Spiritual stories and Symbolism
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brother drfazl,
Nothing is inherently good or evil, not even death. It's what HUMANS do that is either good or evil, our actions and deeds.May Allah Endow Us!
brother someone,Everything is inherently good. Only the human touch makes it bad always. But for God's mercy, the world would have ended by now!
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If Allah were to punish men for their wrong-doing, He would not leave, on the earth a single living creature but He gives them respite for a stated Term When their Term expires, they would not be able to delay for a single hour, just as they would not be able to anticipate it.Knowing how to light up a fire is rather good than bad, at least one can cook and protect himeself from animals, but one can hurt someone else using fire. This is the test.
For cooking and protection from animals we need fire is bad knowledge. What happened to your wisdom? To your inner wish, that you want not the danger of fire but something better than or the best that is totally free from any harm? At this instance is it not that we need something to cook without fire or heat? Why did you not wish that wisdom? Does such a wish not what allah originated in your heart? Why did not you believe that wisdom/wish as a believer? Why were you associating your lesser, 'testy knowledge' with the Wisdom?
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If ye invoke them, they will not listen to your call, and if they were to listen, they cannot answer. On the final day they will reject your "Partnership". and none, O man! can tell thee like the One Who is acquainted with all things.Using knowledge to do bad things is what is called in the scripture as "sihr"
Yes. But what do we call as we unmindfully using the knowledge over the wisdomful wish. Yes, ignorance due to arrogance of knowledge has blinded our eyes.
I agree that wisdom has a positive connotation, contrary to "makr" or cunning.
I hope you see the picture )Sure I do.
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Peace be upon you Brother Fazl,
You say medical field has 'great' knowledge the adjective word 'great' carries the meaning the knowledge is in the direction towards wisdom. Right? If so, why it has as you say such things like 'problem, 'no proper application', 'external thinking', 'not able to see abstractly' etc.? Does it imply the knowledge however 'great' it is, can not see the wisdom because the direction of knowledge is inherently opposite to that of wisdom?
No, the problem is that knowledge must be put together properly, not kept SEPERATED/Fragmented.
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If Noahs son took refuge on a MOUNTAIN and still drowned, how was a building going to save him? Further, the fact that he took refuge with a mountain(government/religion) further strengthens the symbolism, keeps it CONSISTENT all throughout. Do you agree?Confusion. Where was the government/religion to take refuge with, when the flood waters (the tumult/revolution) have made the whole country drowned(destroyed).
Thats just it, as you can see by Noahs son STILL TALKING, the flood had not taken over everywhere just yet,but the FACT is that the story ends with ALL THINGS being destroyed except the righteous who were delivered by the God's STABLE truth.
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He was living on land, just like Noah and his people BEFORE the flood, get it?Do you say Yunus was stable when he lived on the ground. Why was he thorwn into the sea and then into a fish? Then he became unstable mentally(not able to govern himself) is what you are trying to say? What made him become mental? and as a result unstable? Fish is very much stable in water. So was Yunus stabilised inside the fish in the sea like submarine ships?
Yunus BECAME unstable, which is symbolized by him being thrown into the sea. He realized his mistake so he was swallowed up by a big fish to symbolize his increased stability,then finally put back on land.
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The people of musa had consciousness, it was just WRAPPED UP in this material illusion, so Musa came to them and told them to ARISE AND WARN! O you wrapped up!So were the people before musa's time too. Books and prophets came to them too. How are you going to equate the names of the other prophets before musa and their people and everything associated with them? And the innumerable prophets and rasuls who have not been mentioned in the book?
The prophets and messengers are CHARACTERISTICS in ALL OF US. They are LEVELS of understanding.
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This reading(quran) and all others are designed to shape our BEHAVIOR.Just born child. What is its behaviour? How about its wisdom or knowledge or understanding?
New born child is just starting to see SEPERTAION, when it is born it does not see itself as a seperate being from its mother and all objects in the room, it truly understands ONENESS and must be crying because it is now being SEPERATED as the cutting of the umbilical cord.
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We are not to grow WILDLY, but we are to CULTIVATE our minds. So like fire and water, a small fire, like the burning bush, is good. Like when you use a fire to cook food. But when that fire RAGES OUT OF CONTROL, we get the symbolism of HELL FIRE! Smal water is good for washing, or bathing, like rain, it symbolizes revelation, but when water RAGES OUT OF CONTROL, like a FLOOD, it is bad, can you see how marvelous and CONSISTENT this symbolism is?In the case of prophet Ibrahim the fire heat engulfing him was cooled down; the heat being removed from the fire, just by a command!
That which is fire for one person is cool for another, it all depends on your position. This was not a literal story were some man was set on fire and a magical formula was said for him.
