Differences between sunni,wahabi,shia and ahmady
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I don't know whether this question has been asked before but there are discussions about similar questions.
I feel like in this forum people are from different sectarian groups(obviously many of you are trying to get out of this sectarian mentality)
The question is, has any of you ever researched differences between all these groups?
What things makes them all different that they fall in different categories?
It would be nice to know this and why this is? is it as a result of different Quranic interpretation or choosing to believe in different Hadiths?or both?Any differences on opinion / belief can lead a human or group of human to be labeled as different category.
Ranging from favorite imam, holy books, prophet, heroes, political view, ideology, holy sites, favorite football club, the best language, favorite smartphone brand.. anything you can think of..
I think knowing about the differences and the reasons behind them is a good way to find unity because you can find what went wrong more easily.
What's wrong is actually the mindset itself.. The SECTARIAN mindset.
That everyone MUST share the same opinion / belief.And unity should not be the goal.. but respect, tolerance and peaceful coexistence of people with differing opinion / belief.
That is the SIMILARITY among SECTARIAN..
They would not tolerate people with differing opinion / belief than their own group as set / dogmatized by the group leader.. -
Empathy, Jafar. Empathy.
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What's wrong is actually the mindset itself.. The SECTARIAN mindset.
That everyone MUST share the same opinion / belief.-[ Some among us have started a weird Quranist mindset not diff from what Sunnis and Shias have.
- BEFORE ANYONE OF YOU hadiths believing TERRORIST STEP TO ME KNOW Your Own Bull Shit Books
Shit HEAD Bukhari and Homos have Nothing To DO with ISLAM - hadith's is the Cancer diseases of Islam. But True Muslims Have The Cure.
source https//www.facebook.com/groups/HADITHOFMOHAMMED/
I think those words could have been put politely.
- BEFORE ANYONE OF YOU hadiths believing TERRORIST STEP TO ME KNOW Your Own Bull Shit Books
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I am not voluntarily trying to label people but the fact is these labels exists.
I have some shias,wahabi and ahmadi friends and I come from a sunni family.
My current opinion is that there is an identity crisis amongst muslims.
I don't know whether following the Quran only is the right method or not but one thing is sure, reading and at least trying to understand the Quran should be the primary task every muslim should take; however,this doesn't happen, no matter what group you analyse, they seem to know story and tasks but no understanding of where these methods come from or whether they have any correlation with the Quran or not.Some of you have mentioned how different groups try to lure you into joining them or some of their rituals but please understand that they are simply doing their job,that's what they believe in(it is obviously wrong if this sort of request if forced or results in violence)
I am trying to understand the Quran and ask questions to my friends from time to time and invite them to think about this and I don't think there's anything wrong with that either.Like Jafar explained, there will always be sects, this site it self is a sert of sect with multiple subsets where people have different opinions depending on the interpretation they get from the Quran. Does this mean that people in this site blaming sunnis,shias etc are effectively blaming themselves as well?
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I think they are all sitting in the same boat. Some people here seek to form a sectarian doctrine based on an interpretation of Quran that is the "absolute truth", and this is the same mindset as the other sects, and then attribute this doctrine with this website. To pick one understanding of something and then put it forth dogmatically and zealously is sectarian warning.
One is that some people here are nearly (or even for real) labeling others as disbelievers for not finding the term salat to mean a ritual prayer, and that even on those who take a more traditional understanding of Rabb and non-association than I do. Many have put forth sound arguments against (ritual) salat and one of them "kill them until they perform salat" but also practical logic and many other comparisons.
The sect of some of this website's members is very much like a traditional Sunni or Shia in that different thinking other than their approved scholarly approach is met quite zealously, dogmatically and arrogantly. Logic is not allowed on a dogmatic parameter but a consensual understanding is beyond questioning. It smells sectarian style a long way.
