Allah stoning devils with stars?

spodacus

Salam, yes i agree you must use the whole Message to have a full understanding of a particular subject. I don't think anyone is attacking your understanding of the ayaat itself. It might be that you are giving off a tone of my way or the highway attitude. That is not the right way to offer an understanding of an ayaat.

I myself actually believe that the ayaat is referring to physical entity and possibly comets etc. being used to repel them. However, as a muslim, I am also open to listening to others in a respectful way. Jinns/devils/Shaitan are very complicated subject matter you should not assume you know 100%.

I understand your argument perfectly, but there are too many Signs/Ayaats that depict this scenario in other words which cannot be argued about as being allegorical.

Brothers I do not mean to sound condescending, but are you familiar with the Quran at all?

Or did you read the Quran once and expect to grasp its Message?

I converted approximately 3 years ago and I have not stopped Reading it since. I have read the entire Quran in many translations from traditionalists, to progressives, free-minds, word for word literal translations and corpus.quran.com. From cover to cover!
Once I began from 1 to 114 then from 114 all the way back. Everytime I commence the Book, I grasp concepts more clearly or understand things I priorly did not. The Quran is not something you read once and then discuss upon it!
It is the vital component of Salat. Uphold the Scripture my people!
You think my interpretation is regressive only because you are fundamentally unfamiliar with all the other Ayaats that convey this concept.
This is irrefutable stand with me not against me brothers

HP_TECH

But the question is? Is there any believer in this forum?

If I use the Qur'an as source/standard to recognize the muslims and the believers on this forum, then my thought currently, I still don't know if there are believers in FM, and about muslims, hmm, I suppose there are some muslims here, I hope so. Some or few? I cannot sure about it, but, there are few people here who I consider as muslims by seeing how they surrender to their Rabb and/or by seeing how they support their Rabb and/or how they behave toward the Qur'an.

I think there's one important basic key to recognize a muslim He/she behaves humble toward the message/lesson which come from their Rabb.

I concur

As for myself, I cannot say that I am a believer, because I think I am far below the believers described in the Qur,'an - but I hope I am a muslim, I hope at least I can be counted as muslim. If someday I return to my Creator, I hope He will accept me and forgive me.

Don't sell yourself short sister

82-4

82 Innama almu/minoona allatheena itha thukira Allahu wajilat quloobuhum wa-itha tuliyat AAalayhim ayatuhu zadat-hum eemanan waAAala rabbihim yatawakkaloona
83 Allatheena yuqeemoona alssalata wamimma razaqnahum yunfiqoona
84 Ola-ika humu almu/minoona haqqan lahum darajatun AAinda rabbihim wamaghfiratun warizqun kareemun

82 Only the believers (are) those who when Allah is mentioned feel fear their hearts, and when are recited to them His Verses, they increase them (in) faith, and upon their Lord they put their trust.
83 Those who establish the prayer and out of what We have provided them they spend.
84 Those - they are the believers (in) truth. For them (are) ranks with their Lord and forgiveness and a provision noble.

reel

Peace,

I was just wondering how many of our members here believe that Allah is stoning the devils with stars to prevent them from stealing secret information from the angels?

"And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made them what is thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze."

"Indeed, We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment of stars. And as protection against every rebellious devil. they may not listen to the exalted assembly and are pelted from every side, Repelled; and for them is a constant punishment."

The answer to these verses can be found in other religions.

Some claims

In theosophy and anthroposophy, the Akashic records are a compendium of thoughts, events, and emotions believed by theosophists to be encoded in a non-physical plane of existence known as the astral plane. https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_records

The word, Akasha, is derived from two ancient Tibetan or northern Indian words. ?Aka? means space, storage place, or repository, and ?Sa? means sky, hidden, or secret. A simple translation of ?Akasha? is ?an unseen space or storage place.? The Akashic Records are, then, a hidden library of records imprinted on the subtle space of the Akasha. The Akashic Records are believed to have existed since the beginning of the time-space continuum of planet Earth.

Who has access to the Akashic Records?

