Idribuhnna in 4:34 DARABA - No more excuses

HP_TECH

We all know the predicament that the misinterpretation of 434 causes in the world.
This is a bit of my research on this topic which also references Wakas work.

Daraba, can also be translated as set forth/present/put forth/bring forth/bring out/bring up/put out/put up/indicate/expose.

set forth

To present for consideration; propose set forth a sound plan.
To express in words She has set forth her ideas.

Paying attention to the 1st meanings of the verb (not leaving or traveling) we can get a clearer picture of set forth/ da ra ba

set forth
vb (adverb)

(tr) to state, express, or utter he set forth his objections.
Verb 1. set forth - state; "set forth one's reasons"
exposit, expound
elaborate, expatiate, expound, lucubrate, dilate, flesh out, exposit, enlarge, expand - add details, as to an account or idea; clarify the meaning of and discourse in a learned way, usually in writing; "She elaborated on the main ideas in her dissertation"
describe, depict, draw - give a description of; "He drew an elaborate plan of attack"
premise - set forth beforehand, often as an explanation; "He premised these remarks so that his readers might understand"

If we take a look at the verb present
present
vb (mainly tr)

to introduce (a person) to another, esp to someone of higher rank
to introduce to the public to present a play.
(Broadcasting) to introduce and compere (a radio or television show)
to show; exhibit he presented a brave face to the world.
to put forward; submit she presented a proposal for a new book.
to bring or suggest to the mind to present a problem.
to give or award to present a prize.
to endow with or as if with a gift or award to present a university with a foundation scholarship.
to offer formally to present one's compliments.
to offer or hand over for action or settlement to present a bill.
to represent or depict in a particular manner the actor presented Hamlet as a very young man.
(Military) to salute someone with (one's weapon) (usually in the phrase present arms)
(Military) to aim or point (a weapon)
(Ecclesiastical Terms) to nominate (a clergyman) to a bishop for institution to a benefice in his diocese
(Law) to lay (a charge, etc) before a court, magistrate, etc, for consideration or trial
(Law) to bring a formal charge or accusation against (a person); indict
(Law) US (of a grand jury) to take notice of (an offence) from personal knowledge or observation, before any bill of indictment has been drawn up
(Medicine) med (intr) to seek treatment for a particular symptom or problem she presented with postnatal depression.
(intr) to produce a favourable, etc impression she presents well in public; he presents as harmless but has poisoned his family.

pre?sent2 (v. prznt; n. prz nt)

v.t.

to furnish or endow with a gift or the like, esp. by formal act.
to bring, offer, or give, often in a formal or ceremonious way to present one's credentials.
to afford or furnish (an opportunity, possibility, etc.).
to hand over or submit (a bill or check).
to introduce (a person) to another, esp. in a formal manner.
to bring before or introduce to the public to present a new play.
to come to show (oneself) before a person, in or at a place, etc.
to bring forth or render for or before another or others; offer for consideration to present an alternative plan.
to set forth in words; frame or articulate to present arguments.
to represent, impersonate, or act, as on the stage.
to direct, point, or turn (something) to something or someone He presented his back to the audience.
to level or aim (a weapon, esp. a firearm).
Law.
a. to bring (a formal charge) against a person.
b. to bring (an offense) to the notice of the proper authority.
to nominate (a cleric) for a benefice.

I can see from this, how wakas in FM arrived at his cite conclusions

present 2verb

To make known socially
acquaint, introduce.
To produce on the stage
act (out), do, dramatize, enact, give, perform, put on, stage.
To make a gift of
bestow, give (away), hand out.
To give formally or officially
accord, award, bestow, confer, grant.
To bring forward for formal consideration
adduce, cite, lay.
Archaic allege.
To put before another for acceptance
extend, offer, proffer, tender, volunteer.
Idioms come forward with, lay at someone's feet, lay before.

Although, I might not agree entirely with choosing a word like cite over many others, his research was although long-winded nonetheless, pretty accurate.
I think although, present is the perfect translation and stays congruent with other instances for this translation in The Reading.
Like I stated before the primary meaning of da-ra-ba in Quranic context is set forth/present, which is used disproportionately more so than strike.

It is that simple. The commands in the 434 verse are all non physical except for the second command which is to distance oneself form the spouse. That's right the only physical action a man is commanded to do when confronted with spousal dilemma is to distance himself sexually.

434 The men are to support the women with what God has bestowed upon them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The upright females are devoted; keeping private the personal matters for what God keeps watch over. As for those females from whom you fear desertion, then you shall advise them, and abandon them in the bedchamber, and idribuhunna. If they respond to you, then do not seek a way over them; God is Most High, Great.
435 And if you fear a permanent rift between them, then send a judge from his family and a judge from her family. If they want to reconcile, then God will bring them together. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.

