Allah stoning devils with stars?

huruf

There is nothing allegorical here.. just stop denying. )

You think this is the only ayaat? It is spelled out in MANY words and MANY other chapters stop rejecting folks.

I really cannot decide about those of you arguing these clear facts. I am not sure whether

you are not rightly guided because you follow Western modernism hence neoprogressive islam
there is disease within in your hearts
you are misinformation agents
"trolling shills" (for lack of a better term)
just not familiar with the Quran after all

HP, I see that you hand condemnation right and left, but I have looked carefully through all the thread to see what you understand of those ayas and I have not seen any statement of yours with such undertanding, so can you tell what you get from those ayas.

Salaam

Recluse

I love it when you psychoanalyse us for free, Recluse, you put so much passion and emotion into it, that we can't help feeling grateful.

Salaam

I'm being psychoanalyzed myself for free as well.. as having a "disease in my heart" and having "bad intentions" )

But I know how you guys feel, I used to react exactly like you.

Peace

huruf

I'm being psychoanalyzed myself for free as well.. as having a "disease in my heart" and such...

But I know how you guys feel, I used to react exactly like you...

Peace

So you wre happy like us, that is great, we are all psychoanalised and hppy like in the old french song.

Salaam

Recluse

I'm much happier now, using my reason and conscience makes me feel happier. Instead of fearing eternal Hellfire.

huruf

So you are indeed capable of imagining an "eternal fire". You admire me. I find it impossible. I admire people who are so over capable of handling thing so much bigger than themselves...

May be they hve very good psychanalists fo get to such heights.

Salaam

imrankhawaja

Why are two completely different words (none of them being the usual one meaning star) translated as "stars" in this translation chosen by the poster.

Does anybody know here what he or she is talking about?

Imran is right. People should have at least the humility to acknowledge that they do not have an idea of what is being dealt with in those ayas.

But for the poster the overriding need to ridicule the Qur'an seems to trump everything.

huruf, peace

its all about the linking topics no doubt we are not sure about the full understanding of things which we have no control off,

and time by time God
gives us examples like mosquito bees, these small things yet the powerful side of them , asterioids are actually out of our control but these small things we cant even get our food back from bee if she take it, thats something God said in quran,

if humans really think they are able to point out mistakes and illogical things , infact they forget that the interpretation are from human beings , and human beings always learn by expperiments, and can do mistakes as well, its unjust to impose mistakes of humans to God.

examples of quran things are for human mind in a sense of simili/methapohrically , thats how humans beings understand things, but human being always very investigating , and from there the issues and misunderstanding starts, example is here nobody really knows what is the mechansim of asterioids/comets how they formed where they formed how they work? but what people like to critise on things which they have no power or knowledge offf, thats what happening here,

good_logic

Peace HP_TECH

Are you saying all Qoran verses are clear now?

1-Please describe what Jinns look like and where we can find them?

2- Did the people at the time of the prophet understand all the verses of Qoran?

What is clear in Qoran is how one redeems himself. The most important and relevant message,how to lead one s life is crystal clear. The rest we have to accept that some "future happenings" or some things that include other creations/dimensions may get clearer to us or to the future generations as GOD intends.
So ,brother what GOD does to Jinns ,how He makes the stars/black holes/...do to Jinns we can only speculate.
We know everything that GOD created has a purpose. We also know that certain limits are put on us and Jinns and other creations.
I believe in GOD. I believe GOD. I accept that certain verses in Qoran are still not clear to me yet. I patiently await the Lord s will to be done as GOD sees fit
.I am not going to pretend I understand everything. But I know GOD s word is the truth. I trust GOD and in GOD.
The future belongs to GOD. So I am waiting.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

excellent post, GL

thats what i think and beleive,

somewhere in quran allah also say the same thing, its Allah who know the real meanings of verses.

Allah explains the future things in the shape of examples , in reality these examples are worldy laws like water flow downward due to the law of gravity. time go forward , time law,

but can we understand if we reach in a place where we see the reverse of gravity and the reverse of time, we can understand when we will be assemble again it will like a broken glass join again in reverse motion, which is not really possible here, but for Allah everything is possible, so making us understand God claims things which seem impossible some time, but its impossible for us, not for God

examples are still here , a director of a movie can cut, organise, reset , the film the way he want, he can also see a result by forwarding it and he can also go back if some mistakes shoots happen, but he still cant see the ending nd beggings at same time even if he manage to use two cds on two different screens he can only focus on one at a time,

our problem starts when we try to compare our powers with God to understand God.

allah knnows what is before us and what will after us, 2255

spodacus

Salam, depends on if the use of the term "devils" is of physical entities or allegorical description of something else. If physical entities then surely it should be interpreted literally. But if allegorical for something else, then the ayaat should be interpreted allegorically as well.

