Location of the messengers and revelations
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So the number one thing to bug me is what 'children of Israel' refers to, and the number two thing is the location for all these adventures and revelations.
So far, it seems to me that most of the messengers and all of the revelations occured in the middle east. Why is this? What about the people living in south America or in Japan, why did they not get any messengers?
Are we to believe that the middle east was to get all the action, and that from there the words of God would spread out slowly all over the globe?
Are we sure all the messengers and prophets referenced in the Quran were living in the middle east? How much do we know?
I really would like to understand this, because its always in the back of my mind, why all this stuff took place in one general area of the whole planet. Maybe some of the messengers referenced in the Quran lived in places far away from the middle east? Maybe people like Dhul-Kifl, Salih, and Shu'aib were from countries halfway across the world?
As you can see, I'm pretty clueless to Quranic history, but I've been trying to approach the Quran from the mindset that everything I thought I knew is false, and unfortunately alot of what I thought I knew was from the hadith, etc. I'm trying to read the Quran by believing it was revealed in the order I see it in the book, there is meaning behind everything, the main messengers were not superhuman, perfect beings, they were just regular men put in extraordinary circumstances, men of great courage and character. And as I'm reading this book with a different frame of mind, I'm trying to picture it all happening realistically, so as I read from sura 1 to 10, I can see from the outset Muhammad is being rejected by nearly everyone, he's having a hard time.
But all the while, I'm thinking "did all this take place in the middle east? From Abraham, all the way to Muhammad, all this happened in one continent of the planet!?" ?
And I know some of you will say that its not important where it occured; whats important is the message, but its still strange to me, and I just want to know what possible reasons there could be for the specific way (and location) humanity was given the Truth.
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Peace be upon you Beatnik,
So the number one thing to bug me is what 'children of Israel' refers to,
My understanding is as follows. The word "bani" means children. Children symbolize those who are not yet formed, that which is in the process of growing. The word "isra-eela" I believe, comes from the Hebrew Israel which means "isra" journey "el" God, so it is the children on a journey to the God.
WE (our thoughts) are the children of Isreal, it is our understanding that is still taking shape, growing. And it is our thoughts that seek the "face" of the God so therefore are on a journey.
and the number two thing is the location for all these adventures and revelations.
In our minds which manifests into reality, these adventures are happening right now in all locations. They are not specific to a physical location.
So far, it seems to me that most of the messengers and all of the revelations occured in the middle east. Why is this? What about the people living in south America or in Japan, why did they not get any messengers?
Exactly, we must think HOLISTICALLY. They DID get messangers and DO get messengers. "Muhammad" was not the name of a particular man, he is ANY OF US that reaches that level of appeciativeness, where we start to intuit the Divine Message. We can start to look right away at a situation and choose the correct answer without opening a book. Until then, we must consult the truthful messenger(message).
Are we to believe that the middle east was to get all the action, and that from there the words of God would spread out slowly all over the globe?
NO! D
Are we sure all the messengers and prophets referenced in the Quran were living in the middle east? How much do we know?
We have no proof at all, especially when we read texts from ancient Kemet that contain the very same concepts (virgin births, one brother kills the other, boats, woman seeking shelter, etc) Are these not similar to both Bible and this reading(quran) that people have given the title "Quran"? Not one person has seen any of these people literally. The Christains themselves were arguing the nature of the man called "Jesus" in 200A.D. Was he real or was he a symbolic story? The Church made him real, should we follow thier example?
I really would like to understand this, because its always in the back of my mind, why all this stuff took place in one general area of the whole planet. Maybe some of the messengers referenced in the Quran lived in places far away from the middle east? Maybe people like Dhul-Kifl, Salih, and Shu'aib were from countries halfway across the world?
They live EVERYWHERE! D
As you can see, I'm pretty clueless to Quranic history
All history, even that which happenned one second ago, is "quranic" history. There are signs in from the horizons to within our Minds for those of us who can read them.
but I've been trying to approach the Quran from the mindset that everything I thought I knew is false
That is the only way you can see the truth because the God has stated that you must be CLEAN(free from pre concieved ideas) to touch this message.
and unfortunately alot of what I thought I knew was from the hadith, etc.
