DARABA in 47:4 ???

herbman

Dear All,

I read a previous post as background regarding the mentionned verse
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8886.msg30667#msg30667

the topic was about the term fadraba riqab literaly translate by Hit the necks while Riqab means "slaves/captives"
Some people in the topic translated daraba by "seprate".
The problem I have with that translation is that the verse does not have sense anymore when you meet the kafirs , separate the captives until you subdue them then do this do that...

We all know DARABA has multiple meaning depending on context among these meanings

source PRL

= Daad-Ra-Ba = to heal, strike, propound as an example, put forth a parable, go, make a journey, travel, mix, avoid, take away, put a cover, shut, mention/declare/state, propound, set forth, compare, liken, seek a way, march on, set, impose, prevent, fight, traffic with anyone's property for a share in the profit, he made or caused to be or constituted, leave/forsake, take away thing (with 'an).
Depressed ground, hard ground in a plain, sandy valley, commissioner as he has to travel much.
Kind manner, lean, thin, similar, alike, the act of striking, a blow, going from place to place, vicissitude of life, affliction especially that which relates to one's person, as disease, death, degradation is common and general suffering.

beat, struck, smote, hit, the making a thing fall upon another thing, discipline/train, to cast forth, threw or flung it, seal/stamp, veil/curtain/cover/barrier, to point or make a sign, prohibit/hinder/prevent/withheld/restrain, collision, corrupted/disordered/disturbance/unsettled/confused, turn away, avoid, shun, fashion/mould/adapt, mention or set forth (e.g. a parable/example), explain, make a way, multiplying, go/travel, went away, it was or became long, excite/incite/urge/instigate, contend, dispose/accommodate, retract/digression/transition, to silence, tremble/shiver, share/portion.
Location where something is struck, wool or goat's hair separated or plucked or beaten with a mallet, sword, tent-peg, mallet.
daraba vb. (I) - perf. act. 3156, 494, 4101, 5106, 1424, 1445, 1675, 1676, 16112, 1748, 1811, 259, 2539, 3028, 3058, 3678, 3927, 3929, 4317, 4358, 6610, 6611,
impf. act. 226, 850, 1317, 1317, 1425, 1674, 2431, 2431, 2435, 2943, 435, 473, 4727, 5921, 7320,
impv. 260, 273, 434, 7160, 812, 812, 1832, 1845, 2077, 2663, 3613, 3844,
perf. pass. 261, 3112, 3112, 2273, 4357, 5713,
n. vb. 2273, 3793, 474

Lane?s Lexicon, Volume 5, pages 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=DRB

The context is clearly mentioned in the verse itself with the keyword THE WAR and subdue

So what is the verse saying?

474
When you meet the kafirs

multiply the captives

until you subdue them

then bind firmly the bond

then either (it's time for) either generosity or ransom until the war lays down its burdens (Yusuf Ali translation)

Thus (are ye commanded) but if it had been Allah's Will, he could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of Allah he will never let their deeds be lost. (Yusuf Ali)

Conclusion

the term RIQAB is clearly talking about "war captives" this meaning of Riqab is clearly highlighted by the terms generosity and ransom = free a captive for free (generosity) or ask for ransom (normal rule of war)

DARABA here would mean MULTIPLY and this fits perfectly in the context, MULTIPLY the captives during war instead of KILLING the enemies!!!!!
This meaning is enforced with 2 senteces

then bind firmly the bond
(He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others

Indeed in the context of war, it is far easier to kill your enemy then make him captive and be firm with the bond

What about daraba meaning MULTIPLY in cross reference

again this fits perfectly in all verses where the formula darab allhu mathalan "ALLAH multiplies the examples" usually translated by "Allah sets forth, for an example"

Peace
Your comments are welcome (I am sure Mr Wakas will do)

Wakas

Similar to this rendition
http//www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part1

fa darba al rriqabi hattaitha athkhantumoohum = so strike the necks until when you have overcome them

Some use "hit", "smite", "strike-off". Whilst this is the most common translation, it should be noted that it is taken by many as an idiom (e.g. Al-Jalalayn, Ibn Kathir), meaning slay or kill. This seems a plausible interpretation as in a battle of swords and arrows no commander would order his soldiers to aim for the necks alone. Similarly, "put forth" could also be used. Interestingly, Mustansir Mir's book mentions a similar expression "daraba raqabatahu" and renders it as "to cut off somebody's head / kill somebody".

