UNLAWFUL SEX?
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Imran bhai,
Man of Faith is actually right.
The "looking at women" is potentially harmful in the following wayIt ruins your mental discipline. Actually, it is not the looking itself, or what you see, that is bad for you. It is like a drug. Easily available, but very strong, and seems totally harmless. The damage happens within us. You get caught in a sweet feeling habit. You become slave to this habit. You will more and more loose the control of your own mind. And, your mind is the most potent tool. It can be a very dangerous weapon against yourself. Your mind can ruin your life if you let it rule you. The mind is sweet talking, seems logic and sensible, but it is a big Trickster. Just like your Rabb is closer to your than your body, the Devil is also terribly close. The Devil is no farther away than your own mind, through which you get tempted and talked into doing wasteful things that are of no benefit at all.
Another aspect of gazing too much at women is that you may become totally fixated at the body (which is THE thing you are looking at). You might even end up evaluating women based on body. Welcome to Earth. Body is flesh is matter. Matter doesn't exist. So, when you spend your time gazing on Flesh, you do two harms at the same time.
1 - You are wasting time that could have been spent on refining your relationship with your mind, but...
2 - Instead you are making your mind more addicted to Hot Flesh. It will become more and more difficult to handle your mind when you wire it with spicy images of Flesh all the time.So, what are you going to do when you're old and not interested in looking at Flesh anymore, but at the same time you have a rogue and uncontrolled mind acting like an impenetrable wall between you and Peace. Then you're toast!
In conclusion, Peace/Surrender/Letting Go is what we need. We reach it by training ourselves to NOT be slaves to our mind. Mind is an aspect of the body. Gazing at women will tease the mind and make it more difficult to attain peace.
The issue is not women, the issue is what we do. Do we do stuff that help to attain Surrender or do we do stuff that makes it more difficult to free ourselves from the material illusion we live (mind/body). In a state of surrender, a buzzing material surrounding is not a big deal to handle. But if we are all immersed in material perspectives, the materials world will totally dominate and rule us. What is this life about, if not to realize (know/experience) that we are not matter and flesh.
Cheers O0
Peace
I think this is a great point, and very true. I totaly think that even looking in a lustfull way is harmfullThe biggest issue i have with this, and many other things, is that they are simply distractions..
you get distracted by a nice looking woman, or anything else like sports.. children, it can be anything, then some other distraction, and so on and so forth, and you have lost your consiousness of yourself (your true self) and God. it may be a minute, an hour, god willing not lifetime, though it is so for the ones who are not concsious of God, and your snapped back to reality (as in the true reality of you being a soul, with an account, which is going to be recompensed for on the last day), and unless you continuously gaurd against that kind of thing, you can very easily (and i find myself doing this sometimes) loose consciousness of God for a time.
God understands we forget, and the quran has a few examples of 'satan caused me to forget my fish' (the boy traveling with moses) or 'if satan causes you to forget, than after the reminder do not sit with them' (in regards to either idle talk or people talking falsehood about God, the quran etc, i cant recall exactly).. but the problem is, you let such a thing happen, and your leaving the door open so to speak, and generaly what comes in the door is satan or one of his freinds, with some rediculous misguidance, or another distraction..
we must gaurd ourselfs against evil, at all times... (i think this situation is prehaps what could possibly have been 'exposed' in the garden, when adam and his wife fell and realised they were 'naked' though.. God knows and i do not, and that is certainly on of the multiple-meaning parts of the quran) i would be interested to hear others thoughts on that though. A great drawback for me often is my lack of understanding of arabic, which i only have a limited/basic knowledge of.
In regards to the original Topic, i think its very clear that god leaves no room for sex outside of marrige in His system. and this has always been the way, as far as i understand. prehaps i am mistaken, though however, i have chosen abstinence, god willing, untill i find a suitable partner, so i have not realy looked into marrige or sex, or related topics in the quran in depth, because i dont see myself being in a position of even meeting believing women face to face, god willing, at this stage of my life.
Peace.
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Imran bhai,
Man of Faith is actually right.
