-muqattalu) a man who is very experienced and knows the truth or facts about things {T}.
As such, everywhere, where the word qatl appears in the Quran, it would not mean to kill somebody. Its meanings will be determined with reference to the context in which it is used. Sometimes it will be "to kill", sometimes it will mean "to demean" and "to insult", other times it will mean "to make ineffective" or "to destroy". Sometimes it will mean to deprive of education, and other times to acquire full knowledge etc.
Dictionary of The Holy Quran, by M.G. Farid
http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=qtl
https//www.alislam.org/quran/dictionary/dictionary_quran.pdfQTL
He killed his carnal desires.
He killed or lessened or weakened the strength of wine by mixing water with it; he mixed water with wine.
He lessened the intensity of hunger and cold.
He humbled him completely; he rendered him like unto one killed physically, morally or spiritually.
He acquired complete and full knowledge of the thing so as to 'kill' all possibility of doubt.
Cursing a person.
-
Thanks for the reference, zayd. It all confirms the subduing meaning of qatel. It can mean to physically defeat someone, but it does not imply whether the person dies or not.
Be safe
Emanuel -
Guys wake up! Root Qaf-Ta-Lam, its primary meanings is "to get to know someone/something very or superlatively well"
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000238.pdf
This is a post-quranic meaning, with no basis in the writ.
Project Root List
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/16_QAF.htmQaf-Ta-Lam
to kill, put to death, be accused, slay/murder/kill/slaughter, attempt to kill, render person like to one killed, to wage war/combat/battle, to master, contend/fight, deadly, knew a thing thoroughly/well, become acquainted with it.
Lughatul-Qur'an, by G.A. Parwez
http//islamicdawn.com/lughatul-quran-parwez-english-translation-project/
http//www.qes.no/Lughat/VIII.pdfQTL
Raghib says it also means to insult another or to make him bend.
Ibn Faris says it basically means to insult or kill someone.(qatl) means to insult, demean or to make someone incredulous so that no one gives it any thought or importance. In other words "make him ineffective".
(uqtulu fulaana) made him like he was among the dead, i.e. his presence and absence will become irrelevant.
(qatala ash-sharaab) to add water to a drink and make it less effective or potent {T}.
(qatala ash-shay-a khubra) he acquired full knowledge about that thing.
(innahu laqatlu ash-sharr) he knows evil very well.
(al-muqattalu) a man who is very experienced and knows the truth or facts about things {T}.
As such, everywhere, where the word qatl appears in the Quran, it would not mean to kill somebody. Its meanings will be determined with reference to the context in which it is used. Sometimes it will be "to kill", sometimes it will mean "to demean" and "to insult", other times it will mean "to make ineffective" or "to destroy". Sometimes it will mean to deprive of education, and other times to acquire full knowledge etc.
Dictionary of The Holy Quran, by M.G. Farid
http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=qtl
https//www.alislam.org/quran/dictionary/dictionary_quran.pdfQTL
He killed his carnal desires.
He killed or lessened or weakened the strength of wine by mixing water with it; he mixed water with wine.
He lessened the intensity of hunger and cold.
He humbled him completely; he rendered him like unto one killed physically, morally or spiritually.
He acquired complete and full knowledge of the thing so as to 'kill' all possibility of doubt.
Cursing a person.
Can you provide examples from the Quran ?
Salute
-
Can you provide examples from the Quran ?
faqtuluu anfusakum
A. slay one another and commit suicide
B. subdue/master/conquer/control/humble your nafs
(Freeminds)
And Moses said to his people ?O my people, you have wronged your souls (Zalamtum anfusakum) by taking the calf, so repent to your Maker, and kill yourselves (faqtuluu anfusakum). That is better for you with your Maker, so He would forgive you. He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.?
(Muhammad Asad)
and when Moses said unto his people "O my people! Verily, you have sinned against yourselves by worshipping the calf; turn, then. in repentance to your Maker and mortify yourselves39; this will be the best for you in your Maker's sight". And thereupon He accepted your repentance for, behold, He alone is the Acceptor of Repentance, the Dispenser of Grace.
Note 39
Lit., "kill yourselves" or, according to some commentators, "kill one another". This literal interpretation (probably based on the Biblical account in Exodus xxxii, 26-2 is not, however, convincing in view of the immediately preceding call to repentance and the subsequent statement that this repentance was accepted by God. I incline, therefore, to the interpretation given by `Abd al-Jabbar (quoted by Razi in his commentary on this verse) to the effect that the expression "kill yourselves" is used here in a metaphorical sense (majazan), i.e., "mortify yourselves".
(Freeminds)
And We appointed a meeting time for Moses of forty nights, but then you took the calf after him while you were wicked.
Then We forgave you (thumma
afawnaaankum) after that, perhaps you would be thankful.
(Freeminds)
The people of the Book ask you to bring down to them a book from the heaven. They had asked Moses for even more than that, for they said ?Show us God openly!? So the thunderbolt took them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf after the clarity had come to them, and We pardoned them (fa `afawnaa) for this; We gave Moses a clear authority.
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/2_AYN.htm
Ayn-Fa-Waw
to forgive/pardon, abound, pass over, forgo, grow, multiply, obliterate all traces, remit, give more than what is due, relinquish right or remit in whole or in part. afina (oblique pl. of afin) - forgiving. afuwwan - very forgiving, name of Allah. afwun - forgiveness, indulgence, surplus, superfluity. ya'fu - to pardon. ufiya - he is pardoned. (It does not necessarily imply the committing of a sin on the part of a person about whom it is used.)
-
Guys wake up! Root Qaf-Ta-Lam, its primary meanings is "to get to know someone/something very or superlatively well"
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000238.pdf
Regards,
One needs to know the arrangement of Lane's lexicon to understand, what is the primary signification of a given root? He has described it in the preface. Furthermore, to be able to understand the real meanings of Quran and its words, one needs to able to understand/comprehend following.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599853.msg237622#msg237622
-
Edward Lane's Lexicon, 19th century, is overwhelmingly based on the definitions from ancient lexicons. Many of them actually. It is both "Context" and "Etymology" in that book, because Edward Lane did not come up with the definitions himself, he simply gathered up definitions from several lexicons and interpreted them with a documentation using English.
I would prefer to use his work as a source than some deluded scholars who have not even searched definitions from all available lexical sources.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Edward Lane's Lexicon, 19th century, is overwhelmingly based on the definitions from ancient lexicons. Many of them actually. It is both "Context" and "Etymology" in that book, because Edward Lane did not come up with the definitions himself, he simply gathered up definitions from several lexicons and interpreted them with a documentation using English.
I would prefer to use his work as a source than some deluded scholars who have not even searched definitions from all available lexical sources.
Be safe
AmenuelHe " simply gathered " you say ?!
Sounds like bukhari v.2 to me ... /
The Quran was composed in a pre-quranic, Arabian tongue,
not in post-quranic "CA" ! <--Lane's lexicon, or ibnu manzur's work, etc. are post-quranic projects (that tend to parrot sunnis) and thus hold no authority whatsoever over the quranic language. Its the other way around.Salute