QIBLAH AND LEADING PRAYERS

As-Salaatayn

These are my conclusions on these issues that I think would help Quranist Muslims.

QIBLAH MEANS A PLACE OF PRAYER AS WELL AS A DIRECTION PRAYER. See the Qur'an's use of qiblah (1087) as well as Lisanul-Arab and Mu'jam Mufradaat Al-faadhul-Quran
Muslims should face the Ka'bah in Mecca when making ritual prayer or in an any sort of prayer while at a place of prayer (Qiblah). This can be found in the Old Testament among the people of the Torah as the Quran says. Solomon (saas) and others prayed both towards the Temple in Jerusalem and the other houses of God (before the temple was built). So we SHOULD face the Ka'bah when in ritual prayer. 2144-145
It may be better for Quranists to start to call the houses of worship that we belong to and attend (the verb used in the Quran is taba3) Qiblahs, based on the above knowledge and the preferred use in the Qur'an. 2144-145, 1087
No where in the Quran does it say that prayer should be led or that people should stand in front of the others to lead the prayer. I have seen that many women want to lead prayer and take the traditional place of men who lead the prayer. But where do we see in the Quran that the prayer is LED in this fashion. At best the most knowledgeable person in the Quran can recite the Quran but prayer need not be led in the traditional Muslim sense. Nor is it necessary that one person stands in front of the others. If people choose to prayer together they should pray next to each other with the most knowledgeable person reciting before bowing. Others choose to take his or her lead. It is up to them.
Men are essential to a place of worship. 9108 "There is a mosque whose foundation was laid from the first day on piety; it is more worthy of the standing forth (for prayer) therein. In it are men who love to be purified; and Allah loveth those who make themselves pure." 434, patriarchy is the Quranic way. Not gender based tyranny but patriarchy. This is the social order of the Quran. 665's use of saa'7aat may be an implication that women are encouraged to go out of their way and travel to places of worship, knowledge and training and other places to fulfill their faithfulness, obedience, inclination and subjection to Allah. With that said they must still be firmly established in their households an damong their families, they must be forebearing and people of honor and intelligence in their houses and with their families, and not wear clothing that shows their form (al-tabarruj). By the way, most western clothing shows her form purposefully, even if some are better about it than others. 3333. Ladies, it doesn't have to be sexy or provocative to be tabarruj. You could be wearing gym clothing or golf pants and it can still be tabarruj. It could be a professional skirt and still be tabarruj.
No matter what women say, it is not productive for men to pray in close proximity to women who they are not closely related to. The Quran tells us that MEN are extremely attracted to women in a way that women are NOT attracted to men and that this is a strong temptation for them. That is a fact. Therefore it is not a righteous act for women to force themselves into men's spaces during prayer and for them to have to combat thoughts that otherwise would not have surfaced for them because the women want to be in the lead or they want to feel equal to men. To create temptation and to promote opportunities that corrupt the thoughts of other believers is an evil act indeed. It is courtesy and pious help for women to pray apart from men. If women and men agree to pray together it should be done in a way that minimizes distracting contact and proximity. This is honorable behavior (ma3roof), not extremism (I3tidaa&#039.

Salaam

huruf

Women are so silly... Don'tthey understand yet that stardom is for males.

Women give birth and bear the children nine months and mmost of the times also suckle them, that is worth nothing, stardom is for males.

4.1. Says ...ittaqw-allah ... wa al-arham but that is nothing... Stardom is for males.

I wonder wether God is also in need of parriarchy since there is an aya which orders us, human, to be qawwamun to God.

May be males are just all purpose stars.

In view of that whom should I follow any man or my mother? Any man or myself?

I don't think i'll ever understand which is that lack of self assurance which pushes some males to want to be the centre of the universe as such males, feel that they are entitled to it and blame God for their conceit.