The "looking at women" is potentially harmful in the following wayIt ruins your mental discipline. Actually, it is not the looking itself, or what you see, that is bad for you. It is like a drug. Easily available, but very strong, and seems totally harmless. The damage happens within us. You get caught in a sweet feeling habit. You become slave to this habit. You will more and more loose the control of your own mind. And, your mind is the most potent tool. It can be a very dangerous weapon against yourself. Your mind can ruin your life if you let it rule you. The mind is sweet talking, seems logic and sensible, but it is a big Trickster. Just like your Rabb is closer to your than your body, the Devil is also terribly close. The Devil is no farther away than your own mind, through which you get tempted and talked into doing wasteful things that are of no benefit at all.
Another aspect of gazing too much at women is that you may become totally fixated at the body (which is THE thing you are looking at). You might even end up evaluating women based on body. Welcome to Earth. Body is flesh is matter. Matter doesn't exist. So, when you spend your time gazing on Flesh, you do two harms at the same time.
1 - You are wasting time that could have been spent on refining your relationship with your mind, but...
2 - Instead you are making your mind more addicted to Hot Flesh. It will become more and more difficult to handle your mind when you wire it with spicy images of Flesh all the time.So, what are you going to do when you're old and not interested in looking at Flesh anymore, but at the same time you have a rogue and uncontrolled mind acting like an impenetrable wall between you and Peace. Then you're toast!
In conclusion, Peace/Surrender/Letting Go is what we need. We reach it by training ourselves to NOT be slaves to our mind. Mind is an aspect of the body. Gazing at women will tease the mind and make it more difficult to attain peace.
The issue is not women, the issue is what we do. Do we do stuff that help to attain Surrender or do we do stuff that makes it more difficult to free ourselves from the material illusion we live (mind/body). In a state of surrender, a buzzing material surrounding is not a big deal to handle. But if we are all immersed in material perspectives, the materials world will totally dominate and rule us. What is this life about, if not to realize (know/experience) that we are not matter and flesh.
Cheers O0
yeh zulf brother I am also agree with you.. and also with man of faith..
but problem here is this... what we both are talking its quite hard to avoid looking at womens... or to avoid thinking about fantasies.. as soon mind think about something then it wanted to think...
rest of the things we think but we also think their negative sides so finally we able to make a decision not to rob steal or murder ,,but in the case of lust sex its quite hard to avoid the thoughts that automatically come in the mind... me and mof are agree on that.. and also agree on the point not to look at womes as quran also suggest us to lower our gaze.
but sometimes I think is it the work of satan who put these ideas in the mind .. and if it satan how come he puts the ideas in million people at same time , God is near to us becoz God is God , but satan how can he control our mind at the same time.. are there are lot of satans ..something we need to find out why we even think like that.. and when we start thinking 98 percent people failed to stop thinking ... we are apparently slave to our mind regarding this matter , rest of the things its easy to control apart from this...
I know its sound bit funny but I just share what I feel lolxx
peace
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and another question?
if we somehow make ourself understand not to think about it , at the first instant,
what actions we should take to finding a life partner as everybody need it at some certain point of life. without it its quite hard to spend life .. and we also need to talk and understand our partner before getting into marriage. so this fault is already in human body which is continue to disturb until one get married...obviously when we plan to get married we will look at women or finding a women for marriage we will look around ...lol what steps should we take to finding a mate according to quran..
these are just common questions may be I see the reviews of you guys and it will help me understand these life issues..
peace
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yeh zulf brother I am also agree with you.. and also with man of faith..
but problem here is this... what we both are talking its quite hard to avoid looking at womens... or to avoid thinking about fantasies.. as soon mind think about something then it wanted to think...
rest of the things we think but we also think their negative sides so finally we able to make a decision not to rob steal or murder ,,but in the case of lust sex its quite hard to avoid the thoughts that automatically come in the mind... me and mof are agree on that.. and also agree on the point not to look at womes as quran also suggest us to lower our gaze.
but sometimes I think is it the work of satan who put these ideas in the mind .. and if it satan how come he puts the ideas in million people at same time , God is near to us becoz God is God , but satan how can he control our mind at the same time.. are there are lot of satans ..something we need to find out why we even think like that.. and when we start thinking 98 percent people failed to stop thinking ... we are apparently slave to our mind regarding this matter , rest of the things its easy to control apart from this...
