Dreams, Lucidity, and Verses 6:60 and 39:42
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Peace all,
After coming across verses 660 and 3942 in other threads, I started thinking about how dreams, and lucid dreams in particular, relate to these verses.
For those of you who don't know, lucid dreaming is the process of one being aware and conscious of the fact that they are dreaming while they are in a dreaming state.
660 "And He is the One who seizes you during the night, and He knows what you have done during the day, then He sends you back again to complete an appointed term; then to Him is your return and He will inform you of what you used to do."
3942 "God seizes the souls at the time of their death; and for those that have not died, during their sleep. He then keeps those that have been overtaken by death, and He sends the others back until a predetermined time. In that are signs for a people who will think."
What does it mean for God to "seize" peoples' souls? Do you take this in a figurative or literal sense?
The phrase being used ("He sends you back again" sounds (to me at least) like God is sending us back to our waking life (in other words, consciousness). But since lucid dreaming always involves consciousness, that doesn't make sense. God wouldn't be sending us back to a state that some may already be in. It would have to be impossible for people to access that state because, well, He is God. But nevertheless, it is possible for people to become conscious while they are dreaming.
Or could that not be the right way of thinking about these verses? Could God "seizing" our souls mean that even during all our nights, He is taking us to a higher (or simply different) dimension, or plane of existence?
What do you all think?
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Animals also dream, at least some do. I think that what is involved in dreaming is the lack of will. What we dream and when and how is beyond our decision or choice. There is obviously some conscience since after we can remember and n dreams we know who we are, we know that we are ourselves.
Salaam
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state of sleep is strange thing in itself.
we see things sometimes very nice ,sometimes horrible, sometimes we see people who are alrready dead.
with me i note one thing, whenever i see some dream most of the time on the very next day i feel same , in reality,
example last week i saw one of my friend is talking with me, and we have some issues due to which we didnt se eachoohter from last 8 months , interestingly when i awake, infact i awake by a call of our common frd he is telling me get ready and come out, and when i come out i saw my friend there, and we talk eat and get back together,
and lot of things like that happen when i see dreams,
i think the state of sleep is something like mystery and have lot of theories and ideas , and it depend sometimes on your diet position of sleep, sometimes i dream what i have in my mind before sleep, i mean the last memory before unconsiosness.
and more interesting thing i want to share , there is a state between sleep and awake, when some body try to awake but feel dizzy , thats my fav stage, its sounds like we are in middle of somewhere , and i also have some expereinces of that stage usually when i m watching tv or movie or reading . or thinking about something, suddenly it happen ,
but what we can say, its amazing, we need sleep , another reason of sleep is God want to tell us about death and life state in a example way,
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Animals also dream, at least some do. I think that what is involved in dreaming is the lack of will. What we dream and when and how is beyond our decision or choice. There is obviously some conscience since after we can remember and n dreams we know who we are, we know that we are ourselves.
Salaam
That's not true. While the fast majority of our dreams involve a lack of will, when a person is lucid dreaming (and thus aware that they are dreaming), they have the ability to choose their own actions from that moment forward and manipulate their environment.
I've heard of lucid dreamers who were able to "go with the flow", so to speak, and follow their dream pattern as it was occurring before they became lucid, but from my own experience I have never been able to do that. When I've become lucid in the past, it feels like I've "waken up" without actually waking. All of a sudden I receive a burst of clarity. I can feel my body, and I feel the world around me, and it feels and appears so real. At the same time, I'm aware that my "real" body is still soundly sleeping in my bed. I feel a sense of extreme freedom, knowing that this world is entirely confined within my mind and thus has no bounds. I've been able to fly, pass through a glass window, summon objects at will, and change leaves on trees. I can do all that. In the morning, I wake up and I remember as if it was as real as an actual memory.
That's what I'm referring to.
I'll reply more later; I have to go now. peace
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I persoally do ot know of anybody who cn choose what to dream, and this is the first time that I hear of "lucid dreams" that you can choose, I mean you may dream that you choose but you do not actually choose, that choosing is also a dream that you do not choose. I do not mean that those "lucid dreams where you keep your own volition do not exist, but this is the first time I ear of any such a thing.
Of ocurse one can aso have strange experiences like having the impression or feeling that you do not know wher you are or who you are particularly whe you awake from sleep. But that is something else.