Most people who participate here do it because they have a common interest which is Quran and many are appreciating this scripture albeit not in the way others do yet they fall under the reasoning of "Quran alone" among "Islamic lore" even though some affirm the Bible for example to some extent. They are not fixated on Quran as the only truth there is but can find Rabb's guidance here and there, and often they find that words do not mean what people claim or have claimed such as "qatal", "salat ", "zakat" as they find no rational reason behind their origin. Some (like me) find that Jesus' words on merging with Rabb is not blasphemous but the ultimate aim and Rabb is not offended by that. Both Jesus and I do not claim that there is a Oneness beyond Rabb but the only way to exist is within it. 1 + 1 = 2, not 1. And the Rabb is greater (larger expanse/coverage) than us. But I am here because the forum is called 'Free-Minds' and discuss Quran so I expect some open-minded thinking.
There are also clear opponents of Quran such as 'Student of Allah', but this person is not only opposing Quran but a 'Higher Intelligence' completely. Fair enough.
There is also a person who nearly was atheist but changed his mind who is called Ahmad_Bilal albeit his perception of "god" is similar to mine (no skyman on the moon). He said my arguments saved his faith basically as his high intellect could not make Islam plausible logically but with mine it was possible for him to reconcile. He is not very active on the forum since few reason the way he does. I find it better he retained his faith than becoming an atheist, even if he adheres to a blasphemous faith according to religious zealotry.
Be safe
Amenuel -
I don't know whether following the Quran only is the right method or not but one thing is sure, reading and at least trying to understand the Quran should be the primary task every muslim should take
No matter how we approach Quran people here have two goals 1. Worship Allah alone 2. Worship Allah alone through the application of the Quran verses.
Like Jafar explained, there will always be sects, this site it self is a sert of sect with multiple subsets where people have different opinions depending on the interpretation they get from the Quran. Does this mean that people in this site blaming sunnis,shias etc are effectively blaming themselves as well?
I don't see it that way. Note that Jafar didn't mention that different sects are specifically based on Quran. He is talking about going overboard with an ideology and forcing others to agree with it. This forum is quite old, but we have not seen new sects forming from it. You need to read the quoted post from http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607400.msg366219#msg366219 to get an overall view of us and sunnis/shias.
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Thank you Man Of Faith, I have perceived this since I started frequenting this forum and honestly it was a feeling different than the one I was gonna expect.
I was expecting a more unified mentality on here as a result of everyone following the same scripture but after reading different people's view (especially those that are seem have achieved quite some knowledge through this practice of following the Quran only) I feel like there's some sort of very strong segregation in terms of views about what messages the Quran is trying to portray.@reel, I personally disagree at the moment about sects not being present in this forum. Maybe we have to classify this differently but we have multiples sets on this forum,this can be group of 2 -5 or 10 people, all with different views.
What I am struggling to understand and actually really scares me is that
Those that follow the hadith have views and opinions that are very different than what the Quran says, such gap between their thoughts and what the Quran says is comprehensible because they are technically following a different book; furthermore different sects are following different books so conflicts in terms of mentality/ideology are comprehensible between different sects.Here, on the other hand, everyone (at least to my understanding) is following the Quran only.
The general idea which I see most people agree with is that the Quran is complete and detailed and it doesn't allow speculations.
Yet, after reading different topics, it feels like that very distinctive views are achieved even from reading the same scripture(the Quran). These views are not just marginally different but quite different some time and this really scares me because I feel it shouldn't happen. -
@reel, I personally disagree at the moment about sects not being present in this forum. Maybe we have to classify this differently but we have multiples sets on this forum,this can be group of 2 -5 or 10 people, all with different views.
We do disagree. Two people may not agree with 10 others. But that is very common everywhere. Same thing goes in other fields. It is always possible for two biologists to disagree with research findings of 4 other biologists. But this does not mean they divide themselves into groups forever. They still call themselves biologists.
What I am struggling to understand and actually really scares me is that
Those that follow the hadith have views and opinions that are very different than what the Quran says, such gap between their thoughts and what the Quran says is comprehensible because they are technically following a different book; furthermore different sects are following different books so conflicts in terms of mentality/ideology are comprehensible between different sects.Here, on the other hand, everyone (at least to my understanding) is following the Quran only.