Just as we have various kinds of physical libraries, such as law libraries and medical libraries, there are various ethereal libraries in the Akashic Records. Every person, animal, group, organization, event, and location on Earth has a unique Akashic Record. By divine birthright, we have the ability to access our own personal Akashic Records, as well as the Records of any group of which we are a part.

Every being on the planet can access the areas of the Akashic Records of which their soul plays a part. Alternately, no one can access our personal Akashic Records without our express permission. The Akashic Records are protected by spiritual beings who are referred to as the Guides, the Keepers, or the Guardians of the Akashic Records. These Spirit Keepers help us access our Akashic Records, and they hold strong energetic protection for the information contained therein.http//spiritlibrary.com/spiritual-entities/akashic-records

Recluse

I don't trust you.

Your reaction is emotional and childish because that is what blind belief and acceptance (of anything) make people react. You have an aversion to truth because you have been indoctrinated from childhood not to question anything in the Qur'an. Even if you saw obvious mistakes and falsehood in the Qur'an, and there are literally hundreds (I'm currently studying them), you would still cling to all that falsehood. Because you think you would be tortured for all eternity, if you didn't accept all that rubbish. And you equate that book with God, God's knowledge and God's might. That's how I used to think and feel, I'm sure many others feel the same. I fully understand your mental pain and intolerance to any criticism of the Qur'an. I used to be exactly like you, I was Always angry and intolerant when it came to "defending" the Qur'an... my defence was not with knowledge but with blind faith and anger.

Recluse

I'm currently studying the mythological and historical sources of the Qur'an, it's fascinating. Things like 7 heavens / skies, the flood myth and many other things mentioned in the Qur'an can be directly traced back to Sumerian theology and culture. Sumerian culture obviously has deeply influenced the Semitic religions of the Middle East, including Islam The similarities are simply too numerous to be coincidence. Many of the claims in the Qur'an about 7 skies, the order of creation and many other things are false. All those so-called scientific miracles in the Qur'an are also easily debunked by basic scienctific facts.

imrankhawaja

I'm currently studying the mythological and historical sources of the Qur'an, it's fascinating. Things like 7 heavens / skies, the flood myth and many other things mentioned in the Qur'an can be directly traced back to Sumerian theology and culture. Sumerian culture obviously has deeply influenced the Semitic religions of the Middle East, including Islam The similarities are simply too numerous to be coincidence. Many of the claims in the Qur'an about 7 skies, the order of creation and many other things are false. All those so-called scientific miracles in the Qur'an are also easily debunked by basic scienctific facts.

our telescopes are not still powerful enough to cross the boundries of lower heaven. science is a tool not a fact always , science takes uturn lot of times. even if a theory will establish saying there is no more heaven apart from this . later generation will discover another heaven whats about the first understanding.

can you or science is so sure whats after billions of light years. can they really know where is the location of last galaxy of this observeable universe.? i think there are lot of things they still dnt have answers,

heavens and earth are signs of God and that usually amazed us. fosuc on the creation. and then focus on creator , creation amazed us but creator we always investigate is it fair? instead of glorifying God we ask questions,

infact when we dnt have any understanding in our limited mind we start pointing out drawbacks , silly drawbacks which in any sense we cannot prove, for me i dnt think so anybody will be able to explore the boundires of lower heaven, as we know its expanding with great speed. carry on guys lets see can you make something that will travel with the speed of light .
even if you made that thing, you will not be able to cross the first heaven . even if you double /triple the speed of light . some galaxies are million light years away. can you provide a fuel that will last billion light years. we are veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy small infront of our rab.

the creation of heavens and earth is more difficult than creating human being.but most of the people dnt pay attention apart from pointing out mistakes actually not mistakes the unappraocable debates regarding heavens and earth.

Jafar

Cosmology in the mind of medieval middle eastern folks..

http//wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/files/2012/11/Ancient-Hebrew-view-of-universe.png

Stars are attached to the "nearest heaven"..
And God(s) are living above the heaven..