Based on the following verse we can understand that something is being related to a different audience now as it states "....And if you fear a permanent rift between them,..." them/ or themselves being used as dual possessive noun.

(4351)
wa-in
And if CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
COND ? conditional particle

(4352)
khif'tum
you fear V ? 2nd person masculine plural perfect verb
PRON ? subject pronoun

(4353)
shiqqa
a dissension N ? accusative masculine (form III) verbal noun

(4354)
baynihim
between (the) two of them, N ? genitive noun
PRON ? 3rd person dual possessive pronoun

It is evidently not referring to the men any longer as they and their spouses are now the subject. So who is it referring to?
Most likely community members or elders or moderators or counselors/judges.

This idea of involving elders in marital disputes is overwhelmingly synonymous with African and Arabian cultures akin.

We can now makes sense of the previous verse and the last command to mean PRESENT THEM
(43429)
wa-i'ribhunna
and present them. CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
V ? 2nd person masculine plural imperative verb
PRON ? subject pronoun
PRON ? 3rd person feminine plural object pronoun

??

No semantics straight forward analysis with an unbiased examination of the words.

Peace

HP_TECH

PLEASE READ EVERY AYAAH IN THE NAME OF THE GOD THE MOST GRACIOUS THE MOST MERCIFUL
AND PLEASE READ MY PREVIOUS POST RELATING TO TRANSLATION OF DARABA AS SET FORTH/PRESENT
THANK YOU

This is below, is a link to a video in which a sectarian authoritative figure attempts to explain how men are excused in beating their wife under extreme circumstances such as being caught with another man.

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=1azySjz4edk

I think nevertheless you can sometimes take benefit in things you are exposed to.
I think the benefit I can take from this video is further trying to understand what the fear that the husband is perceiving truly represents, what an obedient woman is guarding and what nushuz means. In my opinion this would help understand the whole picture better.

Let us resume.
I have already in my other post described that the more appropriate translation holds as present (not necessarily cite although its meaning is also perfectly sound).

This video is also very interesting because this gentleman or scholar fully acknowledges like wakas had stated in his work that the lack of a preposition in the verse is an anomaly. He says in 1825-1854 (paraphrase) "that the lack of a preposition and the fact it is not being used figuratively is a language stretch, a pretty big stretch."
I think it is quite telling that both an advocate for Quran alone study and a secular Sunnah and Hadith follower agree on this basic concept.
It is evident that it is indeed a big language stretch ONLY if you are interpreting wa-idribuhunna as "and hit them".

If we can better understand what the husband fears, we can arrive at a sound conclusion and that is one the few things I agree about with Norman Ali Khan. The ayaat says

(In The Name of The God The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful)
Alrrijalu qawwamoona AAala alnnisa-i bima faddala Allahu baAAdahum AAala baAAdin wabima anfaqoo min amwalihim faalssalihatu qanitatun hafithatun lilghaybi bima hafitha Allahu waallatee takhafoona nushoozahunna faAAithoohunna waohjuroohunna fee almadajiAAi waidriboohunna fa-in ataAAnakum fala tabghoo AAalayhinna sabeelan inna Allaha kana AAaliyyan kabeeran

Literal
men (are) protectors of the women because Allah (has) bestowed some of them over others and because they spend from their wealth. So the righteous (are) obedient, guarding in the unseen that which Allah (orders) them to guard. And those (from) whom you fear nushzahunna then advise them, and forsake them in the bed wa-i'ribhunna. Then if they obey you then (do) not seek against them a way. Indeed, Allah is Most High, Most Great.

The Almighty describes the righteous(feminine) as obedient and guard in the unseen that which God has them guard. I agree with Norman that the word obedient through the scripture is used for someone being obedient to God. Obedient in respect to many things, prayers, fasting, charity etcetera.
343
Ya maryamu oqnutee lirabbiki waosjudee wairkaAAee maAAa alrrakiAAeena

"O Maryam! Be obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow down with those who bow down."

Nushuz
Nun-Shiin-Zay = to be high, lifted up, rise up, behave ill, be disobedient, ill treat, be rebellious, hate, detest, be indifferent, treat unjustly, be unkind, desert.
So what is this uprising or ill behavior? It is obviously the opposite of being obedient. And Allah describes throughout the Quran the traits of obedient and devout and GUARDING muslims/salihina.
We are told to guard against evil, guard strictly the prayers, guard our oaths, our private parts and more.
Check out 2431
Waqul lilmu/minati yaghdudna min absarihinna wayahfathna furoojahunna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa ma thahara minha walyadribna bikhumurihinna AAala juyoobihinna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa libuAAoolatihinna aw aba-ihinna aw aba-i buAAoolatihinna aw abna-ihinna aw abna-i buAAoolatihinna aw ikhwanihinna aw banee ikhwanihinna aw banee akhawatihinna aw nisa-ihinna aw ma malakat aymanuhunna awi alttabiAAeena ghayri olee al-irbati mina alrrijali awi alttifli allatheena lam yathharoo AAala AAawrati alnnisa-i wala yadribna bi-arjulihinna liyuAAlama ma yukhfeena min zeenatihinna watooboo ila Allahi jameeAAan ayyuha almu/minoona laAAallakum tuflihoona

