THE TRUE QURANIC SHAHADA
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I bear witness that there should be no gods but God and that Muhammad, the messenger of God, is true!!!
"How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Messenger was true..."
Muhammad was a messenger. He isn't one now. Mentioning him next to God violates 3945 and is tantamount to setting up partners ("shirk." Furthermore You would be making a distinction among the messengers which is also forbidden.
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Peace All.
The issue for me is the relationship with the Lord.GOD Alone is the reason and the purpose for our service/worship/devotion.....
The Deen should be devoted to GOD ALONE..
Whether we are connecting with GOD, commemorating GOD, talking to GOD...etc. GOD ALONE should be involved and no one else!!!!
Our relationship with GOD is private and personal. No other entity is involved. A direct line to the creator is always open. No intermediary.
So ,whenever you mention your Lord, mention Him Alone.
GOD bless .
Peace. -
The true and most correct Shahada is
"I testify that Jafar is the most handsome guy on the planet.. ever"Those who didn't testify as such is a kuffar, they will suffer eternal damnation in hell and their blood is halal to be shed..
Including myself..
My own Shahada goes like
"I testify that I AM the most handsome guy on the planet.. ever"Which clearly establish myself as one of the most narcissistic guy on the planet..
(competing with Muhammad, assuming it's true that he did ordered his follower with Shahada)I fairly sure the concept of shahada is an innovation. There's a thread discussing the issue here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605645.0
Of course it is... what would Muhammad's Shahada sounds like?
A blatant copy paste from Judaism's Shema and Christian's Apostolic Creed..
Judaism has one so does christian we should have one too for our new religion... kind of thinking...
But well.. every religion need to have one right? -
I bear witness that there is no deity besides God, who is without partner. period.
And i believe in Gods signs. Adam, Idris (Enoch), Nuh (Noah), Hud (Heber), Salih (Methusaleh), Lut (Lot), Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismail (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Yaqub (Jacob), Yusuf (Joseph), Shu?aib (Jethro), Ayyub (Job), Dhulkifl (Ezekiel), Musa (Moses), Harun (Aaron), Dawud (David), Sulayman (Solomon), Ilias (Elias), Alyasa (Elisha), Yunus (Jonah), Zakariya (Zachariah), Yahya (John the Baptist), Isa (Jesus) and Muhammad, are Gods messengers.
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Why a shahada must be a set formula, a formula set in concrete.
What is a shahada, any shahada. Attesting to what we do know by ourselves, stating what we know. Anything can be a shahada if we testify with truth.
So a qura'nic shahada might be anything that you attest and which is underwritten by Qur'an.
Aur'anic shahadas can be in the thousands, provided we atest to something of the Qur'an and that we know to be true by ourselves.
It is not a matter of whether the formula is correct or not, it is a matter whether we do know that which we are attesting to.
If you do not by yourself, but still cling to it you can always attest that I believe this and that, whatever you believe in.
If you are convinced you know that mYhammad is God's sent and prophet, why wouldn't you attest to it? If I am convinced that I know that maryam and 3isa are prophets,why shouldn't I attesto to it. In fact I have done that many times while arguing with other people.
Formulas for testifying containing what must be testified to seem like a cheat. But on the other hand setting exclusions and limits to what a person can attest to is selfimposing and overstepping our own attributions.
Haven't we watched enough courtroom thrillers and that kind of thing to still not know what is a valid testimony and what is not?
Salaam
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I see that most of you are rebels and NOT reformers or agents of reconciliation. Reconcile the Muslims and reconcile between yourselves as Quranist Muslims
49.10. The believers are but brothers, so make peace between your brothers; and keep from disobedience to God in reverence for Him and piety (particularly in your duties toward one another as brothers), so that you may be shown mercy (granted a good, virtuous life in the world as individuals and as a community, and eternal happiness in the Hereafter).
Our unifying testimony!
I bear witness that there should be no gods but/if not God and that Muhammad, the messenger of God, is true!!!
There is no god but/if not He That is the TESTIMONY of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice.There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise. (Surah Al-Imran, 1
How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore TESTIMONY that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust. (Surah Al-Imran, 86)
Salam
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Peace As-Salaatayn.
We know Mohammed was the messenger . There is no issue there.
But GOD Alone is sufficient for the deen. Devoting the religion to GOD Alone means no mention of any "partnership" with Him.
When GOD Alone is mentioned we are happy. No need to mention Mohammed or any other...in partnership ,( Shirk),
Look, in Qoran is by itself complete.
