THE TRUE QURANIC SHAHADA
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Or it is you who have no knowledge of Classical Arabic as-salatiin,
What I wrote makes perfect sense.
But we are all allowed to have opinions and it is YOUR opinion that I do not know Arabic.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Csmith,
Consider this, the Quran says that all things come from God, good and bad. It also says that the bad that we suffer here in this life is from our own deeds. It says that God tries us and it says that God punishes us. But can a trial not also be a punishment and a punishment a trial. If God wants us to turn away from evil through the bad that happens to us in this life then that must indeed be the case. Would you like verses?
And surely We shall try you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives and crops; but give glad tidings to the patient, Who says, when afflicted with calamity ?To Allah We belong, and to Him is our return? They are those on whom (descend) Blessings from Allah, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive guidance. (Al-Baqarah 2155-157)
In another verse, Allah Almighty says
He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving. (Al-Mulk 672)
Whatever misfortune happens to you, is because of the things your hands have wrought, and for many (of them) He grants forgiveness. (Ash-Shura 4230)
2211 And there is, too, among befalls him, he is satisfied with Him; but if a trial assails him, he turns away utterly, losing this world and the life to come this, indeed, is a loss beyond compare!
4731 and most certainly We shall try you all, so that We might mark out those of you who strive hard and are patient in adversity for We shall put to a test all your assertions.
518 The Jews and the Christians say "We are the children of Allah and His beloved ones." Ask them, "Why then does He punish you for your sins? Nay! In fact you are human beings like others which He has created. He forgives whom He pleases and He punishes whom He pleases. To Allah belongs the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, and to Him is the final refuge."
Note that 518 can be saying "Why is he punishing you for your sins?."
Salaam -
http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=blw
This life is our second chance. Not our final punishment, but a punishment that serves as a trial. God can raise our ranks or lower them as he wills with how he tries us here, and it is our choice to hold tight to him or to deviate. If this life were not a time for redemption we would have been created for paradise. It makes no sense for us to suffer the same fate as Adam and Eve, who when first created were created for paradise and were only sent to the earth as a trial and a period of redemption.
Salaam
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Some people are born with horrible illnesses, while others are born into poverty, but these can not be punishments. If they were, they would be equal - we would all be punished equally for the same original sin. In fact, life is just not fair.
Your logic is ok, but only under certain assumptions that themselves may not be valid. Like
Who says we are all equally blind? Why would everyone's punishment or test be the same if we are blind to varying degrees? The "original sin" may be same for all in type, but may differ in extent and degree.The justice that brings fairness comes once we are dead. It does not matter whether life deals you good cards or bad ones. Each individual has their own journey to make. In the afterlife, we will be treated justly, and any disparities in this world are fully accounted for.
Indeed. We all have personal journeys,.. and what does that tell us? It tells us that there is a variable that differes in value between people. How could this express itself? Perhaps that we are dealt different cards. Different tests.
I do agree that there is justice in all that is dealt to us. Perhaps we just don't understand the system of justice in play.
You might lead an enjoyable life, like many people here do, or it might be horrific, like a child born to suffer until an early death. Neither of those lives are rewards or punishments though. They are always tests. Everyone has their own test which is unique to them. Only Allah appreciates the subtleties of these deeply complex existences, and He will consider everything of relevance when we are judged.
If the test involves suffering, couldn't we call it a punishment (with built-in blessing)? Why are we tested at all? Isn't it because we have defaulted at some point in some aspect? Wouldn't the test then be both test, reward, punishment and blessing, all in one? Obviously life can be horrible. Why be put to such things just for being tested? "No hard feelings, the horrors are not a punishment, just a test". Nope, I'm not convinced.
In any case, perhaps we could say that the test will become what we make of it. It can take the shape of a punishment if we sow such seeds, and it could be really developing and good, if we sow seeds like that.... all while the test is going on.
Peace
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Zulf,
The original sin version does not add up. We are all born in very different conditions and it would be very unfair that some people are born in poverty, starvation and suffering while some are not if there is just one original same sin in each case. It does not help to claim it has to do with individual testing because it is immensely unfair to expose certain people to great pain while some are not.
I personally find that our spirits grow with evolution and we have an ultimate goal of finding a way out and that is by developing the Spirit so much that it exceeds this Word. We grow under delusion so to say. The World itself is the test and whether we realize we are better than it or succumb to it because we did not use logic and reason to contemplate.
I do see no problem with that humans have evolved throughout history because it is okay with my "theory" compared to sectarian religion. The Spirit lasts while the Body goes in cycles. Either the Spirit develops or it vanishes in a World that was designed to corrupt. Troublemakers in the World are generally said decayed Spirits that are not much more than the animals they are in.
In the Biblical Gospels Jesus is seen healing a blind person while saying "You are forgiven". Why is he saying that? It is as if his blindness is a consequence of something and he says that for a person born blind. There are many hints to confirm the concept of reincarnation in the Gospel testimonies.
I find many logical problems with the typical sectarian doctrine of one death and one resurrection either into Heaven or Hell. Even the traditional interpretation of Hell does not make sense. It gives God the desire of revenge and it has no use as it does not lead into anything useful. It is making God primitive.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Zulf,
The original sin version does not add up. We are all born in very different conditions and it would be very unfair that some people are born in poverty, starvation and suffering while some are not if there is just one original same sin in each case. It does not help to claim it has to do with individual testing because it is immensely unfair to expose certain people to great pain while some are not.
I personally find that our spirits grow with evolution and we have an ultimate goal of finding a way out and that is by developing the Spirit so much that it exceeds this Word. We grow under delusion so to say. The World itself is the test and whether we realize we are better than it or succumb to it because we did not use logic and reason to contemplate.