And say to the believing women (that) they should lower their gaze and they should guard their chastity, and not (to) display their adornment except what is apparent of it. walyadribna bikhumurihinna over their bosoms, and not (to) display their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers or fathers (of) their husbands or their sons or sons (of) their husbands or their brothers or sons (of) their brothers or sons (of) their sisters, or their women or what possess their right hands or the attendants having no physical desire among men or children who (are) not aware of private aspects (of) the women. And not let them their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah altogether O believers! So that you may succeed.

If you read over surah 66. You will see what I consider an example of nushuz and then conclusive an example of an obedient woman both in 665 and 6612
663
Wa-ith asarra alnnabiyyu ila baAAdi azwajihi hadeethan falamma nabbaat bihi waathharahu Allahu AAalayhi AAarrafa baAAdahu waaAArada AAan baAAdin falamma nabbaaha bihi qalat man anbaaka hatha qala nabbaaniya alAAaleemu alkhabeeru

And when confided the Prophet to one (of) his wives a statement, and when she informed about it and Allah made it apparent to him, he made known a part of it and avoided a part. Then when he informed her about it, she said, "Who informed you this?" He said, "Has informed me the All-Knower, the All-Aware."

665
AAasa rabbuhu in tallaqakunna an yubdilahu azwajan khayran minkunna muslimatin mu/minatin qanitatin ta-ibatin AAabidatin sa-ihatin thayyibatin waabkaran

Perhaps his Lord, if he divorced you, He will substitute for him wives better than you submissive, faithful, obedient, repentant, who worship, who fast, previously married and virgins.

6612
Wamaryama ibnata AAimrana allatee ahsanat farjaha fanafakhna feehi min roohina wasaddaqat bikalimati rabbiha wakutubihi wakanat mina alqaniteena

And Maryam, (the) daughter (of) Imran who guarded her chastity, so We breathed into it of Our Spirit. And she believed (in the) Words (of) her Lord and His Books, and she was of the devoutly obedient.

After the following ayyahs and examples from Allah, we can see how nushuz in the context of 434 (stay with me please) could possibly refer to many various situations of which I only list what comes to mind and I can gather from MY reading

being unkind, unjust, hateful, non caring towards the husband
exposing ?private parts? to anyone other than the husband and those made permissible
deserting the system by approaching disbelief by negating charities, failure to fast, observe prayer etc
not maintaining oaths that marriage entails like a husband confiding private matters( as in 66
causing due suspicion of infidelity (although without evidence)

So 434 is most definitely not talking about a case in which a wife has been caught because God gives us a distinct example and instructions for how to deal with such in surah 24.

At 940-954 NAK describes a scenario in which the man has caught the wife and "sees her with another man" and "loses his mind"
Again this is a totally different case than what 434 is describing. Allah has already prescribed what one should do in such a case

242 The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them with one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity overtake you regarding the system of God if you believe in God and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.

246 And those who accuse their spouses, but they have no witnesses except for themselves, then the testimony of one of them is to be equivalent to that of four witnesses if it is sworn by God that he is being truthful.
247 And the fifth shall be the curse of God upon him if he is of the liars.
248 And the punishment will be averted from her if she bears witness four times by God that he is of the liars.
249 And the fifth shall be the curse of God upon her if he is speaking the truth.

We can see here that there can be a physical public punishment ONLY if the husband has witnesses to the fornication/adultery/infidelity/immorality
AND
ONLY IF the husband having no witnesses but himself swears by God he is speaking the truth and the wife admits her wrong/ or omits to bear witness by God that the husband is lying.

It is pretty clear that the husband is not supposed to take the punishing into his own hands, and especially when he is the only witness. Also no where in the Quran especially that ayaah does God give any licensing for hitting your wife. So I refute Norman Ali Khan's apologetic interpretation.

The Ayyah is literally saying if you fear nushuz then respond by which is best. Recall 4134

Wala tastawee alhasanatu wala alssayyi-atu idfaAA biallatee hiya ahsanu fa-itha allathee baynaka wabaynahu AAadawatun kaannahu waliyyun hameemun

And not (are) equal the good (deed) and the evil (deed). Repel by (that) which (is) better; then behold! One who, between you and between him, (was) enmity, (will become) as if he (was) a friend intimate.

Which is best in this example given by Allah in 434 is in my current strong opinion advising the wife (however many times , ceasing to sleep her (whether simultaneously or subsequently) and presenting her to an arbitrary figure.

