quran compared to hajji rules
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there is a verse in the quran stating take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer,
surah 395-97and another verse
surah 2124-129why is everyone praying outside?
has anyone completed the hajj and done so correctly in the last 100 years?
also is this way we have to spend so many days in mecca to get our chance to pray? and is this way we circle the kabba?
it seems like a patience thing and something people are naturally inclined to do if waiting for somethingany views on who has been preventing us from taking the station of Abraham as a place of prayer?
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Your quoted translation may not necessarily be correct.
I recommend
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html396 Indeed, the first1 house/shelter placed/set-down2 for mankind was the one with/in/by/at bakka3 blessed and a guidance for the beings.
397 In it clear signs/evidences, the stance/position/status4 of Abraham, and whoever entered it was securing. And for God upon mankind (is) the HaJJ (at/of) the house/shelter, whoever is able to make a way to5 it, and whoever conceals/rejects then truly God has no need of the beings.2125 And when We made the house/shelter (bayt) a place of return/filling/reward for mankind and a security, and take (to yourselves) from the position/status of Abraham a place/time of blessing/bonding, and We made a convenant to Abraham and Ishmael that "You (both) purify My house/shelter (bayt) for those who go among/about, and stay/devote, and incline and honour/acknowledge."
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Salam All
I personally don't understand Hajj and its requirements from the Quran. Maybe I am stupid, but my simple approach is, if I honestly don't understand it i don't have to do it. The Creator will forgive me because the knowledge has not been taught to me clearly for me to follow it. The Hajj as it is practiced now appears more like a pagan ritual than anything else, so I am leaving it. Anyway it is an option for those who have found the way.
Peace All.
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I personally don't understand Hajj and its requirements from the Quran.
You are in luck, there is a Quran based summary at the end of the article http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html
AFTER reading the summary list of points, I'd be interested to know what specifically you do not understand or disagree with. This goes for others too.
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You are in luck, there is a Quran based summary at the end of the article http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html
AFTER reading the summary list of points, I'd be interested to know what specifically you do not understand or disagree with. This goes for others too.
Salam Wakas. As an individual I don't see the implication on me from a religious stand point. The event requires an organiser and the only place I see that is available for open debate is in the net. If it is in the internet, all the other requirements becomes irrelevant ie why would I slaughter animals, why would it be held during the 4 months only? why cut my hair etc. It needs to be an organised event, that is why Abraham was ordered to operationalise it. Base on current world settings are there any place suitable? Maybe Israel and Palestine? Mecca perhaps - and tell them that kissing the black stone is kissing a symbolic head coming out of a vagina?
Or has it been practiced in history like in Greece or maybe currently in some scientific/political/socio events where it is organized, debates takes place in some form, lectures are conducted, information and research findings are shared, economic activities are carried out, catering are also provided - some eat freely and some pay, maybe there are salons/spa for people to pamper themselves and cut their hair. And topics of interest are wide ranging.
To think about it, hajj is a conference of sorts to spread knowledge and develop the human race further but nothing religious except the one Creator part. In this instance I tend to agree.
Peace All.
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peace hanslan,
Thanks for the reply but in it you seem to have mixed things into it not in the summary list of the article I linked to, thus since I cannot be sure you read it I prefer not to comment on what you said. I say this in case you were expecting me to comment.
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Salam All
I personally don't understand Hajj and its requirements from the Quran. Maybe I am stupid, but my simple approach is, if I honestly don't understand it i don't have to do it. The Creator will forgive me because the knowledge has not been taught to me clearly for me to follow it. The Hajj as it is practiced now appears more like a pagan ritual than anything else, so I am leaving it. Anyway it is an option for those who have found the way.
Peace All.
no dude it says in the quran it's a duty men owe to ALLAH,
i'm in debt because i didn't do hajj, hajj is a duty no excuses in duty. -
there is a verse in the quran stating take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer,
surah 395-97and another verse
surah 2124-129why is everyone praying outside?
has anyone completed the hajj and done so correctly in the last 100 years?
also is this way we have to spend so many days in mecca to get our chance to pray? and is this way we circle the kabba?
it seems like a patience thing and something people are naturally inclined to do if waiting for somethingany views on who has been preventing us from taking the station of Abraham as a place of prayer?
