How Can We Wage War Against Allah?

Jafar

Peace Jafar

6/114 "Then is it other than Allah I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed
to you the Book explained in detail?" And those to whom We
gave the Scripture know that it is sent down from your Lord in truth,
so never be among the doubters.

Oh yes I doubted holy book, any holy books..

And my Lord will not even asked "why", because He already knows about it.
Even before I was born.. He already knows about it..
And the True God doesn't require me to believe in any man written book (or holy places, or holy idol, or holy artifacts)

I will doubted the "Book of the Dead" when I was born in Ancient Egyptian context too..
Thus I believe my attitude is quite consistent.. regardless of the context.

Plus I'm not hiding anything... (as such is the true meaning of the word "Kufr&quot..
As I believe the truth doesn't need any protection, it will reveal itself.. it just need to be told..

Now can we stop this "Ad Hominem" attack and return back to the topic?

My question hasn't been answered..
How should we wage war against Allah?

What are the first steps?
What is the stage or criteria to be fulfilled to meet the state of "I/We already waged war against Allah" as such subject to the gruesome punishment of painful.. and sloooowww death through crucifixion.

hawk99

Oh yes I doubted holy book, any holy books..

Now can we stop this "Ad Hominem" attack and return back to the topic?

Peace Jafar, the Quran is not referring to other holy books only the Quran.
Stop Ad Hominem attacks ??? attacking a position is not an Ad Hominem attack. nope

God bless

peace

Man_of_Faith

Sorry Man of Faith, but your disbelieve is apparent and you have no value
for guidance only misguidance.

Thanks hawk99. Your choice who to follow, deluded clerical figures from medieval times with their own agenda or me who has no real agenda.

What do I disbelieve in anyway? Can you not be more specific?

Why did you address me anyway? Do you not think I already understand my guidance has no value to you? Redundancy check.

Get well
Amenuel

hawk99

What do I disbelieve in anyway? Can you not be more specific?

I hope this helps

Peace Man of Faith, correct me where I'm wrong, thus far you
do not believe in a defensive war, ritual salat, ritual fast, hajj, the qiblah
being Mecca, the Quran's general interpretation as it is today. You do believe
one can be one/meld/blend with the Rabb, you prefer use of the word
Rabb instead Allah, and you mention/inspired by Jesus more than Muhammad.

AND

I know Jesus more than a person than Muhammad yes. Muhammad is a warlord and warmonger and an unrighteous man according to tradition.

Man of faith I asked you this once before but you did not answer

"Are you studying the abjad and huruf (not the forum member ) sciences"?

Do you think your God approves of rudeness?

Be safe / be well is courtesy and wishing of well to people and you reply to me with "get well"?

I think the person who said "get well" is the person who needs to tell himself that the most.

Get well
Amenuel

Apparently you approve of what you deem to be rudeness on my part, but I am sincere.

Get well

unknownuser

Christ...

Let's not throw the word Kafir, kuffr or anything related to disbelieving

Don't be that kind of muslim that everyone in the west right now hates

Try using the word "Why?" to understand the person you're arguing instead of"Kafir" to justify that you're more muslim than the other

Please if you think that the person you're arguing is lost or astray from the path of God then help them find their way, instead of mocking them that they are...

Man_of_Faith

Hello hawk99,

Peace Man of Faith, correct me where I'm wrong, thus far you
do not believe in a defensive war, ritual salat, ritual fast, hajj, the qiblah
being Mecca, the Quran's general interpretation as it is today. You do believe
one can be one/meld/blend with the Rabb, you prefer use of the word
Rabb instead Allah, and you mention/inspired by Jesus more than Muhammad.

Yes, I disbelieve in the rituals. Rabb is the word for God in Arabic. And Jesus has the most comely information available because Muhammad has drowned in a world of lies. Defensive war may be a necessary evil, but Quran does not even speak half as much about it. And no, I do not believe in the general interpretation of Quran, in fact not even in general.