Between the nearest heaven and the "God's house" heaven.. there's a pathway or gate which the Devil often used to "sneak out" to the higher heaven and overhear the conversation among God and angels living there..

And of course the earth is flat...

Recluse

Cosmology in the mind of medieval middle eastern folks..

http//wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/files/2012/11/Ancient-Hebrew-view-of-universe.png

Stars are attached to the "nearest heaven"..
And God(s) are living above the heaven..

Between the nearest heaven and the "God's house" heaven.. there's a pathway or gate which the Devil often used to "sneak out" to the higher heaven and overhear the conversation among God and angels living there..

And of course the earth is flat...

Thanks, I saved it. This is exactly what I have recently read about ancient myths about the universe, cosmology and the order of creation. Almost the exact same mythological stories about creation and the universe are repeated in the Qur'an. And after giving all these scientifically incorrect mythological stories, it asks; "then will you not believe? " LOL.

good_logic

Peace Recluse.

You say,quote

Even if you saw obvious mistakes and falsehood in the Qur'an, and there are literally hundreds (I'm currently studying them), you would still cling to all that falsehood.

Please make your findings public so we can see what you are claiming to be mistakes and falsehood?

Brother, I am not angry,nor am I being defensive or anything negative. I am actually so positive that ,like many others before you,you will fail to find anything false or contradictory in the Qoran.

The Author of the Qoran is challenging every human to find a false statement in Qoran.
How clever are humans? Who gave them their cleverness? What if the one who gave cleverness will take it away?
Let us see how clever you are in finding mistakes and falsehood in Qoran?

Best of luck to you brother.
For your information, I tried for years, I am now amazed and beaten. I submit to the Lord of the universe!
I suppose it is one of two things
Either
1624
When they are asked, "What do you think of these revelations from your Lord," they say, "Tales from the past."

Or
1630
As for "Lilldin Ittakao", when they are asked, "What do you think of these revelations from your Lord," they say, "Good." For those who lead a righteous life, happiness, and the abode of the Hereafter is even better. What a blissful abode for the righteous.

Praise be to GOD, Lord of the universe( The earth, the solar system, the milkyway and all the billions of galaxies...).
GOD bless you.
Peace.

HP_TECH

I'm currently studying the mythological and historical sources of the Qur'an, it's fascinating. Things like 7 heavens / skies, the flood myth and many other things mentioned in the Qur'an can be directly traced back to Sumerian theology and culture. Sumerian culture obviously has deeply influenced the Semitic religions of the Middle East, including Islam The similarities are simply too numerous to be coincidence. Many of the claims in the Qur'an about 7 skies, the order of creation and many other things are false. All those so-called scientific miracles in the Qur'an are also easily debunked by basic scienctific facts.

You are not only arrogantly self-deluded but your claims hold no water here. You are making claims for which you have no proof, evidence. You don't reason and that's why you have been led astray like many others. Bring all your argument at once, your boastful demeanor will be abased by the Truth

imrankhawaja

The Author of the Qoran is challenging every human to find a false statement in Qoran.

i think relcuse will find it and he will present this statement infront of public and people will give him noble prize that after a long wait of 1432 years somebody beat quran and fulfiill the challange. but dreams are just dreams confused

o assembly of humans and jinn produce a book like this , you will not successful, even if you assist eachother,

pick a book 100 years old and look how many changings occured according to new findings,

only one prediction is enough to ponder , a unique type of prediction/prophesy
3000 years ago something happend and something prophesied in the book , regarding that event , moreover this prediction get achived after 1200 years . what an amzing timing , pharoh gone ages before (quran claim something) after 12oo years of claim prophesy fulfill , is it not enough , i feel buzing .

its telling us God knows and control over past present and future.

Recluse

You are not only arrogantly self-deluded but your claims hold no water here. You are making claims for which you have no proof, evidence. You don't reason and that's why you have been led astray like many others. Bring all your argument at once, your boastful demeanor will be abased by the Truth

Why don't you do your own research and check for yourself, if the Qur'anic /Semitic /Abrahamic understanding of the universe and creation is nearly identical to ancient Sumerian mythology or isn't. Jafar obviously already knows, look at his earlier post and compare that with the stories in the Qur'an, they match perfectly. And look at Sumerian history and culture, you will be surprised.

http//wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/files/2012/11/Ancient-Hebrew-view-of-universe.png

Man_of_Faith

Well, the clerics who abused Quran to interpret it according to themselves obviously believed that the world looked like according to that illustration by Jafar.

