How Can We Wage War Against Allah?
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Refer to 474 God can do whatever he wills but he tests us. It's the whole purpose of life. Also the verse 5744 in which God informs us that he gave us iron to test who would support him. God is not in need of anything but we are and he tests us by giving authority on earth 'I will place a khalifa (authority etc) on earth' (230) to 'test us as to who is best in their deeds'. (672) . I think it's clear through the context of the Quran that God is all powerful and he supports whoever he wills. (313) that people can fight in the cause of God (for truth justice peace etc) or against it (terrorism oppression etc) that God is not in need of us. But that he tests us by more or less leaving us to our own devices.
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Are we clever/logical/reflecting/...enough to realise wars and violence does not work!!!!!
Every living person is someone's daughter/son/mum/dad/uncle/niece...etc They all deserve love and a chance to live their life. Every human is entitled to life. If you kill one is like killing all the humans!!!!Is the penny going to drop???
GOD bless you.
Peace.It's confusing really that the quran said that killing a believer(a muslim) will be punished with eternal hell, but on the other hand the quran never said that killing non-muslim or atheist will ever be punished with eternal hellfire, the quran only said that killing innocent people is like genocide,that's it.
I'm starting to doubt the quran really bad right now...why doesn't the quran value the life of a non-believer? -
Peace Karmen.
Qoran clearly says whoever kills "one" any human ,without reason is like killing all humanity.
One person and all humanity includes every single human!!!!
You are going to ask me for the verse from Qoran. I have a better idea , it will do you good to find it.
I will give you a clue" Man katala - Nafsan- bighairi nafsin auw fasadin fi Alardi fakaannama katala Alnaasa jameeaa"?
"Nafsan" means anyone!!! Muslim.Christian,Hindu,Jew.Atheist....etc.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Yes Karmen, you mentioned that verse in your post.
However if GOD says it is like killing all humanity,that will include "a believer". Hence the same punishment!
Thank you.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
And know that anything you obtain of war booty - then indeed, for Allah is one fifth of it and for the Messenger and for near relatives and the orphans, the needy, and the traveler, if you have believed in Allah and in that which We sent down to Our Servant on the day of criterion - the day when the two armies met. And Allah , over all things, is competent.
If the quran truly is from God then why do we need to give 1/5 of our plunderings to god? Isn't he a divine being who doesn't need our help??
Look i'm not an atheist or anything but i'm just as confused as the OP on top -
Peace Karmen.
Look at the context. GOD was talking to the believers during the prophets life about the -spoils of war-
841
You should know that if you gain any spoils in war, one-fifth shall go to God and the messenger, to be given to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the travelling alien. You will do this if you believe in God and in what we revealed to our servant on the day of decision, the day the two armies clashed. God is Omnipotent.The fifth was to be given to all those mentioned in the verse. GOD has no need for anything!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Karmen.
Look at the context. GOD was talking to the believers during the prophets life about the -spoils of war-
841
You should know that if you gain any spoils in war, one-fifth shall go to God and the messenger, to be given to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the travelling alien. You will do this if you believe in God and in what we revealed to our servant on the day of decision, the day the two armies clashed. God is Omnipotent.The fifth was to be given to all those mentioned in the verse. GOD has no need for anything!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace.If it wasn't for God in the first place then he wouldn't need to say 1/5 is for him, or he didn't have to write the word god in it...
It clearly says that the war booties are to be given to God, the messenger, orphan,travelers, and relativesIf god was excluded from obtaining war booties the the verse should look like this
You should know that if you gain any spoils in war, one-fifth shall go to the messenger,to be given to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the travelling alien. You will do this if you believe in God and in what we revealed to our servant on the day of decision, the day the two armies clashed. God is Omnipotent.
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Peace Karmen.
And if the messenger was omitted from it, it will look like this
You should know that if you gain any spoils in war, one-fifth shall go to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the travelling alien. You will do this if you believe in God and in what we revealed to our servant on the day of decision, the day the two armies clashed. God is Omnipotent.
That would be your words or mine.
GOD s words are there to highlight the source of obedience. GOD and His messenger .GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I think it is better to give the spoil to the widow or family of the man you just slew. Why loot the country where you go? You would fight them because they attack in ignorance, but why loot them?
Obviously the dead men's property should be saved and returned when the war is over if it was any sensible interpretation. Not that I think the context even speaks of war.
Quran's interpretation is pathetic and worldly. You see it come from men. It is another sign Quran was used to heavily rally for war and the 1/5 for the clergy to gain profit.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Peace Man Of Faith.
Your spoils of war are "looted". Mine are "compensation" and taking back what has been looted.
Also the widow and children are included in that list.
Finally ,that is not an instruction for you and me now,anyway?
Any translation will render it irrelevant now.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I think it is better to give the spoil to the widow or family of the man you just slew. Why loot the country where you go? You would fight them because they attack in ignorance, but why loot them?
Obviously the dead men's property should be saved and returned when the war is over if it was any sensible interpretation. Not that I think the context even speaks of war.
Quran's interpretation is pathetic and worldly. You see it come from men. It is another sign Quran was used to heavily rally for war and the 1/5 for the clergy to gain profit.
Be safe
AmenuelIf it's translated to profit , then why did god said that he needed 1/5 of the profit we gain to be given to him?
He's the big guy upstair why should he need any cut -
I just say Pagan!
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Who's the pagan? me? the interpreter, the translator, or the quran?
Isn't it clear mof that it said that the profit is to be given to god? -
Who's the pagan? me? the interpreter, the translator, or the quran?
