About Me.....

parvez_mushtaq

Assalamualikum Rahamatullahi Wabarakathahu

2015, Mina, our group passed the place of stampede just an hour ago. We came to hear about the incident when we were going to haram from our rooms after completing the head shave .There was rumor that few shais came in the opposite way chanting ?labbayk ya hussein? and there was rift which caused the stampede. I don?t know how far it is true .only ALLAH subhanavatala knows better .yet another incident to widen the split between sunni and shais conflicts. Since I don?t have complete knowledge about the sects in shais I restricts myself to the sects in sunnis .

Most of the sunnis in Medina wants to kiss every wall of the al-Masjid an-Nabawi.I really wonder why they want to think even today our prophet is alive thanks to saudia officials who control this shrik to the maximum extent .Even in mecca these people want to kiss every wall around in haram .Saudi officials restrict them kissing Maqame Ibrahim and the walls of kaaba as well as walls of hatim but kissing of black stone is allowed as there is a hadith which allows this shirk .So it is understood that under certain conditions shrik of kiss is allowed .

Note that kissing black stone minus hadith is shirk as it is shirk to maqame Ibrahim but kissing of black stone is not shirk because there is hadith .One thing is common among them ,They always manage to produce a ahadith or a fatwa from an ancient scholar to justify their deeds.

These are the oldest divisions but we have a latest sect called quran only group.I think these people are the effect of Christian missionaries abuses against our ahadith. Since they are unable to defend themselves they want to ignore ahadith and change the interpretation of quran to suit their needs .I think Christian missionaries succeeded in their mission. They don?t think twice to change the 1400 year traditions.

I really wonder why all these groups cannot accommodate each other even though they all follow the same book ,Quran .Instead of drifting apart they can resolve the issues .As per me, we cannot ignore any Islamic references (by references I mean all including ahadith,qiyas ,ijma and also the fatwas of our ancient scholars)at the same time we cannot take everything

So my policy is simply, don?t take everything at the same time don?t ignore everything ,put everything under the litmus test of quran if the results are positive take it, if turn negative leave it .

Regards
Mushtaq

Bender

Hi,

Welcome to the forum handshake

Salaam,
Bender

Man_of_Faith

Welcome to the forum.

Be safe
Amenuel

Comrox

Peace Mushtaq,

Welcome to the Free Minds forum. ) Glad you're here.

clashncruz

Assalam alaykum brother,

I agree that we should read all things possible and evaluate them against the Qur'an. I study Sunni and Shia doctrines. I also study the thousands of other faiths that exist or have existed in history.

Indeed

22
23
24
25

22 This is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the
righteous.
23 Those who believe in the unseen, and are steadfast in prayer, and
from Our provisions to them they spend in charity.
24 And those who believe in what was sent down to you, and what
was sent down before you, and regarding the Hereafter they are
certain.
25 These are the ones guided by their Lord, and these are the successful
ones.

I am glad you are here to participate in the discussion!

Peace brother.

Jafar

Assalamualikum Rahamatullahi Wabarakathahu

2015, Mina, our group passed the place of stampede just an hour ago. We came to hear about the incident when we were going to haram from our rooms after completing the head shave .There was rumor that few shais came in the opposite way chanting ?labbayk ya hussein? and there was rift which caused the stampede. I don?t know how far it is true .only ALLAH subhanavatala knows better .yet another incident to widen the split between sunni and shais conflicts. Since I don?t have complete knowledge about the sects in shais I restricts myself to the sects in sunnis .

It's NOT TRUE.
The above is an example of propaganda launched by the Saud's family to

Makes them escape from the responsibility of Mina disaster.
Blame it to the Shiites.
Promote the hatred towards the Shiites.
Gain wider support for their upcoming war against the Shiites / Iran

These are the oldest divisions but we have a latest sect called quran only group.I think these people are the effect of Christian missionaries abuses against our ahadith. Since they are unable to defend themselves they want to ignore ahadith and change the interpretation of quran to suit their needs .I think Christian missionaries succeeded in their mission. They don?t think twice to change the 1400 year traditions.

There are plenty of Christianity influence as can be found in both in the hadith and the Quran.
They have "succeeded" many centuries ago..

I suggest that you actually learn about Christianity and Judaism and make the conclusion yourselves..

Salam and welcome

parvez_mushtaq

Assalam alaykum brother,

I agree that we should read all things possible and evaluate them against the Qur'an. I study Sunni and Shia doctrines. I also study the thousands of other faiths that exist or have existed in history.

......

I am glad you are here to participate in the discussion!

Peace brother.

Waliakum Salam

I am glad that i find one more like minded
i think we need inter sect scholars
hope it will be a interesting discussions

Jazak ALLAH

parvez_mushtaq

It's NOT TRUE.
The above is an example of propaganda launched by the Saud's family to

Makes them escape from the responsibility of Mina disaster.
Blame it to the Shiites.
Promote the hatred towards the Shiites.
Gain wider support for their upcoming war against the Shiites / Iran

This what happening between them for the past 1400 years.They always point fingers at one another.it seems They will never unite till the day of judgement or at least their scholars and the politicians will never make it happen

There are plenty of Christianity influence as can be found in both in the hadith and the Quran.
They have "succeeded" many centuries ago..

