How We Could Eradicate And Fight The Religious Racism & Hate???
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100,000,000 Evangelical fundamentalist Americans
If you meant the Evangelical christians then know the money is talking. They get lots of money from Israel to promote zionist agenda which pretty much is an irony since Israel itself is depended on our aid. But yeah, I heard normal Americans saying the same. It was a little too scary to hear "why not just nuke the entire middle east and end the problem for good" over a starbucks coffee -\
they are not less dangerous than ISIS...
This is what came in my head when I heard that. I have traveled a lot. Never heard this as something normal in other countries....not even the racist middle easterns ever made such comment.
At one point (in the future) Muslim will also evolve to dump the bigotry and supremacist teaching..
Supremacist teaching will be replaced by another kind of supremacist teaching. Humans are fond of being supremacists.
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It was a little too scary to hear "why not just nuke the entire middle east and end the problem for good" over a starbucks coffee
Well, that is a pretty common everyday opinion. I have even heard my own father express that at times and he is not really some warmongering person. I suppose people are extremely tired of the unrest "down there" and think that a full wipe out of the whole region would be the only solution.
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Hi Jafar,
I don't know about Catholics, but I know there are about 100,000,000 Evangelical fundamentalist Americans who want their "Armageddon" in the Middle East. That is one third of the American population who actually believe this, they are not less dangerous than ISIS...
I doubted the 100 mill number.. they're much less than that in number..
And... decreasing.... Irreligion is on the rise in the US (and also on many other countries of the world)
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_the_United_StatesThe kuffar/infidel/apostate irreligious are rising rapidly and very soon will reach the 100 mill mark in the US alone..
Supremacist teaching will be replaced by another kind of supremacist teaching. Humans are fond of being supremacists.
Not necessarily, the germans and japanese, who used to be a supremacist fascistic society are generally more humble now, compared to the situation around 80-100 years ago..
What changes them?
A very hard lesson on humility.. (read being utterly humiliated and destroyed in WWII)This is a recurring pattern throughout the human history..
Those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humbled themselves will be exalted
Matt 2312Muslim/Arabs/Jews is no exception, they had their lessons in the past (devastated by Roman, Mongols and Turks) and soon they will went through another round of lesson too.. which again make (or forced) them to be more humble..
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This is what came in my head when I heard that. I have traveled a lot. Never heard this as something normal in other countries....not even the racist middle easterns ever made such comment.
Yes, Evangelical Christian-Zionists are really some of the most evil and insane people on earth, definitely on par with wahabis/salafis. They would definitely kill millions for their God. In fact they are already doing it in the Middle East.
Supremacist teaching will be replaced by another kind of supremacist teaching. Humans are fond of being supremacists.
I'm happy to hear there are others who think like me. Yes, that is so true, people will, for example, worship their own race or some stupid ideology and even go to war over it. They will always find a reason to hate and demonize others. Lust for money, power and domination over others is of course the most important motive for such criminal and immoral behaviour. This is one thing that never changes.
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Well, that is a pretty common everyday opinion. I have even heard my own father express that at times and he is not really some warmongering person. I suppose people are extremely tired of the unrest "down there" and think that a full wipe out of the whole region would be the only solution.
True, but they don't say this about Israel, which is just as evil as Saudi Arabia.
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Muslim/Arabs/Jews is no exception, they had their lessons in the past (devastated by Roman, Mongols and Turks) and soon they will went through another round of lesson too.. which again make (or forced) them to be more humble..
I agree, Muslims probably have to experience much more suffering than they have so far in order to change their ways.
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Peace Jafar,
The less religious one society is the better they are.. more humble.. more wise..
Absolutely true.. is it a coincidence that the most religious countries in the world are the same countries where violence, racism, oppression, corruption and all sorts of immoral behaviour is the highest in the world?
I never attended Friday prayer, purely because I never get any enlightenment from attending such doctrinal session
I agree.. the most morally corrupt, backward and oppressive countries in the world are countries where people perform religious rituals the most, such as Saudi Arabia... generally speaking, the more religious a person becomes, the more a threat he becomes to his country and the world as a whole.
All those religious rituals they think will get them to eternal Paradise never leads to them becoming better human beings.. they don't become more moral or more humble people... those who behead innocent people fast and pray 5 times a day....
Making sure you're still muslim? Just recite the shahada, there.. you're a muslim (again)..