Salaam

As-Salaatayn

Huruf,

And you totally miss the point. I understand that much was said about the position of males, but so much was said besides that. Male stardom? How could you deface my words so much and with such ease? Where would you get an arrogant idea like that when our goal is humility? The fact that we all have a proper place is far from stardom. And who said that we should disrespect or disregard women or the ar-7aam. Giving birth and suckling is very important but raising children to be honorable is SOO much more than that, and patriarchy provides the honor that creates upstanding and honorable men and women. The silliness here lies in your being offended. It is not what we want and we should not envy or desire fame. Our roles are just that...duties and roles. May Allah help us fulfill them in the ways that please HIM the most.

Salaam

huruf

Well define Patriarchy,

Salaam

Wakas

You provide little quranic references for your views, and when you did what you said doesnt seem to correspond to what quran says.

In any case, is your view on qiblah the same as the one you shared with me a while back via PM?

As-Salaatayn

Wakas,

point 4 doesn't really need a Quranic reference as I am talking about the lack of something being mentioned in the Quran. Since, it is not there I cannot reference it.

As for point 6. This could use a reference "The Quran tells us that MEN are extremely attracted to women in a way that women are NOT attracted to men and that this is a strong temptation for them." 314 is the first verse that comes to mind. What also comes to mind is the following

?And do not have sexual relations with them while you are in I?tikaf, (confining oneself in a mosque for prayers and invocations leaving the worldly activities) in the mosques?

The term used here is baashara. In addition to being an epithet for sexual intercourse there are some other meanings. This is what Lisanul-Arab says

.

skins touching or interwining

Al-Jimaa' has a meaning of sexual intercourse as well as a meaning of opening association and mingling. Ijtimaa3.

.

Mubaasharah and Mulaabasah have similar meaning. The root or literal meaning is for a man's skin to touch a woman's skin. And this can also mean being on top of her concerning the pudenda as well as aside form this. Baashara of an issue is to come close to it or take charge of it.

I hope this is enough for masjid etiquette and gender intermingling while actually performing acts of worship.

Salaam

Invalid777

These are my conclusions on these issues that I think would help Quranist Muslims.

QIBLAH MEANS A PLACE OF PRAYER AS WELL AS A DIRECTION PRAYER. See the Qur'an's use of qiblah (1087) as well as Lisanul-Arab and Mu'jam Mufradaat Al-faadhul-Quran

With the current pagan interpretation of the Reading, yes, you're right. Muslims are required to face a specific direction and also be in a place of prayer when performing the physical salat ritual.

Muslims should face the Ka'bah in Mecca when making ritual prayer or in an any sort of prayer while at a place of prayer (Qiblah). This can be found in the Old Testament among the people of the Torah as the Quran says. Solomon (saas) and others prayed both towards the Temple in Jerusalem and the other houses of God (before the temple was built). So we SHOULD face the Ka'bah when in ritual prayer. 2144-145

God must have forgoten to mention the holy cube idol in the holy city of Mecca. His beloved house where his Muslim slaves must worship in order for them to worship him. Allah cannot receive the worship of his slaves without the cube idol his slaves built with their own hands. I do not see any reference to a cube idol, a forgiving black stone and a holy place called Mecca in The Reading AKA Quran.

Who exactly is "solomon(saas)"? There is no mention of some dude called Solomon saas praying towards a building in Jerusalem in Quran. Let's just assume he did exist, the mental gymnastics involved in coming up with the idea that Mecca is a holy place and the cube idol must be faced just because there happened to be a dude called solomon who used to face a building in Jerusalem is mind-boggling. I fail to understand how you're able to justify idol worship to a cube idol in Mecca because a dude called solomon faced a building in Jerusalem which is a completely different place.

1.Hindu worshiping statue of Krishna. Method Face idol and perform physical ritual while facing it.
2. Muslim worshiping a stone cube in Mecca. Method Face idol and perform physical ritual while facing it.

Hindu claims to worship Krishna, while Muslim claims to worship Allah, yet the hindu is considered a mushrik and a pagan by the Muslim. The hypocrisy is just startling.

