undisputed facts about Quran

unknownuser

BROWN , my side its always peace and God bless you. only allah is best and best, rest of the tom dick and harries like you and me do mistakes

I am always careful unlike you sectarian, BLIND FOLLOWER

...use your intelligence, which obviously you do not have.

...people like YOU, deviating mankind from the right course!...

infact i exposed you, and your stupidity, sorry i mean your intelligence. and alhamdulliah i m successful in it. yay

dnt try to apply my science on me , prove it braham and abraham were same person .

Have you guys read http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8177.0 ?

If yes, then read again, if not, I suggest you do so, carefully. This personal stuff needs to stay out. You have been warned.

Bender

first tell me according to your understanind who muhammad is? where was he? or it was not a muhammad at all? forget about any history of muslims or christians , just anlyse it and i m sure you already research about it, so share ur understanding of muhammad with me, then we will proceed talk in a manner we both understand.

Hi,

The information I have about a certain Mohammed is like anyone else only from the ahadith.

From my own research, the word "mohammed" in the quran is not a name.
Even if it was a name then it still can not be proved that the Mohammed mentioned in the quran is also the receiver of the book.
Even if it was a name then there is absolutly nothing in the quran that would hint that he lived in somewhere in the middle east 1400 years ago.

For me the traditional theory, thus a man named Mohammed who lived 1400 years ago in mecca who received the quran, is a likely as a woman named Sof?a who lived 3000 years ago in Cadiz who received the quran.

noah ark is also mention in quran , and history verify it, soddom and gomorrah, and lot of other things , are in perfec t harmony with quran , but we always doubt about the refferd person of book at that time he was present there so it must be something that raise questions regarding his personality. may be you are not getting what i try to say i make it simple,

I don't think history verifies Noah or Sodom.

let say today 2016 ad a messenger X comes up with live miracles and its sure its from God and tells us the stories of old including muhammad what he done where was he , how he wirte and collect quran, and after 1400 years, in 3400 ad we will ask who was x there is nothing mention about him in the book what he given us, we need to see wikipedia todays tenology that is recording the records of individual, can we rely on wikipedia we all know how its works,

mr x God mention four time in new quran and now we have nothing to prove who was mr x,

the present tense and past tense are in different sturucture, when quran was revelaing prophet was present, gabriel didnnot directly hand over this quran to humanity i think.

I am not sure if I understood what you are trying to say.

imrankhawaja

For me the traditional theory, thus a man named Mohammed who lived 1400 years ago in mecca who received the quran, is a likely as a woman named Sof?a who lived 3000 years ago in Cadiz who received the quran.

thanx for you reply,

i dnt think so our discussion will go anywhere in light of your claims and research . what i have for you is a simple advise. give your research little bit more time.

sofia 3000 years ago , is a clear fiction by you,if sofia recieved the quran its meaning after revelation of quran jesus christ come and when jesus christ was there sofia already revealed quran.

muhammad 1400 years ago was not a fiction history is witness, and the work of the last prophet is alive by billions of followers,

marking of your example is 0 out of 10 very illogical , wrong, unworthy example. i was thinking if there is negetive marking system may b the example of this kind will get -10 lol

best of luck i did research as well i m satisfied in my research there was a muhammad and he did recieve quran,

i think we are agree to disagree,
peace
God bless you.

imrankhawaja

Edip-Layth (Quran A Reformist Translation)
4829 Muhammed, the messenger of God, and those who are with him, are severe against the ingrates, but merciful between themselves. You see them kneeling and prostrating, they seek God's blessings and approval. Their distinction is in their faces, as a result of prostrating. Such is their example in the Torah. Their example in the Injeel is like a plant which shoots out and becomes strong and thick and it stands straight on its trunk, pleasing to the farmers. That He may enrage the ingrates with them. God promises those among them who acknowledge and promote reforms forgiveness and a great reward.

The Monotheist Group (The Quran A Monotheist Translation)
4829 Mohammed is the messenger of God, and those who are with him are severe against the rejecters, but merciful between themselves. You see them kneeling and prostrating, they seek the blessings and approval of God. Their distinction is in their faces, as a result of prostrating. Such is their example in the Torah. And their example in the Gospel is like a plant which shoots out and becomes strong and thick and it stands straight on its trunk, pleasing to the farmers. That He may enrage the rejecters with them. God promises those among them who believe and do good works a forgiveness and a great reward.

