jahannamu
-
Salaam Ash Shuura,
Salaam Taj,
Jahama/Jahima
To meet with a frowning face, have a stern look, look with a severe, morose and contracted face. Jahmatun The darkest part of the night. Juham waterless cloud. Jahannam Gehenna, Hell; place of punishment which is dark and waterless and which makes the faces of its inmates ugly and contracted.
Under this main heading it continues ...Jahannam n Gehenna. The word has been used in the Holy Qur'an 77 times.
Wa'salaam
I am using Abdul Mannan Omar
Is that the copy of the pp107 (Jim-Ha-mim) that you mentioned? If so, then Abdul Mannan Omar has made a mistake when he slipped the word' Jahannam' under Jahama/Jahima . This is too bad. The two words has nothing to do with each other.
And what is 'Gehenna', btw!? Does the writer mean the root (Jeem-Haa-Noon)? But that root is for another word altogether!Taj
-
Salaam Kyle,
So "jahannamu" means what? D
It is the name of one place in Hell. Sometimes the sound of the letters that come together to make a certain word would give us a clue whether the word has a sad meaning or a happy meaning or whatever else.. and that would be all we can get... Sometimes the Quran would give us the meaning. What does the word 'Jahannam' refers to in the Quran? A place in Hell? Then that is the meaning! Isn't that enough?
Taj
-
Peace be upon you Taj,
What does the word 'Jahannam' refers to in the Quran? A place in Hell? Then that is the meaning! Isn't that enough?
No.
-
Is that the copy of the pp107 (Jim-Ha-mim) that you mentioned? If so, then Abdul Mannan Omar has made a mistake when he slipped the word' Jahannam' under Jahama/Jahima . This is too bad. The two words has nothing to do with each other.
Salaam Taj,
Yes indeed it is. I don't think I quite understand your position. Are you implying that this word is non arabic while the Qur'an said it is in plain Arabic? Or are you arguing that this word has another arabic root?
We all know about interactions of languages, there are so many arabic words in turkish for example and vice versa, which I understand Qur'an is immune to. Hence, this word should be arabic. If you're saying its foreign how do you reconcile with the fact that Qur'an told you it is in plain Arabic?
-
salam guys,
i have some time given the holidays, so i popped in and found this most interesting thread. great discussion guys. Let me add my 2 cents if i may.
I think there are a few ways to determine the truth behind jahannam.. 1) linguistic analysis of the word 2) analysis of the Quranic ayaat and words related to jahannam (jaheem etc) 3) since we know that there are only 2 end results, jannah or jahannam.. jahannam may be taken to be the opposite of jannah.
One part of this thread deals with the linguistic analysis of the word "jahannam." Idolfree asks a valid question, as far as what this word linguistically might mean, so that this may shed some light on its meaning in the context of the Quran.
There were a few posts which deal with excerpts from a most inaccurate Quranic "dictionary." This dictionary, it appears, time and time again classifies certain different words under the same root. Jahannam apparently is yet another example. The word jahannam has nothing to do with jaheem (linguistically speaking) and nothing to do with jahm either. You dont have to take my word for it, just open any lexicon or learn the grammar of Arabic word constructions and it will be abundantly obvious.
The lexicographers that I have read, seem to be unanimous in their decision that the word jahannam is not of Arabic origin. (A side comment to those who believe Arabic is a magical language or the "mother of all languages," and is "pure" etc etc etc... just go and study history and study the semetic languages before coming to such conclusions). And indeed, if you look at the Hebrew language (which predates Arabic) lo and behold they have the word Gehinom. The Hebrew scholars feel that this word is derived from Ge which means valley, and Hinnom who was a king who upheld the practice (near Jerusalem) of offering live sacrifices of people including children, by burning, to their God. So if you accept this line of linguistic analysis, jahannam might refer to a place where mankind is sacrificed and burned. If you dont accept this line of linguistic analysis, i'd be very interested in seeing some alternate theories (theories that don't ignore the very basic rules of grammar and word construction.. note i use the word ignore. disproving existing grammar rules based on evidence, and providing new theories is one thing... but simply ignoring the rules is careless).
And if you supplement this understanding with other things the Quran has mentioned, such as in 178 where it is described as a "haseer" for the kaafireen, translated as prison but also with a meaning of holding someone back or stationary, stagnant. The Quran is a guidance in how to be productive and advance, and other paths will always lead to problems which keep men chasing their own tails, sacrificing their humanity and potential in a jahannam of their own creation. Those in a jahannam in this world will transfer into the next life in that state... and those in a state of jannah which is marked by human advancement and progress, will transfer into the next life in that state. I am sure lots more can be said on this topic.
wassalam
-
Peace be upon you Taj,
I need to know what "hell" is? I need to know what vision should come in my mind. Like when I see "Jannah" I think of a garden. If "Jahannam" meant fire, I could envision fire and burning, which I do realize it a characteristic of "hell", but what characteristic does "Jahannam" bring to the table of thought?