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And mountains represent that which is MEANT TO stabilize. I say MEANT TO, because we don't have an example of a government that is stabilizing the people as it should. Please continue.Mountains are meant to stabilize the earth. Here the earth is actual earth and mountains are actual mountains. Hence, the "symbolism of what should have been as per your account" does not exist. Your symbolism is unstable here.
Symbolism is based on the CREATION, this way it is a LANGUAGE that ALL CAN SPEAK AND UNDERSTAND. You just don't want to see. So I leave you with your fantasies in Peace. Thank you for the discussion. I hope those who can SEE will see.
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Peace drfazl,
Knowing how to light up a fire is rather good than bad, at least one can cook and protect himeself from animals, but one can hurt someone else using fire. This is the test.
For cooking and protection from animals we need fire is bad knowledge. What happened to your wisdom? To your inner wish, that you want not the danger of fire but something better than or the best that is totally free from any harm? At this instance is it not that we need something to cook without fire or heat? Why did you not wish that wisdom? Does such a wish not what allah originated in your heart? Why did not you believe that wisdom/wish as a believer? Why were you associating your lesser, 'testy knowledge' with the Wisdom?
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If ye invoke them, they will not listen to your call, and if they were to listen, they cannot answer. On the final day they will reject your "Partnership". and none, O man! can tell thee like the One Who is acquainted with all things.I don't understand this part of your post.
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Everything is inherently good. Only the human touch makes it bad always. But for God's mercy, the world would have ended by now!
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If Allah were to punish men for their wrong-doing, He would not leave, on the earth a single living creature but He gives them respite for a stated Term When their Term expires, they would not be able to delay for a single hour, just as they would not be able to anticipate it.Peace drfazl,
Does everything here includes "iblis"?
I understand that except humans, everything in the creation had choosen to hear and obey the god, thus being "good" as you said. And thus, the "bad or evil" can only emmanate from ourselves.
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Peace drfazl,
Does everything here includes "iblis"?I understand that except humans, everything in the creation had choosen to hear and obey the god, thus being "good" as you said. And thus, the "bad or evil" can only emmanate from ourselves.
May Allah Bless
someoneYes. Except for the humans and jinns who were given the choice, everything in the creation had been chosen to obey the god. And thus, the "bad or evil" can only emanate from men and jinns. "Iblis" turned shaitan when he bacame proud before allah. Likewise, there are shaitans among the "men" too.
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Peace drfazl,
Knowing how to light up a fire is rather good than bad, at least one can cook and protect himeself from animals, but one can hurt someone else using fire. This is the test.
May Allah bless
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none, O man! can tell thee like the One Who is acquainted with all things."For cooking and protection from animals we need fire" is a very bad knowledge to lead the life with. Despite knowing that the fire has good and bad elements in it, why haven't we opted for the wisdom over knowledge to eliminate the injurious component of fire such as "burning", so that we use only the good? What happened to our wish/wisdom in the depth of our hearts? According to our wisdom, we sincerely wish we don't want the 'blazing' of fire but anything better and less harmful; or the best that is totally free from causing any injury. Our need now is either fire or heat, but not both. We do not want the flames of fire, for the fire is only for the hell bound. In the Reading, though Allah says we shall be fed with the birds' meat, we do not see in it Allah mentioning any thing called fire, indicating beyond doubt that with HIM is the wisdom above all knowledge to cook instantly without the flame of fire or heat. Why did we not wish that wisdom?
Allah's promise is He gives the wisdom if we wish the same as that He wishes for us that we may realize our choicest feelings without its harm ever touching us. Why did we not believe such wisdom/wish as a believer if we believe we are? Why are we associating our lesser, 'worthless knowledge' with the Wisdom of almighty?
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Peace drfazl, all
The god creates fire by his means of control, he creates also electricity, gravity, electro-magnetic fields and what we have no knowledge of.
You can cook your food using a microwave oven, if you don't want fire. But microwaves are not harmeless neither.
It all comes back to our way of using such means of control, which the god made them submit to our REASONING.
The ability to reason, I believe, is our ultimate advantage compared to the animals and others creatures.
We have to reason our way out, not reject everything in fear of harm. And maybe you dislike something where the god made good provision for you. Surely the god is the most wise.
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Peace drfazl, all
The god creates fire by his means of control, he creates also electricity, gravity, electro-magnetic fields and what we have no knowledge of.May Allah Bless
someoneGod does not create fire but we do with the limited knowledge He had allowed for us, sothat we keep returning to Him in repentance, asking Him for removal of injurious habit from our minds; that the knowledge arises in it as a result ingrains in it more and more adversity as our intelligence grows as per His allowance based on the purity/impurity of our mental stauts, say electricity, microwave, gas etc. Every invention is threatening the very existence of human life. For example cell phone causing brain damage; tv and computers causing damage to vision; atomic energy is threatening the world war and mutations of life etc.
Knowledge is a test for us to make us to turn towards Allah for Wisdom which alone has no adverse effect in it. But on the contrary, if we are satisfied with our 'knowledgeable stauts', then we are a proud people living dangerously.