That's the requirement to be muslim according to their own doctrine right?This is another important point, it's so incredibly simple to enter Heaven according to the (ridiculous) Islamic doctrine. Just say "I believe in Allah and Muhammed is his Messenger" and in just 2 seconds you will secure a place in eternal Paradise. You can also decide to enter eternal Hell in only 2 seconds, by saying the opposite; "No, there is no God and Muhammed is not his Messenger". Then again you can secure your place in Heaven in 2 seconds without doing anything of value... by doing absolutely nothing of value, by contributing nothing to humanity, justice or peace in the world...
It doesn't matter how many people you oppress or murder, or how many good deeds you do, or don't do. The only thing that matters is blind "belief", which is something that has no benefit for anyone, for any living creature or anything. Why would it matter what I "believe" or not? Is God so insecure that He needs my belief in Him or else He will suffer? Is He so weak? Or is God a psychopath that He will burn all those who don't believe in Him in an eternal Hellfire? Billions of people are living in poverty, there are so many wars, suffering, destruction of the environment and so many other much more important things that we must work to solve. But all those don't matter according to Muslims... just believe in God and pray 5 times a day and you will enter Heaven.. nothing else matters.
By making them less fanatics to their own religion.. The root cause which drive such attitude is; they feel insecure and unsure about their own belief..
Because they don't believe in their own belief, it was instilled upon them by somebody else. (clerics, ulema, sultan, caliph, king, parents etc..)
That'w why they get anxious and nervous when somebody said something which in contrary to their own belief..I think you are right again.. Because I used to personally get angry when people said "bad things" about some verses in the Qur'an, for example... Deep down I knew they were right, but I could not let go, I could not admit the horrible truth. I was also very afraid to become a murtad /apostate. I thought I would go to hell, if I had doubt about even a single letter in the Qur'an... because we have been so brainwashed and terrorized from childhood into believing dogmas...
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Hello Recluse,
I suppose my father included Israel as well though. I also think a lot of people do not care whether you bomb Israel either, just wipe out the troubling nations where Israel is included. The majority of these people are not serious about their comment though I think but they speak jokingly "might be best if they just nuke the place". It is the same as saying "there is no hope for these people to solve anything".
Most people agree it is religion which is a problem for the unrest in these countries too.
It is hard to convince these religious nuts that they are wrong about what they put their faith in. It is hard to convince them that jihad is not about forcing your faith on others when a grand deal of their religious scripture speaks of religious indoctrination. In chapter 9 of Quran it is quite explicit, kill them until they perform salat. There is much encouragement to go to war about what you believe in and the interpretation of what is a valid reason is vague.
And Quran does also (in its sectarian interpretation) say the prophets made their children to observe salat, so there is religious indoctrination of the offspring too. The message is that you should make everyone follow this interpretation of Islam.
The only way would be convincing them that their scripture is wrong (even if it is by interpretation). They would need to change their whole perception of what God/Rabb is.
Be well
Amenuel -
Hello Recluse,
It is hard to convince these religious nuts that they are wrong about what they put their faith in. It is hard to convince them that jihad is not about forcing your faith on others when a grand deal of their religious scripture speaks of religious indoctrination. In chapter 9 of Quran it is quite explicit, kill them until they perform salat. There is much encouragement to go to war about what you believe in and the interpretation of what is a valid reason is vague.
Hi Emanuel.
That's right, in my opinion there can only be two possibilities; either the Qur'an is entirely man-made (pure fabrication), or most things in the Qur'an are not to be taken literal at all due to being historical-regional-cultural relating only to the situation of the Arabs of 1400 years ago. I think the latter is true. The only truly universal notions or rules in the Qur'an are not to kill, steal, lie etc. Isn't it telling to note that the most oppressive, immoral and backward country in the world is the country where Islam originated? If this doesn't make people think then probably nothing will.
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Hi Emanuel.
That's right, in my opinion there can be only two possibilities; either the Qur'an is entirely man-made (pure fabrication), or most things in the Qur'an are not to be taken literal at all due to being historical-regional-cultural relating only to the situation of the Arabs of 1400 years ago. I think the latter is true.
Hi,
Red I think if the quran speaks the truth then there is no reason to not take it literal except where it explicitly state that something is a parable.