But the realm of God is not of this world at all, it is not connected to it like this. You cannot travel to God in this world, even if you reach the stars. You must find God within you. All this world is just a silly contradiction designed intentionally to corrupt its inhabitants. So make sure you survive to surpass this world and do it by cutting off from what attaches you to it (hint = the instinct).

Be well
Amenuel

HP_TECH

Why don't you do your own research and check for yourself, if the Qur'anic /Semitic /Abrahamic understanding of the universe and creation is nearly identical to ancient Sumerian mythology or isn't. Jafar obviously already knows, look at his earlier post and compare that with the stories in the Qur'an, they match perfectly. And look at Sumerian history and culture, you will be surprised.

http//wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/files/2012/11/Ancient-Hebrew-view-of-universe.png

Again, bring your argument all at once. Ancient Sumerians? A reference from Jafar? Is this your best argument?

Before I begin, KNOW that true believers are intelligent, conscientious in study and of superior knowledge. True faith is not blind faith, acknowledgement is a cause of reason and logical critical thinking. Allah brings the understanding. Assuming you are truthful your heart was tested and not worthy of receiving understanding.
Those of your kind (hypocrites) lack proper reasoning skills, you are undeveloped and you are so because of your neglect, doubt or unwillingness to abide to the Truth.
If you think sister Java was being "emotional" because she felt personally offended by your words you are gravely mistaken.
No we simply despise those who argue about Allah without any knowledge (as Quran describes) and we can smell the lack thereof all over you...
It is similar to a child trying to join an adult conversation except the only arguments you bring are "immature" "childish" and obviously naiive and void of logic to us.
Allah is the protector of the believers and He is the Helper of the righteous in this life and the Hereafter.

In the Name of Allah The Most Gracious The Most Merciful,

The argument you present is just as flawed and ridiculous as the Zeitgeist argument. Finding high degree of similarity between ancient civilizations and accounts related within Scripture, in this case the Quran, is indicative of the validity of the Scripture.
It is absolutely ridiculous that these findings should rather cause one to doubt the validity of the Scripture.

Your bundle of knowledge is very minute.
It is not only Abrahamic and Sumerian civilizations that have this understanding of the universe and creation but it is almost every ancient civilization across the world and across time, one example are the ancient Tibetan and Indians as Reel indicated. Most ancient civilizations acknowledged geocentrism. Therefore this understanding cannot be attributed solely to one region nor one civilization nor a specific religion, but it is a worldwide phenomenon.
It would seem it is rather you who needs to look up history in a broader and more intuitive fashion. Research Zetetic Astronomy for instance.

You seem to be deluded into thinking that the Quran is the only Book of Guidance and Knowledge given to the ancients.
The Quran very well explicates that every nation had a warner.
It is therefore not surprising to the attentive/perceptive/conscientious Quran student that we therefore find remnants of the True Knowledge in most ancient civilizations across the world.

What is your evidence for holding the creation paradigm being depicted in the Quran and the similar remnants of knowledge across ancient civilization as false?

There is no tangible evidence for heliocentrism, in fact many renown scientists in the late 1800s to early 1900s worked to disprove the web of lies promoted by the occultist pseudoscientific dogma for over 5 centuries. Look up the history of all the leading "scientific" authorities concerning astronomy all occultists. I am talking from Copernicus, to Isaac Newton, they claim they were simply alchemists, could not be further from the truth they delved in the occult and were fascinated by it and practiced it as Nostradamus practiced it.

