The proof of 3 Salat in Quran
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Eleikumu Selam brother,
i have read what you wrote, i am glad we share the same view. Since a few months i practice Islam and I am very happy that i understand about praying times. I am new at this forum and I would like to know, did someone research how to pray and what to say. I have been researching this for a few weeks and it seems that surah 1010 tells what to say in prayer. Also i wonder when praying to Allah surah ihlas, felek and nas, if we should say qul/say, i do not find it logical to pray and ask for help and to say to Allah, Qul. Reciting a Surah i understand that we should not take the word qul out, but when praying i really wonder. Saying to Allah say, i really can not, only He can say to me say.
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Wa-alaykum Salaam brother,
Glory be to Allah the One Who Guides whomever He wills towards the Straight Path.
I myself have researched both of those, but there are plenty of different opinions as to salaat in this forum. Some will argue that it means commitment, others will argue that it involves no movements...
To me the Salaat encompasses that which they argue about and its specific meaning depends on context.
I acknowledge salaat involves reciting/listening to recitation of Quran, 1.standing 2.bowing 3.prostratingI personally begin with a Glorification
Then I stand firm(standing) for as long as possible, especially while reciting, like a plant on its roots with my arms outward withy palm facing up like the leaves of a plant taking in sunlight.
Then once a particular Surah is finished I am driven to my knees by humility (bowing).
The above can be repeated as wanted if you are in your own privacy.
I conclude my prayer by prostrating my face while assuming a fetal like position in which I sometimes find a familiar nostalgic comfort and proclaiming All Praise to the Lord of the Worlds.
Sometimes however, I prostrate my face sequentially after bowing depending on how moved I am by the recitation.
Perhaps I went too much in to detail about my own salaat, but just wanted to share and give you an idea, instead of beating around the bush. Everything above is only MY preference but as long as you do not exceed the limits and follow Quran's instruction I think you are allowed to have your own individualized sequence of movements or no movements(for example the elderly or handicapped) as long as Quran recitation is involved.
As far as prayers go I have done an extensive research in the beginning of my conversion.
Couple of examples
I searched through every ayaah that contained the word pray/prayer/prayers/praying etc..
And I searched through every ayaah that contained the word say/QulI found specific prayers for salaat which I use in my salaat.
Also i wonder when praying to Allah surah ihlas, felek and nas, if we should say qul/say, i do not find it logical to pray and ask for help and to say to Allah, Qul. Reciting a Surah i understand that we should not take the word qul out, but when praying i really wonder. Saying to Allah say, i really can not, only He can say to me say.
When I recite those Surahs in my salaat I simply omit Qul or say.
But I also wonder the possibility of these surahs being commandments from Allah directly and solely to the Prophet for the disbelievers.
However, I also try to periodically read every surah during salat so reading those surahs and saying Qul does not seem like a big deal -
Selam brother,
I also searched in Quran for Kul and Kulli and found many ayet that can be used in a prayer like 1316, 1780, 1781, 17108 and 17111. I am far in my research, but i am almost convinced that the prayer should begin with Subhaneke Allahume and then surah el fatiha, on bowing Selam, Greeting Allah and the end of prayer on prostration i say El hamdulilahi Rabbi Alemin. I think this is correct, because i think surah 1010 explains this.
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Selam brother,
I also searched in Quran for Kul and Kulli and found many ayet that can be used in a prayer like 1316, 1780, 1781, 17108 and 17111. I am far in my research, but i am almost convinced that the prayer should begin with Subhaneke Allahume and then surah el fatiha, on bowing Selam, Greeting Allah and the end of prayer on prostration i say El hamdulilahi Rabbi Alemin. I think this is correct, because i think surah 1010 explains this.
Salaam brother,
Perhaps you are one the ones I have been waiting for...
We pray almost exactly the same way. I would say, however don't use 1010 entirely as a guideline for salat it is more of an allegory for Paradise and Yawmidiin. The guideline for salat could be more loose than we are performing it.