It may be better for Quranists to start to call the houses of worship that we belong to and attend (the verb used in the Quran is taba3) Qiblahs, based on the above knowledge and the preferred use in the Qur'an. 2144-145, 1087
No where in the Quran does it say that prayer should be led or that people should stand in front of the others to lead the prayer. I have seen that many women want to lead prayer and take the traditional place of men who lead the prayer. But where do we see in the Quran that the prayer is LED in this fashion. At best the most knowledgeable person in the Quran can recite the Quran but prayer need not be led in the traditional Muslim sense. Nor is it necessary that one person stands in front of the others. If people choose to prayer together they should pray next to each other with the most knowledgeable person reciting before bowing. Others choose to take his or her lead. It is up to them.

What is up with the obsession of labeling yourself? Do you somehow feel more righteous by calling yourself a "Quranist", a label nowhere to be found in Quran? Do you not realize your Creator can see what is beneath that made up label? You are constantly reminded in The Reading(Quran), that The GOD can see what you really are? You cannot hide anything from The GOD. You received a piece of knowledge(Quran) from The Source of Knowledge and it is your duty to make use of it. You do not call yourself a knowledgeonian, sing it out loud to earn reward points or use it while performing movements of what you may know as "salat", while worshiping a cube idol in Mecca. Built by humans and worshiped by humans.

Men are essential to a place of worship.

I must have missed that. You must have the right genitals in order for a place to be a "place of worship". It's always about the man, that's why Allah created women, to serve men. It's why Allah allowed men to have up to 4 wives and even beat them if they're to disobey the husband. (Mainstream interpretation of Quran so don't quote me on this. I know it's hogwash.)

As-Salaatayn

Invalid777,

It is a shame that people like you find a place on a forum dedicated to the Quran.

Salam.

Man_of_Faith

I think it is good actually with people who use a critical approach and evaluate information and logically process information rather than buying an interpretation for a cheap price.

Invalid777's opinion about Kabah and much else makes sense actually. Worshiping in a direction towards an object is against the second commandment in the ancient decree, but that Muslims have done away with utterly because they have read an interpretation of someone who did away with it. God is not supposed to have any image whatsoever.

Be safe
Amenuel

HP_TECH

I was looking forward to see valid arguments been drawn up from Quranic perspective with citations of related verses and Elise examination of words such as qibla, Mecca, Becca, Kabah, masjid al haram etcetera.

I am starting to feel everyone in this forum has lost the will to study

As-Salaatayn

HP_TECH,

Getting into the meanings of a proper name is an etymology game. The fact that Makkah and Bakkah are undeclineable or Asmaa' ghairu-munsarifah (See Sharh Al-Ajurrumiyyah pg. 107) means that Makkah and Bakkah are proper nouns and their meanings cannot be taken into account grammatically or syntactically. Like the names 'A'ishah, Hafsah or Maymunah.

With that said, years ago I had a page on my former website dedicated to the meanings of Bakkah and Makkah in which I tried to make them grammatical and syntactical factors. I also did this with Ramadan trying to make it munsarif or declineable through the way it was recited. This was a mistake. So I took it down. I'm sure someone still has it up somewhere because I remember finding it on someone's page not too long ago.

You will find in Lisanul-Arab and Mu'jam Mufradaat Al-faadhul-Quran that qiblah means Naa7iyahtus-salaati. Which can mean both a place of prayer or a direction of prayer. And we see that its meaning in 1087 is place of prayer. With that said in 244-46, it is clear that in our places of prayer we are to face the Holy Temple which is the Ka'bah in Mecca/Becca wherever our qiblahs or places of worship may be.

HP_TECH, I can give you a break down too of why Becca and Mecca are synonymous and how there is precedent for an interchange of baa and meem with certain words in Arabic like Al-Asammu and Al-Asabbu as nicknames for Muharram and Shakama and Shakaba being two dialectical variants of the same word. The other examples slip my mind for now.

Salaam

Lost the will to study...SMH.