I did the Sunnis Hajj ritual quite few times, most of the time accompanying family member.
To be truly honest, I NEVER personally felt 'enlightened' or 'inspired' afterwards.The more I pondered about it, the more I realized that it's a "pagan tradition".
Which is "Ok" and "No Problem"..
I see it in the same manner as other "Pagan Tradition" such as Christmas, Halloween, Celebrating Birthday etc.. etc..
You want me to celebrate those as well.. fine I will join your celebration... kind of attitudeAnd I personally have no problem on doing the Hajj ritual again, if a family member need my accompaniment.
I'll do it for "their sake" and not because I personally compelled to do so, or the ritual there brings any 'spiritual enlightenment' for me.But asserting that The True God DEMANDS ALL human on earth to come to that exact spot on earth and do the same "pagan ritual", that is TOO MUCH.
My conscience furtherly troubled, especially after the amount of DEATHS that has happened on the current year Hajj season.
And how the people there truly believed that those who DIED has died as "Martyr" (Shahid) and earn a special place in Heaven.
As such those who (should be) responsible to such deadly disaster can easily get away while still reaping the 'financial and political benefits' from such "Pagan Ritual".I am now convinced that the verse which state that the "True God" demands the Hajj ritual in Mecca is not really coming from the True God a.k.a Fake. The verse might be injected there (or at least the meanings was twisted) by somebody who benefited either financially or politically through maintaining such pagan Ritual in Mecca.
Human vested interest, my life experience has witnessed such phenomenon many times..
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I did the Sunnis Hajj ritual quite few times, most of the time accompanying family member.
To be truly honest, I NEVER personally felt 'enlightened' or 'inspired' afterwards.I performed the pagan rituals at Mecca with my parents. I felt NO difference. In fact I NEVER felt any difference when performing the pagan salat, while facing that stupid stone cube in Mecca. It never stopped me from committing evil. I used to look down at infidels, think paradise was reserved for us(members of the cult of Islam). You see Islam is a supremacist religion no different than Judaism. In the Talmud, Goys are the non-Jews. The Goys will burn in hell forever and paradise is reserved for Jews only. A Goy in the mind of a Jew is no different than a kuffar in the mind of a Muslim. It is this supremacists mindset that allows Jews in Israel to murder fellow humans in Gaza and Muslims to kill kuffars and even each other. Sharia is religious apartheid. What kind of God would want an apartheid?
Since becoming a kaffir(a denier of the cult of Islam), I feel healthier than ever. I see fellow humans as HUMANS and not kuffar who will burn in hell forever. I have become a human and not an arrogant, self-righteous religious scumbag. I find it easier to help fellow humans and give them a REAL smile whereas before, those where burdens for me and my smiles were fake. I use my brain and heart GOD gifted me with.
The more I pondered about it, the more I realized that it's a "pagan tradition".
While performing these pagan rituals, I felt uncomfortable deep inside but ignored and kept trying to destroy it because in Islam, these are the whispers of the devil. You will burn in hell forever if you don't pray 5 times a day.
Which is "Ok" and "No Problem"..
It's not ok to me.
I see it in the same manner as other "Pagan Tradition" such as Christmas, Halloween, Celebrating Birthday etc.. etc..
There is no such thing as a holy day. Christmas, Eid, Halloween, Easter are all man-made pagan days. They provide people with the illusion of hapiness. In other words, it feeds their ego.
You want me to celebrate those as well.. fine I will join your celebration... kind of attitude And I personally have no problem on doing the Hajj ritual again, if a family member need my accompaniment.
I'll do it for "their sake" and not because I personally compelled to do so, or the ritual there brings any 'spiritual enlightenment' for me.I refuse to. I will not support anyone in their pagan rituals.
But asserting that The True God DEMANDS ALL human on earth to come to that exact spot on earth and do the same "pagan ritual", that is TOO MUCH.