In other words as long as some incorporate glorification, supplication, either standing or kneeling or prostrating or all three(whatever they are physically able to do), and Quran, and humility and gratefulness, I think it is also correct. I think the specifics may be up to how the individual interprets the guidelines.
However, I do think it is telling that we arrived at very similar conclusions for performing salaat. It might be yet another great Sign from my Lord to me.
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Selam Brother,
I do not use Surah 10>10 entirely as a guideline, but when people in Jennah use this to greet Allah, my logic says to me that these people are the ones who are good Muslims and that perhaps this is a way how we should pray.
About kneeling i am not sure, it is only mentioned once in Quran You will see every community kneeling. Every community will be called to view their record. Today, you get paid for everything you have done.So Kneeling is only once in Quran and is not part of the prayer. I think, i will investigate more. Arabic word for kneeling is djasijeten.
I am not sure about bowing and prostating, when and how, but I do my best to understand.
Surah 7161 it is written sudjeden and it means prostrating thru the gate ( that is not possible to do, prostrate thru a gate ) Surah 258 also tells about sujjadan thru the gate. Surah 4154 also sujjadan thru the gate.
Is there a different meaning in sujad and sudjud? Or does it mean bowing? Or is it prostrating before the gate and enter?
And Surah 3824 is translated to bowing in prostration in Arabic Ve Harre Raki'an Enab, no sudju, but raki'an, why?
Surah 343 Ve Sudjudi ve rke'i me'a raka'in
Surah 2125 waalrrukkaAAi alssujoodi
Surah 1315 jesdjudun
Surah 7206 jesdjudu
Surah 17107 sudjedaHolding Quran while praying? Are these ayet telling us to hold the Quran while praying or not?
7170 Ve Lezine jumeskine bilkitabi
2945 Utlu ma Uhije Ilejke minel Kitabi
3529 Inne lezine JetluneKitaba LahiveI am happy we both searchfor the same answers and we both search the Kul and Kulli word and look what is good to use for prayer. Ask Allah Surah 20114 rabbi zidnee Aailman, we can use this before reading Quran or when we want to function better and learn better
Surah 258 hittatun asking Allah to forgive us, where in Quran can I find Estagfirullah? That is what i learned to use, but in Quran you can read Hitatun. I use Hitatun on prostration.
The next ayet we could use in prayer are
232,
2120 Inna Huda-Lahi Huve l Huda,
2201,2255
32,326,327,373,374,3109,3189
4126,4131,4132,4171
517,5120
6161,6162
We should not use whole ayet , in surah 6162 Say Lo! my worship and, my sacrifice and my living and my dying are for Allah, Lord of the Worlds. Qul inna salatee wanusukee wamahyaya wamamatee lillahi rabbi alAAalameena. So we take away the say/Qul and pray inna salatee wanusukee wamahyaya wamamatee lillahi rabbi alAAalameenaIf we recite Quran we say Qul, but if we pray i think we should not say Qul
I believe that Allah clearly tells us to use ayet from Quran to pray and to not to turn our head east and west in surah 2177 (surah 2144 already tells us that the direction of prayer is changed). Surah 679 -681, explains this too, i think.Important is Not to mention any other names than the names of Allah subhanahu wa ta ala in the prayer.
Is Subhanahu wa ta ala, good to say after Allah or not?
Then comes this question Where in Quran can i find SUBHANE RABIJEL AZIM, SEMIALLAHU LIMEN HAMIDEH, RABENA LEKEL HAMD, SUBHANE RABIJEL ?ALA, RABBI GFIR LI, SUBHANEKE ALLAHUMME VEBIHAMDIKE VE TEBAREKESMUKE VE TE ALA D?EDDUKE VE LA ILAHE GAJRUK, ESTAGHFIRULLAH ( 232 tells us Subhaneke La Ilma, should we not use this in place of Subhane rabijel ala or Subhane Rabijel azim? And is it not better to use Subhaneke Allahume? )
Also Allahu Ekber no where in Quran, Valahu Ekber i think i have seen somewhere. and 17111 alhamdu lillahi allathee lam yattakhith waladan walam yakun lahu shareekun fee almulki walam yakun lahu waliyyun mina alththulli wakabbirhu takbeeran should we use ALLAHU EKBER after tekbir?