HP_TECH

I wasn't referring to you, but to the responses.
Well thank you anyway.
As of now I am not sure if there is enough evidence to say that Makkah and Bakkah are meant as the same locality. They have two distinct names
Are you proposing that God is referring to the ancient name of Bakkah when it was the only first House established?

Salaam

As-Salaatayn

HP_TECH,

The same name pronounced differently and used interchangeably in ancient Classical Arabic. Like saying 'the Big Apple' and New York, or Philly and Philadelphia. Or how some people saying New Orleans and some say Nolens. Same word. Languages are full of this stuff.

Salaam

Wakas

peace Anwar,

QIBLAH MEANS A PLACE OF PRAYER AS WELL AS A DIRECTION PRAYER. See the Qur'an's use of qiblah (1087) as well as Lisanul-Arab and Mu'jam Mufradaat Al-faadhul-Quran

At first glance these seem to be the religious-meanings post-Quran. Can you clarify the use of the word "qiblah" in non-religious contexts, e.g. what are the examples given in classical Arabic dictionaries.

HP_TECH

The Lughat al Quraan
Says
Q-B-L .qabl) is the opposite of later. It also means without( ? ?
The Quran says
Here it can also mean before.
ad-duburu ad-duburu). It is the opposite of( ? ? al-qublu al-qubul) is the opposite of( ? ? behind i.e. in front.
Surah Yusuf says
.)al-qubl) the foot of a mountain (width-wise( ? ? .al-qubluminazzamn)theinitialpartofanera(? ?
.al-qublah) kiss( ??
.qawabilul amr) the initial part of an issue, as a foreword( ? ?
.}al-qaabilah) the coming night, or imminent night, or a woman who gives birth {T, M( ? ?
Ibn Faris says it basically means for something to be in front of something. But the word which is the opposite of later does not fall under this meaning.
.qibal) in front, face to face, towards, direction. It also comes to mean close, close by( ? ? Surah Al-Hadeed says
Surah Al-Baqrah says
But if ? ? (qibl) is considered to be the plural of ? ? (qiblah), then it would mean the ? ? (qiblah) of
the east and west. See details ahead.
.}taqab balahu wa qabilah) he took it, accepted it {T, M( ? ? The Quran says
.}taqabbal) to accept something in a way that it becomes deserving of a reward. {T, M( ? ?
In these verses ?to accept? means to take something, like we accept some offerings. It means their deeds get good results according to the Law of Requital, and only those deeds which are in line with the Revelation can produce good results (as noted in the Quran).
304
Before and after is the work of Allah

18109
without my Sustainer saying being true or completed {F}

1226
If his shirt has been torn in front.

5714
towards the outside, or from inside, both ways the punishment can come

2177
towards the east

4225
He is the one who accepts atonement from his servants (followers)

403
one who accepts pardon

527
Allah accepts the good deeds of only those who follow His guidance.

About Maryam, the Quran relates
qubul) openly, face to face. It also means responsible, patron and( ? ? qabeelun) and( ? ?
representative {T, M}. The Quran says
.}al-qibalu) strength and force {T, M( ? ?
al-qabeel) husband. It also means a group of three or more people who belong to the same( ? ? forefather, or descendants of the same father. Plural is ? ? (qaba-il) as in (4913).
.qabaa-ilur raas) the bones of the skull which join each other( ? ?
Zajaaj says that for the descendants of the tribe of Ismail ? ? (qabeelah) is used and for the tribe of Ishaq ? ? (sibt) is used. Plural of it is ? ? (asbaat).
336
God accepted it well

6112
We would have brought together all the things in front of them

237
they wouldn?t have the strength to fight our armies they will not be able to face them