Salaam
Salaam
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Peace to both of you,
state of sleep is strange thing in itself.
we see things sometimes very nice ,sometimes horrible, sometimes we see people who are alrready dead.
with me i note one thing, whenever i see some dream most of the time on the very next day i feel same , in reality,
example last week i saw one of my friend is talking with me, and we have some issues due to which we didnt se eachoohter from last 8 months , interestingly when i awake, infact i awake by a call of our common frd he is telling me get ready and come out, and when i come out i saw my friend there, and we talk eat and get back together,
and lot of things like that happen when i see dreams,
Huh. I've never had that happen to me before.
i think the state of sleep is something like mystery and have lot of theories and ideas , and it depend sometimes on your diet position of sleep, sometimes i dream what i have in my mind before sleep, i mean the last memory before unconsiosness.
I think sleep, and dreams in particular, is a mystery but can also be known. Last I checked though, the sleep and dream field is something that isn't scientifically researched or tested that much, which is a shame.
Some dreams mean something - they tell us something about ourselves, rather.
Our fears, our hopes, whatever it may be.But dreams can also be a jumble of random thoughts, memories, stories, people, etc., that all come together (as your brain processes and stores the day's memories while you sleep) and attach themselves in some way to a past memory, something from 5 years ago or 3 or 10... That's why dreams can appear so jumbled and confusing when we're looking back on them when we're awake. Our brain makes connections that we do not see. Interestingly enough, every face you've seen in a dream is a face you've seen sometime in your life - walking down the street, a friend, a neighbor once, on TV, etc. The brain is unable to create a new face. But anyways. I've digressed.
and more interesting thing i want to share , there is a state between sleep and awake, when some body try to awake but feel dizzy , thats my fav stage, its sounds like we are in middle of somewhere , and i also have some expereinces of that stage usually when i m watching tv or movie or reading . or thinking about something, suddenly it happen ,
but what we can say, its amazing, we need sleep , another reason of sleep is God want to tell us about death and life state in a example way,
I've never experienced that, but I have experienced a "blackness." It happened once when I got disconnected from a dream, but I wasn't awake yet, and I had to visualize my surroundings again to get my "dream sight" back. I still had "dream sound" though, which was good because concentrating on those allowed me to get the visual piece back.
The "death and life state" could make sense for explaining these verses. Interestingly enough in a recent study of heart attack victims, up to 40% could glimpse something of going on. That's close to half but not all, so maybe God is saying that our sleeping, dreaming, and remembering or not remembering our dreams is like that. (source http//benhanson.areavoices.com/40-of-heart-attack-survivors-conscious-during-clinical-death/)
I persoally do ot know of anybody who cn choose what to dream, and this is the first time that I hear of "lucid dreams" that you can choose, I mean you may dream that you choose but you do not actually choose, that choosing is also a dream that you do not choose. I do not mean that those "lucid dreams where you keep your own volition do not exist, but this is the first time I ear of any such a thing.
You can research more about it online. Personally I was never a natural at lucid/conscious dreaming, but it was something I learned partially growing up. I had nightmares a lot as a kid, so I developed the ability to recognize whenever a dream was turning into a nightmare, and I would spin around in dream to wake myself up. It always worked.
It took training (1 month of trying different techniques and talking to people about it) to actually get myself to admit while in the dream that I was dreaming. It's something that I believe everyone can learn to do, with effort (no drugs or substance abuse or anything of that nature involved of course - it's an all-natural human process, and the only one I know of that connects both the conscious and subconscious world. )
I've heard of "masters" of lucid dreaming who were able to create entire landscapes and situations and call up people on a whim that they wanted to speak to. They can keep a dream stabilized as long as they wish. They're able to ask for their subconscious and have themselves presented in from of them, to ask whatever questions they want. They can also summon a "house of the subconscious" in front of them and walk through it to discover any lurking secrets about themselves that they haven't yet discovered. They're incredible. These people have incredible mental talent, and a part of me aspires to be like them. I was able to do a lot, but I was nowhere near at that level of skill.
Of ocurse one can aso have strange experiences like having the impression or feeling that you do not know wher you are or who you are particularly whe you awake from sleep. But that is something else.