Surah 6818 Wala yastathnoona, translation is if Allah wills, we say In Shaa Allah, I do not understand what it really means in Arabic and where in Quran i can find In shaa Allah
Maybe you have some answers, I will post my research when i am ready, this will take a few weeks if not months. I will post it when I am sure about everything.
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As i said in my previous post i do not understand sudju, this because prostrating thru the gate, so maybe sudju is not physical. There are people who think it is not. I AM NOT SURE. But here is a text of someone who thinks it is not physical
http//www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/Summary-problems-sujud-prostration-Quran.html
Some say that only El Fatiha should be used is prayer here is the link http//www.realquran.net/quran-articles/6-religious-questions/18-proof-that-prayers-should-only-be-with-alfatiha-alone
About sudju i read this
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html and
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.034/150.%20Isjidoo%20Seen%20Jeem%20Daal/150.%20Isjidoo%20Seen%20Jeem%20Daal.htm
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Surah 6818 Wala yastathnoona, translation is if Allah wills, we say In Shaa Allah, I do not understand what it really means in Arabic and where in Quran i can find In shaa Allah
I found In Shaa Allah in surah 1299, In Shaa Allah Aminin
Selam Brother,
Then comes this question Where in Quran can i find SUBHANE RABIJEL AZIM, SEMIALLAHU LIMEN HAMIDEH, RABENA LEKEL HAMD, SUBHANE RABIJEL ?ALA, RABBI GFIR LI, SUBHANEKE ALLAHUMME VEBIHAMDIKE VE TEBAREKESMUKE VE TE ALA D?EDDUKE VE LA ILAHE GAJRUK, ESTAGHFIRULLAH ( 232 tells us Subhaneke La Ilma, should we not use this in place of Subhane rabijel ala or Subhane Rabijel azim? And is it not better to use Subhaneke Allahume? )
Surah 1298 and 1297 Estagfir, why do we say Estagfirullah?
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However, I do think it is telling that we arrived at very similar conclusions for performing salaat. It might be yet another great Sign from my Lord to me.
Did you get dreams as a sign? I did, maybe we could learn a lot from each other, did you read my other posts about salat and what do you think? I am not sure about a lot of things, but i am learning
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Some say that only El Fatiha should be used is prayer here is the link http//www.realquran.net/quran-articles/6-religious-questions/18-proof-that-prayers-should-only-be-with-alfatiha-alone
I posted this in another thread
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Most of what traditionalists say in salah is not in the Quran, in saying that I think saying subhana rabbil adheem and subhana rabbil Aala are complying with God when he says to glorify those names. As I recall it it is an instruction though I may be misunderstood. I still have limited knowledge of Arabic, and less than ideal Quran translations.
Personally I say subhan Allah instead of Allahu Akbar, my shahaddah is la ilaha ila allahu waHdahu la shareeka lah and I take some time after each prostration to remember my lord as he says in Quran to remember the name of your lord at day break and night and after prostration, or something along those lines I cannot recall exactly. Although in my understanding I believe this is not necessarily meaning just literally I find it a good way to help me focus on my lord in salah
Oh and forgive me for being off topic I also think that al fatiha is the only Quran recitation we need for salah because it is the only chapter I know of which is solely a personal address to our Lord. And making connection with our Lord is the purpose of salah in my understanding
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Most of what traditionalists say in salah is not in the Quran, in saying that I think saying subhana rabbil adheem and subhana rabbil Aala are complying with God when he says to glorify those names. As I recall it it is an instruction though I may be misunderstood. I still have limited knowledge of Arabic, and less than ideal Quran translations.
