Allah stoning devils with stars?

imrankhawaja

excellent post, GL

thats what i think and beleive,

somewhere in quran allah also say the same thing, its Allah who know the real meanings of verses.

Allah explains the future things in the shape of examples , in reality these examples are worldy laws like water flow downward due to the law of gravity. time go forward , time law,

but can we understand if we reach in a place where we see the reverse of gravity and the reverse of time, we can understand when we will be assemble again it will like a broken glass join again in reverse motion, which is not really possible here, but for Allah everything is possible, so making us understand God claims things which seem impossible some time, but its impossible for us, not for God

examples are still here , a director of a movie can cut, organise, reset , the film the way he want, he can also see a result by forwarding it and he can also go back if some mistakes shoots happen, but he still cant see the ending nd beggings at same time even if he manage to use two cds on two different screens he can only focus on one at a time,

our problem starts when we try to compare our powers with God to understand God.

allah knnows what is before us and what will after us, 2255

spodacus

Salam, depends on if the use of the term "devils" is of physical entities or allegorical description of something else. If physical entities then surely it should be interpreted literally. But if allegorical for something else, then the ayaat should be interpreted allegorically as well.

There is nothing allegorical here.. just stop denying.

You think this is the only ayaat? It is spelled out in MANY words and MANY other chapters stop rejecting folks.

I really cannot decide about those of you arguing these clear facts. I am not sure whether

you are not rightly guided because you follow Western modernism hence neoprogressive islam
there is disease within in your hearts
you are misinformation agents
"trolling shills" (for lack of a better term)
just not familiar with the Quran after all

HP_TECH

Salam, depends on if the use of the term "devils" is of physical entities or allegorical description of something else. If physical entities then surely it should be interpreted literally. But if allegorical for something else, then the ayaat should be interpreted allegorically as well.

I understand your argument perfectly, but there are too many Signs/Ayaats that depict this scenario in other words which cannot be argued about as being allegorical.

Brothers I do not mean to sound condescending, but are you familiar with the Quran at all?

Or did you read the Quran once and expect to grasp its Message?

I converted approximately 3 years ago and I have not stopped Reading it since. I have read the entire Quran in many translations from traditionalists, to progressives, free-minds, word for word literal translations and corpus.quran.com. From cover to cover!
Once I began from 1 to 114 then from 114 all the way back. Everytime I commence the Book, I grasp concepts more clearly or understand things I priorly did not. The Quran is not something you read once and then discuss upon it!
It is the vital component of Salat. Uphold the Scripture my people!
You think my interpretation is regressive only because you are fundamentally unfamiliar with all the other Ayaats that convey this concept.
This is irrefutable stand with me not against me brothers

HP_TECH

If you are true Muslims and not hypocrites then do not reject the Signs of your Lord and do not seek to corrupt the Message with false progressive ideals. Only serve and worship ALLAH being sincere to Him in the deen. Do not attempt to serve two Masters. Your only Protector is Allah, therefore uphold the truth and support those who relay to you the Messages of Allah in Truth. I ask no payment from any of you. I have none to benefit from these discourses except the reward from Allah in the Hereafter. Hearken to my voice O believers!

1514-18

1514 Walaw fatahna AAalayhim baban mina alssama-i fathalloo feehi yaAArujoona
1515 Laqaloo innama sukkirat absaruna bal nahnu qawmun mashooroona
1516 Walaqad jaAAalna fee alssama-i buroojan wazayyannaha lilnnathireena
1517 Wahafithnaha min kulli shaytanin rajeemin
1518 Illa mani istaraqa alssamAAa faatbaAAahu shihabun mubeenun

1514 And (even) if We opened to them a gate from the heaven, and they were to continue therein (to) ascend,
1515 They would surely say "Only have been dazzled our eyes. Nay, we (are) a people bewitched."
1516 And verily We have placed in the heavens constellations and We have beautified it for the observers.
1517 And We have protected it from every devil accursed.
1518 Except (one) who steals the hearing, then follows him a burning flame clear.