However, upon closer examination, there is an alternative translation, which seems the most likely based on the evidence

So, when you encounter those who have rejected/concealed, then put forth /bring about the captives; until when you have subdued/overcome them, then strengthen the bind. Then after either grace/favour or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. That, and had God willed, surely He would have gained victory Himself from them, but He tests some of you with others. And those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.

Notes for the above translation

"darba" is a verbal noun, indicating the act of doing as well as the noun itself, e.g. then putting forth / bringing about the captives.
In a battle of swords and arrows no commander would order his soldiers to aim for the necks alone.
RQB is NEVER used to mean neck elsewhere in The Quran, as the word for neck is "unuq" (as used in 812 also with DRB). RQB is always used to mean slaves/captives.
If they were supposed to be beheaded, there would not be a need for an instruction regarding captives. Thus to overcome this apparent omission, many traditional commentators translate "fa shuddoo al wathaqa" as "then tie the bond" and say this refers to taking prisoners of war. However, the word "strengthen/tighten (Arabic shuddoo)" implies a pre-existing thing to strengthen/tighten (see its usage in 3820, 7628, 2835, 1088, 2031), but if this is true, where is it in context? It can only relate to "darba al rriqabi", and thus provides strong proof that this phrase is about bringing about captives from the enemy.
This translation makes sense because during open/active fighting, the captives may not be totally secure, and could only really be secured once the enemy has been subdued/overcome. Thus, this verse is implying aim to bring about captives, not necessarily kill them, which shows mercy and less aggression in such a situation, even if it means getting killed.
One meaning of DaRaBa found in Lane's Lexicon is "he made or caused to be or constituted" which is similar to the suggested meaning discussed above.
I am not aware of a Classical Arabic Dictionary which references verse 474 under the root entry of DRB or RQB.
474 refers to those mentioned in the previous verses, going by its use of connective particle "fa", then these people were not fighting or killing, thus killing them may violate the law of equivalence .
Interestingly, Traditional Tafsirs (altafsir.com) also mention this possibility along with the common understanding. Ibn 'Abbas "...and taken them prisoners, (then making fast of bonds) keep the prisoners in captivity...". Tafsir al-Jalalayn "...take them captive and bind firmly, the bonds (al-wathq is what is used to bind a captive).".

As a side note, it is interesting to note the difference in phrasing of this verse compared to 812, giving further weight to each of them having different meanings as discussed.

herbman

Thanks Wakas for your reply.

SO we agree on the term RIQAB = captives

Now please help me understand cause english is not my mother tong, please clarify what does this mean

"So, when you encounter those who have rejected/concealed, then put forth /bring about the captives"

Form me this sentence has no sense.

Thanks

Wakas

Note underlined

"So, when you encounter those who have rejected/concealed, then put forth /bring about the captives"

Quote

...and thus provides strong proof that this phrase is about bringing about captives from the enemy.

...Thus, this verse is implying aim to bring about captives, not necessarily kill them...

One meaning of DaRaBa found in Lane's Lexicon is "he made or caused to be or constituted" which is similar to the suggested meaning discussed above.

Traditional Tafsirs (altafsir.com) also mention this possibility along with the common understanding. Ibn 'Abbas "...and taken them prisoners, (then making fast of bonds) keep the prisoners in captivity...". Tafsir al-Jalalayn "...take them captive and bind firmly, the bonds (al-wathq is what is used to bind a captive).".

In other words take/make (i.e. bring about, put forth) captives.

Similar to your translation of "multiply" captives (but your rendition implies existing captives, to be multiplied), and my rendition fits better with other DRB usage.

Mazhar

With prefixed apodosis particle it is a possessive phrase. Firsy verbal noun is also definite by construct. It is in accusative case. Firstly, its role need be determined before we ascertain its semantics.

Mazhar

Possessive phrase is Cognate advers for elided verb.

Thereby, when in response you have met face to face in battlefield with those who denied believing
The obvious target for both warring parties are the necks-human bodies-mutual hitting till such point in time during the currency of fight that you have succeeded in overpowering respective opponents - have made them exhausted-subdued-drop weapons.
Thereat you you are hereby directed to firmly buckle up - arrest such subdued enemies as prisoners of war since the question of releasing them as gesture of obliging favour, or on ransom arises afterwards when the war may surrender-lay down the weapons-enemy has accepted defeat.
Although if Allah the Exalted so willed, certainly He the Exalted could have punished them at His Own accord.
But the purpose of prescribing confronting imposed war is that He the Exalted might subject to a liquefying test some of you through some others.
And those who were killed in the Cause of Allah the Exalted
Certainly are convinced that He the Exalted will never let their deeds go unrecognized -unappreciated.

herbman

Thanks both for your input