.al-qabeelah) the big rock used to block the mouth of a well( ? ?
.aqbala ilaih) he came towards him( ? ?
.aqbalar rajul) he came to his senses after his foolishness( ? ?
.muqaabalah) he confronted him, came face to face( ? ? ,)qaabalah( ? ? .aqbala alaih) attended to him( ? ?
.aqbala alal-amr) he engaged in that work and did not leave it, or kept it in front of him( ? ? .}taqaabala) they both came face to face {T, M( ? ?
The Quran says
al-qiblah) the actual meaning of this word is direction or trend, but generally it means the( ? ? direction one faces in prayer {T, M}. Therefore it means ?the faced direction?, or ?the direction one kept in front?, or ?the direction which is meant or in mind?.
In Deen, the ? ? (qiblah) has a particular significance. Every system, every republic, every government have a centre as a symbol towards which all refer. It creates a unity of thought and homogeneity of deed among them. This is actually the symbol of that system which has to be kept in mind all the time. By keeping it in view (or mind) one expresses his fidelity to that system.
The ? ? (qiblah) or centre for the system of God could be only one, about which God has said
The importance of the ?? (qiblah) can be judged from the fact that following the ?? (qiblah) has been likened to the following of Deen.
1547
they will be seated on pedestals in front of each other

395
Ka?ba which has been made the symbol of guidance for all mankind

396
he who enters it, finds peace

HP_TECH

Surah Al-Baqrah says

2145
Even if you present them with all the verses or reasoning you can, even then they will not follow your qiblah, and neither will you follow theirs and neither will they follow each other?s qiblah.

2120
The Jews and the Christians will never be happy with you until you follow their way

This shows that qiblah is actually the symbol of a way of life or Deen and following the qiblah means to follow a particular way of life.
The momineen have been told that no matter which walk of life they belong to, in whichever part of the world they may be residing, they must fix their direction towards their qiblah
Let your purpose in life be one, and this unity will form the basis of the unity of your nation. The physical form of doing this is to face toward the qiblah in prayers. This is the truth which has been stressed and must be followed
If qibaal is considered as the plural of qiblah, then the verse would mean that all the qiblahs in the east and the west, be they belong to any nation or religion, are in fact additional and not personal. The things which symbolize a system are important so long as the systems are in place. When they are no longer present, the symbols also lose their significance. These symbols have been called ? ? (sha-irillaah) at another place. See heading (Sh-Ain-R). But if the system is no longer present then the respect of the symbols becomes merely customary. This is the point that the Quran wants to make when it says that no matter where you are, keep your attention or direction towards your Deen. This will show as to where your fidelity lies, but this also means that turning towards the qiblah is not an end in itself ? its significance is symbolic.
Then question is that when the system becomes invisible and people who are living individual lives but wish to establish a system, then what qiblah should be the centre? Now the question before us is, where should collective life begin? The Quran has pointed to this fact too in the narrative about the Bani Israel where it is said that ?We sent revelation towards Moosa?.
In these conditions
This means that this system starts from your homes, and gradually this system will encompass everybody and one qibla or centre will be established for all.
Baitul Maqaddas was the centre for the Jews, but the Jews confined Allah?s Deen to their descendants only. Therefore this centre also turned into their national centre but not the centre for the mankind as a whole. But no religion or nation had the concept of a universal bondage of humanity. Conversely the Quran wanted to bring all mankind to one centre. It could only make Ka?ba the centre whose foundation was laid by Ibrahim for this very purpose i.e. to unify mankind on one qibla (2127).
This place was declared
2150
keep your attention towards it

