Of course Apostates Should Be Killed
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That's the title of the article pasted below. At first I thought it was a parody. I ended up reading it several times to know whether I was right. To my dismay, I was wrong -\
There seems to be a problem with many "modernist and liberal" Muslims out there who would like to "sugarcoat" the religion of Islam by distorting what it really teaches. There are those that go at length to deny that Islam teaches that apostates must be killed. They either deny the explicit hadith that speak about this or reinterpret it to only refer to those apostates that would fight the Muslims.
This is false. I am not going to spend time in this article trying to prove that Islam does call for the killing of apostates and the rules and conditions behind killing apostates (e.g. the apostate must be interrogated first in order to refute what doubts he has for three days, etc.) for I am assuming that my readers already adhere to and have knowledge of the orthodox position regarding the matter. What I want to speak about in this article is the reason for Islam ordering the killing of apostates.
Before I proceed, let me make it clear that when I speak about apostates that must be killed I am only referring to those apostates who live under an Islamic theocratic state and have openly declared their apostasy. What this means is that no Muslim has a right to go to America or Europe for example and start killing ex-Muslims, for he has no such authority to do so.
People find it difficult to grasp why apostasy is a crime that is so great that it would call for a punishment (i.e. execution) that is more severe than say fornication (i.e. flogging), deliberate and preplanned theft (i.e. cutting of the hand), etc. However, with careful contemplation and a realization of the reality of the issue at hand, the matter should be easy for one to swallow.
If someone tells you that the state executed a man who was guilty of murdering someone by stabbing him repeatedly, would you shout "This is injustice! Why did you execute this man! His crime wasn't that great!"?
I believe that many of us would not say so. I believe many of us would say that the murderer deserved to be executed because of the gravity of his heinous crime. Not too many of us would sympathize with such a man. This man made his innocent victim suffer greatly each time his knife penetrated his flesh. He caused him so much physical pain that the man suffered greatly even though it was only for a matter of a few minutes.
Now let us come to the apostate. A person who would openly declare his apostasy affects the people around him. The people around him might ask themselves "Why on earth did this Muslim leave Islam? Is he out of his mind? Or maybe he discovered something wrong with Islam? Maybe Islam isn't that clear after all!" These people would then start to doubt their religion. If they seriously doubt their religion, they cease to be Muslims. If they cease to be Muslims that would very likely land them up in the blazing fire of Hell for eternity.
In the previous example, we saw that the murderer was executed because he caused his victim so much physical pain even though it was only for a matter of a few minutes, however with the apostate we see that he could cause the people around him so much spiritual damage by destroying their souls that these people could land up in the blazing fire of Hell for eternity.
With all honesty, which crime is worse? Stabbing a person for a few minutes or making him burn for eternity? The answer is obvious and we know that it is the latter. If the latter crime is much worse, why are we insisting that it is difficult to grasp why Islam would call for the killing of apostates then?
I believe that this is for two reasons
- Lack of faith or no faith at all in the truth of Islam.
- This Islamic Practice is Immoral According to non-Muslim Standards
Lack of faith or no faith at all in the truth of Islam
Many Muslims with weak faith still fail to fully comprehend the seriousness and gravity of kufr (disbelief). They fail to recognize its deadly results (i.e. Hellfire) because the crime of the apostate towards his victims won't be displayed or shown in this life, but in the after life (i.e. you would only realize the pain that the apostate will go through in the next life and not in this one, thus you don't see the seriousness of apostasy with your own eyes now), therefore they find it difficult to accept the fact that apostates must be punished in this life. However, if one has strong faith (especially in the fact that apostates will go to hell if they don't repent) and the correct understanding of the seriousness of Kufr then it only takes common sense to figure out why apostates must be killed.
Non-Muslims will of course (and understandably) argue that they don't even believe in Islam in the first place. If they don't believe in Islam, how could Muslims impose such rules upon them?
Islam already acknowledges the fact that there would be those that would hate to see Islam succeed and impose its ruling on others (Surah 88, 932-33, 1082, 4014, 618-9), thus non-Muslims complaining about how they don't "like" or agree with certain Islamic laws is something that is already expected.
Now since non-Muslims don't "like" or agree with the law of killing of the apostate they would argue that Muslims should be "open minded" and allow people to freely choose whatever religion they please. They would argue back that religion is only between God and the person. It is no body else's business.