I do see no problem with that humans have evolved throughout history because it is okay with my "theory" compared to sectarian religion. The Spirit lasts while the Body goes in cycles. Either the Spirit develops or it vanishes in a World that was designed to corrupt. Troublemakers in the World are generally said decayed Spirits that are not much more than the animals they are in.
In the Biblical Gospels Jesus is seen healing a blind person while saying "You are forgiven". Why is he saying that? It is as if his blindness is a consequence of something and he says that for a person born blind. There are many hints to confirm the concept of reincarnation in the Gospel testimonies.
I find many logical problems with the typical sectarian doctrine of one death and one resurrection either into Heaven or Hell. Even the traditional interpretation of Hell does not make sense. It gives God the desire of revenge and it has no use as it does not lead into anything useful. It is making God primitive.
Be safe
AmenuelMostly agree.. heaven and hell doesn't make sense..
Instead of seeing living on this earth as a "test" (where the test result are already known in the first place by the tester)
My view now is more towards living on this earth as a "journey" for the 'spirit' / 'consciousness'...Human made mistake.. and through mistake they learn..
That's also the basic fundamental of scientific method.. create hypothesis.. test it until it failed and the hypothesis proven to be incorrect. Learn from the failure and create new (and better) hypothesis.. and test it again.. it failed.. learn from it and create better hypothesis.. and so on..
A soul / spirit might experience multiple lives... and not necessarily following the linear path of time.. (From past to present) and / or not necessarily on this earth or on this universe. Through each live the soul shall learn from their mistake.
This universe / this reality is merely a 'virtual world' (which can be constructed and destroyed and modified and copied by it's creator with ease) as easy as you press Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V on the computer..
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Hello Jafar,
I agree with your thinking and you are right it is not just a sterile test. However it is yet a "testing ground" or "development ground". I am not exactly sure which term to use. Here we develop our Spirit under delusion, i.e. we were inserted into a Body and from there choose whether to develop that Spirit or stick to the primitive call and enjoy being the Beast with the consequence being an undeveloped Spirit. Being totally absorbed in this World is spiritually detrimental.
There could be a reason that one of the first "commandments" encourage contemplation frequently (Sabbath). Contemplating often helps one find a deeper meaning rather than just go head on in life.
There are many traps in this life; things which occupy our mind more than to actually do what is important with religion being one of them often with their many braindead rituals and rites which accomplishment in an exact manner may preoccupy the mind. Danger in religion is also all the deceptive material available and which causes inflexibility.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Mostly agree.. heaven and hell doesn't make sense..
Instead of seeing living on this earth as a "test" (where the test result are already known in the first place by the tester)
My view now is more towards living on this earth as a "journey" for the 'spirit' / 'consciousness'...Human made mistake.. and through mistake they learn..
That's also the basic fundamental of scientific method.. create hypothesis.. test it until it failed and the hypothesis proven to be incorrect. Learn from the failure and create new (and better) hypothesis.. and test it again.. it failed.. learn from it and create better hypothesis.. and so on..
A soul / spirit might experience multiple lives... and not necessarily following the linear path of time.. (From past to present) and / or not necessarily on this earth or on this universe. Through each live the soul shall learn from their mistake.
This universe / this reality is merely a 'virtual world' (which can be constructed and destroyed and modified and copied by it's creator with ease) as easy as you press Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V on the computer..
Agree
Hello Jafar,
I agree with your thinking and you are right it is not just a sterile test. However it is yet a "testing ground" or "development ground". I am not exactly sure which term to use. Here we develop our Spirit under delusion, i.e. we were inserted into a Body and from there choose whether to develop that Spirit or stick to the primitive call and enjoy being the Beast with the consequence being an undeveloped Spirit. Being totally absorbed in this World is spiritually detrimental.
There could be a reason that one of the first "commandments" encourage contemplation frequently (Sabbath). Contemplating often helps one find a deeper meaning rather than just go head on in life.
There are many traps in this life; things which occupy our mind more than to actually do what is important with religion being one of them often with their many braindead rituals and rites which accomplishment in an exact manner may preoccupy the mind. Danger in religion is also all the deceptive material available and which causes inflexibility.
Be safe
AmenuelAgree.
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How does heaven and Hell not make sense?
For holding onto God during your trial and keeping and growing your souls through faith and fortitude in turmoil, Allah rewards you after this life by drawing you near to his presence and his care. This is Paradise. For acting treacherously, selflessly and like a cretin, turning your back on God and giving into your whims and desires as reactions to God's trials and during your turmoils God distances you from himself once and for all, which is Hell. Remember, God is the True and the True. How can you turn your back on the True and THE True one and be immune to the permanent consequences of this. This life of ours now is the testing ground and a time of redemption for our previous mistake. We are being tried by fire. We must remain steadfast and grow as Allah would have us grow.
This life provides us with miniscule examples of heaven and hell, perfection and imperfection as examples of what is to come. Traitors shall suffer the consequences of their treachery. God is the Truth and he is the True. The loyal shall revel in the blissful consequences of their loyalty. And what is the fact of it all? The Quran tells us that if the traitors (kuffar) were given a chance again they would fall back into the same treachery. So God will NOT punish anyone unless they themselves exhaust their capability for redemption and will not see the light no matter what is done for them. They are people who are past hope. Allah knows it and he will allow them to feel the true sting of the dark path that they willingly chose when they close the door on the light.
Salaam,
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I meant to say "selfishly", "the Truth and the True" and 'closed the door.'