2132

2132 WajaAAalna alssamaa saqfan mahfoothan wahum AAan ayatiha muAAridoon

2132 And We made the sky a roof protected. But they, from its Signs, turn away.

376-10

3706 Inna zayyanna alssamaa alddunya bizeenatin alkawakibi
3707 Wahifthan min kulli shaytanin maridin
3708 La yassammaAAoona ila almala-i al-aAAla wayuqthafoona min kulli janibin
3709 Duhooran walahum AAathabun wasibun
3710 Illa man khatifa alkhatfata faatbaAAahu shihabun thaqibun

3706 Indeed, We adorned the sky with an adornment (of) the stars.
3707 And (to) guard against every devil rebellious,
3708 Not they may listen to the assembly exalted, are pelted from every side,
3709 Repelled; and for them (is) a punishment perpetual,
3710 Except (him) who snatches (by) theft but follows him a burning flame, piercing.

4112

4112 Faqadahunna sabAAa samawatin fee yawmayni waawha fee kulli sama-in amraha wazayyanna alssamaa alddunya bimasabeeha wahifthan thalika taqdeeru alAAazeezi alAAaleemi

4112 Then He completed them (as) seven heavens in two periods and He revealed in each heaven its affair. And We adorned the heaven, with lamps and (to) guard. That (is the) Decree (of) the All-Mighty, the All-Knower.

675

Walaqad zayyanna alssamaa alddunya bimasabeeha wajaAAalnaha rujooman lilshshayateeni waaAAtadna lahum AAathaba alssaAAeeri

And certainly We have beautified the heaven nearest with lamps, and We have made them (as) missiles for the devils, and We have prepared for them punishment (of) the Blaze.

7201

728-9

7212

7201 Qul oohiya ilayya annahu istamaAAa nafarun mina aljinni faqaloo inna samiAAna qur-anan AAajaban
7208 Waanna lamasna alssamaa fawajadnaha muli-at harasan shadeedan washuhuban
7209 Waanna kunna naqAAudu minha maqaAAida lilssamAAi faman yastamiAAi al-ana yajid lahu shihaban rasadan
7212 Wanna thananna an lan nuAAjiza Allaha fee al-ardi walan nuAAjizahu haraban

7201 Say, "It has been to me that listened a group of the jinn, and they said, "Indeed, we heard a Quran amazing,....
7208 ....And that we sought to touch the heaven but we found it filled (with) guards severe, and flaming fires.
7209 And that we used to sit there in positions for hearing, but (he) who listens now will find for him a flaming fire waiting.
7212 And that we have become certain that never we will cause failure (to) Allah in the earth and never we can escape Him (by) flight.

JavaLatte

I don't have any "bad intentions"

I don't trust you.

but you have blind faith,

If I don't use my reasoning, then most likely I don't accept the Qur'an.

I know for sure that I will not attain peace and happiness if I behave like you.

Insha'Allah, I'm not going to stop you, because I know that you have no power at all to misguide people, and I know that the true righteous people will not follow you.

I think that we will reap what we sow.

which is the problem

Problem for?

I don't have any "disease in my heart" either like someone else claimed..

How do you know?

These are "verses" to frighten

I know that there are verses to frighten.

and prevent people from using their God-given reason,

I think the Qur'an challenges the readers to think and ponder.

they were meant to terrorize you...

Probably.

I tend to think that humans need to be threatened by their Creator. As a human, I agree that my negative part should be minimized or even shut down.

I'm much happier now, using my reason and conscience makes me feel happier. Instead of fearing eternal Hellfire.

I think your posts don't show true happiness.

Peace.

JavaLatte

If you are true Muslims and not hypocrites then do not reject the Signs of your Lord and do not seek to corrupt the Message with false progressive ideals. Only serve and worship ALLAH being sincere to Him in the deen. Do not attempt to serve two Masters. Your only Protector is Allah, therefore uphold the truth and support those who relay to you the Messages of Allah in Truth. I ask no payment from any of you. I have none to benefit from these discourses except the reward from Allah in the Hereafter. Hearken to my voice O believers!

Brother, don't worry about it.

I am quite sure that the believers (I speak about the true believers) will not reject the signs or their Rabb.

But the question is? Is there any believer in this forum?

If I use the Qur'an as source/standard to recognize the muslims and the believers on this forum, then my thought currently, I still don't know if there are believers in FM, and about muslims, hmm, I suppose there are some muslims here, I hope so. Some or few? I cannot sure about it, but, there are few people here who I consider as muslims by seeing how they surrender to their Rabb and/or by seeing how they support their Rabb and/or how they behave toward the Qur'an.