The Source of Knowledge would Never approve idol worship. Muslims are conditioned from childhood that the stone cube and the forgiving black stone in Mecca is not worshiped but only faced and kissed. They are in complete denial that they do in fact worship creation. A cube they built with their own hands.
Does GOD really require the assistance of his own creation( a STONE cube) in order for his creation to worship him? NO! There are no intermediaries between you and your Creator, NO sticks, stones or humans. Making that connection is salat. The pagans who hijacked the Quran could not grasp the true meaning of salat and turned into a braindead, robotic ritual while worshiping a stone cube and kissing a stone to get their sins forgiven. Lost souls are not able to make salat for they do not even know themselves. Self-realization is the first step. You cannot perform salat without it.
To outsiders(kuffar), Mecca is clear idol worship.
My conscience furtherly troubled, especially after the amount of DEATHS that has happened on the current year Hajj season.
And how the people there truly believed that those who DIED has died as "Martyr" (Shahid) and earn a special place in Heaven.
As such those who (should be) responsible to such deadly disaster can easily get away while still reaping the 'financial and political benefits' from such "Pagan Ritual".The hadith books they follow teaches such stuff. Anyone who dies while in a holy land and performing these rituals goes straight to heaven. It is lies and brainwashing.
The very Quran they falsely claim to follow speaks of them.
"In Falsehood will they be Until, when death comes to one of them, he says "my Lord! send me back!,"(2399)I am now convinced that the verse which state that the "True God" demands the Hajj ritual in Mecca is not really coming from the True God a.k.a Fake. The verse might be injected there (or at least the meanings was twisted) by somebody who benefited either financially or politically through maintaining such pagan Ritual in Mecca.
Human vested interest, my life experience has witnessed such phenomenon many times..Those are false interpretations like 56 by the cult of Islam when it hijacked the Quran and spread false interpretations. The True God would never tell people to wash limbs in order to perform salat. What about the people born without limbs? GOD gives a STEP-BY-STEP guidance on how to perform a nameless cleaning ritual( Muslims falsely label it as wudu) that is to be made before salat but NO such detail is given for the physical salat itself. Did GOD forget to address this issue? Does GOD forget?NO! Either Bukhari had to correct GOD and explain to humanity how to perform the physical salat and give a name to the nameless cleaning ritual or these are all false interpretations.
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Peace Invalid.
This is a coincidence?
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kXMh_6BSNIWhat do you think?
GOD bless you.
Peace -
I basically agree with what Invalid777 says.
The concept of a holy Mecca or Jerusalem is against statute number two in the Mosaic Decree. But that one both Jews and Muslims have done away with because they follow man-made traditions that the scholars and clerics invented for them. The "make no image of anything from either Heaven or Earth" is not even mentioned in the Pagan interpretation of Quran, because that was probably inconvenient for the scholars and clerics anyway, or rather it was irrelevant because they did not uphold it anyway and the previous original interpreted version which Moses received was made a mockery of.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Peace Wakas.
I have not said it is true or false. I asked "what do you think". Not you Wakas in particular( Anyone).
The Scientist have the tools. I have not seen it refuted yet?
I verified the Qoran verse. That is true.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Invalid.
This is a coincidence?
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kXMh_6BSNIWhat do you think?
GOD bless you.
PeacePeace good logic
Wakas got to you before me but I honestly don't buy any Islamic propaganda like the video above. I myself used to believe in that. There is not a shred of evidence in Quran that Mecca is a holy place and contains a stone cube and a forgiving black stone. Mecca is clear idolworship and a complete fraud. I reject Mecca because I don't believe in a holy place.
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I basically agree with what Invalid777 says.
The concept of a holy Mecca or Jerusalem is against statute number two in the Mosaic Decree. But that one both Jews and Muslims have done away with because they follow man-made traditions that the scholars and clerics invented for them. The "make no image of anything from either Heaven or Earth" is not even mentioned in the Pagan interpretation of Quran, because that was probably inconvenient for the scholars and clerics anyway, or rather it was irrelevant because they did not uphold it anyway and the previous original interpreted version which Moses received was made a mockery of.
Be safe
Amenuelbravo