If you even knew how Quran is supposed to be interpreted you would agree with be one with the Rabb too.

I know Jesus more than a person than Muhammad yes. Muhammad is a warlord and warmonger and an unrighteous man according to tradition.

Would you disagree with my statement? Even Quran portrays him as an unrighteous man (in the mainstream interpretation). It was only intellectual honesty.

"Are you studying the abjad and huruf (not the forum member )) sciences"?

Yes, but not in the mainstream science.

Apparently you approve of what you deem to be rudeness on my part, but I am sincere.

I am sincere too thus I choose to reply the same. Normally I am polite not to say "get well" to people even if I think so, but since you insisted on being offensive, although for me I can admit parody was also involved, I was going to write "I thought that was our greeting?".

Get well
Amenuel

Man_of_Faith

Double post.

JavaLatte

Praise be to Allah. I'm glad you agree with that, @ brother hawk99.

@ JavaLatte, Non-believers do not state that they are so they hide (kufr), behind words.
and argue against Allah and his book. It is for believers to call them what they are
thereby exposing them.

I agree.

In this forum there are many kaffirs who deny salat, hajj,
Quran, Allah, Muhammad.

I think this could be true, unfortunately.

I realize that this is a bold statement, but I don't deny that I also tend to think similar.

If this forum is full of the believers, I think we would feel/find wonderful atmosphere (e.g. strong bond of brotherhood), something which is different than current condition.

Peace.

good_logic

Peace All.

Check your heart. It has a function. Your brain is connected to your heart!!!!

Why do I say that? GOD has mentioned the word "heart" at least 110 times in Quran !!!

Many are using their "brains" but are forgetting to use their "hearts?

Who are more evil than those who are reminded of their Lord's proofs, then disregard them, without realizing what they are doing. Consequently, we place shields on their hearts to prevent them from understanding it (the Quran), and deafness in their ears. Thus, no matter what you do to guide them, they can never ever be guided.

We learn from the research that communication between the heart and brain is actually a dynamic, ongoing, two-way dialogue, with each organ continuously influencing the others function.

Scientists also believe that the heart has its own "brain" - an intrinsic nervous system! It's not clear what it does or if it is subservient to the higher brain. But it is clear that it is there. The Qoran emphases the importance of using our hearts (3923; 5716). One such verse states
Is it not time for those who believed to open up their hearts for God's message, and the truth that is revealed herein? They should not be like the followers of previous scriptures whose hearts became hardened with time and, consequently, many of them turned wicked.

Science had found that the heart does impact the brain's thinking capability, and does also feed the brain thoughts and feelings that would control the perspective of the person.
Another Qoran verse states

The true believers are those whose hearts tremble when God is mentioned, and when His revelations are recited to them, their faith is strengthened, and they trust in their Lord.

Our ability to hear and act on the information being sent from the heart, can make the difference in whether we experience life as a series of stressful events or one that's rich in quality.

The heart provides information that can help us eliminate the mental and emotional drain caused by confusion, stress, overwhelm, anxiety and frustration. Hence, the guiding of our heart is so critical (38; 6125; 6411) ! One such verse states

Nothing happens to you except in accordance with God's will. Anyone who believes in God, He will guide his heart. God is fully aware of all things.

Use your hearts folks do not be like these

Some of them listen to you, but we place veils on their hearts to prevent them from understanding, and deafness in their ears. Thus, no matter what kind of proof they see, they cannot believe. Thus, when they come to argue with you, the disbelievers say, "These are tales from the past.

Yes ,Qoran needs the heart and brain.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Invalid777

Excellent.

@ JavaLatte, Non-believers do not state that they are so they hide (kufr), behind words.
and argue against Allah and his book.

To doubt interpretations of the Quran means to argue against Allah and his book? Pagans known as Muslims hijacked the Quran and wrote false interpretations of it, not Allah, unless the men who wrote these interpretations were Allah, then you would have been right.

It is for believers to call them what they are
thereby exposing them.