I think there's one important basic key to recognize a muslim He/she behaves humble toward the message/lesson which come from their Rabb.

As for myself, I cannot say that I am a believer, because I think I am far below the believers described in the Qur,'an - but I hope I am a muslim, I hope at least I can be counted as muslim. If someday I return to my Creator, I hope He will accept me and forgive me.

Salam.

mmkhan

Peace,

There are only two ways to believe in alQuraan and all of its aayaat.

Believe what you understand clearly with the help of Allah.
Blindly believe on what you don't understand. Never ever deny any aayat that you don't understand and if you don't have any clue about it.

That is because there are many aayaat that are allegorical to some but clear to others - 37.
And you have to believe them even if you don't understand it's meaning yet. It means you are not upgraded to understand it. Give it some time and try to be honest to Allah and to yourself.

Denying what you don't understand is a common practice of people earlier to you - 1039. How and why is it difficult to believe in those aayaat when Allah has already shown you many others aayaat so clearly that you cannot deny! And those aayaat are part of the same book.
Believing in a part of book and denying the other is surely not a good idea.

Please take a look at the aayaat quoted by clicking on the numbers given.

JavaLatte

Peace,

There are only two ways to believe in alQuraan and all of its aayaat.

Believe what you understand clearly with the help of Allah.
Blindly believe on what you don't understand. Never ever deny any aayat that you don't understand and if you don't have any clue about it.

That is because there are many aayaat that are allegorical to some but clear to others - 37.
And you have to believe them even if you don't understand it's meaning yet. It means you are not upgraded to understand it. Give it some time and try to be honest to Allah and to yourself.

Denying what you don't understand is a common practice of people earlier to you - 1039. How and why is it difficult to believe in those aayaat when Allah has already shown you many others aayaat so clearly that you cannot deny! And those aayaat are part of the same book.
Believing in a part of book and denying the other is surely not a good idea.

Please take a look at the aayaat quoted by clicking on the numbers given.

I think this is a positive input.

Bold Good advice, brother Khan.

And I want to add my personal thought If we truly accept the Qur'an, then do not deny it in any way. Just accept it without any rejection, because I think it is part of surrendering to Allah.

Believe what you understand clearly with the help of Allah.
Blindly believe on what you don't understand. Never ever deny any aayat that you don't understand and if you don't have any clue about it.

Agree.

How and why is it difficult to believe in those aayaat when Allah has already shown you many others aayaat so clearly that you cannot deny! And those aayaat are part of the same book.
Believing in a part of book and denying the other is surely not a good idea.

Indeed.

mmkhan

Peace,

Thanks Java and welcome back handshake

JavaLatte

Peace,

Thanks Java and welcome back handshake

Thank you, brother Khan.

You have a sweet daughter! D

Peace.

mmkhan

Thank you, brother Khan.

You have a sweet daughter! D

Peace.

Peace,

Thanks.
She is one year old now )

spodacus

Salam, yes i agree you must use the whole Message to have a full understanding of a particular subject. I don't think anyone is attacking your understanding of the ayaat itself. It might be that you are giving off a tone of my way or the highway attitude. That is not the right way to offer an understanding of an ayaat.

I myself actually believe that the ayaat is referring to physical entity and possibly comets etc. being used to repel them. However, as a muslim, I am also open to listening to others in a respectful way. Jinns/devils/Shaitan are very complicated subject matter you should not assume you know 100%.

I understand your argument perfectly, but there are too many Signs/Ayaats that depict this scenario in other words which cannot be argued about as being allegorical.

Brothers I do not mean to sound condescending, but are you familiar with the Quran at all?

Or did you read the Quran once and expect to grasp its Message?

I converted approximately 3 years ago and I have not stopped Reading it since. I have read the entire Quran in many translations from traditionalists, to progressives, free-minds, word for word literal translations and corpus.quran.com. From cover to cover!
Once I began from 1 to 114 then from 114 all the way back. Everytime I commence the Book, I grasp concepts more clearly or understand things I priorly did not. The Quran is not something you read once and then discuss upon it!
It is the vital component of Salat. Uphold the Scripture my people!
You think my interpretation is regressive only because you are fundamentally unfamiliar with all the other Ayaats that convey this concept.
This is irrefutable stand with me not against me brothers

HP_TECH

But the question is? Is there any believer in this forum?