I suggest that you actually learn about Christianity and Judaism and make the conclusion yourselves..

Salam and welcome

I may agree with you for hadith and not for quran
BTW where in quran it is mention Islam is new religion and quran is the only book revealed.In the entire quran it is stated that the process of prophet hood and giving scripture to him is not a new thing but was done from time to time .Did quran ever mention that Jews or christian have a different GOD and that GOD gave them another scripture .Quran always mention "Rabbi wa Rabbukum".
Not only this quran advocates every scripture was given by the same GOD, ALLAH Subhavnavatala .Quran was not influenced by anything but it influences everything .

whatever you find in quran which you think "influenced" is actually abrogation
verse 2.106
We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

one more thing i want to tell you is about virgin birth and babies by the river
This stories are there in quran as well as in bible and other scriptures as well .for example in Hindu mythology , which came before bible krishna and karnan seem to have the same stories .you mean to quran is also influenced by Hindu scriptures as well .

quran is only scriptures on the face of the planet which even accommodate people of other religions
verse 2.62
Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans - those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

and the same message repeated in verse 5.69

Indeed, those who have believed and those who were Jews or Sabeans or Christians - those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

can you show me these type verse in any other scriptures

regards
Mushtaq

good_logic

Peace parvez.

You have used the following translation here,quote

whatever you find in quran which you think "influenced" is actually abrogation
verse 2.106
We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

I do not agree that " Ayatin" in here means "verse". It cannot mean "verse", as there is no abrogation in Qoran.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

parvez_mushtaq

Peace parvez.

You have used the following translation here,quote

whatever you find in quran which you think "influenced" is actually abrogation
verse 2.106
We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

I do not agree that " Ayatin" in here means "verse". It cannot mean "verse", as there is no abrogation in Qoran.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

I 100% agree with you GL
i roughly went through your article at http//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/abrogation-a-big-lie/
and you are 100% correct.another like minded!We cannot limit our self to a close circle.we are dealing with the book from the LORD OF THE WORLDS and we have limitless horizons .

Quran itself is the abrogation of all the religious books of this world.This ayah is meant about such abrogations .yes you are correct.
i would like to add some thing to your article
for example laws regarding divorce .there is a world of difference in the new version(Quran) when compared to old(bible,Torah) .both Jews as well as Christians ,as a matter of fact any followers of any religion cannot follow their scriptures .the lonely scripture which stand out in this crowd is Quran.millions of Muslims are following this latest version of all religious scriptures

the worst part in the theory of abrogation is "hadith abrogates quran " ,this is where my people elevate ahadith to quran

note that in my previous replay to jafar, i was talking about influence of Quran by Christians. I was talking about religious abrogations and not about the abrogation you are accusing me about.

regards
Mushtaq

imrankhawaja

I do not agree that " Ayatin" in here means "verse". It cannot mean "verse", as there is no abrogation in Qoran.

true and logical,,,,

Man_of_Faith

Quran does not abrogate anything.

good_logic

Peace parvez.

Thank you for your reply.

Please notice that in my post I was not accusing you. I was challenging the translation you posted.

Hope that is clarified.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

good_logic

Peace parvez.

May I add,welcome.

Notice the number of my posts, this made me take notice of
2647
They said, "We believe in the Lord of the universe.

Qoran has that effect on many, for It comes from the Lord of the universe. I certainly believe so.
GOD bless you.
Peace

imrankhawaja

Quran does not abrogate anything.

here you are saying something else.... now i understand very well ...u make me laugh man,,,

Man_of_Faith

I never said anything else.

imrankhawaja

I never said anything else.
Quran was made written between year 250 until 625

my brother was you actor before or just want to act infront of innocent people...

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604387.500

Man_of_Faith

my brother was you actor before or just want to act infront of innocent people...

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604387.500

You brought my post out of its context by citing something without the first clause. "In my understanding" means the way I understand it based on the information I have, I estimate the time of writing of Quran to between 250 to 625, but I actually would make it more precise by saying between year 400-500. That is by the historical data that the 'Modern Arabic' script was developed during that time, likely with Quran being the pioneer.

The interpreters during 600+ were completely ignorant of what the Quranic Arabic said so they cannot have had a clue of what it said. They compiled hadith which had not a slightest relationship to Quran, not even by any single definition, they got it all wrong. They invented a Muhammad as an incredibly unrighteous man and warlord, and whose name is recorded in historical non-Muslim accounts as being considerably ruthless, zealous and dogmatic. Of course when the rule had been established then they could feast on the wealth of the conquered Persian empire and the Mesopotamian and Assyrian nations, and the technology that the Greco-Roman empire had brought to the Middle-East.