318
God bears witness that there is no god except He, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge. Truthfully and equitably, He is the absolute god; there is no god but He, the Almighty, Most Wise.Besides,why say shahada the way traditional Islam instructs? is not the way to GOD direct?Where does the Qoran give such instruction?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
The Muhammadan AKA Islamic testimony is a fabrication. As expected, you need to recite some testimony to join a gang. The Islamic gang requires you to recite the Islamic gang testimony. Islam is a gang. A gang operating in the name of some God called Allah sitting on a throne above the cube idol in Mecca. Of course, Allah is nothing without the prophet, Muammad ibn `Abd Allh. Allah and his right-hand man Muhammad must be mentioned together.
The true and most correct Shahada is
"I testify that Jafar is the most handsome guy on the planet.. ever"Those who didn't testify as such is a kuffar, they will suffer eternal damnation in hell and their blood is halal to be shed..
Including myself..
My own Shahada goes like
"I testify that I AM the most handsome guy on the planet.. ever"Which clearly establish myself as one of the most narcissistic guy on the planet..
(competing with Muhammad, assuming it's true that he did ordered his follower with Shahada)Of course it is... what would Muhammad's Shahada sounds like?
A blatant copy paste from Judaism's Shema and Christian's Apostolic Creed..
Judaism has one so does christian we should have one too for our new religion... kind of thinking...
But well.. every religion need to have one right?rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
bravo
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Why a shahada must be a set formula, a formula set in concrete.
What is a shahada, any shahada. Attesting to what we do know by ourselves, stating what we know. Anything can be a shahada if we testify with truth.
So a qura'nic shahada might be anything that you attest and which is underwritten by Qur'an.
Aur'anic shahadas can be in the thousands, provided we atest to something of the Qur'an and that we know to be true by ourselves.
It is not a matter of whether the formula is correct or not, it is a matter whether we do know that which we are attesting to.
If you do not by yourself, but still cling to it you can always attest that I believe this and that, whatever you believe in.
If you are convinced you know that mYhammad is God's sent and prophet, why wouldn't you attest to it? If I am convinced that I know that maryam and 3isa are prophets,why shouldn't I attesto to it. In fact I have done that many times while arguing with other people.
Formulas for testifying containing what must be testified to seem like a cheat. But on the other hand setting exclusions and limits to what a person can attest to is selfimposing and overstepping our own attributions.
Haven't we watched enough courtroom thrillers and that kind of thing to still not know what is a valid testimony and what is not?
Salaam
Salaam,
Some of my family (me also a couple of months) worked for a really good boss.
He was so good for them (and me), they cheated and stole from him almost on daily basis ( I did also some but innocent ones, only worth a finger cut of, not the whole hand) but he still was good for them and me, he never got angry and while he knew everything about our stealing and cheating he did like he did not know.
Do you know how everyone speaks about him now?
They all have declared more then once, that the only thing left for him to go to paradise was just to say "ashadoe an la ilaha illa Allah, wa ashadoe anna Muhammadan rasoelu Allah".
They really can not find a single fault in him, they only speak in the best words about him, but unlucky for the poor boss he is still doomed to go to hell, because of not uttering this magic formula.btw don't feel sad for the poor boss.
The poor boss sold his company exactly at the best time, just a couple of days after he sold his company the whole branch began to collapse.Salaam,
Bender -
Our unifying testimony!
I bear witness that there should be no gods but/if not God and that Muhammad, the messenger of God, is true!!!
There is no god but/if not He That is the TESTIMONY of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice.There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise. (Surah Al-Imran, 1
How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore TESTIMONY that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust. (Surah Al-Imran, 86)
The only thing that excuses not bearing witness to Muhammad's prophetic messengership (saas) (which should first and foremost be in our hearts) is ignorance of Muhammad (saas) or honest confusion about him.
For those of you who refuse to bear testimony that Muhammad's messengership is true I will just repeat the same verse again for you one more time.
"How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore TESTIMONY that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust." (Surah Al-Imran, 86)
Muslims should unify and prefer each other over non-Muslims. Also, salvation is in the heart and the tongue. And no one knows who is truly good except Allah. The only true good and in subjecting ourselves to our creator and doing our best to fulfill his purpose through our inclination. Only Allah knows what is truly good. Is allowing someone to steal from another and not saying anything good? Is it virtue to allow someone to steal from your brother or another innocent person? It is not always about what we think but whether what we think is in line with what Allah thinks.
?And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah and be not divided among yourselves;? [Al-Qur?an 3103
Qur'an (311 - "O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand.
Salaam
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Our unifying testimony!
I bear witness that there should be no gods but/if not God and that Muhammad, the messenger of God, is true!!!