Muslims could easily reply back by saying
- You non-Muslims say that people should be free to practice their religion. Our religion states that apostates must be killed. So allow us to "freely practice our religion". If you don't allow us to, you are contradicting your selves then.
- Muslims would hate it if apostates were allowed to be free to run around publicly displaying their apostasy and see their loved ones getting affected by it. Why should Muslims suffer by standing back and watching this all happen? Why do non-Muslims insist that they don't get affected while Muslims must? These are double standards.
- You say that "religion is only between God and the person", fine so if someone apostatizes let him keep it between God and himself in private and not publicly display it. If he chooses to go public with it and start affecting others, then he hasn't made his religion only between himself and God but involved others as well. If he involved others as well, then others (i.e. the Islamic state) have the right to intervene.
Non-Muslims would also argue back that the apostate's intention is sincere. He is not intentionally trying to lure people into hell. They would say that we must take his intentions into account.
First of all, Muslims do take his intentions into account and this is precisely why we won't go ahead and have the apostate killed immediately. The authorities will bring the apostate in for questioning and ask him to lay out all the doubts that he has regarding Islam. Muslim scholars will be appointed to answer his questions. If he is not convinced and it appears to the scholars that his reasons for leaving are not valid (usually they are not valid, most people leave Islam for emotional reasons) they would then have him executed.
Secondly, it is not an excuse for us to let an apostate go free doing what he pleases just because his "intentions are sincere". At the end of the day, this is affecting the people around him and he must be stopped.
Millions of people around the world don't believe that marijuana should be made illegal. They believe that it is a natural plant and "gift from God" as singer Carlos Santana said.
Their intentions are sincere, but just because their intentions are sincere that doesn't mean that we legalize marijuana. That doesn't mean that we just stand by and let them get away with their crime. They are made aware of the punishment of breaking the law and should be held accountable regardless of what their intentions are. If they don't agree with the law, that is too bad. They have to deal with it.
The same applies to the apostate. He must obey the law. Him not agreeing with or liking the law means absolutely nothing.
Should we implement the law to please God and displease the apostate or should we remove the law to displease God and please the apostate? It is definitely not the latter.
This Islamic Practice is Immoral According to non-Muslim Standards
Both Muslims and Christians believe in the Divine Command Theory, which teaches that our morals are derived from God's commands. One cannot presuppose that something is moral or immoral and then judge whether something is moral or immoral. Rather, one has to know what is moral and immoral by knowing what God has said about the matter.
Dr. William Lane Craig himself states
So the problem isn't that God ended the Canaanites' lives. The problem is that He commanded the Israeli soldiers to end them. Isn't that like commanding someone to commit murder? No, it's not. Rather, since our moral duties are determined by God's commands, it is commanding someone to do something which, in the absence of a divine command, would have been murder. The act was morally obligatory for the Israeli soldiers in virtue of God's command, even though, had they undertaken it on their on initiative, it would have been wrong.
On divine command theory, then, God has the right to command an act, which, in the absence of a divine command, would have been sin, but which is now morally obligatory in virtue of that command. (William Lane Craig, Slaughter of the Canaanites, Source)
As Dr. Craig rightfully states, we can't state that something is immoral unless we have evidence that God has not divinely approved of it.
So when non-Muslims say that Islam's ordering for the killing of apostates is immoral, they are begging the question that Islam is false and is not the ultimate standard of morality to follow.
In order to put forth a successful argument, our opponents must level a stronger critique.
There are two kinds of critiques that one can form.
- Internal critique
This is criticizing someone or something by pointing out its internal inconsistencies. This is usually a strong argument. Now, have non-Muslims put forth an internal critique against the killing of apostates? Actually, they haven't. They have not shown how this law contradicts other Islamic principles.
- External critique
This is using an external standard to judge somebody or something in order to critique that person or thing.
There are two types of external critique
i) Universalist external critique
This is appealing to universal standards and beliefs (e.g. raping a little child is wrong according to everyone) as a standard. However, have non-Muslims shown that killing of apostates violates universal standards? Of course not. One can appeal to early Christians who have ordered the killing of apostates as well.
ii) Ethnocentric external critique
This is appealing to one's own cultural or religious beliefs as a standard for critiquing. Philosophers have stated that this form of argumentation is weak unless one can prove that the standard that he is using should be binding upon everyone.
