The Forbidden Tree, what kind of thing is or was it?
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In the name of God,
May the Peace be with you,
The story of Adam and Eve really sounds interesting to me. Especially the Tree/Fruit that was Forbidden to eat from.
I am 22 and my Knowledge is still just weak or even not there at all since i am a beginner/rookie in studying and knowing the Word of God.
But you, maybe you are that old guy/woman who learned the language, and pondered many years and years about what the meaning of this story can mean. Could you then please share your Knowledge with us?
Anyways, i would like to hear from u.
May my Lord increase my Knowledge.
Peace,
And please stay on topic..
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Useful starting points perhaps.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12703.msg102151#msg102151
I actually reflected on the story of "adam" recently, and I began to see connections with humans becoming the khalif/successor on earth (i.e. the evolutionary peak, and the transition from our previous ancestor to a human being and all that comes with it free choice, responsibility, speech, communication, power, weakness, God-awareness, revelation, beginning of the test and its rules etc). I believe this important transition phase is strongly represented in the story of "adam", or at least, this is my working hypothesis at the present time.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8966.msg31941#msg31941
I'm not sure what adam felt in the garden was akin to nudity, but it certainly was to one of embarrasment. You see, in my opinion, adam had become aware that they were naked before God, i.e. all of their thoughts and deeds were clearly apparent to God. God had no problem with adam being naked from the fore, nor did God command adam to cover. When adam had done a wrong against itself, it tried to cover this deed, it did not want to be naked before God, but God could see adam's fault. God then said that the best garment was that of righteousness. Thus adam should cover itself with the goodness that God has called for. This was best.
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Peace OussamaNL,
But what could be the tree and the fruit is what i actually want to know before pondering further.
Personally, I try to not focus on the mutashabihat (multiple-meaning) verses of the Quran. This reminds me of a quranic verse.
Quran 37 He is the One who sent down to you the book, from which there are definite signs; they are the essence of the book; and others, which are multiple-meaning. As for those who have disease in their hearts, eager to cause confusion and eager to derive their interpretation, they will follow what is multiple-meaning from it. But none knows their meaning except God and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say, "We acknowledge it, all is from our Lord." None will remember except the people of intellect.
In my view, islam is a practical deen (way of life). Have you read the parable of the raft? If you haven't read it, I highly recommend reading it.
http//findingyoursoul.com/2012/11/the-parable-of-the-raft/
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Does the Qur'an mention at all the FRUIT of the tree?. I do not think so. Does it say they were orderednot to EAT, I do not thin so. They were orderderd to to come near it,in the same way that people ar told not come near fahisha.
If we substitute the bibe words for the Qur'an then we are interreting the Bible, noot the Qur'an.
Salaam
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Does the Qur'an mention at all the FRUIT of the tree?. I do not think so. Does it say they were orderednot to EAT, I do not thin so. They were orderderd to to come near it,in the same way that people ar told not come near fahisha.
If we substitute the bibe words for the Qur'an then we are interreting the Bible, noot the Qur'an.
Salaam
May the Peace be with you.
I have no idea, i am still a beginner.
Forgive me if i used the wrong words.
Peace.
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Peace OussamaNL,
Personally, I try to not focus on the mutashabihat (multiple-meaning) verses of the Quran. This reminds me of a quranic verse.
Quran 37 He is the One who sent down to you the book, from which there are definite signs; they are the essence of the book; and others, which are multiple-meaning. As for those who have disease in their hearts, eager to cause confusion and eager to derive their interpretation, they will follow what is multiple-meaning from it. But none knows their meaning except God and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say, "We acknowledge it, all is from our Lord." None will remember except the people of intellect.
In my view, islam is a practical deen (way of life). Have you read the parable of the raft? If you haven't read it, I highly recommend reading it.
http//findingyoursoul.com/2012/11/the-parable-of-the-raft/
Parable of the Raft?
What does the word Raft mean? What language is it?
Further more i seek Knowledge. My intention is not to seek any discussions.