What they did was to rally superstitious people, have a charismatic leader (Muhammad) and then spread their disinformation in the name of religion. However, they were likely not more ruthless and dogmatic than the rulers in Rome, but could be on par. The REAL adherents to the original faith were brutally suppressed and persecuted in the Middle-East and which are in common tongue called Gnostic faiths today but were certain Jewish groups and Christians who refused to accept the dogma of Jesus from Rome. They were attacked and oppressed on two fronts. The attacks are evident in the sectarian interpretation of Quran as they attack the saying "We only stay in Hell for a number of days" which is true information as you stay for as much as you make yourself whole. This was obviously heretical to these Pagans. The Jews were attacked the most in their fabricated interpretation as the interpreters themselves were sectarian Jews who came to call themselves Muslims, who adhere to the "true" faith of the "Children of Israel". They made the word Islam to mean Submission while it means "being sound" as to mark how true they are to their misrepresented Rabb which they also ignorantly called Allah.

The influence of a Pagan representation of a god is heavy on the minds of people so it all escalated, everything due to the impulse of Satan (the instinct). These Muslims also known as Jews had not a clue of their heritage and missed factors that in their Torah it says that Moses was told "I am who am I". Well, they could barely read the ancient tongue so and mixed it with a lot of their hadith/hearsay of that time. The language they were skilled at was likely Old Persian (and older versions) as they were Persians.

They also missed that Jew is something that you make of yourself and it is not something you are per automation. It is a descriptive term. A Jew is realized about matters and sound as the word means that you recognize everything of why you are here in this World and act accordingly.

In all this Quran was just an innocent scripture made written by the Holy Spirit and taken by pretenders to derive a doctrine from no matter if it was connected to reality or not. It does not abrogate anything from the past, but it does also not add anything for that matter but only explain it more in detail and everything it does circulate around is about combating your worst problem Satan (the instinct). It will not add more than the well-known "Ten Commandments" (or Ten Stumbling Blocks/parameters) on which it elaborates well. The sectarian interpretation of Quran does not even mention the "Ten Commandments" by name even one time despite it being the mainframe of Abrahamic faiths (but in 260 it does if one can read the Arabic properly).

It was not a coincidence though as it was about 1000 years earlier prophesied by Yesaia (Isaiah &#1609 that this would be happening to it. The rise of the sect Islam was described very well within that Jewish text. And Jesus (Eysua &#1609 was right in saying he "would not bring peace but the sword". He too prophesied very well. What happened some hundred years after he had given up the Spirit? The whole known World there at that time would fight because of him and what he had taught, and none were safe from either Yahed or Neserene because the marauders came from everywhere, forgetting about his real message to instead fight over what he was or was not. It was more important to either worship either him or Rabb than to actually conform with what has to be done by each individual person. The Pagan mentality came back, to fight over deities who need no defending.

Be safe
Amenuel

imrankhawaja

nice,,,, but when you want to convince somebody u need to provide witness and proofs.. claiming a big thing without proof and authhority is a game of fire ,,, and sometimes in the game of fire ,,, u get caught by fire...so be careful my brother

Man_of_Faith

I brought forth quite some indications which is sufficient. You can yourself paint up the scenario. Muhammad was in non-Muslim sources portrayed as an unrighteous man and that is evidence enough in conjunction with other information available, even so how the Quran interpretations behave.

And you only have to analyze what people believe in. And that it says "Kill them wherever you find them unless they perform salat". And that is just one thing in a sea of many.

As it does not add up after evaluating is evidence in its own right.

Quran was not interpreted ever and that is possible to understand by learning it yourself. The available interpretations are pathetic to say the least.

If you consider it evidence or not is up to you, but I am sure there are people who would.

And Isaiah did prophesy what I wrote.

Your sect was just made by a bunch of Persian clerics who adhered to a version of Judaism. If you cannot swallow that then feel free to stay in your little bubble. No one is forcing you, but you cannot exactly say I have no evidence.

My elaborations on Arabic words in the forum has support by very old Arabic lexicons. Jinn is an example of that. Yet people say I conjecture. When someone cling into a belief blindly it is difficult to offer sensible input despite that I break their little card house due to how fragile it is.

Do you think I spend row after row writing if I did not have a point?

I suggest you go to the bottom of your faith perception and consider what it is you believe in.

I am not after hurting anyone's feelings, but I dislike all the people who live in a world of lies for what influential clerics have fabricated. I am not assaulting faiths here in that regard, but aiming on weak spots in order that perhaps some people wake up from their slumber. Perhaps then they can help themselves. You cannot say the recorded information about a ruthless warlord Muhammad or that Quran says (in the sectarian interpretation) that "kill them wherever you find them" gives you strong points.

I sense great frustration in people because of me.

Why did the so called Islamic state after the 7th century become so developed? They had looted the Persian conquered ground and northern kingdoms including imported Roman technology that the Greco-Roman empire had brought to the Middle-East.

I painted a very likely scenario for you in the previous post and it does have indications to as why it is probably true. And that you find that some of the people who wrote the so-called hadith were Persians is also conspicuous, is it not?

Be safe
Amenuel