Do you see what I am saying?
-
salam guys,
The lexicographers that I have read, seem to be unanimous in their decision that the word jahannam is not of Arabic origin.
Salaam shuaib,
I have asked Taj the same question, it seems to have gone unnoticed. How do you reconcile this opinion of yours with Qur'an being in plain Arabic? what you seem to be saying is there is inclusion of foreign languages.
3928
"Progressive Muslims"
A Quran in Arabic, without any crookedness, that they may be righteous.413
"Progressive Muslims"
A Scripture whose verses are detailed, a Quran in Arabic, for a people who know.Wa'salaam
-
Peace Ash Shuura,
I have been following this discussion for some time and had some thoughts/questions regarding the subject you bring up in your post...
Plain arabic would be in the arabic language of the time it was revealed it? The arabic language of the people/region it was revealed in? What we call classical arabic now i think...
The questions/thoughts are, arabic didn't just come on the scene magically, it must have evolved from somewhere, like all languages...i would find it difficult to name a language that didn't evolve from something else...for example, the word mathalan in arabic is essentially very similar to the word maslan in urdu...urdu is a combination of arabic, persian and sanskrit...so the point is, it wouldn't be hard to find words in similar languages that share the same meaning...like bet in hebrew means bayt in arabic...and a host of other different words...
What would be arabic might have words particular to that language that shares meanings and are essentially similar to for lack of a better word sister languages...this means that a word in arabic might share the same connotations and meaning even the same structure as another in a similar language...This wouldn't change the fact that that particular word is part of the same arabic language..
Now when we come across the words pure and plain arabic in the quran, does that mean that the words in that arabic language do not share some similarities to another word in another language? Or would that mean that the pure and plain arabic is a word for easy to understand classical arabic of the time?
Just some thoughts...looking forward to explanations from everyone!
Nadia
-
Salam Ash Shuura,
I have asked Taj the same question, it seems to have gone unnoticed.
Your statement here is formed in pure english language, that doesn't contradict the fact that the words "question" and "notice" are coming from latin origin.
The verses you are quoting from the Quran don't say, that these words must be having an arabic origin and can not be adopted from other languages. Besides, I fail to see which arabic word you translate for "pure/plain" .
Any language can adopt words from other languages and use them in a native way, take as an example all european languages.
Just my opinion and thus agreeing with the opinion of savage_carrot.
Best regards,
sabo -
Peace all,
I just read this and realise it's an old post but I wanted to make it clear that I think that this is the kind of stuff one must be wary of.
Personally, I do believe that Arabic is the mother of all languages and I constantly realize and become convinced that words from Latin, Greek, Persian are originally Arabic and not the other way around. That is my very personal intake which even goes against the Arabic Language giants. But I cannot insist on my personal belief and understanding because every time I do, for I am an Arab, I would be considerd racist, boastful, etc.. So I always keep that conviction to myself.
Except for when you write it on a public forum!
This is the kind of nationalistic dogma that spawns insidious Arab imperialism in the guise of a way of God. It's this sort of rubbish that leads people to believe that the language of Heaven will be Arabic and that muslims must have Arabised names etc.
God has created all the languages and given man diversity as a sign. To claim such nonsense as what you have here is anti-intellectual and anti-God.
You are clearly giving precedence to your ego.
So anyway, those are my personal thoughts that I am a bit cautious spreading because most non-Arabs get very offensive every time the richness and exclusivity of Arabic is emphasized!
TajPhilologists have long recognised that all human languages have 'richness' and no language is exclusive. The semitic languages are certainly unique in their own particular structures but far from being a 'mother tongue'. Arabic is in fact a deficient language in that it lacks fundamental verbs such as "to have" and "to be".
Even in the early history of Islam Persian was able to completely dominate Arabic as a language of knowledge, art and religious thinking despite the Koran being written in Arabic.
So please do not spread misinformation, however I am pleased that you at least acknowledge your strong bias.
Regards.
-
The origin is by many believed to be persian and is there known as gahnam. I'm pretty sure it goes back to Avestan.
Peace be upon you,
I have been making an error which i would like to fix. I have been thinking that there was no word for "hell", only the allegory of "fire" but in my searching I realized the word translated as "hell" is "jahannamu", what is the meaning of the root word for "jahannamu"?