There is nothing allegorical here.. just stop denying.

You think this is the only ayaat? It is spelled out in MANY words and MANY other chapters stop rejecting folks.

I really cannot decide about those of you arguing these clear facts. I am not sure whether

you are not rightly guided because you follow Western modernism hence neoprogressive islam
there is disease within in your hearts
you are misinformation agents
"trolling shills" (for lack of a better term)
just not familiar with the Quran after all

HP_TECH

Salam, depends on if the use of the term "devils" is of physical entities or allegorical description of something else. If physical entities then surely it should be interpreted literally. But if allegorical for something else, then the ayaat should be interpreted allegorically as well.

I understand your argument perfectly, but there are too many Signs/Ayaats that depict this scenario in other words which cannot be argued about as being allegorical.

Brothers I do not mean to sound condescending, but are you familiar with the Quran at all?

Or did you read the Quran once and expect to grasp its Message?

I converted approximately 3 years ago and I have not stopped Reading it since. I have read the entire Quran in many translations from traditionalists, to progressives, free-minds, word for word literal translations and corpus.quran.com. From cover to cover!
Once I began from 1 to 114 then from 114 all the way back. Everytime I commence the Book, I grasp concepts more clearly or understand things I priorly did not. The Quran is not something you read once and then discuss upon it!
It is the vital component of Salat. Uphold the Scripture my people!
You think my interpretation is regressive only because you are fundamentally unfamiliar with all the other Ayaats that convey this concept.
This is irrefutable stand with me not against me brothers

HP_TECH

If you are true Muslims and not hypocrites then do not reject the Signs of your Lord and do not seek to corrupt the Message with false progressive ideals. Only serve and worship ALLAH being sincere to Him in the deen. Do not attempt to serve two Masters. Your only Protector is Allah, therefore uphold the truth and support those who relay to you the Messages of Allah in Truth. I ask no payment from any of you. I have none to benefit from these discourses except the reward from Allah in the Hereafter. Hearken to my voice O believers!

1514-18

1514 Walaw fatahna AAalayhim baban mina alssama-i fathalloo feehi yaAArujoona
1515 Laqaloo innama sukkirat absaruna bal nahnu qawmun mashooroona
1516 Walaqad jaAAalna fee alssama-i buroojan wazayyannaha lilnnathireena
1517 Wahafithnaha min kulli shaytanin rajeemin
1518 Illa mani istaraqa alssamAAa faatbaAAahu shihabun mubeenun

1514 And (even) if We opened to them a gate from the heaven, and they were to continue therein (to) ascend,
1515 They would surely say "Only have been dazzled our eyes. Nay, we (are) a people bewitched."
1516 And verily We have placed in the heavens constellations and We have beautified it for the observers.
1517 And We have protected it from every devil accursed.
1518 Except (one) who steals the hearing, then follows him a burning flame clear.

2132

2132 WajaAAalna alssamaa saqfan mahfoothan wahum AAan ayatiha muAAridoon

2132 And We made the sky a roof protected. But they, from its Signs, turn away.

376-10

3706 Inna zayyanna alssamaa alddunya bizeenatin alkawakibi
3707 Wahifthan min kulli shaytanin maridin
3708 La yassammaAAoona ila almala-i al-aAAla wayuqthafoona min kulli janibin
3709 Duhooran walahum AAathabun wasibun
3710 Illa man khatifa alkhatfata faatbaAAahu shihabun thaqibun

3706 Indeed, We adorned the sky with an adornment (of) the stars.
3707 And (to) guard against every devil rebellious,
3708 Not they may listen to the assembly exalted, are pelted from every side,
3709 Repelled; and for them (is) a punishment perpetual,
3710 Except (him) who snatches (by) theft but follows him a burning flame, piercing.

4112

4112 Faqadahunna sabAAa samawatin fee yawmayni waawha fee kulli sama-in amraha wazayyanna alssamaa alddunya bimasabeeha wahifthan thalika taqdeeru alAAazeezi alAAaleemi

4112 Then He completed them (as) seven heavens in two periods and He revealed in each heaven its affair. And We adorned the heaven, with lamps and (to) guard. That (is the) Decree (of) the All-Mighty, the All-Knower.