Personally I say subhan Allah instead of Allahu Akbar, my shahaddah is la ilaha ila allahu waHdahu la shareeka lah and I take some time after each prostration to remember my lord as he says in Quran to remember the name of your lord at day break and night and after prostration, or something along those lines I cannot recall exactly. Although in my understanding I believe this is not necessarily meaning just literally I find it a good way to help me focus on my lord in salah
Oh and forgive me for being off topic I also think that al fatiha is the only Quran recitation we need for salah because it is the only chapter I know of which is solely a personal address to our Lord. And making connection with our Lord is the purpose of salah in my understanding
I think it is good what you do,i use Subhaneke Allahume. You are not off topic, brother. I investigated the salah and how many times we should pray, but I am not sure. This because of maghrib, it is translated as sunset and i think li duluki means setting of sun, but i am not sure. So i hope to get more information from brothers and sisters if i am correct or not. That is why became member on this site. I never was a member of a forum. And my arabic is also not good, that is why i doubt. I ask myself, if arabs do not know for sure, how can i know?
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Salam
I also believe in 2 solat being fajar and isyak as you have explained, and I believe 'wusta' being the period between 'night to day' and 'day to night'.
As for the 3rd solat, for me it is optional for someone who seeks something extra normally being referred to 'tahajjud'.Peace.
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Salam
I also believe in 2 solat being fajar and isyak as you have explained, and I believe 'wusta' being the period between 'night to day' and 'day to night'.
As for the 3rd solat, for me it is optional for someone who seeks something extra normally being referred to 'tahajjud'.Peace.
Selam brother, i really like your picture, i laughed really good LOL
Tahajud is i think the wusta prayer, but i do not understand what you think wusta is. Night to day and day to night, i do not understand, when this is and how you come to this conclusion.
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Selam Brother,
I do not use Surah 10>10 entirely as a guideline, but when people in Jennah use this to greet Allah, my logic says to me that these people are the ones who are good Muslims and that perhaps this is a way how we should pray.
Not necessarily, for example Salaam which is in 1010 is more of a greeting between the dwellers of Paradise among malaika who descend upon them from every gate and man.
About kneeling i am not sure, it is only mentioned once in Quran You will see every community kneeling. Every community will be called to view their record. Today, you get paid for everything you have done.So Kneeling is only once in Quran and is not part of the prayer. I think, i will investigate more. Arabic word for kneeling is djasijeten.
Do not get too bent up on one word and its definition the Quran uses different terms to convey kneeling, in fact, bowing down and sitting also fit the context of prayer and you will find this in a few places in the Quran.
I am not sure about bowing and prostating, when and how, but I do my best to understand.
Surah 7161 it is written sudjeden and it means prostrating thru the gate ( that is not possible to do, prostrate thru a gate ) Surah 258 also tells about sujjadan thru the gate. Surah 4154 also sujjadan thru the gate.
Is there a different meaning in sujad and sudjud? Or does it mean bowing? Or is it prostrating before the gate and enter?
When did Allah command US to go thru a gate brother?
Let us focus on understanding what WE are commanded to. We will not be asked about what the other did.
I have discussed in my previous post 1.standing, 2.sitting and 3.lying on your side which are interchangeable with 1.standing, 2.kneeling/bowing and 3.prostrating.
If you check the root for the arabic equivalent of lying on your side in Arabic lexicons you will find that it entails lying on the face as well hence prostrating.And Surah 3824 is translated to bowing in prostration in Arabic Ve Harre Raki'an Enab, no sudju, but raki'an, why?
Surah 343 Ve Sudjudi ve rke'i me'a raka'in
Surah 2125 waalrrukkaAAi alssujoodi
Surah 1315 jesdjudun
Surah 7206 jesdjudu
Surah 17107 sudjedaYou are thinking way too deep into the description. Dawood simply fell down bowing in humility. This gives us a clearer idea of what bowing might be perhaps kneeling on your hands.