What is a "believer" to you? The followers of the scum known as Bukhari & Co? Those who follow what they found their parents and society to be doing?

In this forum there are many kaffirs who deny salat, hajj,
Quran, Allah, Muhammad.

I deny pagan rituals falsely labelled as "salat" and "hajj". Rejecting the pagan cult of Islam doesn't make you a kaffir. If there's any sectarian group that deserves to be called kaffirs, It's the followers of Islam.

6/114 "Then is it other than Allah I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed
to you the Book explained in detail?" And those to whom We
gave the Scripture know that it is sent down from your Lord in truth,
so never be among the doubters.

As you seem to have quoted this verse, provide some evidence from the Quran on how to perform the so called physical "salat" ritual and the hajj ritual. Remember Quran is a detail book so don't bother using mental gymnastics. Either you're wrong or the Quran isn't a detailed book as it claims in the above verse. So take a pick hawk.

Sorry Man of Faith, but your disbelieve is apparent and you have no value
for guidance only misguidance.

Your delusion is quite apparent. It's time to get off your high horse.

Man_of_Faith

Hello Invalid777,

While I agree with your stance I think you ought to tone down on the rhetoric. I understand you are as annoyed as I by the falsehood in the World and especially sectarian Islam, but this is not the way. The people are deluded and believe greatly in this and it is not right to have an as sharp tone as this but we have to apply shrewdness rather than volume.

Aim at the irrationality around the religious practices rather than saying how stupid people are. You must focus hard on why it is inappropriate to do whatever the sects have instigated rather than just flaming them high.

No offense, brother.

Be safe
Amenuel

Jafar

Aim at the irrationality around the religious practices rather than saying how stupid people are. You must focus hard on why it is inappropriate to do whatever the sects have instigated rather than just flaming them high.

Agree..

Control the emotion, never get emotional at all.. don't flare up.
There is nothing to lose here.

It is VERY HARD to break through from the repetitive dogma instilled upon us since birth.
Even for me it took years.. before becoming a "Kuffar" (The Unbeliever according to the religious).
I'm happy and glad that the true God had shown me the way to "kuffar", and I never felt insulted upon being labeled as such.

By being a "Kuffar" I have lost all the bad traits that I once possessed..
Such as but not limited to Holier than thou attitude, hatred towards the "Kuffar", attachment to any religion,holy book, holy places, holy ritual etc..

Man_of_Faith

By being a "Kuffar" I have lost all the bad traits that I once possessed..
Such as but not limited to Holier than thou attitude, hatred towards the "Kuffar", attachment to any religion,holy book, holy places, holy ritual etc..

Actually it is usually the people who call you kuffar who are the real kuffar. Kuffar, the word, means deluded, i.e. you are blocked from seeing straight because there is a cover on you. Pity them said Jesus and I do too. It is those who are deluded who suffer and not you.

It is wiser to be a freed being, a person who is complete, free of the shackles of the Flesh by removing the instinctive influence on their behavior. (Pagan = Physical) Worship is misleading caused by the instinct and one has to realize this and avoid it, among other things. It is mentioned on the second line of the ancient Mosaic Decree, i.e. no image (representation) of anything from either Heaven (abstract) or Earth (physical).

Summary summarum, avoid being primitive. Like Jafar mentions in many of his arguments, the pride of ourselves is a great instinctive fallacy and must be dealt with. Do not indulge in vanity; this is what I interpret the third line of the Decree to say beyond the sectarian interpretation of it "no vain talk". The Mosaic Decree deals with measures to prevent satan (the instinct) from expressing itself in you. Each line ambiguously deals with respective parameter of the instinctive drive.