The general idea which I see most people agree with is that the Quran is complete and detailed and it doesn't allow speculations.
Yet, after reading different topics, it feels like that very distinctive views are achieved even from reading the same scripture(the Quran). These views are not just marginally different but quite different some time and this really scares me because I feel it shouldn't happen.The difference between us and them is simple We don't force each other to agree at gunpoint. And the disagreement is pretty much connected to what the sects did to Quran. They tried to justify their own desires by making Quran suitable to their lifestyle. They didn't change themselves according to what Quran commands. History has been altered. Corrupted people have turned into scholars. But don't go by what many of us say. Come to conclusion through your wisdom. That's what Quran instructs. If you are unsure about anything just stay open and keep researching.
peace
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Peace,
I personally didn't perceive this post as labelling people. I think NewFreeMind simply wants to understand the labels that people have already put on themselves.
NewFreeMind, there is a book called "After the Prophet The Epic Story of the Shia-Sunni Split in Islam." I have not read it yet, but I saw it received many good reviews. It may help you understand the origins and difference of the two most popular sects.
Peace.
As I travel through life, I realise how redundant labels are and how futile the human need to categorise people is.
Peace.
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We do disagree. Two people may not agree with 10 others. But that is very common everywhere. Same thing goes in other fields. It is always possible for two biologists to disagree with research findings of 4 other biologists. But this does not mean they divide themselves into groups forever. They still call themselves biologists.
However, this is not a common situation. Two biologist disagreeing on a research or a book is different than two people disagreeing on the holy book(Quran).
If we start with the premise that the Quran is the book of God,it does not have any contradiction, it's detailed and doesn't leave verses to speculation then the most logical outcome, at least from my understanding, is that views will be similar if not the same.A research or a book made by humans doesn't have those characteristics therefore having different views is understandable.
The difference between us and them is simple We don't force each other to agree at gunpoint. And the disagreement is pretty much connected to what the sects did to Quran. They tried to justify their own desires by making Quran suitable to their lifestyle. They didn't change themselves according to what Quran commands. History has been altered. Corrupted people have turned into scholars. But don't go by what many of us say. Come to conclusion through your wisdom. That's what Quran instructs. If you are unsure about anything just stay open and keep researching.
peaceAgain, this brings back my previous question. What guarantees that, what a person says in here it's not an attempt to justify their own desire and their own lifestyle?
If a common outcome is not achievable and multiple interpretations are allowed then how is this different than any other group? -
Peace,
As I travel through life, I realise how redundant labels are and how futile the human need to categorise people is.
Peace.
If you're referring to this topic then let me assure you that this topic isn't about labels.
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I am not voluntarily trying to label people but the fact is these labels exists.
I have some shias,wahabi and ahmadi friends and I come from a sunni family.
My current opinion is that there is an identity crisis amongst muslims.Labelling exist since ancient times...
Is the labelling itself a problem? NOPE IT's NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL..Example
A If you don't believe in X / agree with my opinion on Y then you're a KUFFAR. (A label KUFFAR)
B Well then I am a KUFFAR... So?A If you're a KUFFAR then you're not among us
A If you're a KUFFAR then you're INFERIOR compared to us MUSLIM
A If you're a KUFFAR then you will go to hell!
A If you're a KUFFAR then you must pay protection money to us MUSLIM
A If you're a KUFFAR then your blood is allowable to be shed!
A If you're a KUFFAR then YOU MUST BE KILLED to stop the spread of KUFURISM
A If you're a KUFFAR then YOU, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR TRIBE AND THOSE WHO SHARED THE SAME VIEW AS YOU MUST BE KILLED to stop the spread of KUFURISM
I don't know whether following the Quran only is the right method or not but one thing is sure, reading and at least trying to understand the Quran should be the primary task every muslim should take; however,this doesn't happen, no matter what group you analyse, they seem to know story and tasks but no understanding of where these methods come from or whether they have any correlation with the Quran or not.
Following your conscience is the right method...