Now, this is the kind of critique that non-Muslims are launching.
They must be using a moral law in order to judge whether the killing of apostates is moral or not. If they are using a moral law, then that implies that there is a moral law giver that they are appealing to.
If the person arguing is an atheist then this is not a problem. One who does not believe in God does not have an objective standard of morality to abide by anyways. So he might be using his culture or personal opinions and feelings as a standard to critique the law of killing apostates. If that is the case, then this argument is not threatening at all because it is not based on an objective standard, but a subjective emotional one.
If the person arguing is a Christian we are going to assume that his moral law giver is the God of the Bible. Have they proven that the law of killing apostates cannot possibly be a law put forth by God? No they cannot. One can easily appeal to the Old Testament and point out verses that order the killing of apostates.
These Christians might argue back that this law was a long time ago, but now we are in the 21st century. However, this response is weak because God's laws are not supposed to adapt with the times, but vice versa.
Secondly, even if Christians were able to prove that this law violated Biblical standards for morality then SO WHAT?
Why should I care if a particular Islamic law did not live up to the moral standards of the Bible? Have Christians shown us that the Bible is the complete true word of God and that it is binding upon us? The answer is no.
If they would like to reply back and say that the Qur'an affirms the Bible and that means that Muslims should hold the Bible as authoritative, then I ask the reader to refer here.
In conclusion, non-Muslims cannot provide an INTELLECTUAL AND RATIONAL argument against the Islamic law regarding the killing of apostates. They can only provide EMOTIONAL and SUBJECTIVE arguments.
However, Muslims let their rationality overcome their emotions and don't fall for these silly appeal to emotion arguments. That is probably the main reason why we are Muslims.
In conclusion, the Muslim should keep his head up and confidently say
OF COURSE APOSTATES SHOULD BE KILLED!
Ironically, it is that "call to monotheism" site. Source http//www.call-to-monotheism.com/of_course_apostates_should_be_killed
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That's the title of the article pasted below. At first I thought it was a parody. I ended up reading it several times to know whether I was right. To my dismay, I was wrong -\
Ironically, it is that "call to monotheism" site. Source http//www.call-to-monotheism.com/of_course_apostates_should_be_killed
This human trash still don't understand we are neither modernist nor liberals, we follow only the Qur'an.
By the way, two Sunno-apologist webs have debunked the views of the charlatan Bassam ZAWADI, owner of the Wahhabi web Call to Monotheism. Look
a) http//abuaminaelias.com/did-the-prophet-kill-apostates-who-convert-to-another-religion/
"In conclusion, the death penalty for apostasy is restricted by the Prophet?s other statements and actions which make clear that this punishment applies only to those who commit high treason against the Muslim community"
b) http//www.answering-christianity.com/apostates.htm
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There seems to be a problem with many "modernist and liberal" Muslims out there who would like to "sugarcoat" the religion of Islam by distorting what it really teaches. There are those that go at length to deny that Islam teaches that apostates must be killed. They either deny the explicit hadith that speak about this or reinterpret it to only refer to those apostates that would fight the Muslims.
I agree with the underlined statement above..
It's clear that in the religion of Islam, Apostate must be killed and Kuffar must be either converted, enslaved or killed..
Killing the apostate is key for the survivability of Islam.
It will instill FEAR upon the heart of people who are thinking to leave the religion of Islam or criticize it's dogma..
They will think one hundred times before even trying to do so..While converting, enslaving or killing the Kuffar, the enemy of Allah is key for the expansion and glory of Islam.
http//www.atheology.ca/images/misc/quote_al_qaradawi_yusuf_apostasy.jpg
http//www.blazingcatfur.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Sheikh-Yusuf-al-Qaradawi.jpg
https//betaalbaareten.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/1385769766-islamists-protest-in-london-against-angolas-alleged-ban-on-islam_3375781.jpg
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Talk about flimsy analogies.
He says each person should be free to practice their religion and if "the West" is against their apostasy law they are hypocrites, but the reasoning is flawed. If the apostate has left Islam and has another religion he is free to believe in it and if they then kill him he is not free to believe in his religion because they killed him for changing his belief system into what he found to be truer.