So yeah.
Let me read the link.
Peace.
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Peace OussamaNL,
Personally, I try to not focus on the mutashabihat (multiple-meaning) verses of the Quran. This reminds me of a quranic verse.
Quran 37 He is the One who sent down to you the book, from which there are definite signs; they are the essence of the book; and others, which are multiple-meaning. As for those who have disease in their hearts, eager to cause confusion and eager to derive their interpretation, they will follow what is multiple-meaning from it. But none knows their meaning except God and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say, "We acknowledge it, all is from our Lord." None will remember except the people of intellect.
In my view, islam is a practical deen (way of life). Have you read the parable of the raft? If you haven't read it, I highly recommend reading it.
http//findingyoursoul.com/2012/11/the-parable-of-the-raft/
Wise parable.
But now back to the Tree 0.
Peace.
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May the Peace be with you.
I have no idea, i am still a beginner.
Forgive me if i used the wrong words.
Peace.
No, that is ok. No wrong words, only may be you can look up the passages that speak about th tree and either read them yourself or quote them so that we can analyse and see if the translation matches indeed the original and whethr they inject an interpretation, whether that intpretation males sense or can be the onlly one, etc.
Salaam
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"As for you, Adam, dwell with your wife in Paradise, and eat therefrom as you please, but do not approach this one tree, lest you fall in sin."
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I have been thinking a lot about the tree lately.
That is right, it says no te get near that tree.It doesnot sea no to eat from it or its fruit. Not to get near it and become of he wrong doers.
I do notthink that at any time it says anything about eating from it or that it bears fruit.
You are right
20120 Then whispered to him Shaitaan, he said, "O Adam! Shall I direct you to (the) tree (of) the Eternity and a kingdom not (that will) deteriorate?"
The devil is not telling them to eat anything.722-So he made both of them fall by deception. Then when they both tasted the tree, became apparent to both of them their shame, and they began (to) fasten over themselves from (the) leaves (of) the Garden. And called them both their Lord, "Did not I forbid you both from this tree and say to both of you, that Shaitaan (is) to both of you an open enemy?"
When I read the above verse I wonder why they didn't use the leaves of that specific tree to cover themselves. But then when I think of that so called tree of eternity one thing that comes to my mind is diet. I mean we get all sorts of stuffs from trees including medications, alcohol, marijuana, heroine, etc.
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This Moroccan friend of mine who is so studious of the language of the Qur'an put forward the idea that the tree might be a linneage tree.
As we know from the Qur'an itself adam were not the only humans who were on earth, and also prehistory tells us of the many kinds of humanoids, like the neanderthal and cromagnon. So he says that it was a linneage that humans should avoid because in whatver way it would endanger the species.
Then it comes to mind that there is some neanderthal mixing in human genetics, but from the look of it, the bearing of children of neanderthal by cromagnon women was killing for the latter, because of the size of the head and other difficulties. So for the humans it spelt doom.
The thing is that in the biblical narration of it all hapens as it were in a very short time, like it was an isolated event, but the "event", the permanence in the garden, the tempting, the falling and the realisation of the harm may have been developed over many years. There is nothing, that I remember, where it says anything like "and next day...". And it is very common that the Qur'an dispatches in a few words things that happen over centuries.
The word used in the Qur'an to say that they tasted from he tree is dhaaqa, root dh-w-q, which is used frequenty in the Qur'an in the sense of "experience", "feel", "try", many times to say that people will taste the punishment, the fire of damnation, the consequences of their deeds... They verify the truth of what they were previously warned.
When they did not follow the instructions to keep away from that tree, both sexes, they verified by themselves those ills they were warned of... to no avail, since it was too late.
That tree may have been a species of humans who had a much longer lifespan, so they thought that interbreeding with them they might live "unending" lives, or become less prone to illness...
The dual used for adam and mate may point to the fact that it was as bad to try for the male as for the female.
There is no mention of eating anything at all, but of trying something and finding out it did not do them any good.