Holding Quran while praying? Are these ayet telling us to hold the Quran while praying or not?
7170 Ve Lezine jumeskine bilkitabi
2945 Utlu ma Uhije Ilejke minel Kitabi
3529 Inne lezine JetluneKitaba LahiveNo they are telling us to recite from the Quran.
holding fast to the Quran is an expression.
Although it would make sense to hold your book while you are reading from it, right?
Many people have misunderstood salat.Salat holds two components Supplication and Remembrance
- Supplication the recital of key prayers from the Quran which are instructed by Allah for the believers to say. It includes standing, sitting and lying on ones side. It is initiated by glorification and terminated by more glorification/ His Praise
- It is followed by the remembrance as it is mentioned in Surah 4. After the prostration from the supplication comes the remembrance which involves the Recital/Reading of Quran. Allah instructs us to read what is easy of the Quran. This is for obvious reasons to fit the Reading within the window of time given for salat and to be able to absorb what is being recited if we are referring to dawn and evening. If you are upholding Al-wusta then you might have the time to go for a longer Surah. This is also terminated by more glorification.
I am happy we both searchfor the same answers and we both search the Kul and Kulli word and look what is good to use for prayer. Ask Allah Surah 20114 rabbi zidnee Aailman, we can use this before reading Quran or when we want to function better and learn better
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I also searched for all the Rabbana ayaats and Allhuma indicating supplication of believers. Those are prayers
Surah 258 hittatun asking Allah to forgive us, where in Quran can I find Estagfirullah? That is what i learned to use, but in Quran you can read Hitatun. I use Hitatun on prostration.
Do you speak Arabic?
The next ayet we could use in prayer are
232,
2120 Inna Huda-Lahi Huve l Huda,
2201,2255
32,326,327,373,374,3109,3189
4126,4131,4132,4171
517,5120
6161,6162
We should not use whole ayet , in surah 6162 Say Lo! my worship and, my sacrifice and my living and my dying are for Allah, Lord of the Worlds. Qul inna salatee wanusukee wamahyaya wamamatee lillahi rabbi alAAalameena. So we take away the say/Qul and pray inna salatee wanusukee wamahyaya wamamatee lillahi rabbi alAAalameenaIf we recite Quran we say Qul, but if we pray i think we should not say Qul
Again, I think it depends whether you are in supplication or remembrance. In supplication you are calling unto your Lord directly, so it would not make sense to include Qul or say.
Though if you were in Remembrance and you were reciting an ayaat I dont see why you should omit or skip words from the Quran.Do you get me?
The understanding of what I am relating, is contingent upon accepting the reality of salat encompassing two modes Dialogue and then upholding of The ReadingYes I use the same ayaats myself during supplication and omit reciting qul from those ayaats containing the word say. But when I am Recting the Quran during Remembrance I recite verbatim what is in front of me.
Is Subhanahu wa ta ala, good to say after Allah or not?
Brother I think your approach is to look at Sunni culture and filter it through the Quran to see what is correct and what is wrong as pertaining the deen. But that approach is obsolete. Just focus on the Quran alone and dont be concerned with filtering through the traditional repertoire.
This question has nothing to do with the deenThen comes this question Where in Quran can i find SUBHANE RABIJEL AZIM, SEMIALLAHU LIMEN HAMIDEH, RABENA LEKEL HAMD, SUBHANE RABIJEL ALA, RABBI GFIR LI, SUBHANEKE ALLAHUMME VEBIHAMDIKE VE TEBAREKESMUKE VE TE
Again same concept as above dont look through the traditionalist sectarian approach and attempt to filter it through the Quran. It's a hassle and it is an erroneous assumption. What you are doing is essentially assuming that the things that are practiced by the sectarians originate from the Quran. This for most things is definitely not true.