1)Michelson and Morley proves earth motionless

2)Michelson and Gale detected ether passing over the surface of the motionless earth

3)Airy's failure demonstrated it is the Stars moving relative to a stationary earth and not the fast orbiting earth moving relative to the comparatively stationary stars

The results of these experiments were explained away using a fundamental feature of relativity, more specifically the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light. The principle posits that light travels away from the source at the same velocity relative to the source, whether the source is moving away from the source or towards it.

F)Einstein theory of relativity

4)Sagnac Effect vindicates above three experiments
In 1913 French scientist Sagnac Georges conducted a simple experiment to test the principle of the constancy of the speed of light

Sagnac's apparatus was comprised of a turn table, light emitter, splitter, mirrors and a photographic plate. A beam of light is sent through the splitter splitting the light into two beams which then are passed in opposite directions around the turn table between mirrors.

Heavyweights against Albert Einstein's special relativity and gravity
Nicholas Tesla
Ernst Mach
Albert A. Michelson
Georges Sagnac
(George Cantor
Herbert Ives)
Robert A Millican

If you are a reasoning developed human being and not an undeveloped plant that will be trashed as firewood you will if Allah so Wills acknowledge the amount of contradiction, distortion, manipulation that is within the current widely accepted paradigm.
This current paradigm is design to deceive man about the life of the world and Allah.
How many individuals do you know that say they do not believe in God but they believe in science, as if it is a religion. It is in fact their religion. A religion which ascribes Allah's attributes to "matter" (which is itself an invented term there is no "matter" only assimilation of atoms through various frequencies), pressure and gas. These matter, particles and gas would have had to be infinite, eternal and conscious. That is why there is no such thing as an atheist. Atheist is a fancy word for pagan. It is the most absurd belief.
From every angle this paradigm seeks to deceive the individual into thinking that the universe origin is caused solely by randomness and chance and hence it is Godless. The reducing of the earth from the center of the universe to a spinning ball revolving around the venerated sun further detracts from the acknowledgment of the precise plan, placement and purpose of Allah for the inhabitants of this earth.
Then add the component of evolution and how supposedly living organisms independently evolved from non living material to low complexity to finally high complexity which seems like a design only by "chance".
This current paradigm is a paradigm orchestrated by the deceiver and to be a proponent of it of any kind is to fall in the error.

The universe as we experience it and observe it is EXACTLY how Allah describes it in the Quran and congruent with Abrahamic religions' understanding, and "similar" to some of the concepts proposed in ancient paradigms.

To all the Muslimina in this forum who have not yet received understanding KNOW that this shaytan(Recluse) is only a test for you. So stand firm and do not falter if Allah alone you serve.
The only thing you need say in response to this shaytan is 37 "Amanna bihi kullun min 'indi Rabbina" "We believe in it. All is from our Lord"

Recluse

Nothing but empty assumptions about me, my knowledge, ridiculous personal insults and most importantly; anti-scientific drivel. Is that the best you can do?

You are probably one of those who would also shamelessly deny that the Qur'an openly permits;

Child marriage; Pedophilia
Slaves and sex slaves
Beating of your wife
Polygamy
Women having to obey their husbands

And on and on.....

Since you have chosen to close your eyes to the truth, there is nothing to debate with someone as ignorant and arrogant as you.

Bender

I have indicated exactly that here. How can you deny the evidence shown by the following or did you just give a blind eye to them?? ???

Root concordance it is used in similar ways in many other ayaats
Project Root List (it has ties with Wakas and this website) the root meanings provided are suggestive of "projectiles" i.e. objects or stones being thrown/cast
Free-minds Translation
Corpus.Quran.com Translation
Lane's Lexicon

How can you deny what I just posted?

Great tools, but they were not included in the book.

huruf

Nothing but empty assumptions about me, my knowledge, ridiculous personal insults and most importantly; anti-scientific drivel. Is that the best you can do?

You are probably one of those who would also shamelessly deny that the Qur'an openly permits;

Child marriage; Pedophilia
Slaves and sex slaves
Beating of your wife
Polygamy
Women having to obey their husbands

And on and on.....

Since you have chosen to close your eyes to the truth, there is nothing to debate with someone as ignorant and arrogant as you.