Muhammad Asad (The Message Of Quran)
4829 MUHAMMAD is God's Apostle; and those who are with him are firm and unyielding43 towards all deniers of the truth, full of mercy towards one another.44 Thou canst see them bowing down, pros?trating themselves , seeking favour with God and goodly acceptance their marks are on their faces, traced by prostration.45 This is their parable in the Torah as well as their parable in the Gospel46 like a seed that brings forth its shoot, and then He strengthens it, so that it grows stout, and stands firm upon its stem, delighting the sowers. so that through them He might confound the deniers of the truth.47 unto such of them as may attain to faith and do righteous deeds, God has promised forgiveness and a reward supreme.48

Rashad Khalifa (The Final Testament)
Qualities of the Believers
4829 Muhammad - the messenger of GOD - and those with him are harsh and stern against the disbelievers, but kind and compassionate amongst themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating, as they seek GOD's blessings and approval. Their marks are on their faces, because of prostrating. This is the same example as in the Torah. Their example in the Gospel is like plants that grow taller and stronger, and please the farmers. He thus enrages the disbelievers. GOD promises those among them who believe, and lead a righteous life, forgiveness and a great recompense.

Shabbir Ahmed (Quran As It Explains Itself)
4829 Muhammad is God?s Messenger. And those who are with him are stern towards the deniers, and compassionate among themselves. You can see them bowing, adoring (Him), as they seek God?s bounty and acceptance. Their signs (of belief) are on their faces, the effects of adoration. Such is their likeness in the Torah and their likeness in the Gospel. They are like a seed that brings forth its shoot, and then He strengthens it, so that it grows stout, and then stands firm on its stem, delighting those who have sown it. As a result it enrages the deniers at them. And God promises forgiveness and an immense reward to those who attain belief and do acts of beneficence

who is this muhammad, a courier service i think that deleiver quran to everywhere. what this verse is talking about, and these are not the transaltions of any traditional muslims these are quran alone based translations,

Bender

thanx for you reply,

i dnt think so our discussion will go anywhere in light of your claims and research . what i have for you is a simple advise. give your research little bit more time.

sofia 3000 years ago , is a clear fiction by you,if sofia recieved the quran its meaning after revelation of quran jesus christ come and when jesus christ was there sofia already revealed quran.

muhammad 1400 years ago was not a fiction history is witness, and the work of the last prophet is alive by billions of followers,

marking of your example is 0 out of 10 very illogical , wrong, unworthy example. i was thinking if there is negetive marking system may b the example of this kind will get -10 lol

best of luck i did research as well i m satisfied in my research there was a muhammad and he did recieve quran,

i think we are agree to disagree,
peace
God bless you.

Hi,

RED Yes think so.

Bender

who is this muhammad, a courier service i think that deleiver quran to everywhere. what this verse is talking about, and these are not the transaltions of any traditional muslims these are quran alone based translations,

Like I said even if you take it as a name in that verse then you still did not prove that he is the receiver of the book we call the quran and also no proof of time and place.
Only with help of Bukhary & Co you can make these kind of claims.

imrankhawaja

Like I said even if you take it as a name in that verse then you still did not prove that he is the receiver of the book we call the quran and also no proof of time and place.
Only with help of Bukhary & Co you can make these kind of claims.

same you cannot prove from quran muhammad is not the reciever of quran,

but history is witness , not only one person plantey of them ,

burden of proof is on your head,

having no proof of claims or burden of proof means case by default win by bukhari & co. simple daily law of courts. lolxx

have a good day.

Bender

same you cannot prove from quran muhammad is not the reciever of quran,

Yes that is true, just like you and anyone else here can not prove that it was not Michael or Anna who was the receiver.

but history is witness , not only one person plantey of them ,

burden of proof is on your head,

having no proof of claims or burden of proof means case by default win by bukhari & co. simple daily law of courts. lolxx

have a good day.