Green I think you can only get these kind of interpretations if you read the quran with hadiths in mind. In my experience there is not a single verse in the quran which is historical-regional-cultural related. -
All those religious rituals they think will get them to eternal Paradise never leads to them becoming better human beings.. they don't become more moral or more humble people... those who behead innocent people fast and pray 5 times a day....
Ritual is the most important.. we need to dedicate all of our time and resources for rituals..
Through ritual, God will be pleased..
And if God is pleased then He will..
(Give you rain, grant you children, grant you wealth, grant you good harvest, grant you paradise with 72 virgins.. etc.. take your pick)Much credits to the Ancient Egyptian civilization.. they're the one who invented such line of thinking..
Thus no wonder such line of thinking exist predominantly in society within the Egyptian sphere of influence....This is another important point, it's so incredibly simple to enter Heaven according to the (ridiculous) Islamic doctrine. Just say "I believe in Allah and Muhammed is his Messenger" and in just 2 seconds you will secure a place in eternal Paradise. You can also decide to enter eternal Hell in only 2 seconds, by saying the opposite; "No, there is no God and Muhammed is not his Messenger". Then again you can secure your place in Heaven in 2 seconds without doing anything of value... by doing absolutely nothing of value, by contributing nothing to humanity, justice or peace in the world...
http//loudmouthblog.dramaqueenworkshops.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/forgiveness-murderer.jpg
Due to tough competition with competing religion (read Christianity), the inventor of Islam need to came up with something which at least equivalent or better to attract new member to the religion.
It doesn't matter how many people you oppress or murder, or how many good deeds you do, or don't do. The only thing that matters is blind "belief", which is something that has no benefit for anyone, for any living creature or anything. Why would it matter what I "believe" or not? Is God so insecure that He needs my belief in Him or else He will suffer? Is He so weak? Or is God a psychopath that He will burn all those who don't believe in Him in an eternal Hellfire? Billions of people are living in poverty, there are so many wars, suffering, destruction of the environment and so many other much more important things that we must work to solve. But all those don't matter according to Muslims... just believe in God and pray 5 times a day and you will enter Heaven.. nothing else matters.
Again kudos to the Ancient Egypt civilization...
Through correct belief you will be saved..
Saved from what?
From torture in the afterlife.. by Osiris, the God who carries sickle everywhere he goes.. and guard the underworld..Another legacy from Ancient Egypt is the (odd) conception of "intermediaries" (Syafaat).. between Heaven and earth..
But well.. that's a long story... perhaps another time..I think you are right again.. Because I used to personally get angry when people said "bad things" about some verses in the Qur'an, for example... Deep down I knew they were right, but I could not let go, I could not admit the horrible truth. I was also very afraid to become a murtad /apostate. I thought I would go to hell, if I had doubt about even a single letter in the Qur'an... because we have been so brainwashed and terrorized from childhood into believing dogmas...
Yup.. correct belief shall saved you from torture by Osiris...
And to ensure your salvation you need to belief in a holy and divinely authored book..
Furthermore to really really secure your salvation you need to buy and own the book... which cost around $200,000 if it's today's currency.. Again kudos to the Ancient Egyptian...Salam / Peace
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Hi Emanuel.
That's right, in my opinion there can only be two possibilities; either the Qur'an is entirely man-made (pure fabrication), or most things in the Qur'an are not to be taken literal at all due to being historical-regional-cultural relating only to the situation of the Arabs of 1400 years ago. I think the latter is true. The only truly universal concepts in the Qur'an are not to kill, steal, lie etc. Isn't it telling to note that the most oppressive, immoral and backward country in the world is the country where Islam originated? If this doesn't make people think then probably nothing will.
The Quran (and any other book claimed to be divine ) is definitely man made..
But just because it's man made doesn't necessarily mean all of the content / idea conveyed inside are false...
Some might be true and some other might be false.. -
Hi,
In my experience there is not a single verse in the quran which is historical-regional-cultural related.Hi Bender,
Unfortunately I used to (force myself) to think like that too because I was blinded by indoctrination and fear of Hellfire. There are so many things in the Qur'an that don't and can't apply to us today, but it's imposible for me to list all of them now. To give only a few examples; slavery is not banned in the Qur'an; inheritance for male-female is not just; the fact that women must "obey" their husbands, which nobody in his right mind will accept today. This doesn't mean that God is "stupid" or that He is evil. 1400 years ago, God could not have told those Arabs that they should have "democracy", male-female equality etc. because their socio-cultural-economic situation was entirely different to ours. Their economy was entirely based on slavery for example. That is why slavery could not be abolished immediately. You could read some of Fazlur Rahman's works, there are many other Islamic "scholars" who say what I'm saying, it's nothing new. In English this is called "historicity", I believe.