Yes, that is the problem of the majority of humans, keeping in mind that when we say hadiths(stories) we are really saying falsehood, anything but the God's truth, not just the falsehood of Bukhari and co. And also remember that the God's message is the BEST hadith(story) as stated in this reading(quran).
I'm trying to read the Quran by believing it was revealed in the order I see it in the book, there is meaning behind everything, the main messengers were not superhuman, perfect beings, they were just regular men put in extraordinary circumstances, men of great courage and character. And as I'm reading this book with a different frame of mind, I'm trying to picture it all happening realistically, so as I read from sura 1 to 10, I can see from the outset Muhammad is being rejected by nearly everyone, he's having a hard time.
Yes he is having a very hard time D The God symbolizes our journey as climibing a mountain, the path that is steep. When you do what is right, you make the wicked look bad and get uncomfortable. You become a reminder for them too close for comfort. They want to be able to say "a messenger never came to us", but when you are right there calling them to right, their rejectin of the message makes them give you a hard time.
But all the while, I'm thinking "did all this take place in the middle east? From Abraham, all the way to Muhammad, all this happened in one continent of the planet!?"
If so we should all go there and bath in its soil, and drink its water, something! D
And I know some of you will say that its not important where it occured; whats important is the message, but its still strange to me, and I just want to know what possible reasons there could be for the specific way (and location) humanity was given the Truth.
It is not important because it is happening right now in all places of the world. D
Thanks for the mental exercise! D
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My understanding is as follows. The word "bani" means children. Children symbolize those who are not yet formed, that which is in the process of growing. The word "isra-eela" I believe, comes from the Hebrew Israel which means "isra" journey "el" God, so it is the children on a journey to the God.
Hmm, interesting. Are there any more avenues of thought concerning the word 'isra-eela'? Journey to God does sound very good though, and I agree with the concept of children. We are spiritually immature one could say, ...
In our minds which manifests into reality, these adventures are happening right now in all locations. They are not specific to a physical location.
That is true and I agree, although names of places are referenced in the Quran for a reason, surely? Unless these names are meant to signify other things like your idea of 'Israel'? Or are they named to prove to readers/listeners the validity/accuracy of the message?
Exactly, we must think HOLISTICALLY. They DID get messangers and DO get messengers. "Muhammad" was not the name of a particular man, he is ANY OF US that reaches that level of appeciativeness, where we start to intuit the Divine Message. We can start to look right away at a situation and choose the correct answer without opening a book. Until then, we must consult the truthful messenger(message).
You just made me ponder something, is Muhammad's name even mentioned in the Quran? Seems like a naive question, but maybe I'm the victim of many distorted translations, where the translator sticks in Muhammad's name to elaborate to the reader when the Creator is communicating with the messenger. Is his name mentioned, or is he simply referred to by 'you' and 'him', etc?
Are we to believe that the middle east was to get all the action, and that from there the words of God would spread out slowly all over the globe?
NO!
Rhetorical questions have to be asked!
We have no proof at all, especially when we read texts from ancient Kemet that contain the very same concepts (virgin births, one brother kills the other, boats, woman seeking shelter, etc) Are these not similar to both Bible and this reading(quran) that people have given the title "Quran"? Not one person has seen any of these people literally. The Christains themselves were arguing the nature of the man called "Jesus" in 200A.D. Was he real or was he a symbolic story? The Church made him real, should we follow thier example?
Yes, we must always remember how the length of time affects people, especially the masses. Its like our doubt of Bukhari's efforts to get information on Muhammad 200 years after his death, 200 years is a LONG time, especially in an age without email and such, lol. So a thousand years will surely see alot of misinformation throughout the ages, and all we have to hold onto is one book, our faith in its protection by God.
I'm not really too hung up on specifics of location, I think this book is enough, the messages are clear and striking, a person born on an island in the middle of nowhere will live a good life with just this for reading material, but I guess I'm interested in what really happened when the Quran was revealed, and compare it with what the majority of people think happened. I'll never know, I know... violin plays
If so we should all go there and bath in its soil, and drink its water, something!
lol, materialism makes people dirty, literally.
Thanks for the mental exercise!
Thanks for being patient with me.
Peace.
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"How many a sign in the heavens and on the earth and between them! They pass by them all, unmindful!" Messengers are every where around now in all languages, in all nations, in all communities, in all tribes, in all towns and in all individuals, all over the world! Now!!