2177
The path to righteousness is not that you turn your face towards east or west

1087
Make your homes the centre of salaat and begin the system of salaat from there

2125
The sanctuary and centre for all mankind

2225
for the residents as well as for those who came from outside

396
it was made to benefit all mankind

QES-Norway Lughat-ul-Quran Volumw III Page 237 of 336

HP_TECH

This was the purpose for which Ka?ba was made the centre of Allah?s Deen. As far as the Muslims are concerned, for fixing the qiblah for the purpose
In this verse the purpose of the muslims? life and modus operandi has been highlighted. Ka?ba has been made the centre so that the Deen becomes universal, and the duty of the followers of this Deen is to watch over the deeds of other nations of the world to see which nation does what for humanity. For this purpose a collective system is necessary. The centre of this system is the Messenger and after him, his real followers.
Until that system was in place, the purpose of the fixation of the qiblah was achieved. When it disappeared, neither did the status of the muslims remained what it was nor the status of the qiblah as it was before.
To injext soul into the ?custom? of prayer and facing the qiblah the same system needs to be re- established. In the presence of the Quran, the reinvigorating of that system is very easy. The Quran has been protected and preserved so that the system always remains in this world as a concept and , if for some reason this system disappears, then it can be re-established with the help of the Quran. The world seems to be in need of a world order today which is to establish a universal system. This system can be no other than the Islamic system. The day the world can understand this fact, a true new world order will be established, but what is first required is that the Muslis who believe in the Quran establish unity and establish such a system in a piece of land as a model. If there are different qiblahs for this nation or they remain divided into different sects, then a universal qiblah cannot be established.
2143
Thus we have made you an international community so that you watch over the deeds of the nations of the world and the messenger becomes the watchman on your deeds

Invalid777

This was the purpose for which Ka?ba was made the centre of Allah?s Deen. As far as the Muslims are concerned, for fixing the qiblah for the purpose
In this verse the purpose of the muslims? life and modus operandi has been highlighted. Ka?ba has been made the centre so that the Deen becomes universal, and the duty of the followers of this Deen is to watch over the deeds of other nations of the world to see which nation does what for humanity. For this purpose a collective system is necessary. The centre of this system is the Messenger and after him, his real followers.
Until that system was in place, the purpose of the fixation of the qiblah was achieved. When it disappeared, neither did the status of the muslims remained what it was nor the status of the qiblah as it was before.
To injext soul into the ?custom? of prayer and facing the qiblah the same system needs to be re- established. In the presence of the Quran, the reinvigorating of that system is very easy. The Quran has been protected and preserved so that the system always remains in this world as a concept and , if for some reason this system disappears, then it can be re-established with the help of the Quran. The world seems to be in need of a world order today which is to establish a universal system. This system can be no other than the Islamic system. The day the world can understand this fact, a true new world order will be established, but what is first required is that the Muslis who believe in the Quran establish unity and establish such a system in a piece of land as a model. If there are different qiblahs for this nation or they remain divided into different sects, then a universal qiblah cannot be established.
2143
Thus we have made you an international community so that you watch over the deeds of the nations of the world and the messenger becomes the watchman on your deeds

A question to you HP that I hope you may answer.

When a Hindu bows and prostates to a physical object and a Muslims does the same, what makes the Hindu a mushrik? You are both bowing and prostrating to a physical object you built with your own hands. Why are the Muslims not considered mushriks but the Hindus are?

I fail to fathom how Islam is able to justify idol worship while belittling other religions for doing the exact same.

Please explain how a Muslim living in South America or Hawaii in the 17th century is able to make Hajj to a holy stone cube in a desert. If Allah's religion is universal and easy, why give a disadvantage to humans who don't live in or around the Middle East?

Man_of_Faith

Invalid777,

Good rhetorical question. I had not done that comparison before.

Obviously to have a holy direction and holy building is against the rule of idolatry which is number two in the old 'Ten Commandments'. It prohibits to make an image of anything to worship, and it does not matter whether it is physical (Earthly) or abstract (Heavenly).

But some people seem to have abrogated those commandments despite that they were told to be eternal.

In Judaism there also grew forth a falsehood about Jerusalem and this was adopted for the Islam doctrine but "changed" to Mecca. The concept of a holy place is contradictory however when interpreting the ancient Decree.

I just see that tradition has been greatly involved.

Be safe
Amenuel

HP_TECH

I'll just remind everyone that everything I posted in the previous last three posts was exactly copy and posted from Lughat Al Quraan in response to Wakas request of what examples Classical Arabic dictionaries give regarding the word qibla.

Now I will add my own opinion since brother invalid asked me.
When I bow and protostate I am not picturing Meccah or the Kaba I am simply bowing in a specific direction.
Perfectly aware that God encompasses all, I raise my head to the ceiling above and stretch my arms wide like a plant seeking sunlight.
I am in humble submission and supplication
When exactly God forbid should I have time to envision a physical location in my salat?