The freedom to choose religion is supposed to protects people from such atrocities that the proponent advocates. He has not understood the concept of freedom to practice one's religion.
As long as Quran's flawed interpretation has authority people will argue this way though even if hadith are removed. Quran incites hatred towards so-called disbelievers and a "true" Muslim cannot even have a Christian or Jew as a friend if they are true to to their own scripture. Most Muslims including those in this forum are too proud to realize this and question what Quran really says.
Be well
Amenuel -
Too many people saying what the Qur'an says and who could nnot care less about what the Qur'an does say. This i it with aotasy as well as with many other things. They do ot want the Qur'an to give light, they want their own darkness to rule.
They are indeed servants of shaytan. And thoe who would believe hem rather than bbelieve the Qur'an equally servants of the shaytaan. They love to find evil rather than goodness.
Salaam
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The chap in Jaf's last picture, holding up the sign saying "Muslims rise up..", he was on a Channel 4 programme with his idiotic friends a couple of months ago. He said he had "fatigue syndrome " and therefore couldn't work and was proud of the fact that he was claiming Social Welfare benefits. Yet he was sufficiently energetic enough to go to these stupid protests, get rowdy with the police and to sit at home, eating chicken and chips, watching ISIS' beheadings. It was an actual, real life demonstration of the comedy, 'Four Lions'. Nothing surprises me anymore.
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Peace Man of Faith/Emanuel
As long as Quran's flawed interpretation has authority people will argue this way though even if hadith are removed. Quran incites hatred towards so-called disbelievers and a "true" Muslim cannot even have a Christian or Jew as a friend if they are true to to their own scripture. Most Muslims including those in this forum are too proud to realize this and question what Quran really says.
Do I understand you right. You want to question certain part of Quran.
Could you please specify.
Are you thinking about the pasage where its written that you shouldn?t take Jews or Christians as freinds (551)?
Basically is a wrong interpretation and a better seems like patrons. We discussed it in another tread were also you contributed http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608132.10But you could be thinking about something else...
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They are ot convinced that God loves goodness, they are nnot connvinnced that God does love humans and all His creatio, they are seekig mercy fromm whom no mercy comes, sice all mercy comes from God, they do ot trst their luck of haig been created God's servants. Summing up, lack of conviction, luck of trust.
Salaam
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Niels Jacob,
Yes of course, everyone should. Too few people actually seem to do it and Quran is too hyped. People do not seem to reflect sufficiently on what it does in fact say in its mainstream interpretation (which one I have realized is not correct either).
Be well
Amenuel -
He says each person should be free to practice their religion and if "the West" is against their apostasy law they are hypocrites, but the reasoning is flawed. If the apostate has left Islam and has another religion he is free to believe in it and if they then kill him he is not free to believe in his religion because they killed him for changing his belief system into what he found to be truer.
That's why don't ever convert to Islam or they will kill you..
And if you happened to be born within Islam society, don't ever leave the religion otherwise they will have an excuse to kill you.
If you happened to be interested in other religion / teachings then feel free to join that religion / sect, in fact please join other religion / sect as many as you could so you will broaden your horizon.. but don't leave Islam, otherwise they will have an excuse to kill you.As long as Quran's flawed interpretation has authority people will argue this way though even if hadith are removed. Quran incites hatred towards so-called disbelievers and a "true" Muslim cannot even have a Christian or Jew as a friend if they are true to to their own scripture. Most Muslims including those in this forum are too proud to realize this and question what Quran really says.
Don't idolize the Quran (or any other book)..
Seek guidance from God directly... He speaks through many channel.. among them is your own conscience...I will not dwelve into the "Christian or Jew as friend" part.. although I share your opinion it's ridiculous...
There are others which are worse and much more sadistic.. such as crucifying thy enemy.They love to find evil rather than goodness.
When pride and arrogance appears.. certainly the devil is near...
The chap in Jaf's last picture, holding up the sign saying "Muslims rise up..", he was on a Channel 4 programme with his idiotic friends a couple of months ago. He said he had "fatigue syndrome " and therefore couldn't work and was proud of the fact that he was claiming Social Welfare benefits. Yet he was sufficiently energetic enough to go to these stupid protests, get rowdy with the police and to sit at home, eating chicken and chips, watching ISIS' beheadings. It was an actual, real life demonstration of the comedy, 'Four Lions'. Nothing surprises me anymore.