God speaks through it..Some of you have mentioned how different groups try to lure you into joining them or some of their rituals but please understand that they are simply doing their job,that's what they believe in(it is obviously wrong if this sort of request if forced or results in violence)
I am trying to understand the Quran and ask questions to my friends from time to time and invite them to think about this and I don't think there's anything wrong with that either.Like Jafar explained, there will always be sects, this site it self is a sert of sect with multiple subsets where people have different opinions depending on the interpretation they get from the Quran. Does this mean that people in this site blaming sunnis,shias etc are effectively blaming themselves as well?
People blaming sunnis, shiites, jews, christians, the west, arabs, chinese, mexicans, danish, paki, indon, communist, capitalist are very effective on blaming other people (for any misfortune that befell upon them) while at the same time very ineffective on doing introspection / blaming themselves to see what's wrong inside them.
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However, this is not a common situation. Two biologist disagreeing on a research or a book is different than two people disagreeing on the holy book(Quran).
If we start with the premise that the Quran is the book of God,it does not have any contradiction, it's detailed and doesn't leave verses to speculation then the most logical outcome, at least from my understanding, is that views will be similar if not the same.A research or a book made by humans doesn't have those characteristics therefore having different views is understandable.
Then why do sectarian scholars have disagreement about verses concerned with killing infidels, not taking Christians and Jews as allies, whether to divorce a nonMulsim spouse and so on?
Why can't the average Muslim come to conclusion about such verses?
Why Muslims don't pray the same way globally?Quran comes from God, the creator of this universe. His language is never going to be easy for us to understand completely because our knowledge is limited.
Again, this brings back my previous question. What guarantees that, what a person says in here it's not an attempt to justify their own desire and their own lifestyle?
If a common outcome is not achievable and multiple interpretations are allowed then how is this different than any other group?I agree a few here do that. But I would not say the same about mods and members like Wakas, Hawk, Taro Hashi, good logic and many others. Have you ever seen them trying to justify their lifestyles through the verses? When these people disagree they don't depend on their cultures, but logic, language of the Quran and the idea that this book can't have contradictions.
About that multiple interpretations, as I said earlier, only if the earliest traditionalists didn't insert their own meanings to verses this problem would not have happened. You have to look at the difference between the first years of Islam versus what we have now.
Try searching for answers about the earliest days of Islam. These are some of the questions.
Why Middle East allowed women and people of other countries to participate in the academic field?
Why the Arab scientists got so interested in how the world worked?
Why did they hold to the idea of logic?
Why did they invent stuffs?
Why did they come up with the idea of free healthcare?
Why did the califs make it clear in Persia/Iraq that they would not force anyone to change their religions and culture? (it was broken by the next generation of government)
Why were they making fun of hadith scholars? The jokes were not different from what Charlie hebdo published.Back then there was no United States. The west itself was in the dark. Then what energized these people to go liberal? Do note that these same people before the arrival of Quran were burring their female daughters and persecuting anyone who didn't agree with their pagan religion.
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Then why do sectarian scholars have disagreement about verses concerned with killing infidels, not taking Christians and Jews as allies, whether to divorce a nonMulsim spouse and so on?
Why can't the average Muslim come to conclusion about such verses?
Why Muslims don't pray the same way globally?Quran comes from God, the creator of this universe. His language is never going to be easy for us to understand completely because our knowledge is limited.
I think you have misunderstood me here, you're talking about sectarians and muslims in general not agreeing on what the Quran says; this is absolutely normal as they are not just reading the Quran but are also influenced by the Hadiths; In a situation where different groups look at different books,it is normal to have such distinctive views.
My previous post was referred to this forum or in general to the people that follow the Quran only and what I said was
However, this is not a common situation. Two biologist disagreeing on a research or a book is different than two people disagreeing on the holy book(Quran).
If we start with the premise that the Quran is the book of God,it does not have any contradiction, it's detailed and doesn't leave verses to speculation then the most logical outcome, at least from my understanding, is that views will be similar if not the same.A research or a book made by humans doesn't have those characteristics therefore having different views is understandable.