675

Walaqad zayyanna alssamaa alddunya bimasabeeha wajaAAalnaha rujooman lilshshayateeni waaAAtadna lahum AAathaba alssaAAeeri

And certainly We have beautified the heaven nearest with lamps, and We have made them (as) missiles for the devils, and We have prepared for them punishment (of) the Blaze.

7201

728-9

7212

7201 Qul oohiya ilayya annahu istamaAAa nafarun mina aljinni faqaloo inna samiAAna qur-anan AAajaban
7208 Waanna lamasna alssamaa fawajadnaha muli-at harasan shadeedan washuhuban
7209 Waanna kunna naqAAudu minha maqaAAida lilssamAAi faman yastamiAAi al-ana yajid lahu shihaban rasadan
7212 Wanna thananna an lan nuAAjiza Allaha fee al-ardi walan nuAAjizahu haraban

7201 Say, "It has been to me that listened a group of the jinn, and they said, "Indeed, we heard a Quran amazing,....
7208 ....And that we sought to touch the heaven but we found it filled (with) guards severe, and flaming fires.
7209 And that we used to sit there in positions for hearing, but (he) who listens now will find for him a flaming fire waiting.
7212 And that we have become certain that never we will cause failure (to) Allah in the earth and never we can escape Him (by) flight.

JavaLatte

I don't have any "bad intentions"

I don't trust you.

but you have blind faith,

If I don't use my reasoning, then most likely I don't accept the Qur'an.

I know for sure that I will not attain peace and happiness if I behave like you.

Insha'Allah, I'm not going to stop you, because I know that you have no power at all to misguide people, and I know that the true righteous people will not follow you.

I think that we will reap what we sow.

which is the problem

Problem for?

I don't have any "disease in my heart" either like someone else claimed..

How do you know?

These are "verses" to frighten

I know that there are verses to frighten.

and prevent people from using their God-given reason,

I think the Qur'an challenges the readers to think and ponder.

they were meant to terrorize you...

Probably.

I tend to think that humans need to be threatened by their Creator. As a human, I agree that my negative part should be minimized or even shut down.

I'm much happier now, using my reason and conscience makes me feel happier. Instead of fearing eternal Hellfire.

I think your posts don't show true happiness.

Peace.

JavaLatte

If you are true Muslims and not hypocrites then do not reject the Signs of your Lord and do not seek to corrupt the Message with false progressive ideals. Only serve and worship ALLAH being sincere to Him in the deen. Do not attempt to serve two Masters. Your only Protector is Allah, therefore uphold the truth and support those who relay to you the Messages of Allah in Truth. I ask no payment from any of you. I have none to benefit from these discourses except the reward from Allah in the Hereafter. Hearken to my voice O believers!

Brother, don't worry about it.

I am quite sure that the believers (I speak about the true believers) will not reject the signs or their Rabb.

But the question is? Is there any believer in this forum?

If I use the Qur'an as source/standard to recognize the muslims and the believers on this forum, then my thought currently, I still don't know if there are believers in FM, and about muslims, hmm, I suppose there are some muslims here, I hope so. Some or few? I cannot sure about it, but, there are few people here who I consider as muslims by seeing how they surrender to their Rabb and/or by seeing how they support their Rabb and/or how they behave toward the Qur'an.

I think there's one important basic key to recognize a muslim He/she behaves humble toward the message/lesson which come from their Rabb.

As for myself, I cannot say that I am a believer, because I think I am far below the believers described in the Qur,'an - but I hope I am a muslim, I hope at least I can be counted as muslim. If someday I return to my Creator, I hope He will accept me and forgive me.

Salam.

mmkhan

Peace,

There are only two ways to believe in alQuraan and all of its aayaat.

Believe what you understand clearly with the help of Allah.
Blindly believe on what you don't understand. Never ever deny any aayat that you don't understand and if you don't have any clue about it.

That is because there are many aayaat that are allegorical to some but clear to others - 37.
And you have to believe them even if you don't understand it's meaning yet. It means you are not upgraded to understand it. Give it some time and try to be honest to Allah and to yourself.

Denying what you don't understand is a common practice of people earlier to you - 1039. How and why is it difficult to believe in those aayaat when Allah has already shown you many others aayaat so clearly that you cannot deny! And those aayaat are part of the same book.
Believing in a part of book and denying the other is surely not a good idea.

Please take a look at the aayaat quoted by clicking on the numbers given.

JavaLatte

Peace,

There are only two ways to believe in alQuraan and all of its aayaat.

Believe what you understand clearly with the help of Allah.
Blindly believe on what you don't understand. Never ever deny any aayat that you don't understand and if you don't have any clue about it.