RED No it's not. It is you who is claiming that the receiver was a certain man named Mohammed and lived 1400 years ago somewhere in the middle east, I did not claim that.

huruf

I really don't get what i wrong with Muhmmad, the prophet, be it a name or an eithet or a distinction or whatever. the Qur'anmakes no secret of the name of prophets, and no ecret of things being revealed to htem and of hem beeing "pampered" by god. ?Why is there such an outrage the the receiver and trnasmitter of the Qur'an to the people should be ombody known and acknowledged by God just as Musa was or 'sa was or so many prophets as are named and acknowledged in the Qur'an. We are told to treat all prophets alike not to disdain Muhammad down under all the others.
This is something I just don't get. Do we get fewer points if we praise Muhammad (and by Muhammad I understand the transmitter of the Qur'an to the people) tahn if we praise other prophets, like Musa, Ibrahim, and darling 'Isa-Jesus? And by this I do not mean at all any disrespect for 'Isa, by no meansand quite the opposite, but simply point out that for some people it seems it is more distinguished and select to be in love with Jesus than to have any words for Muhammad that are not short of hostile. I mean you loose category if you praise Muhammad. ?What is this nonsense? You can praie all the prophets except Muhammad.

Of ocurse som say that Muhammad is not the reciver of the Qur'an, I don't give a damn which name the reciver had, but smebody did receive the Qur'an and somebody is aluded many times in the Qur'an as the transmitter of it, then let us say it is not Muhammad, somebody is, then who?

Salaam

Bender

I really don't get what i wrong with Muhmmad, the prophet, be it a name or an eithet or a distinction or whatever. the Qur'anmakes no secret of the name of prophets, and no ecret of things being revealed to htem and of hem beeing "pampered" by god. ?Why is there such an outrage the the receiver and trnasmitter of the Qur'an to the people should be ombody known and acknowledged by God just as Musa was or 'sa was or so many prophets as are named and acknowledged in the Qur'an. We are told to treat all prophets alike not to disdain Muhammad down under all the others.
This is something I just don't get. Do we get fewer points if we praise Muhammad (and by Muhammad I understand the transmitter of the Qur'an to the people) tahn if we praise other prophets, like Musa, Ibrahim, and darling 'Isa-Jesus? And by this I do not mean at all any disrespect for 'Isa, by no meansand quite the opposite, but simply point out that for some people it seems it is more distinguished and select to be in love with Jesus than to have any words for Muhammad that are not short of hostile. I mean you loose category if you praise Muhammad. ?What is this nonsense? You can praie all the prophets except Muhammad.

What I do not get is why people get sensitive if Mohammed is the subject.
I did not say anything wrong about him, I only said that it can not be proved with only the quran that a man named Mohammed who lived 1400 years ago in the middle east is the receiver of the quran. If people insist that it is him, then that's totally ok with me but the fact stands that that understanding is purely based on Bukhary & Co, it can not be derived from the quran.

Mohammed (if he existed) is for a lot of people who believe in the quran more then other messengers, you can witness this in this forum a lot, and that is I think not really healthy.

Of ocurse som say that Muhammad is not the reciver of the Qur'an, I don't give a damn which name the reciver had, but smebody did receive the Qur'an and somebody is aluded many times in the Qur'an as the transmitter of it, then let us say it is not Muhammad, somebody is, then who?

Salaam

BLUE I have no idea.
From my understanding the receiver of the quran is mohammed (the meaning of the word) but can be anybody and is in fact not important unless you want to study the origin of the quran.

imrankhawaja

Yes that is true, just like you and anyone else here can not prove that it was not Michael or Anna who was the receiver.RED No it's not. It is you who is claiming that the receiver was a certain man named Mohammed and lived 1400 years ago somewhere in the middle east, I did not claim that.

lol, you said its bukhari and company who claimed that, and then i handle their case becoz they are not alive, and in the light of historical evidences and historical records by multiple chains of multiple regions make them win the case,

on the other hand a person mr bender deny to accept the perosnalty of that perosn and moreover he dnt have any evidence so far not any witness soo far,, not any historical record ,,so far , not any logical record so far,, in light of his own persoanl idea, court by law given the decison in the favor of bukhari and company.

thats what it mean, lol

peace.

imrankhawaja

BLUE I have no idea.

and in the ending statement of mr bender he clearly say i have no idea, who recieved it, so case by default is illogical when there is no idea who recieved it ? how can be an idea its not muhammad ? moreover its the issue 1400 years old only history can verify it. and history already play their role,

questions and answers of mr bender contradict with eachother.

peace and have a good day.

imrankhawaja

as a good friend i want to share one verse with mr bender. hope so it will help, quran is very helpful for people always .