I agree a few here do that. But I would not say the same about mods and members like Wakas, Hawk, Taro Hashi, good logic and many others. Have you ever seen them trying to justify their lifestyles through the verses? When these people disagree they don't depend on their cultures, but logic, language of the Quran and the idea that this book can't have contradictions.
About that multiple interpretations, as I said earlier, only if the earliest traditionalists didn't insert their own meanings to verses this problem would not have happened. You have to look at the difference between the first years of Islam versus what we have now.
Try searching for answers about the earliest days of Islam. These are some of the questions.
Why Middle East allowed women and people of other countries to participate in the academic field?
Why the Arab scientists got so interested in how the world worked?
Why did they hold to the idea of logic?
Why did they invent stuffs?
Why did they come up with the idea of free healthcare?
Why did the califs make it clear in Persia/Iraq that they would not force anyone to change their religions and culture? (it was broken by the next generation of government)
Why were they making fun of hadith scholars? The jokes were not different from what Charlie hebdo published.Back then there was no United States. The west itself was in the dark. Then what energized these people to go liberal? Do note that these same people before the arrival of Quran were burring their female daughters and persecuting anyone who didn't agree with their pagan religion.
Very interesting questions, I will definitely look into these questions.Thank you
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I think you have misunderstood me here, you're talking about sectarians and muslims in general not agreeing on what the Quran says; this is absolutely normal as they are not just reading the Quran but are also influenced by the Hadiths; In a situation where different groups look at different books,it is normal to have such distinctive views.
I actually forgot to mention something. We do require some external knowledge to understand Quran. It has lots of things from almost all areas of our lives. So even experience and observation matter. Unfortunately, we are not educated in every field and don't live in the same country for which it can be difficult for the agreement occur. But the search is still on.
There was certainly in their stories a lesson for those of understanding. Never was the Qur'an a narration invented, but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe.16116
Its better than giving into hadith myths because according to Allah
Indeed, those who conceal what We sent down of clear proofs and guidance after We made it clear for the people in the Scripture - those are cursed by Allah and cursed by those who curse 2159
Hadiths violate Quran by concealing what is made lawful to us....they conceal the good character of the Prophet...and much more.
Very interesting questions, I will definitely look into these questions.Thank you
You're welcome
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I actually forgot to mention something. We do require some external knowledge to understand Quran. It has lots of things from almost all areas of our lives. So even experience and observation matter. Unfortunately, we are not educated in every field and don't live in the same country for which it can be difficult for the agreement occur. But the search is still on.
There was certainly in their stories a lesson for those of understanding. Never was the Qur'an a narration invented, but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe.16116
Its better than giving into hadith myths because according to Allah
Indeed, those who conceal what We sent down of clear proofs and guidance after We made it clear for the people in the Scripture - those are cursed by Allah and cursed by those who curse 2159
Hadiths violate Quran by concealing what is made lawful to us....they conceal the good character of the Prophet...and much more.
You're welcome )hey
remember the rosetta stone, even learning the language can be in the book. you just have less understand to relate it too both back to sects, ALLAH saids in the quran he'll gather all the sects together and throw them in the fires of hell, I think in surah al nahl, and it says be not of them. I had times where the masjid on Fridays was a struggle but I simply stopped going and stayed away from sectarianist, the religion in surah 2 or 3 is Abrahamic monotheism and we are instructed to follow the ways of prophet Abraham the true in faith, I look back at sunni islam and ask who was muhammed? I also experienced some time being a shite among all sunnis and that was cool. being in a small click, a small circle in a wave of sunnis being right in debate, preaching our ideals and changing the hearts of a few sunnis. yet ALLAH also says in the quran the unbelievers are steeped in self-glory and separatism?if they follow other than prophet Abraham they are sectarianist, recall all prophets were solidtary people in a big crowd of people; to follow Abraham we live his experience do you think that the meccans who were enemies to muhammed are on the right path today? are they suppose to be wahabis? and why is the prophet Abraham's name never brought up in public? I've never heard a hajji tell me about how they circled the prophet Abraham's house.
do you think that these people sunnis shia or sufi or any sectarianist knows anything about the faith when they don't know the prophet Abraham? he was a friend of ALLAH!