What you have written thre are indeed the word of ignorance. You do not have the faintet idea of Arabicnor of what the Qur'n really says. But that i not the problem, the problem i that in ite of your abymal ignornce you pretend to set yourelf as an authority and affirm things categorically without giving any argument whatoever of having undertood the word and the sentence which make up the Qur'an. In fact you are one of those who blame Qur'an but refuse to take the Qur'n as anything but what the self apointed bito authorities of the "muslim world". You shamelessly give authority to those impostors and pretend that ommon muslim like me and many millions should adhere to the fantaies of the self aointed authorities on islam, not Qur'an even but just Islam.

If you did not show yourself so arrogantI would feel pity or you. As it is It is just ruefully amusing, Like proverbial ant climbing upthe elephat leg with raping intent.

Salaam

Bender

You are probably one of those who would also shamelessly deny that the Qur'an openly permits;

Child marriage; Pedophilia
Slaves and sex slaves
Beating of your wife
Polygamy
Women having to obey their husbands

And on and on.....

Since you have chosen to close your eyes to the truth, there is nothing to debate with someone as ignorant and arrogant as you.

And you are still shamelessly spreading your nonsense as truths.

btw still waiting for you to give me the arabic word used in the quran for slaves. It's just 1 word and since you are so knowledgeable and in warmode against the quran I find it a little bit strange that you still haven't.
And if it is not to much asked then please inform me also what word is used in the quran for "Child marriage", "Pedophilia", "sex slaves", "Beating", "your wife", "Polygamy", "Women", "husbands".
To make it clear I am not asking for your wisdom, I am asking simply for the arabic words used in the quran.
Thus like this
husbands = X
I can learn a lot from you if you are so kind to share your knowledge with me.

HP_TECH

Nothing but empty assumptions about me, my knowledge, ridiculous personal insults and most importantly; anti-scientific drivel. Is that the best you can do?

Cries about my supposed insults(which I nowhere have insulted him) then insults me

there is nothing to debate with someone as ignorant and arrogant as you.

Yeah very mature and classy. Again proving my claim of your immaturity. That is why you are on a God Alone forum arguing against Quran you are a litigious self-deluded boaster and you won't succeed.

You are probably one of those who would also shamelessly deny that the Qur'an openly permits;

Child marriage; Pedophilia
Slaves and sex slaves
Beating of your wife
Polygamy
Women having to obey their husbands

Ah! Indeed the self-deluded arrogant boaster having been abased has no argument against the Truth and seeks to change subject. Indeed Glory be to Allah Rabbi al alameen!
Yes go ahead and change subject if you will, know that there is no argument against the truth and you are the one crawling in the darkness (as Quran depicts) while the believers walk in the light on the path.

Yes we shamelessly deny all of that, and that goes to show again the weakness of your reasoning and arguments and this is no insult, it is the apparent truth as everyone is pointing out to you. Because you would have to be particularly uninformed or misinformed/deluded/uneducated to not be aware that all those claims are false and that this forum particularly debunks all those claims in hundreds of threads.
You want to call people ignorant but you are ignorant of the irrefutable arguments brought against those claims in this very forum on those very topics.

Since you have chosen to close your eyes to the truth, there is nothing to debate with someone as ignorant and arrogant as you.

You have not debated anything you brought out ridiculous claims and misanalysed evidence and you were nibbed in the bud.
Yes indeed YOU have NOTHING to debate here....
Bye-bye go on now yes

mmkhan

Nothing but empty assumptions about me, my knowledge, ridiculous personal insults and most importantly; anti-scientific drivel. Is that the best you can do?

You are probably one of those who would also shamelessly deny that the Qur'an openly permits;

Child marriage; Pedophilia
Slaves and sex slaves
Beating of your wife
Polygamy
Women having to obey their husbands

And on and on.....

Since you have chosen to close your eyes to the truth, there is nothing to debate with someone as ignorant and arrogant as you.

Hi Recluse,

I would love to see those aayaat. Please get back to me with the evidence from alQuraan about your claims.
Awaiting your reply bro. Thanks in advance.