Edip-Layth (Quran A Reformist Translation)
3340 Muhammed was not the father of any man among you, but he was the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. God is fully aware of all things.

The Monotheist Group (The Quran A Monotheist Translation)
3340 Mohammed is not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. And God is fully aware of all things.

Muhammad Asad (The Message Of Quran)
3340 Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men,but is God's Apostle and the Seal of all Prophets And God has indeed full knowledge of everything.

Rashad Khalifa (The Final Testament)
3340 Muhammad was not the father of any man among you. He was a messenger of GOD and the final prophet. GOD is fully aware of all things.

Shabbir Ahmed (Quran As It Explains Itself)
3340 Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is God?s Messenger and the closing seal of all Prophets. God is Knower of all things.

there are three main parts of this verse for believers , first is muhammad is not father of any men, second , he is the last prophet , third God is knower of all things,

third thing clear everything , lol
and God is telling us that muhmmad(praised one) is the last prophet, what else left moreover the interpretation is not by any bukhari and company group.

burden of proof is always on ...... you.

Man_of_Faith

Please excuse me. Redundant post.

Be well
Amenue

huruf

What I do not get is why people get sensitive if Mohammed is the subject.
I did not say anything wrong about him, I only said that it can not be proved with only the quran that a man named Mohammed who lived 1400 years ago in the middle east is the receiver of the quran. If people insist that it is him, then that's totally ok with me but the fact stands that that understanding is purely based on Bukhary & Co, it can not be derived from the quran.

Mohammed (if he existed) is for a lot of people who believe in the quran more then other messengers, you can witness this in this forum a lot, and that is I think not really healthy.
BLUE I have no idea.
From my understanding the receiver of the quran is mohammed (the meaning of the word) but can be anybody and is in fact not important unless you want to study the origin of the quran.

You re evading the issue and on top of it you say that people get ensitive on Muhammad. I have already said, I do not care which name it is, or whether it is a name or an epithet or whatever, what I say is again, there is obviously in the Qur'an a person who is addressed as the messenger sent y God to transmit th Qur'an. And I have said that it would be really intriguing why God mentions so many messengers and talks about the scriptures or missions given to them, and when we come to Muhammad or whatever name to cknowledge to him the same as to other prophets, neither more nor less.

It is not being sensitive, it is being intrigued by and attituted that seems inconsistent. o His name is not Mhyammed, why would God name very other Prophet and not the one He is talking about in so much of Qur'an, We have Musa, Ibrahim, Yusuf, Maryam, 3ia, et etc. etc. o either the one who got revealed the Qur'an is not named either it is called Muhammad or somethin gelse we have missed in te Qur'an. Either there is an answer to that which is logical and consistent or there is not. I guess what you are saying is that there is ot an answer to that.

I do get that the Qur'an is revealed to everybdy who cares to receive it, but so has been the case with every previous or later scripture, that is o answer nor an explantion for making the reception of the Qur'an, as narrated in the Qur'an itself an exception in the way that God has dealt with the Prophets. Was Muhmmad to be an outcast amonst the Prophets, without name nor recognition of his mission?

Nobody, well not I, am aking to crown Myhammad for president or anything la that that you call ensitive, I am just at a loss, always have been at a loss as to why he should be singled out for divesting him of the usual things which are vested on other prophets, like a name, an existence and an aknowledgement of his mission.

Salaam

Bender

lol, you said its bukhari and company who claimed that, and then i handle their case becoz they are not alive, and in the light of historical evidences and historical records by multiple chains of multiple regions make them win the case,

Yes they win I loose.
But in the end you and all of your resources still have no quranic proof, still hearsay.

on the other hand a person mr bender deny to accept the perosnalty of that perosn and moreover he dnt have any evidence so far not any witness soo far,, not any historical record ,,so far , not any logical record so far,, in light of his own persoanl idea, court by law given the decison in the favor of bukhari and company.

thats what it mean, lol

and in the ending statement of mr bender he clearly say i have no idea, who recieved it, so case by default is illogical when there is no idea who recieved it ? how can be an idea its not muhammad ? moreover its the issue 1400 years old only history can verify it. and history already play their role,

questions and answers of mr bender contradict with eachother.

peace and have a good day.

Me having no idea does not make your assumption true.
And what history are you talking about?

May I ask why you switched to 3rd person?