If I use the Qur'an as source/standard to recognize the muslims and the believers on this forum, then my thought currently, I still don't know if there are believers in FM, and about muslims, hmm, I suppose there are some muslims here, I hope so. Some or few? I cannot sure about it, but, there are few people here who I consider as muslims by seeing how they surrender to their Rabb and/or by seeing how they support their Rabb and/or how they behave toward the Qur'an.

I think there's one important basic key to recognize a muslim He/she behaves humble toward the message/lesson which come from their Rabb.

I concur

As for myself, I cannot say that I am a believer, because I think I am far below the believers described in the Qur,'an - but I hope I am a muslim, I hope at least I can be counted as muslim. If someday I return to my Creator, I hope He will accept me and forgive me.

Don't sell yourself short sister

82-4

82 Innama almu/minoona allatheena itha thukira Allahu wajilat quloobuhum wa-itha tuliyat AAalayhim ayatuhu zadat-hum eemanan waAAala rabbihim yatawakkaloona
83 Allatheena yuqeemoona alssalata wamimma razaqnahum yunfiqoona
84 Ola-ika humu almu/minoona haqqan lahum darajatun AAinda rabbihim wamaghfiratun warizqun kareemun

82 Only the believers (are) those who when Allah is mentioned feel fear their hearts, and when are recited to them His Verses, they increase them (in) faith, and upon their Lord they put their trust.
83 Those who establish the prayer and out of what We have provided them they spend.
84 Those - they are the believers (in) truth. For them (are) ranks with their Lord and forgiveness and a provision noble.

reel

Peace,

I was just wondering how many of our members here believe that Allah is stoning the devils with stars to prevent them from stealing secret information from the angels?

"And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made them what is thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze."

"Indeed, We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment of stars. And as protection against every rebellious devil. they may not listen to the exalted assembly and are pelted from every side, Repelled; and for them is a constant punishment."

The answer to these verses can be found in other religions.

Some claims

In theosophy and anthroposophy, the Akashic records are a compendium of thoughts, events, and emotions believed by theosophists to be encoded in a non-physical plane of existence known as the astral plane. https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_records

The word, Akasha, is derived from two ancient Tibetan or northern Indian words. ?Aka? means space, storage place, or repository, and ?Sa? means sky, hidden, or secret. A simple translation of ?Akasha? is ?an unseen space or storage place.? The Akashic Records are, then, a hidden library of records imprinted on the subtle space of the Akasha. The Akashic Records are believed to have existed since the beginning of the time-space continuum of planet Earth.

Who has access to the Akashic Records?

Just as we have various kinds of physical libraries, such as law libraries and medical libraries, there are various ethereal libraries in the Akashic Records. Every person, animal, group, organization, event, and location on Earth has a unique Akashic Record. By divine birthright, we have the ability to access our own personal Akashic Records, as well as the Records of any group of which we are a part.

Every being on the planet can access the areas of the Akashic Records of which their soul plays a part. Alternately, no one can access our personal Akashic Records without our express permission. The Akashic Records are protected by spiritual beings who are referred to as the Guides, the Keepers, or the Guardians of the Akashic Records. These Spirit Keepers help us access our Akashic Records, and they hold strong energetic protection for the information contained therein.http//spiritlibrary.com/spiritual-entities/akashic-records

Recluse

I don't trust you.

Your reaction is emotional and childish because that is what blind belief and acceptance (of anything) make people react. You have an aversion to truth because you have been indoctrinated from childhood not to question anything in the Qur'an. Even if you saw obvious mistakes and falsehood in the Qur'an, and there are literally hundreds (I'm currently studying them), you would still cling to all that falsehood. Because you think you would be tortured for all eternity, if you didn't accept all that rubbish. And you equate that book with God, God's knowledge and God's might. That's how I used to think and feel, I'm sure many others feel the same. I fully understand your mental pain and intolerance to any criticism of the Qur'an. I used to be exactly like you, I was Always angry and intolerant when it came to "defending" the Qur'an... my defence was not with knowledge but with blind faith and anger.