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slavery is not banned in the Qur'an
Slavery is not banned in today's world either. It just goes by different names like workers, servants, employees, etc. In the government especially, it is too common. Think about soldiers. Oh, and we have here something called drafting. The civilian males can be put into jail for dishonoring it.
inheritance for male-female is not just
In my view, the way the law is interpreted is wrong because God is logical. I have shown lots of problems in how this is not a justified law..like what if the girls in the family are more educated and the son is an alcoholic, gambler, etc.
the fact that women must "obey" their husbands
I haven't seen a verse on that. There is only a verse on homemakers who are told to not abuse the time when husbands are not at home.
1400 years ago, God could not have told those Arabs that they should have "democracy", male-female equality etc.
1400 years ago, God told them to apply democracy which the Arabs did for awhile. But then the Persians changed it into dictatorship while making sure to prevent people from understanding the Quran on their own.
because their socio-cultural-economic situation was entirely different to ours.
One can improve socio-cultural economic by using Quranic laws. The Golden age was the example. Now those same laws changed the west into a civilized society.
You could read some of Fazlur Rahman's works, there are many other Islamic "scholars" who say what I'm saying, it's nothing new. In English this is called "historicity", I believe.
Don't give into appeal to human authority. Read and try to understand the Quran yourself. Pay more attention to instructions about psychological change (example verse 343) and connecting with God mentally. The verses about them work like magic. The more you will reflect on some out of the ordinary results coming from nowhere the more you will see power in Quran and understand the meaning of God being merciful.
Discuss what you don't understand and never form a conclusion from peer pressure. If something seems wrong then it is wrong. It is always possible for 100 people to agree to a wrong meaning while 1 which can be you may have the right one. Hold onto individualism as strong as possible and use the gift called reasoning.
Enjoy your journey bro peace
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Peace Reel,
First, please know that I know very well that you mean well and that you are sincere. I have absolutely no doubt about that
Believe me, there are many morally inconsistent rules and laws in the Qur'an. We should not try to delude ourselves and try and change their clear meanings. There is also wife beating in the Qur'an, to claim that it actually doesn't say "beat" is wrong. For 1300 years every single Islamic scholar, including the "sahaba" have understood the word as "beat". Even the prophet has given permission to beat your wife in his "farewell speech". Because that was the culture back then.
You can check surah 4 about wives having to obey their husbands, it's undeniable and very clear. Nobody until about 100 years ago denied this fact. Again, this is an example of a desperate modern-day attempt to "clear" the Qur'an of wrong or inconsistent teachings. Since it's the book of God, there can be nothing in it that is morally inconsistent or wrong, right? Wrong, the Qur'an is not independent from Arab culture or from the level of understanding of those Arabs of 1400 years ago in that particular region. This is impossible....
There are so many other things, but I will give just one other example of moral inconsistency. In the Qur'an you are encouraged to "forgive" a murderer, it is considered better than punishment of the murderer. You will be rewarded for it. However, that same "mercy" shown to murderers is not shown to adulterers, or to those who have sex outside marriage. On the contrary, it says something like; "be harsh to them, don't show mercy". Any thinking human being would ask the following question; how is having sex outside marriage so much more criminal than murdering an innnocent human being? Why not also forgive those who have sex outside marriage then?
Interestingly, even today, girls having sex outside marriage in Turkey's eastern provinces are sometimes killed. Because for such people, having sex outside marriage (for girls of course, not for men) is a far bigger and far more "unforgivable" crime than murder. In fact, it's the biggest crime a girl could ever commit in this whole world. That's why they have no problem killing their own daughter or some female family member...
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Slavery is not banned in today's world either. It just goes by different names like workers, servants, employees, etc. In the government especially, it is too common. Think about soldiers. Oh, and we have here something called drafting. The civilian males can be put into jail for dishonoring it.
Totally different..
Slave = Human owned as fixed asset by another human.