Salaam
Salaam
I think we've all that had impression at least a few times during our lives. P Sleep paralysis is also quite scary to wake up from. Before I knew what it was, it terrified me (sleep paralysis is just as it sounds - when you wake up and you can't move your body at all - and some people even experience scary voices, sounds, and hallucinations). I've had to jolt my body out of sleep paralysis many times during severe nightmares - I start thrashing myself mentally until I can feel the physical connection back to my body and I'm able to move my body enough to wake myself up. I suppose you could say in those times I've been in "two places at once." Maybe this is what Allah is speaking about. P
Here's someone talking about their "astral" dream experiences, with possibly people crossing their own dream barriers, if anyone wants to take a look - http//www.erinpavlina.com/blog/2006/05/ask-erin-can-two-people-share-a-lucid-dream/
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Peace Comrox,
Wow, an example of Synchronicity! When I replied to you about 3942, I had no idea about this thread of yours!
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608596.msg390402#msg390402
I've heard of lucid dreamers who were able to "go with the flow", so to speak, and follow their dream pattern as it was occurring before they became lucid, but from my own experience I have never been able to do that. When I've become lucid in the past, it feels like I've "waken up" without actually waking. All of a sudden I receive a burst of clarity. I can feel my body, and I feel the world around me, and it feels and appears so real. At the same time, I'm aware that my "real" body is still soundly sleeping in my bed. I feel a sense of extreme freedom, knowing that this world is entirely confined within my mind and thus has no bounds. I've been able to fly, pass through a glass window, summon objects at will, and change leaves on trees. I can do all that. In the morning, I wake up and I remember as if it was as real as an actual memory.
Actually what you saw and "felt" was all real, in some other higher dimensional planet in this universe or another universe, either in past, present, or future.
There are 3 kinds of out of body experience, and in all of those you are having a real experience
-
"Normal" dreams Fuzzy, not that clear, no control over the dream, having some "super" powers.
-
Lucid dreams Crystal clear as if you are awake, may or may not have control over dream (depending on the level of your spiritual progress), have "super" powers like you described.
The reason is when you are having out of body experience (OOB) of any kind, your spirit body gets out of your physical body, while still attached to it (analogy is a flashlight, when you switch it on, light beam travels away from it while still being "attached" to it). When your spirit body gets out of the 3rd density physical body, it is a 6th density existence, the same existence as you have after death (your Higher Self - details in law of one). In 6th density existence you have a lot of advanced spiritual abilities naturally, like some of what you described. Now you know how the lifestyle of 6th density entities feels like!
In this state you have no veil of forgetfulness and if you want you can travel to any higher dimension in any universe and you can also travel freely in time just like you travel in space. So you can go back to one of your past lives, or travel to future lives etc. You can also interact with other spirit bodies of various densities, for example you can meet your friends who are also having the OOB, or your deceased relatives, or higher density entities (like jibreel for example), or spirit guides in the astral planes etc. There is no limit. The more spiritually advanced you are, the more you can do and "see". You can even go to the Akashic library where record of everything is stored (lawh mahfouz - 8522), and watch your own 3D holographic movie about your past, present or future life for example.
- Astral projection You can do all of the above at will, without going to sleep, and you have complete control. Lucid dreaming is one step below this, and there are "masters" of astral projection also and you can learn how to perform it from their teachings. It is like experiencing what you will see after death, before actually dying. You will see a silver "cord" attaching you to your physical body during the astral projection, which will tell you you are still alive. The only difference from death is that after death you won't see the silver cord.
Please watch all the videos in my posts I referenced above for more details.
It is one of the best ways to discover the truth for yourself based on 4153. Please see my following thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607171.0
Peace
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Peace Comrox,
I would like to introduce you to Teal Swan, a living sufi/mystic, spiritually advanced being (also known as the "giggling guide", whose positive messages are in accordance with the law of one and a lot of them have resonated with me. She was born with a lot of advanced spiritual abilities and when I read her biography it brought tears to my eyes. She claims to be a higher dimensional being who has incarnated many times on Earth for the purpose of service to others and service to the Source.
Following is what she has to say about dreams and nightmares
https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=sMewKknfVJM
https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=0FbKnwDRKFQ
Teal on out of body experiences
https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=lVUy8u1DfKA
https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=wao7LqgSDzI
Teal on past lives and her interesting mind blowing perspective of karma wow
https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQdRTdA8FQU
https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=Un_ecCzKuxk
https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=tS2O-YHfj6I
Peace
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When dream is meant it is mentioned. Dreams are only during REM sleep. Sleep stops conscious, volitional acts. Man is responsible for volitional acts. Acts done by body during sleep are not subject to scrutiny and accountability, including murder.
some people have habit to walk in sleep... lol
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Peace truthseeker11,
Peace Comrox,
Wow, an example of Synchronicity! When I replied to you about 3942, I had no idea about this thread of yours!