Fatigue syndrome... rotfl rotfl
Never mind them.. as the formula is
Ignorance + Arrogance = IrrelevanceSurvival of the fittest... for human context it's actually Survival of the nicest..
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Seemed like an earthquake happened to this page. Had to reload it. Never saw a page shake endlessly ever.
How many nuts can be like that?
It is depressing.
Salaam
I was interested in that also. Found some people supporting it -\
Watch out. Crazy Defense Ahead
The author is not saying it to make it sound better; he doesn't care how disbelievers thinks it sounds.
He's saying it because readers on the internet have piss-poor reading comprehension and will allege that he said that Muslims living in non-Muslim countries should engage in extra-judicial executions of apostates.
A country has a law on the books that apostasy is a capital offense, punishable by execution.
An apostate is free to leave the country. He doesn't.
He can keep quiet about his apostasy. He doesn't.
Instead, he remains and is open about his apostasy.
He is tried in a court of law and given every opportunity to publicly recant. He refuses.
He is held for three days. During his captivity, every effort is made to convince him of the error of his ways and to return to the fold. He still refuses.
He can lie if he wants. He still refuses.
He is executed. He's got precisely what he deserves under the law.
https//www.reddit.com/r/Islaam/comments/3eahh3/of_course_apostates_should_be_executed_bassam/Debate over how it is just http//www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?322593-Ofcourse-Apostates-Should-be-Killed
This human trash still don't understand we are neither modernist nor liberals, we follow only the Qur'an.
By the way, two Sunno-apologist webs have debunked the views of the charlatan Bassam ZAWADI, owner of the Wahhabi web Call to Monotheism. Look
a) http//abuaminaelias.com/did-the-prophet-kill-apostates-who-convert-to-another-religion/
"In conclusion, the death penalty for apostasy is restricted by the Prophet?s other statements and actions which make clear that this punishment applies only to those who commit high treason against the Muslim community"
b) http//www.answering-christianity.com/apostates.htm
I didn't know that site had wahhabi owner. Confusion could have been avoided. They just needed to title the website as call-to-pharaohism.com. Shaytan doesn't like Quran. Thanks for the links. But it is true that their hadith instructs the killing of apostates. But then there are some which say don't. Shaytan will pick the worst and because of this, hadiths are injurious to masses.
I agree with the underlined statement above..
It's clear that in the religion of Islam, Apostate must be killed and Kuffar must be either converted, enslaved or killed..
Killing the apostate is key for the survivability of Islam.
It will instill FEAR upon the heart of people who are thinking to leave the religion of Islam or criticize it's dogma..
They will think one hundred times before even trying to do so..While converting, enslaving or killing the Kuffar, the enemy of Allah is key for the expansion and glory of Islam.
Islam or Freemasonry/Scientology?
In today's time, those two don't allow members to leave. The only option is death.Shaytayn must have his say, the question is "why are some listening to him"? hmm
Its important to know how the shaytan thinks or we risk coming under his truck
Talk about flimsy analogies.
He says each person should be free to practice their religion and if "the West" is against their apostasy law they are hypocrites, but the reasoning is flawed. If the apostate has left Islam and has another religion he is free to believe in it and if they then kill him he is not free to believe in his religion because they killed him for changing his belief system into what he found to be truer.
The freedom to choose religion is supposed to protects people from such atrocities that the proponent advocates. He has not understood the concept of freedom to practice one's religion.
He is blinded by shaytan. Don't expect him to realize that he is wrong.
As long as Quran's flawed interpretation has authority people will argue this way though even if hadith are removed. Quran incites hatred towards so-called disbelievers and a "true" Muslim cannot even have a Christian or Jew as a friend if they are true to to their own scripture. Most Muslims including those in this forum are too proud to realize this and question what Quran really says.
If only a person goes by just one verse...
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Too many people saying what the Qur'an says and who could nnot care less about what the Qur'an does say. This i it with aotasy as well as with many other things. They do ot want the Qur'an to give light, they want their own darkness to rule.
They are indeed servants of shaytan. And thoe who would believe hem rather than bbelieve the Qur'an equally servants of the shaytaan. They love to find evil rather than goodness.