There is no god but/if not He That is the TESTIMONY of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice.There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise. (Surah Al-Imran, 1
How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore TESTIMONY that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust. (Surah Al-Imran, 86)
The only thing that excuses not bearing witness to Muhammad's prophetic messengership (saas) (which should first and foremost be in our hearts) is ignorance of Muhammad (saas) or honest confusion about him.
For those of you who refuse to bear testimony that Muhammad's messengership is true I will just repeat the same verse again for you one more time.
"How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore TESTIMONY that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust." (Surah Al-Imran, 86)
Muslims should unify and prefer each other over non-Muslims. Also, salvation is in the heart and the tongue. And no one knows who is truly good except Allah. The only true good and in subjecting ourselves to our creator and doing our best to fulfill his purpose through our inclination. Only Allah knows what is truly good. Is allowing someone to steal from another and not saying anything good? Is it virtue to allow someone to steal from your brother or another innocent person? It is not always about what we think but whether what we think is in line with what Allah thinks.
?And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah and be not divided among yourselves;? [Al-Qur?an 3103
Qur'an (311 - "O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand.
Salaam
Salaam,
A couple of questions if you do not mind.
BLUE Who are muslims and who are not-muslims? Am I one? Are you one? And why?
Salaam,
Bender -
Some of my family (me also a couple of months) worked for a really good boss.
He was so good for them (and me), they cheated and stole from him almost on daily basis ( I did also some but innocent ones, only worth a finger cut of, not the whole hand) but he still was good for them and me, he never got angry and while he knew everything about our stealing and cheating he did like he did not know.
Do you know how everyone speaks about him now?
They all have declared more then once, that the only thing left for him to go to paradise was just to say "ashadoe an la ilaha illa Allah, wa ashadoe anna Muhammadan rasoelu Allah".
They really can not find a single fault in him, they only speak in the best words about him, but unlucky for the poor boss he is still doomed to go to hell, because of not uttering this magic formula.btw don't feel sad for the poor boss.
The poor boss sold his company exactly at the best time, just a couple of days after he sold his company the whole branch began to collapse.I think that he was actually not a good boss.
If we have employees/workers and we know that they repeatedly doing false thing again and again, then it is not truly right to just let them doing such thing and do nothing to fix the situation.
If we have power/authority to stop the crime, then it is not something good if we let the same crime happened again and again. And also, if we have company and want to sell it, then I think it is not something good if we sell the company to other while we know that the employees/workers of the company often cheated and stole from us.
Bold I don't think this is a righteous attitude. In my view, this is nearly similar like the case if there's someone who works at government office/institution and he knows that his men (subordinates) commit crimes repeatedly, but does nothing to fix them.
Salaam.
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Bender,
Anyone who has allegiance to Muhammad (saas) as God's prophet and messenger and the Quran as God's message and revelation is a Muslim, with all the different kinds that there are. The differences have to do with what we believe to be the message of Muhammad and the message of the Quran, whether they are the same and how they should be interpreted or how they interact with each other. But anyone who does not have this allegiance is not a Muslim.
Peace
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Bender,
Anyone who has allegiance to Muhammad (saas) as God's prophet and messenger and the Quran as God's message and revelation is a Muslim, with all the different kinds that there are. The differences have to do with what we believe to be the message of Muhammad and the message of the Quran, whether they are the same and how they should be interpreted or how they interact with each other. But anyone who does not have this allegiance is not a Muslim.
Peace
Salaam,
RED Where did you leave Allah? Allegiance to Allah is also important.
Actually I think that is the only thing that counts. Is that enough to be also called a muslim, if so then handshakeSalaam,
Bender -
Bender,
Would you have preferred that I said "Muhammad (saas) as Allah's prophet and messenger and the Quran as Allah's message and revelation." Do you prefer that I use Allah over the word "God."
Our allegiance to Allah comes through Muhammad (saas) and the Quran, and what makes us Muslims is that Muhammad through/and the Quran is the vessel of our allegiance to Allah. This is what makes us distinct from the Hindu, the Christian, the Jew, the Buddhist, the Voudun practitioner, etc. etc. Otherwise, you're just talking about a Theist or a Deist and ANYONE who claims to follow Allah is a Deist/Theist. If you don't follow Allah through a book or a particular guide then you are called a Gnostic Theist/Deist. If you do it through Christ (saas) you are a Christian. If you do it through Israelite scriptures you are called a Jew. If you do it through Hindu scriptures you are called a Hindu, etc. etc.
I don't really see how you can miss these facts.