As i said in my previous post i do not understand sudju, this because prostrating thru the gate, so maybe sudju is not physical. There are people who think it is not. I AM NOT SURE. But here is a text of someone who thinks it is not physical
http//www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/Summary-problems-sujud-prostration-Quran.html
I wouldnt rely on his interpretation for all cases. I have stated to him before that some words change meaning depending on context. This is not particularly Wakas but some people seek one universal definition that fits in every instance in the Quran. That premise is absolutely absurd.
Some say that only El Fatiha should be used is prayer here is the link http//www.realquran.net/quran-articles/6-religious-questions/18-proof-that-prayers-should-only-be-with-alfatiha-alone
Not true at all.
There are many ayaats in which Allah describes the believers praying the prayers which I pray in my salat.ALA DEDDUKE VE LA ILAHE GAJRUK, ESTAGHFIRULLAH ( 232 tells us Subhaneke La Ilma, should we not use this in place of Subhane rabijel ala or Subhane Rabijel azim? And is it not better to use Subhaneke Allahume? )
Think about what you are saying brother calm down. La ilma means No knwoledge why would you use that in your salat? And why would you repeat something the Angels say to Allah after they were humbled?
No you should not replace that at all.
Just glorify Allah how you see the righteous glorifying Allah in the Quran and how Allah instructs you to glorify Him.Subhane rabijel ala or Subhane Rabijel azim or Subhaneke Allahume or Rabbana
or whatever else is used in the Quran is perfectly sound. Do not stress over these minor nitty gritty details.Also Allahu Ekber no where in Quran, Valahu Ekber i think i have seen somewhere. and 17111 alhamdu lillahi allathee lam yattakhith waladan walam yakun lahu shareekun fee almulki walam yakun lahu waliyyun mina alththulli wakabbirhu takbeeran should we use ALLAHU EKBER after tekbir?
All these questions to me brother, just show an obsession with tradition. Forget about comparing what traditionalist do with Quran. Just focus on Quran brother.
Surah 6818 Wala yastathnoona, translation is if Allah wills, we say In Shaa Allah, I do not understand what it really means in Arabic and where in Quran i can find In shaa Allah
In Shaa Allah just means if God wills(paraphrased translation).
Maybe I am not understanding the question well, but
How could you not know what in Shaa Allah means if you have read Quran?
You have no knowledge nor control over the future so you cannot claim with certainty anything about the future unless Allah wills it to be so. Other than that you are just boastfully making assertions in arrogance and God does not like the arrogant.Maybe you have some answers, I will post my research when i am ready, this will take a few weeks if not months. I will post it when I am sure about everything.
Fine, but do not be so obsessed with comparison between sectarian islam and the unadulterated pure Message conveyed in Quran Alone. Just follow Quran alone and submit to the One Who Guides so that He can direct you to the proper understanding of the matter.
Surah 1298 and 1297 Estagfir, why do we say Estagfirullah?
It just a plead for forgiveness from Allah.
What is your native language??
If it is not Arabic why are you so obsessed with repeating words and phrases you cannot understand?
That is not what salat is about. If you are reciting words in Arabic and they resound no meaning to you. You have misunderstood the point of salat.
Pray in a language you understand and can speak fluentlyI hope Allah aids me in saying what is good.
Peace
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Salam
I also believe in 2 solat being fajar and isyak as you have explained, and I believe 'wusta' being the period between 'night to day' and 'day to night'.
As for the 3rd solat, for me it is optional for someone who seeks something extra normally being referred to 'tahajjud'.Peace.
Why not one salat instead of two?
Or, better, why not 0?
After all, islam is only spiritual submission, isn't? )
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Tahajud is i think the wusta prayer, but i do not understand what you think wusta is. Night to day and day to night, i do not understand, when this is and how you come to this conclusion.
See parts 11 and 16 here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html -
See parts 11 and 16 here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.htmlYes i read it, also i read this after i investigated my own research and i have put some of this research in my own research, i believe it is you who wrote this.
I still do not understand what you think is the wusta prayer. Maybe my English is not very good, so i can make a mistake,i try not to make mistakes.
