Ture Islam Resides Somewhere Between Salafi(Shia) and Quranist(JAQ)
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Peace parvez.
If the brother is cooking you a biryani followed by curry, then sit with him and enjoy the meal together like good friends.
After all ,you have been going on with this conversation for a while.
GOD bless you both brothers.
Peace. -
Peace parvez.
If the brother is cooking you a biryani followed by curry, then sit with him and enjoy the meal together like good friends.
After all ,you have been going on with this conversation for a while.
GOD bless you both brothers.
Peace.And ALLAH bless you gl too
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Exactly , Bender
but i remembered about walking between safa and marwa .how any one can become pious just walking between two hills .then when i incorporated with Verse 15.39
said, "My Lord, because You have put me in error, I will surely make attractive to them on earth, and I will mislead them allThe problem of iblees was disobedience to the Almighty . so when ALLAH subhanavatala said to walk between safa and marwa we should say Sameena Wa Ataana .
Salaam Parvez,
RED We? He did not say that to me.
similarly i cannot ask question about the rituals because this rituals got nothing to do with our prophet
RED I do not understand what you mean with this.
So i left the matter to ALLAH subhanavatal and he guided me in lot of ways in hajj
You just repeated what you said. Lets suppose I am in Mecca to do the hajj. Then I decide to leave the matter to Allah. Then what? I just wait in my hotel room? A lot of people say this, I mean "I left it to Allah" but I never understood what that means. Can you explain how He guided you in hajj when you left the matter to Him.
It is obvious that we don't know how they could have performed salah
but the salah we have is 1400 years old and i prefer to follow it .If it is wrong ,It is up to ALLAH subhanvatal to guide me to the right pathGREEN Sure, there is nothing wrong imo in the 1400 old prayer.
There you are ,Bender
the the word is pronounced maj-reyha and not majreha
this comes in tajweed .if you happen to hear the tilawa of this verse you will notice this .No qhaari will pronounce this word as majreha but he will pronounce it as maj-reyha
this is the oral tradition transmitted down the ages by our ancestors believing that our prophet pronounced it this way
another beauty is that we don't have any hadith to prove this as well (as far as i know) just oral transmission
Yet another proof for our strong oral transmission !RED Maybe they are all wrong and it should be pronounced as majreha.
Maybe your way of pray is similar to those of 1400 years back, but does it make it the only way to pray?
If I pray in my way will Allah not hear me?
Do we need a special code (=ritual) before Allah listens to us? -
Ok let me explain from the Quranic perspective
-And when (Time verb)
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you are (highlighted part suffix second person male singular pronoun)?.Meaning the Arab messenger that was assigned to his people;
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IN THEM (green suffix third person male plural pronoun ) ??the whole Jamaah
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and you lead (green suffix second person male singular pronoun ) ?.the Arab Messenger AS IMAM
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FOR THEM (green third person male plural pronoun ) ??the whole jamaah
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the prayer
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then let stand (Green imperfect third person female singular jussive mood verb)?.here taqum is a verb (meaning they stood for salah)
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A GROUP (green female indefinite nominative noun )
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AMONG THEM (suffix third person male plural pronoun) ?.study the verse, it says A GROUP AMONG THEM, meaning a group among the Jamaah;
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with you (suffix second person male singular pronoun ) ?the Arab Messenger
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and LET THEM take ( green prefix prefixed conjunction conjunction ) ?
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their arms.
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Then when
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they have prostrated
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then LET THEM be ...(GREENimperfect third person male plural jussive mood verb )
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from
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behind you
WHERE IS THE WORD "guarding with arms"??? YOU ARE NOT ALLAH, AUTHOR OF THIS QURAN, So dont try to be smart fabricating your own cooked up meaning in the Quran ...or is the Quran given to you directly FROM ALLAH ALMIGHTY that you can put any meaning that you like!
Next...
MEANING ....THEN WHEN THEY HAVE PROSTRATED ....SHOWS COMPLETION OF SALAH FROM THE QURANIC PERSPECTIVE;
If you wanna cook briyani, make sure put in the proper briyani spices, dont put in THOSAI OR APPUM SPICE, IT WILL TASTE AWFUL! ....IF YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE DONT TRY TO EXPLAIN THE QURAN, LEAVE IT TO THE EXPERT!
SO THE 1ST GROUP AMONG THEM COMPLETED THEIR PRAYERS with THE MESSENGER
ANOTHER GROUP FROM THE JAMAAH. NOTE THIS PART OF VERSE 102, USE THE WORD "ANOTHER".....
next ....