Salaam
Doesn't the Qur'an divide human beings into "Mumin" and "Kuffar" who are waging war against Allah?
Who is in your opinion a "kafir"?
Why do almost ALL Muslims and Islamic "scholars/clerics/imams" believe that almost everyone who is not a "Muslim" is automatically a dirty kafir who is doomed to eternal hellfire? If everyone just "misunderstands" the Qur'an, then why did God allow such a misunderstanding to occur instead of clearly explaining what a kafir really is in the Qur'an? Or does He WANT us to be confused so that we will continue to spill each others' blood on earth to fulfill God's lust for blood and violence? Does God WANT divisions, hatred and violence among human beings ???
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Doesn't the Qur'an divide human beings into "Mumin" and "Kuffar" who are waging war against Allah?
Where does it do that? Quote ayas, please becaue otherwie I donot know what you are talkinng about..
Who is in your opinion a "kafir"?
someone who DELIBERATELY conceals the truth and tries that it remain hidden.
Why do almost ALL Muslims and Islamic "scholars/clerics/imams" believe that almost everyone who is not a "Muslim" is automatically a dirty kafir who is doomed to eternal hellfire? If everyone just "misunderstands" the Qur'an, then why did God allow such a misunderstanding to occur instead of clearly explaining what a kafir really is in the Qur'an? Or does He WANT us to be confused so that we will continue to spill each others' blood on earth to fulfill God's lust for blood and violence? Does God WANT divisions, hatred and violence among human beings ???
I do not think that assertion is true. Unless you consider scholars, cleris, imams only those that do what you say or that you supoe only those who claim to be thi or that are this or that.
On the other hand,you should ot ask that to me unles you consider me scholar or a cleric or imam, if not I am surely nnot the person to ask a question that only those that do what you say they do, could answer,because simply those who say that I cannot by any stretch cosider them scholars, clerics, imams n any qura'nic way, clowns may be, but not any authority in divine revelation.
Salaam
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Watch out. Crazy Defense Ahead
From reel
"Its important to know how the shaytan thinks or we risk coming under his truck"
Guidance (Quran) would be a better road than to entertain yourself by seeking out Shaytayn.
Also Allah explains the attributes of Shaytsayn via Quran kareem. By the way Shaytayn=negativity (should be avoided)
(Allah=positive) should be embraced. Not so hard to figure out. Let's stay positive!The Quran advises us to seek refuge from the one who you have quoted.
peace
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Yes that is a very very simplified way of looking at it, i.e. Satan =negativity and Allah = positivity, yet it works well as an analogy if you know the meaning of it.
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The prophet (and the Caliphs, Kings, Sultans etc.) definitely killed apostates, so if you are still a member of the Islamic cult, you must be consistent and also accept it. And if you refuse to accept this Islamic rule, you will also become an apostate and deserve to be put to death.. rotfl
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Peace Recluse,
Why do almost ALL Muslims and Islamic "scholars/clerics/imams" believe that almost everyone who is not a "Muslim" is automatically a dirty kafir who is doomed to eternal hellfire? If everyone just "misunderstands" the Qur'an, then why did God allow such a misunderstanding to occur instead of clearly explaining what a kafir really is in the Qur'an? Or does He WANT us to be confused so that we will continue to spill each others' blood on earth to fulfill God's lust for blood and violence? Does God WANT divisions, hatred and violence among human beings ???
I call this semantic drift. Quran calls this tongue twisting
378 And from among them is a group who twist their tongues with the Book so that you may think it is from the Book, while it is not from the Book, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.
Those who twist tongues are actually Islamic "scholars/clerics/imams".
Consider that these imams say that People of the Book are only Jews and Christians, while it is clear from Quran that Muslims are also included in the list.
Funny enough, they say that Jewish and Christian Scriptures are falsified, and Quran is authentic. So they call People of the Book those who do not have one anymore, but reject that calling to the only ones who have one hmmSemantic drift was the power given to Shaytan by God. You were forbidden to listen to those that do semantic drift, but if you do it, you will run into confusion (i.e. nar, fire) as predicted in Quran.
So a kafir is someone who hides (ka-fa-ra) the truth once he has received it. It may very well apply to Islamic clerics.