Recluse

I'm currently studying the mythological and historical sources of the Qur'an, it's fascinating. Things like 7 heavens / skies, the flood myth and many other things mentioned in the Qur'an can be directly traced back to Sumerian theology and culture. Sumerian culture obviously has deeply influenced the Semitic religions of the Middle East, including Islam The similarities are simply too numerous to be coincidence. Many of the claims in the Qur'an about 7 skies, the order of creation and many other things are false. All those so-called scientific miracles in the Qur'an are also easily debunked by basic scienctific facts.

imrankhawaja

I'm currently studying the mythological and historical sources of the Qur'an, it's fascinating. Things like 7 heavens / skies, the flood myth and many other things mentioned in the Qur'an can be directly traced back to Sumerian theology and culture. Sumerian culture obviously has deeply influenced the Semitic religions of the Middle East, including Islam The similarities are simply too numerous to be coincidence. Many of the claims in the Qur'an about 7 skies, the order of creation and many other things are false. All those so-called scientific miracles in the Qur'an are also easily debunked by basic scienctific facts.

our telescopes are not still powerful enough to cross the boundries of lower heaven. science is a tool not a fact always , science takes uturn lot of times. even if a theory will establish saying there is no more heaven apart from this . later generation will discover another heaven whats about the first understanding.

can you or science is so sure whats after billions of light years. can they really know where is the location of last galaxy of this observeable universe.? i think there are lot of things they still dnt have answers,

heavens and earth are signs of God and that usually amazed us. fosuc on the creation. and then focus on creator , creation amazed us but creator we always investigate is it fair? instead of glorifying God we ask questions,

infact when we dnt have any understanding in our limited mind we start pointing out drawbacks , silly drawbacks which in any sense we cannot prove, for me i dnt think so anybody will be able to explore the boundires of lower heaven, as we know its expanding with great speed. carry on guys lets see can you make something that will travel with the speed of light .
even if you made that thing, you will not be able to cross the first heaven . even if you double /triple the speed of light . some galaxies are million light years away. can you provide a fuel that will last billion light years. we are veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy small infront of our rab.

the creation of heavens and earth is more difficult than creating human being.but most of the people dnt pay attention apart from pointing out mistakes actually not mistakes the unappraocable debates regarding heavens and earth.

Jafar

Cosmology in the mind of medieval middle eastern folks..

http//wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/files/2012/11/Ancient-Hebrew-view-of-universe.png

Stars are attached to the "nearest heaven"..
And God(s) are living above the heaven..

Between the nearest heaven and the "God's house" heaven.. there's a pathway or gate which the Devil often used to "sneak out" to the higher heaven and overhear the conversation among God and angels living there..

And of course the earth is flat...

Recluse

Cosmology in the mind of medieval middle eastern folks..

http//wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/files/2012/11/Ancient-Hebrew-view-of-universe.png

Stars are attached to the "nearest heaven"..
And God(s) are living above the heaven..

Between the nearest heaven and the "God's house" heaven.. there's a pathway or gate which the Devil often used to "sneak out" to the higher heaven and overhear the conversation among God and angels living there..

And of course the earth is flat...

Thanks, I saved it. This is exactly what I have recently read about ancient myths about the universe, cosmology and the order of creation. Almost the exact same mythological stories about creation and the universe are repeated in the Qur'an. And after giving all these scientifically incorrect mythological stories, it asks; "then will you not believe? " LOL.

good_logic

Peace Recluse.

You say,quote

Even if you saw obvious mistakes and falsehood in the Qur'an, and there are literally hundreds (I'm currently studying them), you would still cling to all that falsehood.

Please make your findings public so we can see what you are claiming to be mistakes and falsehood?

Brother, I am not angry,nor am I being defensive or anything negative. I am actually so positive that ,like many others before you,you will fail to find anything false or contradictory in the Qoran.

The Author of the Qoran is challenging every human to find a false statement in Qoran.
How clever are humans? Who gave them their cleverness? What if the one who gave cleverness will take it away?
Let us see how clever you are in finding mistakes and falsehood in Qoran?

Best of luck to you brother.
For your information, I tried for years, I am now amazed and beaten. I submit to the Lord of the universe!
I suppose it is one of two things
Either
1624
When they are asked, "What do you think of these revelations from your Lord," they say, "Tales from the past."

Or
1630
As for "Lilldin Ittakao", when they are asked, "What do you think of these revelations from your Lord," they say, "Good." For those who lead a righteous life, happiness, and the abode of the Hereafter is even better. What a blissful abode for the righteous.

Praise be to GOD, Lord of the universe( The earth, the solar system, the milkyway and all the billions of galaxies...).
GOD bless you.
Peace.