Salaam
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As far as I remember (please correct me, if I am wrong) - There was no mention (in the Quran) version of Allah (swt) issueing the threat of death, for violating the rule. Was there still the promise made by shaytan of "Knowledge"?
Kind of off topic, but that always particularly bothered me in the Biblical verison God said they would DIE, if they ate it. Satan said they would be as smart as God. They ate it. They didn't die, they got smarter (more aware).
I always wondered two things
(1) if it was an edible, was it "mind expanding/altering"? Similar to the "religious" experiences had by shamans using peyote, mushrooms, datura, iboga, or any of the other "sacred" plants?
(2) if the "ancient alien" believers (no, I'm not one) are correct, does it mean one being attempted to design us as completely mindless drones/slaves and another being totally screwed up the operation by slipping in the ability to reason and make our own determinations on morality? -
May the Peace be with you.
I do not even know the Language proper.
I am really pondering what the meaning could be of the "Tree".
Furthermore i reject everything that is non-quranic in this matter. So forgive me if i used to wrong words. Since it's also the biblical story that is still in my mind.
May my Lord increase my Knowledge. I should learn the Language, what the words mean before pondering upon it.
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The qurnic n. ?grh (ه is usually understood/translated as tree, or plant. To my scrutiny, the term derives from the Arabian/?emitic verbal-root ?gr and thus might denote anything that stems/springs up andor discharges/branches out For instance, i personally understand in 5672 as its stem, the 'it' being fire.
This is my current understanding, ALLH is (always) best acquainted.
Slm
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The qurnic n. ?grh (ه is usually understood/translated as tree, or plant. To my scrutiny, the term derives from the Arabian/?emitic verbal-root ?gr and thus might denote anything that stems/springs up andor discharges/branches out For instance, i personally understand in 5672 as its stem, the 'it' being fire.
This is my current understanding, ALLH is (always) best acquainted.
Slm
That's a lot closer to the right answer for sure.
I need to study the roots of these words.
Thank you for sharing your studies about this word.
Now it makes much more sense.
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peace TAL, reel,
Thank you for providing the verses, that was helpful.
It seems to me that the answer is contained therein (highlights mine). I will quote them below
"As for you, Adam, dwell with your wife in Paradise, and eat from wherever you both please, but do not approach this one tree, lest you be of the wrongdoers."
20120 Then whispered to him Shaitaan, he said, "O Adam! Shall I direct you to (the) tree (of) the Eternity and a kingdom that will not test/deteriorate?"
722-So he directed both of them by deception. Then when they both experienced/tasted the tree, became apparent to both of them their shame, and they began (to) fasten over themselves from (the) leaves (of) the Garden. And called them both their Lord, "Did not I forbid you both from this tree and say to both of you, that Shaitaan (is) to both of you an open enemy?"
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Peace Wakas and everyone,
It seems to me that the answer is contained therein (highlights mine). I will quote them below
"As for you, Adam, dwell with your wife in Paradise, and eat from wherever you both please, but do not approach this one tree, lest you be of the wrongdoers."
20120 Then whispered to him Shaitaan, he said, "O Adam! Shall I direct you to (the) tree (of) the Eternity and a kingdom that will not test/deteriorate?"
From my understanding of the Quran, Adam and his wife were immortal and the kingdom (paradise/garden) they lived in was eternal/everlasting. But then Iblis deceived them and promised them immortality and eternal life. But the promise of Iblis was false. Because they were already immortal and they were already living in an eternal kingdom (paradise/garden). So Iblis promised them the opposite of what was true/real. Also, the Quran seems to suggest that when they experienced the tree, their bodies became apparent to them, and their sin brought them out of the eternal paradise/garden (a spiritual state of existence) and down to a temporary life on earth (a material state of existence). It seems that Iblis's aim/objective is to make us believe that there is nothing beyond this earthly life (i.e. no afterlife). Also, it seems that the story of Adam contains a lesson of obedience regarding God's laws/commandments. Thus, it seems that obedience is the key to immortality and eternal life.