I know its sound bit funny but I just share what I feel lolxx
peace
"but problem here is this... what we both are talking its quite hard to avoid looking at womens... or to avoid thinking about fantasies.. as soon mind think about something then it wanted to think... "
'if a thought from satan comes to you, you shall seek refuge in God"
"Do you think you would be left to say 'We believe' and you will not be tested"
"On no soul do we place a burden greater than it can bear"
"steadfastly perseverse, you will gain mastery if you are true in faith"
Life is a test, it may be HARD to avoid looking at women (i presume you mean in a lustfull way, or else you might as well wear a blindfold in public at all times), and thinking about fantasies. but actualy i find its not THAT hard, you just have to persevere. satan will try again, and again, and sometimes again. but generaly he gives up if you dont. but give him the tiniest amount off lee-way and your making it harder for you. not specificaly you or anyone else, speaking from my own experience more than anything, may guide guide us all to the straight path and forgive us.
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but sometimes I think is it the work of satan who put these ideas in the mind .. and if it satan how come he puts the ideas in million people at same time , God is near to us becoz God is God , but satan how can he control our mind at the same time.. are there are lot of satans ..
I don't believe in a duality as in God vs Satan.
God is ... unity. God has no Boss Enemy as such. There is no such opponent.
I do believe in spiritual beings, of many different kinds. Some may be malicious.It is limiting and disempowering to blame stuff on Satan. We will only be able to advance if we take responsibility for our life.
Satan cannot control anything. We can be swayed by instinct and habit, when we let down the "guard"... when we forget. But nobody or nothing can control us unless we allow it, consciously or unconsciously. This is why we have to wake up to the realization that we are in charge. And I'm talking about in charge of the only things that matters, which is our awareness. Our awareness can be directed and trained! Our bodies may be chained, but our minds do not have to be chained. We can be free, if we decide to. Once we take action, nothing can stop us, except our own selves of course. We look for an external devil to watch out for, while we are totally blind to our own mind, which is no more than a computer or software, fused with the chemical machine called body. The mind and the chemicals of the body can be infinitely more dangerous than any fictitious Devil. Little do we know. The enemy is within.Peace bro
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and another question?
if we somehow make ourself understand not to think about it , at the first instant,
what actions we should take to finding a life partner as everybody need it at some certain point of life. without it its quite hard to spend life .. and we also need to talk and understand our partner before getting into marriage. so this fault is already in human body which is continue to disturb until one get married...obviously when we plan to get married we will look at women or finding a women for marriage we will look around ...lol what steps should we take to finding a mate according to quran..
these are just common questions may be I see the reviews of you guys and it will help me understand these life issues..
peace
Living in society, and noticing women, is ok. It is not like your mind will be polluted as soon as beauty hits your retina, no.
The issue is the habit of mass consuming women visually, and be addicted to it. Then you have lost control. Noticing, on one hand, and visually consuming by habit, on the other hand, are two very different things.
Also, this "issue" is NOT solved by burqas or similar. A burqa would be ideal to hide women from the sight of men, however, it is not the women that are the issue. Even if women disappear from sight, the mind of the men have not changed. This is all about our awareness and attention. It is our mind that needs training. If women disappear from sight, the minds of men will latch onto other things. The problem remains, unchanged. Nothing of real value was solved by applying burqa on women. So, we must be able to tell apart cause from symptom.
But of course, this is also a philosophical subject that can be discussed forever without solution. One might argue that if the issue is the mind of men, then women should be able to go naked, since all that men need to do is to learn not to get distracted.
Well, balance is the key, as usual. And we live under certain conditions. Our biology is what it is, and it was designed like that, so we need to keep the actual issue in mind, while applying balance to how we address an issue. No burqa, not naked. -
good points zulf,,
this topic is such a controversial topic on all of the aspects specially ,, when u do crime you always have fear inside , but this crime or sin I dnt know what type or category it have , it give u a state call intoxication , in which u want to to immerse urself ,
usually it all about mind , but that's what I am saying mind wanted it to happen.. there is a barrier that simply if we change our thinking but as soon we change after a period of time it come again in mind , its like a chasing thing .. its inside us. I remember a dialoge of fanna movie,,lolhero said, I m the fragrance that reside inside the breath , how can you stop breathing yourself and get rid of me,,,
same until we are young and single this thing will never let us alone it will chase us.. this topic getting romantic now lol ,, but its good if we talk on general life sometimes apart from quran topics..
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Yet, it's all very much related!
if you guys know Urdu there is an scandal of a Pakistani scholar of sunni sect and model qandeel Baloch..
its was so much funny lol
he even quoted a hadith according to him , he claim if you see a beautiful women and say her pray for me because God make you beautiful and he must listen your prayer .. lol I cant stop myself laughing see how they quote hadith for covering their lies...