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and let come
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A GROUP -
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ANOTHER,
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not
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prayed,
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and let them pray
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with you
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and let them take
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their precautions
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and their arms.
SO THE 2ND GROUP WAS ALSO REMINDED TO TAKE ARMS AS NECESSARY PRECAUTION.
if we make out the meaning from the word to to word translation then it means "let the other group not prayed come forward and pray with you and let them take precaution and their arm"
in other words ....after sujood , let the first group go behind and let the other group join the Messenger for the prayer ..join in the second congregation prayers. So the correct tralations is -When thou (O Messenger) art with them, and standest to lead them in prayer, Let A PARTY OF THEM stand up (in prayer) with thee, Taking their arms with them When they finish their prostrations, let them Take their position in the rear. And let THE OTHER PARTY come up which hath not yet prayed - and let them pray with thee,and let them take their precautions and their arms.
I never take Quranic verses as a joke, unlike you, sectarian, will take Quranic verses as joke because to you Quran is nothing, the word of dead men are more valuable than the words of ALLAH.
My last post so peace
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Ok let me explain from the Quranic perspective
-And when (Time verb)
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you are (highlighted part suffix second person male singular pronoun)?.Meaning the Arab messenger that was assigned to his people;
-
IN THEM (green suffix third person male plural pronoun ) ??the whole Jamaah
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and you lead (green suffix second person male singular pronoun ) ?.the Arab Messenger AS IMAM
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FOR THEM (green third person male plural pronoun ) ??the whole jamaah
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the prayer
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then let stand (Green imperfect third person female singular jussive mood verb)?.here taqum is a verb (meaning they stood for salah)
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A GROUP (green female indefinite nominative noun )
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AMONG THEM (suffix third person male plural pronoun) ?.study the verse, it says A GROUP AMONG THEM, meaning a group among the Jamaah;
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with you (suffix second person male singular pronoun ) ?the Arab Messenger
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and LET THEM take ( green prefix prefixed conjunction conjunction ) ?
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their arms.
Yes you are correct ,the first group stood for salah with the arms
i don't know what you have understood by my writings but of course the first group stood with their arms ,your are correct and i agree with ....if i was wrong in my interpretation regrading i ask forgiveness to ALLAH subahnavatala and it was not deliberate if i gave this meaning to you .WHERE IS THE WORD "guarding with arms"??? YOU ARE NOT ALLAH, AUTHOR OF THIS QURAN, So dont try to be smart fabricating your own cooked up meaning in the Quran ...or is the Quran given to you directly FROM ALLAH ALMIGHTY that you can put any meaning that you like!
Lol you mean to say all the groups were in the salah leaving the war .....of course the second group was guarding the first
I don't know why your using such a big fonts ....do you want to confuse the readers by this way
Any way
MEANING ....THEN WHEN THEY HAVE PROSTRATED ....SHOWS COMPLETION OF SALAH FROM THE QURANIC PERSPECTIVE;
where and how .....briyani again uh!
if there was a completion of prayer as you claim then
what are this words doing thereand of course second group was also informed to carry their arms while praying
My last post so peace
In case you change your mind than pl..pl..pl.. dont use big fonts ,i am not blind ,it become difficult to read the post ....if you don't want to answer than join the briyani party with us
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Peace parvez.
If the brother is cooking you a biryani followed by curry, then sit with him and enjoy the meal together like good friends.
After all ,you have been going on with this conversation for a while.
GOD bless you both brothers.
Peace.Thank you mate
it was really a looong discussion.....lets relax
it is 3 PM in the afternoon and i am starving
do you know we ,the south Indian Urdu speaking Muslims, are the best makers of the briyani in the worldso lets have the party ...have a plate
http//2.bp.blogspot.com/-xaksQaL80wM/VWrTcxETv3I/AAAAAAABEPI/SbuMf-NAsyc/s640/poi.jpgOf course all are invited
I will tell you the best combination for briyani .....Chennai briyani with mumbai mutton kurma after that Hyderabadi falooda and at the end a paan from bangaluru ....wow ...i am starving heavily now
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Peace brothers,Hizbullah,parvez.
Thank you both for your kind replies.
I might just use the recipe from the best makers of biryani. I would try it ,it sounds yummi!
Anyway brothers, I forgot to mention,after you enjoy the meal as good friends, also hold the prayer together.