In fact the very next verse says

435
Wa-in khiftum shiqaqa baynihima faibAAathoo hakaman min ahlihi wahakaman min ahliha in yureeda islahan yuwaffiqi Allahu baynahuma inna Allaha kana AAaleeman khabeeran

And if you fear a dissension between (the) two of them send an arbitrator from his family and an arbitrator from her family. If they both wish reconciliation, Allah will cause reconciliation between both of them. Indeed, Allah is All-Knower, All-Aware.

I think it describes a scenario prior to initiation of the divorce which is causing the dissension among the two that may lead to it. We are aware of the period of interim prescribed for those who swear off from their wives.
Well the conditions and example and procedure for which one can swear off from his wife and vice versa (412 are prescribed here in surah 4.
As of the ending of 435 we can understand that this is leading to the period of interim, where the couple is to wait however long they are to wait depending on their situation. This is why the husband is instructed to abstain sexually.
Those of knowledge know that reengaging in marital activities with the spouse nullifies the interim and divorce. Which would signify reconciliation.
This also why 435 states that if they wish reconciliation Allah will cause reconciliation between both of them.
In what marital status/situation can reconciliation reoccur as described in the Quran? The interim period.
The final and last instruction in 434 is to present them, which in the english law-related definition of the word
is stated as
a. to bring (a formal charge) against a person.
b. to bring (an offense) to the notice of the proper authority.
The Law-related definition is perfectly fit as marriage is a contract/oath (knot/tie) as indicate by Allah in the Quran.

Lastly, we can see that in 435 the husband and wife have become the subject, so this indicates to me that the matter/wife?s nushuz/issue has been presented to the proper authority who will subsequently appoint an arbitrator from the family of each spouse to arbitrate the dissolution of the oaths as 662

Qad farada Allahu lakum tahillata aymanikum waAllahu mawlakum wahuwa alAAaleemu alhakeemu

Indeed, Allah has ordained for you (the) dissolution (of) your oaths. And Allah (is) your Protector and He (is) the All-Knower, the All-Wise.

However I now tend to not entirely agree with the notion of the instructions as in ?faAAithoohunna waohjuroohunna fee almadajiAAi waidriboohunna? to be eferring to gradual steps to take as the nushuz from the wife progresses or as the measures prove ineffective. There is no indication of these instructions having to be gradually implemented.
It could be one clear set of instructions. If you fear do ALL 3. The prior gradual step notion introduces the idea that there is a number of offenses for which there are measures against until the last strike which warrants a punishment.
If someone has a grammatical input/observation for why the instructions are gradually consecutive I welcome it.

I will conclude that although I may not be entirely correct in my analysis of the Scripture concerning this, I know for a fact due to
the grammatical anomaly of d-r-b usage lacking a preposition,
the higher frequency of the root?s usage to mean set forth/ present
the amount of evidence amassed,
that wa-idribuhunna it did not, could not and will not ever mean ?and strike them?.

May Allah guide us ever closer to the Straight Path and may The Most Gracious forgive me if I have erred in my affairs and protect me lest I unknowingly misguide the people.

Peace

Wakas

Might be handy to actually reference the work if you used it www.Quran434.com

I have no problem with "present", I just think "cite" works better.

huruf

4.34. Like all the ayas preceeding it and also the following ayas is not addressed to any husbands or wives whatsoever, and are also not addressed to men but to Alladhina amanu, that is, those who believe, the believers, men and women.

The addressee in the grammatical analysis in the previous post is given as plural masculine. Well, no. Not plural masculine but plural mixed, which, in the form, is like the masculine plural, but clearly since those addressed are the believers, men and women, and the ddresse has not changed, the aya is still addressed to those believers males and females.

It is not addressed to any husband, but to the community of the believers, comprised of men and women. And deals with men and women but not with husbands or wives. No husbands or wives are alluded to at any time.

And like all the ayas in that part of the sura this also deals with social subjects.

Also, why should anybody beat anybody else if nothing wrong has been done?

No striking and no punishing nor solving any marital problems because nowhere it is spoken of wives or husbands, only of women about whom the community fears that might fall into something wrong.

Tie this aya with aya 4.15 which deals with prostitutes and the way to assist them with the plight and its sense may be made out. It is a social measure to help out women who might otherwise fall into social exclusion.

The translations quoted are particularly obnoxious, since they pick from any possible meaning that might be conceived, right or wrong, the meaning that can be more humilliating for women. Like the dubious obedience and the personal private matters and so on.

So no daraba because nothing has been broken. There is fear that that might happen, but it has not happened, therefore no way any punishment should be given by anybody, but preventive social measures for vulnerable womenand their offspring.

Salaam

HP_TECH

Might be handy to actually reference the work if you used it www.Quran434.com

I have no problem with "present", I just think "cite" works better.

) My bad

HP_TECH