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if you guys know Urdu there is an scandal of a Pakistani scholar of sunni sect and model qandeel Baloch..
its was so much funny lol
he even quoted a hadith according to him , he claim if you see a beautiful women and say her pray for me because God make you beautiful and he must listen your prayer .. lol I cant stop myself laughing see how they quote hadith for covering their lies...
rotfl
You must post this link.
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Peace,
I am seriously concerned with you sharing Scandal and immorality. Lets remember what the quran says about this
2416 And when you heard it you should have said "It was not right for us to speak of this. Glory be to You, this is a great lie."
2417 God warns you not to repeat something similar to this ever, if you are believers.
2418 And God clarifies for you the revelations; and God is Knower, Wise.
2419 As for those who enjoy that immorality spreads among those who have believed, they will have a painful retribution in the world and the Hereafter. And God knows while you do not know.while this may not be the exact same circumstances, i think its still relevant and you should consider whether what you are doing is righteous or not.
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Peace,
I am seriously concerned with you sharing Scandal and immorality. Lets remember what the quran says about this
2416 And when you heard it you should have said "It was not right for us to speak of this. Glory be to You, this is a great lie."
2417 God warns you not to repeat something similar to this ever, if you are believers.
2418 And God clarifies for you the revelations; and God is Knower, Wise.
2419 As for those who enjoy that immorality spreads among those who have believed, they will have a painful retribution in the world and the Hereafter. And God knows while you do not know.while this may not be the exact same circumstances, i think its still relevant and you should consider whether what you are doing is righteous or not.
The definition of righteousness doesn't mention sex or sexual acts, from what I remember.
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The definition of righteousness doesn't mention sex or sexual acts, from what I remember.
Peace,
It does however mention believing in God, and obeying his commandments, and advice.
Part of which is what i have highlighted in my previous post.Its up to you how you interpret it. Personaly when God says that he is testing us as to who is best in their deeds, and when god says to listen to what he has revealed, and follow the best of it, I dont see gossiping about immorality, sharing such things, and having a good old laugh at people transgressing against Gods laws, as following the best. that is not righteousness.
Again, it is only my intention to remind, prehaps the reminder may benefit someone
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Peace,
It does however mention believing in God, and obeying his commandments, and advice.
Part of which is what i have highlighted above.
Again, it is only my intention to remind, prehaps the reminder may benefit someoneSo what's your understanding? Marriage must be a legally recognized union for two people to engage in sex or sexual acts?
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Also, this "issue" is NOT solved by burqas or similar. A burqa would be ideal to hide women from the sight of men, however, it is not the women that are the issue. Even if women disappear from sight, the mind of the men have not changed. This is all about our awareness and attention. It is our mind that needs training. If women disappear from sight, the minds of men will latch onto other things. The problem remains, unchanged. Nothing of real value was solved by applying burqa on women. So, we must be able to tell apart cause from symptom.
100% agree brother. Well said.
I know some would love to blame sexual desire on a woman's (or man's) choice of clothing, but clothing restrictions - in particular Islamic ones - don't protect women at all (see http//www.womenundersiegeproject.org/blog/entry/the-myth-of-how-the-hijab-protects-women-against-sexual-assault).
Both men and women need to learn how to abstain from looking at each other as nothing more than sexual objects. It's disgusting. We are both told to lower our gazes/reduce our vision. I believe 971 also paints an equal picture between men and the women "And the believing males and the believing females, they are allies to one another." We shouldn't simply blame clothes. We shouldn't simply see bodies. We should see people, not sexual objects. Blaming women's clothes is an excuse for men to not follow a commandment that is also addressed to them.
As someone in the article's comments mentioned, young men also need to learn how to have healthy interactions with women. How are you supposed to understand that people are more than their bodies before you speak with them? I've read so many stories of Muslim men and women who marry, and they're so naive. Neither of them understand how to communicate or deal with problems in a relationship, because they've never interacted with the opposite gender before. Worse yet, some men seem to think it's okay to discipline their wife or take a second wife instead of actually solving their problems with their first wife. It's ridiculous. As someone who studies communication, I want to brickwall
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So what's your understanding? Marriage must be a legally recognized union for two people to engage in sex or sexual acts?