Hierarchical tendency (creating of non-existent separate gods - Be attached to 'Who Is' the Rabb in unity - i.e. be one in God)
Materialism/Lack of abstract perception and too physical (worshiping gods = goods - thou shalt not take an image of anything in Heaven or Earth and worship it)
Pride (no vain talk)
Lack of contemplation/The Sheep Syndrome (thou shalt keep the sabbat, i.e. you shalt contemplate)
Lack of empathy/Selfishness (thou shalt treat thy neighbor as thyself)
Sex drive (thou shalt not have immoral sex)
Anger (thou shalt not kill)
Greed (thou shalt not steal)
Fear (thou shalt not carry false testimony)
Jealousy (thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's property)

In fact the whole Mosaic Decree is about how you should be able to counter the instinctive influence of your Body. Jesus made a very insightful elaboration on the Decree adding

Be attached to 'Who Is' Rabb in unity... with all your heart and all your soul...
- "It is apparent in his teaching"
"It is apparent in his teaching"
"It is apparent in his teaching"
Also care for your enemy.
Do not even look at another woman with desire
Do not even be angry with your brother, settle disputes quickly
"Keep only what you need for the day" (summarized)
Do not swear by God, let your yes be a yes and no be a no.
"It is apparent in his teaching"

(*I could probably have found quotes if I opened the Gospels, but I was lazy, sorry, retained from memory)

Red Siin-Ba-(Ba) (being the root of Sabbat) = to find the means of, occasion of a thing, seek a living, be the cause of, use a thing as a means for, rope, cause, occasion, way, means, road, account, love, relationship/connection/tie.

See also Siin-Ba-Ta = to take rest, cease from work, repose, keep the Sabbath, be confused/perplexed/confused, cut, stop, sleep, unfold, Sabbath-day, week, addicted to sleep, rest/lethargic/motionless

= And as inf. n. of said of a man, (TK,) also signifies The being confounded, or perplexed, unable
to see one's right course, (K, TA,) and being silent, or lowering the eyes, looking towards the
ground. (TA.) = What do you do when you are in a situation as in this one? You are contemplating, trying to figure something out.

A man cunning, i. e. possessing intelligence, or sagacity, or intelligence mixed with craft and forecast;
and excellent in judgment; or very cunning &c.; (K, TA silent, or lowering his eyes, looking towards the
ground; (TA and signifies the same. (K, TA.)

Obviously there are many definitions available, but one has to take what is plausible.

Be safe
Amenuel

hanslan

Salam. I agree with Goodlogic.

The heart tells you something but those covered with veil cannot linked it to the brain. The heart will tell you its feelings like nervousness, anxiety, happiness, lightheartedness etc and when connected to the brain will cause us to think and rationalize something is happening/amiss/etc.

If the heart and brain are not in alignment / somewhat disconnected, signals from the heart can cause anxiety/stress, if the heart continues giving negative signals then the person will require a psychiatrist or worst becomes a lunatic bcause the brain cannot translate what the heart is saying. The brain could be misled by satanic nuances within them.

But if it is just a veil on the heart, i dont think those people go crazy they just become purely selfish in every sense of the word ie they disregard everything else to pursue their lust. In the extreme sense you get people who becomes serial killers, rapist, etc

Just to share my opinion. Peace All.

mmmm

Salam. I agree with Goodlogic.

The heart tells you something but those covered with veil cannot linked it to the brain. The heart will tell you its feelings like nervousness, anxiety, happiness, lightheartedness etc and when connected to the brain will cause us to think and rationalize something is happening/amiss/etc.

If the heart and brain are not in alignment / somewhat disconnected, signals from the heart can cause anxiety/stress, if the heart continues giving negative signals then the person will require a psychiatrist or worst becomes a lunatic bcause the brain cannot translate what the heart is saying. The brain could be misled by satanic nuances within them.

But if it is just a veil on the heart, i dont think those people go crazy they just become purely selfish in every sense of the word ie they disregard everything else to pursue their lust. In the extreme sense you get people who becomes serial killers, rapist, etc

Just to share my opinion. Peace All.

Interesting. Thanks.
Selam.

hawk99

Christ...

Let's not throw the word Kafir, kuffr or anything related to disbelieving

Don't be that kind of muslim that everyone in the west right now hates

Try using the word "Why?" to understand the person you're arguing instead of"Kafir" to justify that you're more muslim than the other

Please if you think that the person you're arguing is lost or astray from the path of God then help them find their way, instead of mocking them that they are...