Isn't it clear mof that it said that the profit is to be given to god?The interpreters that generated the interpretation that people have today, they are the Pagans. Not for the term itself but what it descriptively conveys. The word Pagan implies that a person is quite worldly. Here is a lexical definition taken from Merriam-Webster
2 one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods an irreligious or hedonistic person
That is very categorical for a Pagan. Many people who claim to be Muslim are also actually Pagan. It is more about behavior and mental perception than anything else. Its etymological origin is distorted and the dictionaries give it origin to Latin, but it does stretch further off than that and undoubtedly come from 'Gen' (jinn) in the Semitic languages which refers to a Bodily person. Gentile and Pagan both mean similar things. One who belongs very much to their Bodies and this World is Pagan or Gentile. It was abused by sectarian-minded to cause an arrogance towards other individuals. They, the Pagans, live in "(another) World" which is the meaning that they are PaGan. It has often been used mockingly, and people have not really understood its full implication.
People who worship a god very separately and in a material way is a Pagan just as a Pagan can be someone who takes pleasure in buying the most expensive television on the market for their home and like to brag about it. One who seeks Bodily pleasure is a Pagan. But instead of mocking people for being one they ought to help them. One is not a Pagan for anything good but it is something that brings displeasure and which causes confusion. It breaks one's Spirit, makes it hollow and they indulge more and become more primitive and like the primate Body their soul was attached to.
If the passage you refer to is using the word 'allah' that does not even mean God. I have tried to say it all before. Rabb is the personal address of what is usually called God in English.
Quran is a hijacked scripture where the possessors interpreted it at their own will without understanding the literature. They sought to confirm an older religious sectarian doctrine also known as (Pharisee) Judaism using an Arabic tongue. It was a political game and they had their own agenda which was to incite discord against whom they considered to dishonor God since there had emerged another type of faith in the Middle-East during that time which approved of association with God. This is why the sectarian interpretation so harshly makes an onslaught on such association. The targets were the faith systems that people refer today as Gnostics which was popular after John the Baptist and Jesus, the Messiah. There started a heavy persecution of those followers of Jesus and John for what they stood for. Those people generally did not believe Jesus was a biological offspring of God, that was another story. The Roman empire began to persecute the "Gnostics"* just as the Arabs and other people exposed to sedition by the Jewish Persian clerics had. Islam as fabricated by those clerics is just a fake term for a religion that never existed. In fact it does not have any name but it can be said that 'allah' is the common denominator which means "Who Is (as such)". Islam is a continuation of Judaism in another shape with other terms and other nonsense, and Persian clerics were evidently involved in its formation, just explore a little about who wrote the hadith literature.
- No one referred to themselves as Gnostic during that time but it is a later term. The word gnostic means "esoteric".
Be safe
Amenuel -
In my opinion (and not just my own but other people as well) this 841 doesn't speak about war at all, but about the profit. You should give to those categories 1/5th of your every profit.
There is no war, just self-defense. Under any circumstances it's not allowed to steal, rape, murder innocent people. How is this not common sense I do not get.
Peace.
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In my opinion (and not just my own but other people as well) this 841 doesn't speak about war at all, but about the profit. You should give to those categories 1/5th of your every profit.
There is no war, just self-defense. Under any circumstances it's not allowed to steal, rape, murder innocent people. How is this not common sense I do not get.
Peace.
And know that anything you obtain of war booty - then indeed, for Allah is one fifth of it and for the Messenger and for near relatives and the orphans, the needy, and the traveler, if you have believed in Allah and in that which We sent down to Our Servant on the day of criterion - the day when the two armies met. And Allah , over all things, is competent.
But it's as clear as day that 1/5 of the profit is to be given to god...and this is when the quran doesn not make any sense at all
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My initial question hasn't been answered yet the discussion branches out to another (related) topic, which also interesting, as pointed out by kamenriderkiki )
His question is valid Why Allah would ask 20% commission fee on war profit?
It's as if saying "Hey it's my war, I should have at least 20% stake of profit from it.."Nonetheless..
The "20% stake" might be relevant 1400 years ago.. but it is not relevant now.
Because NOW.. war is a "Loss making" enterprises..It's costly and due to massive destruction capability of modern armament, there will not be any "profit" because many of the "spoil of war" is destroyed anyway after the war. Instead of "gaining" the winning party shall bear the responsibility of doing the "rebuilding" of the destroyed assets, which incur additional cost.
Back to the "Gimme 20%" verses
There is GREAT possibility that some verses were actually an "injected" verses during the book compilation. ON this verse it seems it was written to justify 20% poll tax on war booty / plunder of war. -
Hey Jafar
I'm beginning to think that the quran isn't even from the divine at all since there are many scientific inaccuracyIt seems that the verse that you're issuing is for the people back then since prophets don't exist today, if it's intended for the people in the 7th century then i don't think that the quran is universal or evolving from time to time like other people have said, hence...not perfect
Thus the quran is man made,just writings of someone's admiration of God in a book and using it for War purposes in the name of God...
No offence
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I'm beginning to think that the quran isn't even from the divine at all since there are many scientific inaccuracy
Very much possible
It seems that the verse that you're issuing is for the people back then since prophets don't exist today, if it's intended for the people in the 7th century then i don't think that the quran is universal or evolving from time to time like other people have said...
Based on it's content, the Quran is not universal (meanings applicable at any places and at any time)
Thus the quran is man made, someone's admiration of God, put it in a book, and using it for War purposes
Very much possible, and I've met some people who have arrived at the same conclusion...