It all comes back to our way of using such means of control, which the god made them submit to our REASONING.
Control must have another control and will go on endlessly that way, for the knowledge is full of mindlessness. For example, you develop a car. To prevent injury you extend a large body before the driver's seat, the bonet; then a bumper infront and back of the car as control; then speed control; then brakes; then hand-brakes; then safety belts, safety-balloon, traffic signals, traffic police, car horn etc., Despite all this and more, in the days to come for eternity, accidents will occur in increasing numbers becuae of mindlessness in a man's heart. He sees but is blind; he hears but deaf in the ears; he has heart but understands not.
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Man says, "This has been given to me because of a certain knowledge I have!" Nay, but this knowledge is but a trial, but most of them understand not!Seek Wisdom for awareness to become al-knowing. The reasoning finally must elevate us to the highest seat, the Wisdom.
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Peace drfazl, all
I have to remind you that we should not fear ANYTHING from the god's creation, not even fire, atomic radiations or "iblis". Instead, We should be fearing the one who created everything.
The wisdom that was bestowed on you by the god's will is very closely related to those means of control that you are condemning.
I understand your reluctance, I had the same opinion as yours, but please let me show you the other face of the coin.
Actually, humanity has enough wealth, knowledge and means at its disposition to eradicate famine, illiteracy and most of illness around the globe, by the god's will, or should I say, by the god's knowledge that he bestowed on us (humanity).
This brings us to the other quality of humans, which is somehow clouded by all the problems going on in the world. This quality is mercy or humanism, contrary to egocentrism that caused and still causes unlimited problems to humanity, and at worst, its extinction. But personnaly, I doubt that those in control in this world would ever dare to destroy the earth, and thus kill themselves by the same token. They have no faith in the afterlife, thus they are attached to this life more than anyone else.
You should have your trust in the god's wisdom, he has created everything, and surely he's the one who knows how to deal with his creation. We should not despair of the god's mercy.
Praise to the god the powerful the merciful, the lord of the skies and the earth and all that is between.
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God does not create fire but we do with the limited knowledge He had allowed for us
Peace drfazl,
This statement from you is not completely true.
With the truth and it's the truth, the god surely creates fire, this is easy for my lord. Don't you see thunders creating fire by the god's will? Don't you see volcanos? don't you see the heat of the sun and its burnig invisible fire, that burns skins and entire forests sometimes?
These are some of the signs of the god, for those who are aware.
May the god guide us. He is the one who guides.
Will we heed the call?
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Peace drfazl, all
The wisdom that was bestowed on you by the god's will is very closely related to those means of control that you are condemning.Whoever resists from being unjust and controls himself from becoming emotional for Allah's sake, are rewarded with wisdom from Allah, for their good deeds. Allah's wisdom has no negative effects in it. The more we are patient the more is the deletion of the 'bad' from our knowledge. The control shall have to be upon the mind from being desirous/erroneous. Knowledge follows desires/pride/arrogance/satan.
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When Yusuf attained His manhood, We gave him power and knowledge thus do We reward those who do rightActually, humanity has enough wealth, knowledge and means at its disposition to eradicate famine, illiteracy and most of illness around the globe, by the god's will, or should I say, by the god's knowledge that he bestowed on us (humanity).
Do you mean to say that you have enough of everything and therefore you need no more, for Allah has already bestowed upon you everything well in advance? You said about your ability to withstand famine, and control most of the illnesses which Allah sends down upon a people as punishment for their not turning towards Him with their righteousness for the reward/wisdom. For, He had already removed the good from your knowledge and had increased and brought to the fore the bad elements in the knowledge you have earned through literacy/pride.
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We took up the people in suffering and adversity, in order that they might learn humility. Then We gave them good in the place of evil plight until they became many and said Distress and happiness did indeed befall our fathers. Then We seized them by surprise while they did not perceive.This brings us to the other quality of humans, which is somehow clouded by all the problems going on in the world
."somehow" clouded? There you are lacking the "know-how". Return to the wisdom discarding all your know-how that you earned with your own hands through "literacy and pride-seeking"
But personnaly, I doubt that those in control in this world would ever dare to destroy the earth, and thus kill themselves by the same token.
America has done it before and doing it now and will do it forever. I hope you are not blind and deaf with the Bush and Blair when the whole world cried "No War!". Even as Hans Blix returned empty handed after weapons inspection, Bush administration said " Even if there is no sign of WMD in iraq, still we will bomb and we do not regret it for we are justified". You seem to be very personal like bush and blair's joint statement that shocked the world. What an arrogance! These are the people of america and england, far astray!
You should have your trust in the god's wisdom, he has created everything, and surely he's the one who knows how to deal with his creation. We should not despair of the god's mercy.
We are trying to say this to each other in turns I suppose. Either you missed what I have been maintaining all through, - or, have I missed ?