In my (rather limited) understanding of marriage in Gods system, i believe that it is a vow to god that 2 people undertake to abide by his law and to be equitable and just and to support each other. I believe that people must be married (under Gods law) to have sex. although again, as i mentioned earlier, i have not researched the subject in depth. To me though, in my understanding this view fits with the Quran, and with common sense.
In not sure if you are implying legaly as in by the law of whatever country you are in, in your question, but i believe in Gods law, and any laws that contradict this, are transgressing the balance God has ordered us to uphold
Peace
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Peace,
In my (rather limited) understanding of marriage in Gods system, i believe that it is a vow to god that 2 people undertake to abide by his law and to be equitable and just and to support each other. I believe that people must be married (under Gods law) to have sex. although again, as i mentioned earlier, i have not researched the subject in depth. To me though, in my understanding this view fits with the Quran, and with common sense.
In not sure if you are implying legaly as in by the law of whatever country you are in, in your question, but i believe in Gods law, and any laws that contradict this, are transgressing the balance God has ordered us to uphold
Peace
I am implying legally as in a marriage recognized by the government, yes. So what do you think about two people who are cohabiting together (with or without kids)?
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100% agree brother. Well said.
I know some would love to blame sexual desire on a woman's (or man's) choice of clothing, but clothing restrictions - in particular Islamic ones - don't protect women at all (see http//www.womenundersiegeproject.org/blog/entry/the-myth-of-how-the-hijab-protects-women-against-sexual-assault).
Both men and women need to learn how to abstain from looking at each other as nothing more than sexual objects. It's disgusting. We are both told to lower our gazes/reduce our vision. Blaming women's clothes is an excuse for men to not follow a commandment that is also addressed to them.
As someone in the article's comments mentioned, young men also need to learn how to have healthy interactions with women. How are you supposed to understand that people are more than their bodies before you speak with them? I've read so many stories of Muslim men and women who marry, and they're so naive. Neither of them understand how to communicate or deal with problems in a relationship, because they've never interacted with the opposite gender before. Worse yet, some men seem to think it's okay to discipline their wife or take a second wife instead of actually solving their problems with their first wife. It's ridiculous. As someone who studies communication, I want to brickwall
Peace, i also, agree wholeheartedly.
That men can blame woman for their own sin, is in my opinion, and i also believe, in Gods system, a serious sin.
4112 And whoever does a mistake or sin, then blames it on an innocent person; he has incurred falsehood and a clear sin.
The problem is not women, women are certainly a blessing, and i in fact generaly prefer the company of women to men. although, sadly i have not realy had much oppurtunity to assosciate with many righteous men, who im sure, i would equaly enjoy the company of.
While i generaly disagree with most of the "apostle Paul's" teachings, there is one verse(s) i appreciate, and i believe to be true. and points to the root problem, corrupted Lust (not nessesserily in a sexual sense, as some people interpret, simple a very strong desire in my opinion)
James 113-15
When tempted, no one should say, God is tempting me. For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death
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Peace,
I am implying legally as in a marriage recognized by the government, yes. So what do you think about two people who are cohabiting together (with or without kids)?
I believe, if they have taken on the responsibilities of marriage, under Gods laws, that they are free to have sex, i would encourage people to get married under Gods law, and do so, as it says in the Quran.
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Peace, i also, agree wholeheartedly.
That men can blame woman for their own sin, is in my opinion, and i also believe, in Gods system, a serious sin.
4112 And whoever does a mistake or sin, then blames it on an innocent person; he has incurred falsehood and a clear sin.
The problem is not women, women are certainly a blessing, and i in fact generaly prefer the company of women to men. although, sadly i have not realy had much oppurtunity to assosciate with many righteous men, who im sure, i would equaly enjoy the company of.
While i generaly disagree with most of the "apostle Paul's" teachings, there is one verse(s) i appreciate, and i believe to be true. and points to the root problem, corrupted Lust (not nessesserily in a sexual sense, as some people interpret, simple a very strong desire in my opinion)
James 113-15
When tempted, no one should say, ?God is tempting me.? For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death
Good verses you shared. peace yay
I hope you are able to meet righteous men to befriend soon, insha'allah. )
I believe, if they have taken on the responsibilities of marriage, under Gods laws, that they are free to have sex, i would encourage people to get married under Gods law, and do so, as it says in the Quran.
Understood. Thanks for clarifying. peace