Just like Cattle, can be sold, worked against their own will, beaten to death, raped, slaughtered by it's owner. And if the slave gave birth to a child, the child is automatically a slave as well. 100% owned by it's owner.Workers / employee
(I excluded servant as servant is merely a function performed by the employee)
Can leave / resign from their employment contract, can reject any offered employment contract, have full civil rights as the employer, if beaten / raped / murdered by the employer, the employer can be punished with the same punishment if the employee performed the same deed to the employer.
Have rights to organize in a union, minimum salary, maximum work hours, leave / holiday rights etc..1400 years ago, God told them to apply democracy which the Arabs did for awhile. But then the Persians changed it into dictatorship while making sure to prevent people from understanding the Quran on their own.
There's no 'democracy' or instruction to elect your leader / government in the Quran. And God supposedly doesn't consult with the people as well on "His choice of messenger that the people must obey".
Please don't blame the Persian, the system goes back to Monarchy when Muawiyah took power. And he's definitely ain't a Persian.. By the the time he slaughtered his competitor and his family member thus claim the title as "Caliphate", Persia was already a conquered province within the Caliphate and the voice of Persian doesn't matter as they're merely either 2nd class citizens or a slave.
One can improve socio-cultural economic by using Quranic laws. The Golden age was the example. Now those same laws changed the west into a civilized society.
One can improve socio-cultural economic of any society if justice prevails within the society and the society is open minded. The so-called "Golden Age" of Islam Caliphate in Baghdad possess those characteristics, and they slowly decline as the fanatical religious group gradually took power and put the entire society towards endless internal conflict over petty matters, close minded and backwardness before meeting it's ultimate fate in the hands of the invading Mongols.
The same pattern above can also be detected on the decline of the Israelite kingdom (post Solomon era) or any other nation for that matter.
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Hello Recluse,
There is a third possibility too, Quran could be a severely misinterpreted innocent text which interpretation was generated by ignorant clerics and scholars. You could read about the fate of Quran on my own forum which link is in the bottom of my posts. My rendition of chapter 36 reveals a great deal.
I understand that the above case sounds unbelievable, but somehow after due extensive research I strongly argue this is the case. One of the early hints was because other definitions more interesting were hidden inside of ancient Classical Arabic lexicon and when used together with studied Arabic linguistics which revealed another grammar system than what is used by people it showed that Quran is actually not at all similar to the sectarian interpretation.
It happened that Quran instead confirms what Jesus in the Biblical Gospels teach about and the religious philosophy of Buddhism and Hinduism. Suddenly God/Rabb is a symbiotic phenomenon whose Oneness, unity (ahad), is expressed through one's Being (Allah), and each person takes part in that.
I had absolutely no idea that Quran would delve into this so it was surely touching to me when I discovered it.
The ancient clerics and scholars literally fabricated what Quran was to say according to themselves. Salat is an utterly fabricated term when it means prayer or contact prayer and it is taken completely out of context. They just took terms from right to left and cooked something up. I call that bold of them but that is how it went. The result was a book which someone had just placed a meaning on top of the real one.
Be well
Amenuel -
Totally different..
Slave = Human owned as fixed asset by another human.
This classic form of slavery still exists in countries like India and Bangladesh. In the latter, it will break your heart to see kids being given for housekeeping work. Some are as young as 8 '(. They are the "assets" of their parents being given for making money '(. They have no freedom. Made to sleep on the floor '(. I must add that here in US and some European countries another form slavery exists and that's for sex. Girls as young as 12 and 13 are sold like objects. There is a youtube video on this.
But the overall definition of slavery is a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them. http//dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/slave
If you get into a contract you become a slave. But since the term has a negative history it is no more used. Your skills will be interpreted as intangible assets of the company. If you become 18 here in US you will be required to register with the government for drafting. If you don't respond to their call during the war you will be taken to jail.Can leave / resign from their employment contract, can reject any offered employment contract, have full civil rights as the employer, if beaten / raped / murdered by the employer, the employer can be punished with the same punishment if the employee performed the same deed to the employer.
Have rights to organize in a union, minimum salary, maximum work hours, leave / holiday rights etc..Yeah, they just are here to improve the condition and are not real for plenty of countries. That said, one cannot easily resign from being a soldier. Hence, I see it as the dumbest thing to go for especially here in the US. Government doesn't care about the affected vets that much. Eventually, they learn that the wars are just "april fool's day pranks", but they can't get out of them. By the way, our unions are useless. Our working hours are jokes. Most contractors don't get paid during holidays.Wow, those lines just rhymed P.