I understand your concerns about how certain individuals might not be able to separate the act of prostration in a direction from the act of prostration to a locality or a physical object.
But it is naive to assume that all people performing ritual salat are worhsipping a locality.
You are in the wrong to assume that those performing ritual salat are not simply facing a particular direction while humbly submitting to God.

That's the problem.
The same way I cannot speak for all Hindus but I am pretty sure they are praying to statues and partners besides God actively, knowingly. They are using idols actively.

My purpose when prostrating in the qibla of Mecca is a fulfillment of a command that I interpret to mean using this center of the deen of Islam as the universal common direction of prayer for all adherents. Unison in other terms.

This by no means rends me or other ritual salat establishers mushrikin.
Again I understand your comparison but you are flawed in making generalizations.
You are a Muslim and therefore have believed in the Message of the Quran and by so doing support your messenger, are you by your support of the messenger transgressing in the limits by idolizing him as others? I would assume no.
You are able to disconnect the supporting of your messenger from the idol worshiping of him.

We can do the same.

The mushrikin are those who have idolized the direction of prayer because they touch and kiss the stone or envision this locality in their prayer
NOT THOSE WHO USE IT AS A MERE DIRECTION brother.

I wish you would all think more critically about everything.
Three is no such black and white there are greys.
God says everything is in degrees.

As of now I do not see it as a transgression to take a common direction of prayer in your salat despite what other people have mistakenly associated with it to God.

The only idol worship in your example is the exceeding of the limit in the deen by venerating the Kaaba but NOT merely taking it as a direction of prayer or qibla, as we are commanded to do (whatever you might interpret it as)

Idol worship is definitely worshipping idols of false gods NOT merely facing a direction in your prayer.

Other than that you will end up calling your brothers unjustly mushrikin onky because they face a direction in their prayer.
(Although my eyes are usually closed and when they are open they are usually towards the sky)

Whether you face east or west it shouldn't matter right? What matters is your establishing of the salat.
So why fuss over facing that which we are commanded to take as qibla al masjid Al Haraam. Some among us have interpreted Al Masjid Al Haram as a physical locality others have not.
We do not call each other mushrikin over our differences of salat times or salat altogether.
So why offend each other over a mere direction of prayer. Be kind towards one another do you not have faith that your brothers can separate idol worship from facing a direction?

The Hajj is a totally different topic than this one Invalid777. Furthermore Hajj is most certainly to a physical location. There is no dispute about that.
The dispute is whether the same physical locality we are to pilgrimage/hajj to is also meant as a direction of prayer in our salat. You are kind of mixing two different arguments that would need a different thread to be honest.
Nevertheless, I will remind you, if God so wills what your Lord said about the Hajj. Read 397 very well and please with all humility tone down your arrogant attitude. I do not mean to be offensive please, just advising my brother.
God explains clearly Hajj is for those who can find a way.
397
In it (are) signs clear, standing place of Ibrahim, and whoever enters it - is safe. And (due) to Allah upon the mankind (is) pilgrimage (of) the House (for one) who is able to (find) a way. And whoever disbelieved then indeed, Allah (is) free from need of the universe.

Other points to add to not seem biased and give opening to more research and focus on qibla usage in Quran are
If you read my previous post you will see some interesting facts about how this symbol of center for the deen holds value if the deen is established and has not disappeared
Also the qibla of Moses and the Bani Israel at the time enslavement prior to exodus.
There is also a section that speaks of qibla as a direction in mind.
Just to remain open minded......

Let us not jump on each other over a direction of prayer.
Let us discuss the ideas but resorting to naming after the belief is a transgression.
4911
O you who believe! (Let) not ridicule a people (another) people, perhaps that they maybe better than them; and (let) not women (other) women perhaps that they maybe better than them. And (do) not insult yourselves and (do) not call each other by nicknames. Wretched is the name (of) disobedience after the faith. And whoever (does) not repent, then those - they (are) the wrongdoers.