Peace kamenriderkiki, kufr is an apt description for those who deny, reject as per Quran.

Hello hawk99,

Yes, I disbelieve in the rituals. as much about it. And no, I do not believe in the general
interpretation of Quran, in fact not even in general.

Would you disagree with my statement? Even Quran portrays him as an unrighteous man (in the mainstream interpretation). It was only intellectual honesty.

Yes, but not in the mainstream science.

I am sincere too thus I choose to reply the same. Normally I am polite not to say "get well" to people even if I think so, but since you insisted on being offensive, although for me I can admit parody was also involved, I was going to write "I thought that was our greeting?".

Get well
Amenuel

So you are involved in the abjad and huruf sciences (again not forum member) )
Do you take roots and inject vowels of your choice to make words to fit your opinion since
you do not fully agree with these sciences?

Peace All.

Use your hearts folks do not be like these

Some of them listen to you, but we place veils on their hearts to prevent them from understanding, and deafness in their ears. Thus, no matter what kind of proof they see, they cannot believe. Thus, when they come to argue with you, the disbelievers say, "These are tales from the past.

Yes ,Qoran needs the heart and brain.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

I agree @good logic, may I add

So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast to Islam;
and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted
as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement
upon those who do not believe.

Pagans known as Muslims hijacked the Quran and wrote false interpretations What is a "believer" to you? The followers of the scum
I deny pagan rituals falsely labelled as "salat" and "hajj". Rejecting the pagan cult of Islam doesn't make you a kaffir. If there's any sectarian group that deserves to be called kaffirs, It's the followers of Islam.

the Quran isn't a detailed book as it claims in the above verse.

nope As your name clearly states, what you say is Invalid.

Praise be to Allah. I'm glad you agree with that, @ brother hawk99.

If this forum is full of the believers, I think we would feel/find wonderful
atmosphere (e.g. strong bond of brotherhood), something which is
different than current condition.

This is my point exactly! The shaytayn dislikes peace (islam) so he sends
his human agents most of them being unaware of their role assigned to them
to disrupt the peace in many ways using arguments such as wordplay, his-story,
nitpicking, etc.,

I realize that this is a bold statement,

Yes drawing the line between belief and kufr is indeed bold, but I think
it has become necessary to help the forum from becoming too negative
to the point of abandonment by members. Positive light should be shown on
Islam and the prophet Muhammad and for the believers not to stand by and watch
Islam bashed by non-believers.

God bless

peace

Invalid777

nope As your name clearly states, what you say is Invalid.

A pathetic attempt in evading my question and even cutting my sentence down and quote it to make it look like I claimed the Quran isn't a detailed book. Quite typical from a person who upholds pagan rituals and falsely ascribes them to Allah and his revelation. You showed your true colours hawk.

I will repeat myself one last time.

6/114 "Then is it other than Allah I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed
to you the Book explained in detail?" And those to whom We
gave the Scripture know that it is sent down from your Lord in truth,
so never be among the doubters.

As you seem to have quoted this verse, provide some evidence from the Quran on how to perform the so called physical "salat" ritual and the hajj ritual. Remember Quran is a detailed book so don't bother with mental gymnastics. Either you're wrong or the Quran isn't a detailed book as it claims in the above verse. So take a pick hawk.

Invalid777

Hello Invalid777,

While I agree with your stance I think you ought to tone down on the rhetoric. I understand you are as annoyed as I by the falsehood in the World and especially sectarian Islam, but this is not the way. The people are deluded and believe greatly in this and it is not right to have an as sharp tone as this but we have to apply shrewdness rather than volume.

Aim at the irrationality around the religious practices rather than saying how stupid people are. You must focus hard on why it is inappropriate to do whatever the sects have instigated rather than just flaming them high.

No offense, brother.