That is because there are many aayaat that are allegorical to some but clear to others - 37.
And you have to believe them even if you don't understand it's meaning yet. It means you are not upgraded to understand it. Give it some time and try to be honest to Allah and to yourself.

Denying what you don't understand is a common practice of people earlier to you - 1039. How and why is it difficult to believe in those aayaat when Allah has already shown you many others aayaat so clearly that you cannot deny! And those aayaat are part of the same book.
Believing in a part of book and denying the other is surely not a good idea.

Please take a look at the aayaat quoted by clicking on the numbers given.

I think this is a positive input.

Bold Good advice, brother Khan.

And I want to add my personal thought If we truly accept the Qur'an, then do not deny it in any way. Just accept it without any rejection, because I think it is part of surrendering to Allah.

Believe what you understand clearly with the help of Allah.
Blindly believe on what you don't understand. Never ever deny any aayat that you don't understand and if you don't have any clue about it.

Agree.

How and why is it difficult to believe in those aayaat when Allah has already shown you many others aayaat so clearly that you cannot deny! And those aayaat are part of the same book.
Believing in a part of book and denying the other is surely not a good idea.

Indeed.

mmkhan

Peace,

Thanks Java and welcome back handshake

JavaLatte

Peace,

Thanks Java and welcome back handshake

Thank you, brother Khan.

You have a sweet daughter! D

Peace.

mmkhan

Thank you, brother Khan.

You have a sweet daughter! D

Peace.

Peace,

Thanks.
She is one year old now )

spodacus

Salam, yes i agree you must use the whole Message to have a full understanding of a particular subject. I don't think anyone is attacking your understanding of the ayaat itself. It might be that you are giving off a tone of my way or the highway attitude. That is not the right way to offer an understanding of an ayaat.

I myself actually believe that the ayaat is referring to physical entity and possibly comets etc. being used to repel them. However, as a muslim, I am also open to listening to others in a respectful way. Jinns/devils/Shaitan are very complicated subject matter you should not assume you know 100%.

I understand your argument perfectly, but there are too many Signs/Ayaats that depict this scenario in other words which cannot be argued about as being allegorical.

Brothers I do not mean to sound condescending, but are you familiar with the Quran at all?

Or did you read the Quran once and expect to grasp its Message?

I converted approximately 3 years ago and I have not stopped Reading it since. I have read the entire Quran in many translations from traditionalists, to progressives, free-minds, word for word literal translations and corpus.quran.com. From cover to cover!
Once I began from 1 to 114 then from 114 all the way back. Everytime I commence the Book, I grasp concepts more clearly or understand things I priorly did not. The Quran is not something you read once and then discuss upon it!
It is the vital component of Salat. Uphold the Scripture my people!
You think my interpretation is regressive only because you are fundamentally unfamiliar with all the other Ayaats that convey this concept.
This is irrefutable stand with me not against me brothers

HP_TECH

But the question is? Is there any believer in this forum?

If I use the Qur'an as source/standard to recognize the muslims and the believers on this forum, then my thought currently, I still don't know if there are believers in FM, and about muslims, hmm, I suppose there are some muslims here, I hope so. Some or few? I cannot sure about it, but, there are few people here who I consider as muslims by seeing how they surrender to their Rabb and/or by seeing how they support their Rabb and/or how they behave toward the Qur'an.

I think there's one important basic key to recognize a muslim He/she behaves humble toward the message/lesson which come from their Rabb.

I concur

As for myself, I cannot say that I am a believer, because I think I am far below the believers described in the Qur,'an - but I hope I am a muslim, I hope at least I can be counted as muslim. If someday I return to my Creator, I hope He will accept me and forgive me.

Don't sell yourself short sister

82-4

82 Innama almu/minoona allatheena itha thukira Allahu wajilat quloobuhum wa-itha tuliyat AAalayhim ayatuhu zadat-hum eemanan waAAala rabbihim yatawakkaloona
83 Allatheena yuqeemoona alssalata wamimma razaqnahum yunfiqoona
84 Ola-ika humu almu/minoona haqqan lahum darajatun AAinda rabbihim wamaghfiratun warizqun kareemun

82 Only the believers (are) those who when Allah is mentioned feel fear their hearts, and when are recited to them His Verses, they increase them (in) faith, and upon their Lord they put their trust.
83 Those who establish the prayer and out of what We have provided them they spend.
84 Those - they are the believers (in) truth. For them (are) ranks with their Lord and forgiveness and a provision noble.