Salam
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I think in this thread people are speaking about two different things and mixing them up and of course cannot come to an agreement becaue they are two different things.
What is a muslim?
It depends on to which effects you make the definition.
In many countries where the population is mostly muslim the civil codes contain different dispositions depending on the person's religion. For that, of cours, you need to know legally what constitutes a muslim or what constitues a christian or a ew or whatever. For that purpose as far as I know the shahada is used.
I have nothing to say to that, I mean the shahada. I might have something to say to the legal system of the country but that is not the question nor am I going to solve anything, so leave it. But for the purposes of the legal system of the country the shahada is just a formality you have to fulfill in order to be treated in the legal system as a muslim.
That is nothing to do with faith or belief, it has to do with civil law.
A muslim from the spiritual, moral, motional, personal poit of view is something else, and for that, in my opinion, no one needs to ronnounce any shahada at all in front of witnesses or whatever.
Of course if you want to travel to Mekka you would need that, but then we would fall back on the first cae, it is a mere legal step, nothing more. It is not going to take anybody to heaven or hell, just remove an bostacle for the travel.
Salaam
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I think that he was actually not a good boss.
If we have employees/workers and we know that they repeatedly doing false thing again and again, then it is not truly right to just let them doing such thing and do nothing to fix the situation.
If we have power/authority to stop the crime, then it is not something good if we let the same crime happened again and again. And also, if we have company and want to sell it, then I think it is not something good if we sell the company to other while we know that the employees/workers of the company often cheated and stole from us.
Bold I don't think this is a righteous attitude. In my view, this is nearly similar like the case if there's someone who works at government office/institution and he knows that his men (subordinates) commit crimes repeatedly, but does nothing to fix them.
Salaam.
salaam,
BLUE We should not be hasty in our judgement.
We don't know the whole story, maybe he had some very good reasons to do what he did.
Especially when I mentioned a couple of times that he was a GOOD boss, not a stupid one.btw I think you went a little bit off topic.
Salaam,
Bender -
Bender,
Would you have preferred that I said "Muhammad (saas) as Allah's prophet and messenger and the Quran as Allah's message and revelation." Do you prefer that I use Allah over the word "God."
Salaam,
There is simply NO God/Allah in your sentence involved.
You said allegiance to Mohammed AND the quran as it is Allah's message/revelation.
Why did you leave Allah out?
I would have started with allegiance to Allah, and maybe even add someone/thing next to him, but I would definitely not leave Him out.Our allegiance to Allah comes through Muhammad (saas) and the Quran, and what makes us Muslims is that Muhammad through/and the Quran is the vessel of our allegiance to Allah. This is what makes us distinct from the Hindu, the Christian, the Jew, the Buddhist, the Voudun practitioner, etc. etc. Otherwise, you're just talking about a Theist or a Deist and ANYONE who claims to follow Allah is a Deist/Theist. If you don't follow Allah through a book or a particular guide then you are called a Gnostic Theist/Deist. If you do it through Christ (saas) you are a Christian. If you do it through Israelite scriptures you are called a Jew. If you do it through Hindu scriptures you are called a Hindu, etc. etc.
I don't really see how you can miss these facts.
Salam
BLUE I missed them because they are your facts and sometimes facts between 2 different people can differ.
RED Remember that in the end it only matters how Allah calls you, not what other people call you or where they put you by force.
He is The Judge.Salaam,
Bender -
Peace,
The Shahada of the Sunnis (as well as this revised version with the addition of "haqq" are both repeat versions of the testimony that the hypocrites gave to the prophet when they saw him 1,400 years ago!
631 When the hypocrites come to you they say "We bear witness that you are the messenger of God." And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.
The hypocrites insisted to challenge God's assertion where He has stated clearly that His testimony on this subject is ENOUGH - thus exposing themselves as pretenders rather than true submitters.
4828 He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the system of truth, so that it would expose all other systems. And God is enough as a witness.
Now, with regards to the quote of 386 as the new foundation for revising this innovation...
386 How can God guide a people who had rejected after believing, and they had witnessed that the messenger was real, and clear evidences had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
- The verse is speaking ill of these people (how could they have done this after so and so...);
- The verse is referring of a specific people "qawm" who had been alive at the time of the revelation;
- The witnessing they had done was to the reality of the messenger - they had seen him in the flesh, as well as them being present when evidences were given by God.
Finally, I would just like to remind that Satan testifies that God is One and he knows all the messengers better than you and I ever will...Yet, he will burn in the fires of Hell for he failed to submit/obey to God when commanded.
We become Muslims by submitting/surrendering to God (see 4914 & 2744)