Brother Hizbullah leads the first "Rakaah",followed by brother parvez leading the second "Rakaah". Then call it quits.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
biryani is awsome rest of the discussion i have no comment as when i feel hungry i just focus on food, lmao
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Peace brothers,Hizbullah,parvez.
Thank you both for your kind replies.
I might just use the recipe from the best makers of biryani. I would try it ,it sounds yummi!
frankly don't know recipe ....i just taste and give my verdict
Anyway brothers, I forgot to mention,after you enjoy the meal as good friends, also hold the prayer together.
Brother Hizbullah leads the first "Rakaah",followed by brother parvez leading the second "Rakaah". Then call it quits.
GOD bless.
Peace.Lol , Gl
it happens ...sometime when we dont agree on an issue but each and everyone here is my friend .Today me and Hizb were on the opposite side of an issue ,may be some time later ,we may on the same time side in a different issue ...its just an argument nothing personal .I am a easy going guy .you might have noticed me ,i submit to the truth with all humility .no doubt this forum has enriched me in spiritual knowledge .
but then, biriyani is at its best when it is hot and spicy . -
biryani is awsome rest of the discussion i have no comment as when i feel hungry i just focus on food, lmao
lol, Imran
of course you cannot enjoy Shelley with empty belly
as per me this thread was as spicy as briyani eat -
Peace parvez.
If the brother is cooking you a biryani followed by curry, then sit with him and enjoy the meal together like good friends.
After all ,you have been going on with this conversation for a while.
GOD bless you both brothers.
Peace.And ALLAH bless you gl too
Ok Hizb, after thinking for a while ,I think you are correct in your point of view and with traditional back ground i want to carry on with my thinking
I was bit carried away by the way you people pray ....because for me this is some things new and i cannot digest that change
you know old traditions cannot accept the new changes even though they are formulated from the quran
i am sorry if i hurt you with my "cooking" stuff ....perform salah as you wish and i will do it by my way .BTW ,only ALLAH subhanavatala is going decide who is right and who is wrong ....lets be friends and handshake -
Salaam Parvez,
Walaikumsalam Rahamatullahi Wabarakathahu
RED We? He did not say that to me.
But i thought he told also
Verse 2.158
Indeed, as-Safa and al-Marwah are among the symbols of Allah. So whoever makes Hajj to the House or performs 'umrah - there is no blame upon him for walking between them. And whoever volunteers good - then indeed, Allah is appreciative and Knowing.RED I do not understand what you mean with this.
You just repeated what you said. Lets suppose I am in Mecca to do the hajj. Then I decide to leave the matter to Allah. Then what? I just wait in my hotel room? A lot of people say this, I mean "I left it to Allah" but I never understood what that means. Can you explain how He guided you in hajj when you left the matter to Him.
ok
Let me explain you with a indecent that happened during Tawaf
I had a doubt is it correct to supplicate ALLAH subhanavatala by torching the walls of Kaba by both hands
i did that in the beginning but when i got that doubt i was bit hesitant .so i thought lets leave this matter to ALLAH subahnavatala
If you want to see the humanity at its best ,than it is Kaba ...every one wants to help his fellow mate in order to please ALLAH subhanantala
one day ,while i am Tawaf (over crowded on that ),I felt hands on my shoulders .When i look back ,I saw a woman assisting an old man and she requested me to help him in the Tawaf .He was about 80 and dressed in a odd way (in that heat he was wearing a long coat!) So , i helped him .he was in the 6th lap and i was in the 7th .so my 7 laps were over but i want to make his laps to be completed .So ,in the 7th lap ,i took him near the walls of Kaba and told him to supplicate(thinking that he will pleased with me ) but to my surprise he refused supplicate by touching the walls and he was telling me something (i dont know what was his language ) only words that i understand was ,towheed,Ibrahim,Ismail and nothing else and he was pointing towards sky and told lots of things with the tears in his eyes .after the Tawaf ,i took him out he was very much pleased and hugged me with same tears .i still wonder how he was alone in that crowd that too without a companion .it is impossible for a man of 80 to walk in such a crowd (was he mehdi).But one thing was very clear for me from his words and my doubt was cleared .do you know what .......we should supplicate holding the walls of Kaba ...and that was the only message i understood from him
Be there i experience this thingsGREEN Sure, there is nothing wrong imo in the 1400 old prayer.