Be safe
Amenuel

Though I agree with you, lying down and letting falsehood stump on you isn't a good idea. Liars need to be challenged and exposed. Yes, I do need to tone down. I'm not the best at controlling my temper and have over the past few days become impatient with the pagan cult of Islam and sectarianism. I will continue to do my best in controlling it though.

Peace.

Man_of_Faith

Hello Invalid777,

I did not say we should not act, but we need to embrace constructive criticism with less jumping onto our subjects. I can/could identify myself in my earlier me with you as I had problems with an ease of getting upset by people using provocative language. That is something you will have to focus on improving as I did. I was also impatient exposing the fabricated Islam religion, but nowadays I take it one step at a time.

Islam as a sect is ruining many lives and they lose focus on what is really important in life.

Offensive methods will not be effective and only stir up a we versus them mentality and give group identity which is not exactly the purpose. Rather it is better to advertise the alternative in a light of rationality plus constructively exposing flaws in the traditional interpretation, much like I am doing, with limited belittling. Those who fabricated today's Islam are not alive today and the people who follow it are actually victims, i.e. they are victimized and deluded and ought hence to be pitied and helped. It is not utterly their fault for falling prey as it is their limited transcendence to be able to seek outside the box of their perception causes them to really believe this is really God's word which it also is albeit with a bogus interpretation of them.

Many have realized the interpretation contains errors, but they have not come to see that it is worse than they believe and they have never imagined that it is completely out of precision even portraying a different message and model of spirituality. Because people cannot in their world believe it is as bad then they also never proceed exposing the greater falsehood and stay on thinking it is only individual words that are wrong when actually not even grammar knowledge is accurate. They have too much faith in renowned scholars and an etymology which is utterly dubious. They underestimate the evil forces of corruption.

The ancient interpreters were zeroes, they did not even know one basic word that does not mean God which is Allah. Allah means 'Who Is' which is a unity including the Rabb and every person "Who Is", an esoteric symbiosis. Functionality-wise it works very much like the 'Borg' of 'Star Trek' if you ever watched that science-fiction story. Your God is called Rabb in Arabic and that is the personal address beyond the Allah unity which may include you unless you are lifeless (al-mowt). Only if you are 'Who Is' you are 'Such Who Is'. Better be alive, not lifeless.

In ways Allah represents God, but it is never an address of someone but always an adjectival word. If you transcend then you are 'as Such Who Is'. ALLAH be such Such Who/Which/That (form of third person pronoun).

The first phrase of Quran is our ulterior goal in life "b esm Allah alrahman alraheem" "With/In a condition 'That Is' totally complete". You are to be completed, simply said. The path towards that is not through the World but the roots should be in another world. The Body is just a trap and one must cut off from its instinctive drive. That is the major message of Quran. CUT OFF FROM ITS INSTINCTIVE DRIVE, symbolized by the word Satan in the Semitic languages.

Be safe
Amenuel

hawk99

Even for me it took years.. before becoming a "Kuffar" (The Unbeliever according to the religious).
I'm happy and glad that the true God had shown me the way to "kuffar", and I never felt insulted upon being labeled as such.

By being a "Kuffar" I have lost all the bad traits that I once possessed..
Such as but not limited to Holier than thou attitude, hatred towards the "Kuffar", attachment to any religion,holy book, holy places, holy ritual etc..

Respect @ Jafar, Man of Faith, I appreciate your candor and honesty,
others here who possess the qualities of disbelief need to acknowledge their status
as kuffar as you have, this will make discussions easier to grasp based on perspective
and not some false claim of seeker, searcher, using other words for salat or questions
intended stifle positivity thereby increasing negativity. Personally I have no
problems with dis-belief, non-believers are part of the balance of creation
and are absolutely necessary part of creation.

@ Man of faith So you are involved in the abjad and huruf sciences (again not forum member) )
Do you take roots and inject vowels of your choice to make words to fit your opinion since
you do not fully agree with these sciences?

P.S. I'm a believer not a sectarian

God bless