There's no 'democracy' or instruction to elect your leader / government in the Quran. And God supposedly doesn't consult with the people as well on "His choice of messenger that the people must obey".
There is no real constitutions in the Quran for running a country. Basics are there which are very much part of our constitutions and are working well. God gave us the choice to obey. The ones the messengers fought were the cruelest disbelievers who tried to hurt them. We have verses where the disbelievers who rejected the message without doing an attack were told to be left alone.
Please don't blame the Persian, the system goes back to Monarchy when Muawiyah took power. And he's definitely ain't a Persian.. By the the time he slaughtered his competitor and his family member thus claim the title as "Caliphate",
Yeah, I know about that..Muawiyah and his opponent, both were equally responsible.Hence, I don't accept their so called "written" hadiths. But at least they didn't force thousands of gossips and yellow journalism down the throats of Muslims like Ibn Hanbal, Shafi,Bukhari, Muslim and their worshipers. It truly got worse in Iraq and Nishapur. Hence the line
"Iraq has always been the central place for the fabrication business."Ibn Katheer al-Bidaya wal-Nihaya
Persia was already a conquered province within the Caliphate and the voice of Persian doesn't matter as they're merely either 2nd class citizens or a slave.
That was the main problem and that's why, I do not have any bitterness towards those Persians. They suffered a lot. Many were forced into Islam and Arabization. They had good reasons to take revenge. I call this karma for the Caliphate. Majority of the aggressive promoters of hadiths were persian.
One can improve socio-cultural economic of any society if justice prevails within the society and the society is open minded. The so-called "Golden Age" of Islam Caliphate in Baghdad possess those characteristics, and they slowly decline as the fanatical religious group gradually took power and put the entire society towards endless internal conflict over petty matters, close minded and backwardness before meeting it's ultimate fate in the hands of the invading Mongols.
The same pattern above can also be detected on the decline of the Israelite kingdom (post Solomon era) or any other nation for that matter.
Not just open minded, but also is interested in reasoning. Quran has enough verses on the importance of rationality and curiosity about the world. Things always go wrong when people are taught that by being freeloader one gets the salvation. In my dictionary, freeloader is someone who thinks that just by performing rituals he will get a ticket to heaven.
Peace Reel,
First, please know that I know very well that you mean well and that you are sincere. I have absolutely no doubt about that )
Believe me, there are many morally inconsistent rules and laws in the Qur'an. We should not try to delude ourselves and try and change their clear meanings. There is also wife beating in the Qur'an, to claim that it actually doesn't say "beat" is wrong. For 1300 years every single Islamic scholar, including the "sahaba" have understood the word as "beat". Even the prophet has given permission to beat your wife in his "farewell speech". Because that was the culture back then.
You can check surah 4 about wives having to obey their husbands, it's undeniable and very clear. Nobody until about 100 years ago denied this fact. Again, this is an example of a desperate modern-day attempt to "clear" the Qur'an of wrong or inconsistent teachings. Since it's the book of God, there can be nothing in it that is morally inconsistent or wrong, right? Wrong, the Qur'an is not independent from Arab culture or from the level of understanding of those Arabs of 1400 years ago in that particular region. This is impossible....
There are so many other things, but I will give just one other example of moral inconsistency. In the Qur'an you are encouraged to "forgive" a murderer, it is considered better than punishment of the murderer. You will be rewarded for it. However, that same "mercy" shown to murderers is not shown to adulterers, or to those who have sex outside marriage. On the contrary, it says something like; "be harsh to them, don't show mercy". Any thinking human being would ask the following question; how is having sex outside marriage so much more criminal than murdering an innnocent human being? Why not also forgive those who have sex outside marriage then?
Interestingly, even today, girls having sex outside marriage in Turkey's eastern provinces are sometimes killed. Because for such people, having sex outside marriage (for girls of course, not for men) is a far bigger and far more "unforgivable" crime than murder. In fact, it's the biggest crime a girl could ever commit in this whole world. That's why they have no problem killing their own daughter or some female family member...
I want the best for you brother. That's why I said enjoy your journey. You will find on the way many of the assumptions have up there are the twisted tales of the satan followers. I am still learning a lot. Its the constant education. Can take years, yet we might just die without knowing many things that still seem true to us, but are actually false.
peace -
To me it is crystal clear that it is, Recluse. There are lot of hints.
Amenuel