RED Maybe they are all wrong and it should be pronounced as majreha.May be.....what i want to emphasis is that Islam is not Ahadith bounded but it is bounded by oral traditions .no one carried Ahadith books or any books in their hands but everything was performed or orally thought .That is why even after the invention of printing press people never used it to print Quran or any other Islamic texts
Maybe your way of pray is similar to those of 1400 years back, but does it make it the only way to pray?
If I pray in my way will Allah not hear me?
Do we need a special code (=ritual) before Allah listens to us?You may be correct if this verse was not there in Quran
2.13
And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know not. -
If there was such a thing as "true Islam", we wouldn't be arguing endlessly here....
After 1400 years we are still arguing...in vain...
Because people are seeking something that in reality doesn't exist...
Real Islam is non-existant...
It will never be found...
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this argue will never finish , whatever sect movement anything we try to do all in vain,,,
i start realising something important we everybody missing, every sect, sunni , shia, quranist , everybody, something is missing , missing link ,
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this argue will never finish , whatever sect movement anything we try to do all in vain,,,
i start realising something important we everybody missing, every sect, sunni , shia, quranist , everybody, something is missing , missing link ,
The missing link is very simple, but extremely hard to acknowledge if you have been indoctrinated from childhood.
The crude reality is this; all religions are (mostly) rubbish; there is no miracle book with miracle solutions to humanity's problems...
God gave us a mind /intellect and conscience for a reason....
Peace
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hmm, humanity problems and religious problems are two different things
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If there was such a thing as "true Islam", we wouldn't be arguing endlessly here....
After 1400 years we are still arguing...in vain...
Because people are seeking something that in reality doesn't exist...
Real Islam is non-existant...
It will never be found...
I think it is there .i strongly believe these arguments kept religions alive
And no human is perfect and no one can guaranty or claim himself to to the perfect Muslim or a perfect human, as a matter of fact we can just approach to the perfection -
hmm, humanity problems and religious problems are two different things
I think they are related
only on two occasions human mind stops working ,one is religion and the other is doctor
They will believe blindly in their doctor thinking that he will cure them some how and likewise they believe in their GOD thinking that their problems will be sorted by their prayers
but in both the cases the inevitable happens -
they believe in their GOD thinking that their problems will be sorted by their prayers
is there any other option of getting your problems solved if it is out of the hands, i beleive its only God who bring out ships from storm , its literal meaning are regarding ship and storm but infact the storm indicate all the problmes we faced in our daily life, and so far i believe its only God who can solve problems,
now a days i m suffering from something between faith and problems i m kinda confuse , first time one of work is pending from last couple of months and its not being solved still in process and i really need that happpen quickly , but i m totally blank head and blank vision, sometimes i feel what i m doing is really right or something i m missing,
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Peace brothers-Parvez and Imran-
A good question to ask is why sometimes prayers are not answered?
After all GOD s promise to the believers is " I will answer the prayer to those who sincerely ask!!!!Is there a contradiction here?
No ,for sure there is no contradiction in GOD s words.
The solution rests on understanding that GOD s promise is only valid if you stay under His protection, stay loyal and do not "move out" of His protection.
We may ask what does that mean?
Here is a list from Qoran that helps us answer this
1- Taking on other "gods" beside GOD Alone. For example relying on somebody else or something else without acknowledging the One above who makes all things happen and possible.
2-Idolising, putting others on the same platform as the One and Only, the Highest.
3- Asking GOD, then not thanking Him , but thanking others ,since GOD made it possible to happen through others.
4- Mentioning others when asking Him, thinking they can intercede on our behalf.
5-Mixing up your priorities, promising and not delivering on your promise.
6- Your true "god" is what is in your mind most of the time. If GOD Alone is not in your mind 24/7, then you are "out of His protection" through your own choice/decision to have another priority at the forefront of your life.
7-Not following His commands ,when you clearly understand them.
8- When not answering your prayer is for your own good. To correct your ways/to save you further along the line/you asked for the wrong thing...etc.
9- You are still on trial. He knows you better than others or yourself.
10-You simply have the wrong motif for what you are praying for, or you will use it to gain "ego".
Of course there are other reasons....GOD is there for everyone. We make the decision to enter His "kingdom"- full protection- or stay out of it .
GOD is forgiver most Merciful,if we come out of His "kingdom"- out of His protection- then repent and come back, He forgives us and we are back to receive His promise of answering our genuine needs .i.e back to His "Kingdom"-under His protection-.
Our honesty and intentions must be clean and genuine.
May the Lord keep us under His protection.
GOD bless.
Peace.