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608596.msg390402#msg390402
;D
Actually what you saw and "felt" was all real, in some other higher dimensional planet in this universe or another universe, either in past, present, or future.
There are 3 kinds of out of body experience, and in all of those you are having a real experience
-
"Normal" dreams Fuzzy, not that clear, no control over the dream, having some "super" powers.
-
Lucid dreams Crystal clear as if you are awake, may or may not have control over dream (depending on the level of your spiritual progress), have "super" powers like you described.
I've never heard of that perspective before. o
I've always had some degree of control when lucid... There is only a time or two that I can distinctly remember loosing my awareness and slipping back into a normal, fuzzy dream. All the other times the dreams have simply ended and I've woken up.
The reason is when you are having out of body experience (OOB) of any kind, your spirit body gets out of your physical body, while still attached to it (analogy is a flashlight, when you switch it on, light beam travels away from it while still being "attached" to it). When your spirit body gets out of the 3rd density physical body, it is a 6th density existence, the same existence as you have after death (your Higher Self - details in law of one). In 6th density existence you have a lot of advanced spiritual abilities naturally, like some of what you described. Now you know how the lifestyle of 6th density entities feels like!
Haha. ) I've always thought that the "lucid dreaming" state would feel exactly like full-dive MMORPGS, when we eventually get there. I'd expect more stability in said gaming experience though.
In this state you have no veil of forgetfulness and if you want you can travel to any higher dimension in any universe and you can also travel freely in time just like you travel in space. So you can go back to one of your past lives, or travel to future lives etc. You can also interact with other spirit bodies of various densities, for example you can meet your friends who are also having the OOB, or your deceased relatives, or higher density entities (like jibreel for example), or spirit guides in the astral planes etc. There is no limit. The more spiritually advanced you are, the more you can do and "see". You can even go to the Akashic library where record of everything is stored (lawh mahfouz - 8522), and watch your own 3D holographic movie about your past, present or future life for example.
I've read of a lot of what people have tried during lucid dreaming. Some of it is really awesome. I haven't been able to do a lot though. I seemed to have pretty good control of my body (I recognized I didn't have a physical form and I wasn't bound by gravity and the like). I also had the ability to "materialize" and manipulate aspects of my environment. But anything too large, complex, or something that lacked a solid image in my mind - I had difficulty creating. I was never able to accomplish it.
Curious... do you know how any of this fits into hypnosis? I've always wondered if someone with strong mental abilities would be able to be hypnotized at all.
- Astral projection You can do all of the above at will, without going to sleep, and you have complete control. Lucid dreaming is one step below this, and there are "masters" of astral projection also and you can learn how to perform it from their teachings. It is like experiencing what you will see after death, before actually dying. You will see a silver "cord" attaching you to your physical body during the astral projection, which will tell you you are still alive. The only difference from death is that after death you won't see the silver cord.
Please watch all the videos in my posts I referenced above for more details.
It is one of the best ways to discover the truth for yourself based on 4153. Please see my following thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607171.0
Peace
I really want to try astral projection now. D
Peace Comrox,
I would like to introduce you to Teal Swan, a living sufi/mystic, spiritually advanced being (also known as the "giggling guide", whose positive messages are in accordance with the law of one and a lot of them have resonated with me. She was born with a lot of advanced spiritual abilities and when I read her biography it brought tears to my eyes. She claims to be a higher dimensional being who has incarnated many times on Earth for the purpose of service to others and service to the Source.
Following is what she has to say about dreams and nightmares
https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=sMewKknfVJM
https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=0FbKnwDRKFQ
Teal on out of body experiences
https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=lVUy8u1DfKA
https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=wao7LqgSDzI
Teal on past lives and her interesting mind blowing perspective of karma wow
https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQdRTdA8FQU
https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=Un_ecCzKuxk
https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=tS2O-YHfj6I
Peace
Funny... I just watched a video of hers a few weeks ago and referenced it in another one of my threads recently... (This keeps happening between us and I'm not sure how I feel about it...)
peace
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